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Author: TMFThump Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Home Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 18103  
Subject: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/7/2013 3:30 PM
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duplicate post from SA:Ford
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More than a few comments have posted on this board about the excessive size and weight of the current Mustang. I believe Rob used the term bloated. I rather like it's retro styling, and don't share that feeling, but it does seem ready for being refreshed.

The Wall Street Cheat Sheet is reporting that the 2014 Mustang is headed for diet and apparently one of the engines is to be a 2.3L 4-banger rated for roughly the same 300HP of my 2008 V8 Mustang GT.

Reporting from the Geneva Auto Show, the automotive news outlet says that a 300-horsepower 2.3-liter version of the current 252 hp 2.0-liter four-cylinder found in the Ford Focus ST will be offered in the 2014 Mustang, but only in European market cars.

Full text of the article is available here:

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/ford-plans-changes-for-mu...

Doug
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Author: TMFBreakerRob Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool Supernova Phoenix 1
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Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/7/2013 4:27 PM
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More than a few comments have posted on this board about the excessive size and weight of the current Mustang. I believe Rob used the term bloated. I rather like it's retro styling, and don't share that feeling, but it does seem ready for being refreshed. -- Doug

Yep. Dat b me!

I'd like to see the Mustang around the size of an A4. Keep all the styling cues you like, but dump the high cowl and hood. Some decent rear visibility wouldn't hurt either. When driving one, I feel like I'm sitting in a tub and trying to peer over the top. Definitely not a sports car experience. (Comparing it to my old Corvette and my son's 240SX.... or even my old 1980 Mustang).

None of the corrective actions are going to happen while it's on the current platform. They're stuck with the high front end so they can package those engines up there and the high cowl is considered a platform element.

Rob

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Author: KennyO Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17448 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/7/2013 5:35 PM
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+1 on "bloated" and "sitting in a tub" and "rear visibility"
But what would I know? I've only driven it. If I'd designed it or had to sell it I might feel differently.

KennyO

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Author: TMFBreakerRob Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool Supernova Phoenix 1
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Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/7/2013 6:12 PM
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+1 on "bloated" and "sitting in a tub" and "rear visibility"
But what would I know? I've only driven it. If I'd designed it or had to sell it I might feel differently.
-- KennyO

Thanks. :)

Part of my job was to represent the customer and that included visibility, comfort and overall accommodation of people in the car. As you might expect, that frequently put me at odds with the Studio folks as well as management.

I didn't always win (in fact, I frequently lost!), but I did my best. What the Studio wants over-rides such details as visibility and comfort these days.... In the past, there was often a shift too far in the other direction, leading to bland blobs like the Ford Five Hundred.

It's difficult to achieve a wonderful balance.

Rob

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Author: KennyO Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17450 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/7/2013 6:17 PM
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Imagine what cars would be like if Steve Jobs had worked in this industry instead! Of course, he'd have tried to make gasoline proprietary as well. Most swords have two edges, don't they?

KennyO

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17451 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/7/2013 8:42 PM
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Part of my job was to represent the customer and that included visibility, comfort and overall accommodation of people in the car. As you might expect, that frequently put me at odds with the Studio folks as well as management.

I didn't always win (in fact, I frequently lost!), but I did my best. What the Studio wants over-rides such details as visibility and comfort these days.... In the past, there was often a shift too far in the other direction, leading to bland blobs like the Ford Five Hundred.

It's difficult to achieve a wonderful balance.

Rob
__________________

Almost impossible, which is how we end up with Camels that have two humps :)

They were begging me to take a Mustang in Florida as a rental. Despite the fact that I absolutely hate that blue color, we were golfing. The rear seat is beyond ridiculous, and the car isn't that desirable.

Thank you for the Ford Five Hundred description "Bland Blobs". I feel the same way about the new version, except it doesn't look like the old one. I always wonder where the heck all the room went when I get in one.

Thanks for thinking of the everyday guy Rob.

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Author: TMFBreakerRob Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool Supernova Phoenix 1
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Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/7/2013 10:56 PM
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Thank you for the Ford Five Hundred description "Bland Blobs". I feel the same way about the new version, except it doesn't look like the old one. I always wonder where the heck all the room went when I get in one. -- HMALETTER

Yeah, that's a real mystery with the current Taurus (formerly known as the Five Hundred). There's a new one in the works, coming out either late next year or early 2015... based on the current Fusion. Hopefully it'll have an inside that corresponds to the outside size.

Rob

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Author: TMFTwitty Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17453 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 11:06 AM
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The Wall Street Cheat Sheet is reporting that the 2014 Mustang is headed for diet and apparently one of the engines is to be a 2.3L 4-banger rated for roughly the same 300HP of my 2008 V8 Mustang GT.

The Top Gear guys were ranting that the Mustang is finally coming to the UK, but that will be the only engine offered. That's impressive HP from a four-banger, but it's the torque that snaps your head. I wonder if it will have the same punch when you wind it up.

Richard

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Author: Philipo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17454 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 1:47 PM
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"Imagine what cars would be like if Steve Jobs had worked in this industry instead! Of course, he'd have tried to make gasoline proprietary as well. Most swords have two edges, don't they?"

Yup. Does make you wonder though how you'd have to dock the car and not be able to change the battery without a crowbar. And assuming then I could afford one, given Apple margin requirements, I wouldn't want to be told "you're driving (holding) it wrong" when 1st year flaws exposed (not that Ford completely avoids that arrogance at times).
Yup...Jobs was good at what he did, including receiving credit for others work and creating a near bulletproof brand association, but that doesn't prove him any good at everything he didn't try to do (like make affordable cars in N. America).

As Mustang customer I don't think a Steve Jobs would be sympathetic to any of my pony car - desires especially not cost/performance or options. Mustang is a compromise in many areas and we Mustang customers accept that for worse and better. I hope Ford doesn't miss the message as they almost did back then the Probe almost became the Mustang platform...errr...was that another Jack Nasser era plan? <gag>

TGIF! Safe driving all (snowbound here in Boston area)
B

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Author: Philipo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17455 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 1:58 PM
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"That's impressive HP from a four-banger, but it's the torque that snaps your head."

Anyone else remember the mid 80's fox chassis SVO tubo 4-cyl Mustang?
It had no low end torque though it got respectable et's when wound up. I imagine if they dual eco boost TC this it they might overcome some of that and 300hp is already 125hp over the SVO from the 80's.

It would still be called a one-lung'er Mustang in my midlife raised on V8 circles....gear-head snobbery never ends until the proof is on the street/track ;-)
B

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Author: TMFThump Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Home Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17456 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 1:59 PM
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Philipo

I hope Ford doesn't miss the message as they almost did back then the Probe almost became the Mustang platform

That pales in comparison to what they actually did to the Mustang in the late 70's. Remember this one:

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&safe=active&biw=1...

Doug

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Author: Philipo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17457 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 2:08 PM
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"Remember this one"

Too well (yikes).
I owned 3 69's and still own a low mileage 89 coup I ordered - considered an 09 but got distracted...it's not too late though for used...too many projects ;-)
B

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Author: TMFThump Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Home Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17458 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 2:12 PM
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You're making me crazy, Philipo. I've got to wait another month or so to take mine out of storage. Here's a peek:

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&safe=active&biw=1...

Doug

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Author: Philipo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17459 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 4:55 PM
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Nice!
Having just snowblowed & shoveled wet snow for 2+ hours I too will welcome spring (and so will my back)
;-)
B

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Author: RHinCT Big gold star, 5000 posts Ticker Guide SC1 Red Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17460 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 6:32 PM
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Years ago I read a story in one of the car magazines. It seems one of the Japanese car makers had brought out a 4x4 that seemed to have great specs but a guy who bought one was terribly disappointed with performance when blasting around off-road. He took the car to a top off-road performance shop and asked them to see what they could do give it some performance. A few weeks later they called the owner in for a test drive, and gave him just one instruction: keep the revs up over some number (5k rpm?). He took off with a blast and when he returned he was ecstatic! What did they do to make it perform like that??? The answer was - they changed nothing at all. It just had to be driven differently than one with a brute of a V8.

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Author: RHinCT Big gold star, 5000 posts Ticker Guide SC1 Red Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17461 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 6:33 PM
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There should be a monument somewhere to the invention of the snowblower.

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Author: TMFTwitty Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17462 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 7:30 PM
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It had no low end torque though it got respectable et's when wound up.

I hate having to keep an engine tached to keep it on the cam running around the streets, so low end torque is important to me. But I'm a dinosaur, my prefs don't work in today's market.

Richard

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Author: TMFBreakerRob Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool Supernova Phoenix 1
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Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 9:57 PM
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There should be a monument somewhere to the invention of the snowblower. -- RH

There is!

We have one in Charlotte.... to celebrate our eventual collective conclusion that the right choice was to move to a better climate. ;)

Rob

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Author: TMFBreakerRob Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool Supernova Phoenix 1
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Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 9:59 PM
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I hate having to keep an engine tached to keep it on the cam running around the streets, so low end torque is important to me. But I'm a dinosaur, my prefs don't work in today's market. -- Richard

Sure they do.

You just need to buy a Tesla. Maximum torque starting once you exceed zero RPM. Pocket change..... for some.... ;)

Rob

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Author: GrandpaRalph Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17465 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/8/2013 10:38 PM
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Anyone else remember the mid 80's fox chassis SVO tubo 4-cyl Mustang?

I remember the half Mustang/half T-bird turbo coupe mules running around Dearborn, turning a lot of heads.

Ralph

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Author: KennyO Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17466 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/9/2013 11:29 AM
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Yup...Jobs was good at what he did, including receiving credit for others work and creating a near bulletproof brand association...

Just like other famous tinkerers such as Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Edwin Land, et al. One doesn't enter the Pantheon solely on one's own merits. It would've made for a most interesting Phase Three of the industrial revolution, though, don't you think?

KennyO

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Author: TMFTwitty Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17467 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/9/2013 11:41 AM
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You just need to buy a Tesla. Maximum torque starting once you exceed zero RPM. Pocket change..... for some.... ;)

Yeah, with the sound system tied to the accelerator playing Cobra engine sounds :)

Richard

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Author: TMFBreakerRob Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool Supernova Phoenix 1
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Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/9/2013 4:45 PM
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Yeah, with the sound system tied to the accelerator playing Cobra engine sounds :) -- Richard

LOL.... I was expecting a response like that! :)

Yeah, that's definitely a drawback. Just a subdued rumble as you go down Main Street is a pleasure in itself. <sigh.... thinking of my college Corvette days...>

Rob

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Author: possumkiller One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17469 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/10/2013 12:19 PM
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Thats a beauty Doug.Hope you guys in the N.E. get shoveled out.We have dodged lots of storms here in Ohio this year,doesnt happen to often.Rob you didnt need to move that far south,hope all is well though.

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Author: Philipo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17470 of 18103
Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/10/2013 1:02 PM
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"Just like other famous tinkerers such as Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Edwin Land, et al. One doesn't enter the Pantheon solely on one's own merits."

Im not sure Land's peers had to endure people proposed, with perhaps assumed chance of success, imagine what if Edward Land developed <insert any very different product/market> like comes up so often with Jobs. You're right - many of those guys too were idolized and brands presumed to be about more than their actual contributions. Wrt Jobs again it's an understatement that he did what he did quite well but he didn't try to do everything, nor without an enormous supporting staff of implementers, and that's probably a pretty important element to his successes. I have little trouble forgetting the things that were declared good enough that weren't nor that users were assumed to know less about what they wanted that Jobs knew (that he was sometimes right doesn't make it less arrogant).

"It would've made for a most interesting Phase Three of the industrial revolution, though, don't you think?:

No, I think that Jobs would have great difficulty winning markets across the board unless we accept "it's just a hobby" excuse when they fail to win or break even. As a product developer & patent owner I have due respect but not worship (early era Woz though was a bit worshiped by me when younger I admit, and Jay Minor of Atari & Amiga design fame, and...well to get back ontopic I could start naming Ford design stars like Najjar, Ask, Shinoda, et al but this is already straying a bit OT from the Stang weight starter).
Fun topic KennyO - cheers to ya!
B

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Author: TMFBreakerRob Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool Supernova Phoenix 1
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Subject: Re: Mustang to Shed Weight Date: 3/10/2013 2:36 PM
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Rob you didnt need to move that far south,hope all is well though. -- PK

Dunno..... you've got to move pretty far south to avoid the snow. The mountains of NW North Carolina have some snow and both western Virginia and West Virginia are even worse.

Besides..... my daughter and her hubby are in Charlotte, as does our great little grandson (who just mastered crawling this week). Living in a nice warm climate is just a side benefit.

Rob

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