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Author: allocatorx Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 744482  
Subject: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investments Date: 6/3/2001 10:46 PM
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Over the weekend, I started doing some thinking about prescriptions. It occurred to me that prior to these wonderful creations, many people would have had early-onset non-treatable health problems. Now many, if not most, of these people will live normal life spans.

Additionally, many people living longer due to modern medicine will spend small fortunes (either directly or through health plans) on prescriptions for years. That is why I think pharmaceutical companies will be great investments for years to come. I am thinking of increasing my holdings in Merck and possibly buying some Pfizer, since pharmaceuticals is a key sector in which our portfolio is underweighted. I will also look at the Vanguard Healthcare Fund.

IMHO, our politicians have it backwards. The drug companies are offering millions of people a new lease on life. They should be praised, not villified. In fact, one might say that drug companies operate in the best interests of the general public-which is more than I can say for some of our self-righteous politicians.

allocatorx



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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40732 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/3/2001 11:07 PM
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IMHO, our politicians have it backwards. The drug companies are offering millions of people a new lease on life. They should be praised, not villified. In fact, one might say that drug companies operate in the best interests of the general public-which is more than I can say for some of our self-righteous politicians.

I agree with you. The politicians don't give a rat's a$$ about the best interests of the general public. Their interest is votes and the wealth, power and influence those votes translate into. The general difference between our two brands of politicians is that brand D sets unwitting people against unpopular people and unpopular industries in order to make the people more dependent on the brand D politicians and brand R defends against this in order to make the unpopular people and industries more dependent on the brand R politicians.

1HF

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Author: allocatorx Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40734 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/3/2001 11:24 PM
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"I agree with you. The politicians don't give a rat's a$$ about the best interests of the general public. Their interest is votes and the wealth, power and influence those votes translate into. The general difference between our two brands of politicians is that brand D sets unwitting people against unpopular people and unpopular industries in order to make the people more dependent on the brand D politicians and brand R defends against this in order to make the unpopular people and industries more dependent on the brand R politicians."

Excellent point, 1HF. If the general public were to take a step back and think about who REALLY operates in its best interests, it might be really surprised (Hint: Politicians are NOT one of the answers).

The "Attack of the Killer Politicians" has been experienced by the following industries at some time or other:

Oil
Tobacco
Pharmaceuticals
Technology
Fast Food
Utilities
Insurance Companies
Railroads
Banks
Paper Companies

Not surprisingly, virtually every stock I own falls into one of the above categories. I guess I must be doing something wrong, too. Perhaps I should not be looking for "recession proof" companies, but rather "politician proof" companies.<grin>

Does anyone have any suggestions?

allocatorx



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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40738 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/4/2001 2:17 AM
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The drug companies are offering millions of people a new lease on life. They should be praised, not vilified.

Never happen.

All the rabble have that is worth taking is their votes.

The rich and the productive have all sorts of stuff worth taking.

Therefore when a man makes millions by extending the lives of his countrymen, at $1 per person/year, demand that he "give something back to the community" - meaning you the politician - and the rabble will back you. THIS is the path to political power.

Never, ever, permit anyone to think "extending lives at $1 per person per year is ALREADY giving to the community more than any thousand politicians in history!"

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Author: Marxtacy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40739 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/4/2001 2:30 AM
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I know this isn't the "pharmaceutical board", but I'm expecting Barr Laboratories to be a great investment with a 5-10 year horizon. However, my money isn't where my mouth is quite yet. If you are interested, here is a thread I started regarding my take on Barr Labs:

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=15091773

------marxtacy---------

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40744 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/4/2001 7:09 AM
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<<Additionally, many people living longer due to modern medicine will spend small fortunes (either directly or through health plans) on prescriptions for years. That is why I think pharmaceutical companies will be great investments for years to come. I am thinking of increasing my holdings in Merck and possibly buying some Pfizer, since pharmaceuticals is a key sector in which our portfolio is underweighted. I will also look at the Vanguard Healthcare Fund.
>>


Any particular reasons why you favor Merck and Pfizer? I'd consider adding a couple of drug companies to my DRIP list, and I'd be glad to hear recommendations on why particular companies might be good choices from anyone with a bright idea.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40745 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/4/2001 7:17 AM
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<<The "Attack of the Killer Politicians" has been experienced by the following industries at some time or other:

Oil
Tobacco
Pharmaceuticals
Technology
Fast Food
Utilities
Insurance Companies
Railroads
Banks
Paper Companies
>>


Let's call this what it is ---hate campaigns launched by the Dems. It seems they hate Texas a lot lately, too --- heh, heh!


I suppose the Repubs do this too, although it does seem like the Dems have it down to a science. Perhaps it's just my bias.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: jobobb One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40755 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/4/2001 9:32 AM
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SP wrote

Let's call this what it is ---hate campaigns launched by the Dems. It seems they hate Texas a lot lately, too --- heh, heh!

I suppose the Repubs do this too, although it does seem like the Dems have it down to a science. Perhaps it's just my bias.



Repubs don't hate Texas, they hate California.

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Author: speedsurfer One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40766 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/4/2001 10:27 AM
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Admittedly drug companies are reasonable investments. As a healthcare worker, I have ethical problems with them though. I know the business intimately, working with and having social relationships with many insiders. The amount of money spent on research is miniscule compared to the amount on marketing. Recently, the disgraceful practice of direct marketing to patients has reared its ugly head. I dont really appreaciate these ads during dinner. I think what is more problematic, is the fact that doctors, whether they admit it or not, are influenced tremendously by physician marketing and patient marketing. So what, you might ask? Consider the fact that all these "wonderful medications" are really only the ones that make money. No effort is made to produce medicines that may help people if they dont make money. Patents and royalties are where its at, and all those costs get passed on to poor frail Aunt Millie who can barely afford chicken soup. So the next time you see a 1,000,000 ad campaign on T.V. for a drug, ask yourself how much less that drug what have cost without all the marketing, letting doctors make prescription choices (a seemilingly novel concept in this day and age). By the way, I think there are plenty of good investments out there besides tobacco and drugs.

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40799 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/4/2001 12:39 PM
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Recently, the disgraceful practice of direct marketing to patients has reared its ugly head. I dont really appreaciate these ads during dinner.

My family has a simple solution to ads during dinner.

We eat dinner.

We don't watch TV during dinner, or listen to the radio, or read the paper or the mail. We don't answer the phone (Please leave a message). If someone comes to the door, we either invite them in for dinner, or tell them to leave their literature and we will review it in December when we make our charitable and political contributions. We also don't use the internet or Quicken/Intuit (ads in my programs -- Grrr!) then either.

This works for us. Your Milage May Vary.

Vickifool -- actually, billboards are the most effective way to advertise to me.

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Author: ogrecat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40823 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/4/2001 2:33 PM
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The amount of money spent on research is miniscule compared to the amount on marketing. Recently, the disgraceful practice of direct marketing to patients has reared its ugly head. I dont really appreaciate these ads during dinner. I think what is more problematic, is the fact that doctors, whether they admit it or not, are influenced tremendously by physician marketing and patient marketing. So what, you might ask? Consider the fact that all these "wonderful medications" are really only the ones that make money.

The drugs that make the most money are the ones that don't cure. How much money is made fixing a broken leg or stopping an infection? High cholesterol, now there's a disease: no symptoms and you get to take liver-damaging drugs for 30 years. High blood pressure is a close second. Then there is depression; is everybody depressed? Is more money made on pills for depression or in trying to find causes? Did you know Prozac is indicated for people with hypochondria?

Best of all, the side effects from one drug can lead to the need to take a second drug, continue loop as needed.

What happens to profits if a substantial number of people decide they'd rather die at 80 than take $50 worth of drugs a day for 30 years so they can 'live' to be 90?



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Author: HamletsMill Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40835 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/4/2001 3:14 PM
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"The rich and the productive have all sorts of stuff worth taking.

Therefore when a man makes millions by extending the lives of his countrymen, at $1 per person/year, demand that he "give something back to the community" - meaning you the politician - and the rabble will back you. THIS is the path to political power."


Once you get it, the way to maintain political power is to persuade others that rich and productive are always synonyms…

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Author: stvfox Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40859 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/4/2001 5:05 PM
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BTW, pharmaceutical companies are good investments--they tend to go up if the market is going down, and they go up even more if the market is going up. Stocks that I follow in that area include LLY, AMGN, MRK, PFE, SGP and AHP. Investing in pharms allows one to be on both sides of the fence as retirement happens. Stvfox

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Author: golfwaymore Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40915 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/5/2001 12:17 AM
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Any particular reasons why you favor Merck and Pfizer? I'd consider adding a couple of drug companies to my DRIP list, and I'd be glad to hear recommendations on why particular companies might be good choices from anyone with a bright idea.

FWIW, J&J is my largest pharma holding.

I'm more comfortable with them because of their broad market approach. Though they are most aggressively expanding their pharmaceuticals product lines, they are well based in century old consumer products as well.

In my mind, this is good to have in the event a few of the pipeline potentials dont pan out.

Golfwaymore,
Who held J&J in one of his ports, before TMF said it was cool





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Author: golfwaymore Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40922 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/5/2001 12:52 AM
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Patents and royalties are where its at, and all those costs get passed on to poor frail Aunt Millie who can barely afford chicken soup

So the next time you see a 1,000,000 ad campaign on T.V. for a drug, ask yourself how much less that drug what have cost without all the marketing, letting doctors make prescription choices (a seemilingly novel concept in this day and age). By the way, I think there are plenty of good investments out there besides tobacco and drugs.


Right; and by that logic, if Winston would just pull out of NASCAR, think of how much cheaper they could sell cigarettes to Aunt Millie. Not to mention they'd sell fewer of them.

With all respect - it's called capitalism. Until someone comes along with a better mouse trap, companies will sell at a price that the market will bear.

Golfwaymore


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Author: stvfox Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40934 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/5/2001 2:48 AM
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To clear the confusion, pharmaceutical drugs and tobacco should not be seen as similar investments--it has been proven that tobacco increases cancer risk. Conversly, pharmaceutical drugs save and improve lives and decrease hospitalizations, ie they save money ultimately. You need not worry about Aunt Millie's finances if the US government ever decently provides prescription drugs which we pay for through taxes/social security, ie it is strange that Medicare does not cover medicine which is half of health care now. Stvfox

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Author: golfwaymore Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 40965 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/5/2001 10:11 AM
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To clear the confusion, pharmaceutical drugs and tobacco should not be seen as similar investments--it has been proven that tobacco increases cancer risk.

Seems to me they are more like "cake and coffee", "peas and carrots", etc...

Golfwaymore,
Long MO and JNJ

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Author: speedsurfer One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41207 of 744482
Subject: Re: Musings-Pharmaceutical Companies As Investme Date: 6/7/2001 2:30 PM
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"So the next time you see a 1,000,000 ad campaign on T.V. for a drug, ask yourself how much less that drug what
have cost without all the marketing, letting doctors make prescription choices (a seemilingly novel concept in this
day and age). By the way, I think there are plenty of good investments out there besides tobacco and drugs.


Right; and by that logic, if Winston would just pull out of NASCAR, think of how much cheaper they could sell cigarettes to
Aunt Millie. Not to mention they'd sell fewer of them.

With all respect - it's called capitalism. Until someone comes along with a better mouse trap, companies will sell at a price that
the market will bear."

With all due respect, there is a slight difference between Nascar and physicians prescribing medications. Physicians learn the risks/benefits and detailed pharmacology of medications. Phsycians are licensed to prescribe medications. When companies market to patients they try to usurp the normal process by leveraging the patient against the physician. Do you want your doctor to prescribe the best medicine for you or the fancy, shiny one you saw on T.V.?

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