No. of Recommendations: 71
 While I have no love for the credit card industry, it is not the credit card industries "fault" that I charged up well over $100k on easy term credit cards. No, that is my fault... and I have sustained an epiphany of behavioral change. 

 There are a few  folks who have a ton of cc debt because of an unforseen illness, loss of job, or some horrific life altering event. I have some sympathy for those folks. Some, not a lot. Even they should have had an emergency fund of some type.

 No, we are not "victims" of the cruel cc industry. We are victims of our own greed and inability to postpone pleasure at the expense of our future finances.

 I have not always thought this. I remember when my Chase CC rate was jacked to 30% simply because they felt I had too much debt. Usury? Yeah, I think so.... Should this practive be eliminated? Yes. No question.

 But the underlying problem is not the CC companies folks. Look in the mirror. If you by things on credit... IT IS YOUR FAULT! If you need to charge it... you don't need it.

 Earth shattering concept,  one I now live by.

  It wasn't always this way for me. I happily ran up card after card.... I never met a guitar, rv, motorcyle, etc... that I didn't like.  I did not understand the difference between "want" and "need".  I do now.

  There is no magic fairy dust involved in money management. You must set up a realistic budget and live by it. You can not spend more than you make.  You must save and invest. No one will do it for you. Stop being the victim... be the victor.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
I, and I think most people with any sense, would agree 100%. 

BUT....

that DOESN'T mean we should let the cc companies off the hook. (Not that you are saying we should.)

Creatures that lure in and prey on the weak are loathsome creatures indeed.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I agree with you wholeheartedly.  You must be at least 18 to get a card and that's old enough to be responsible for your financial actions.  Delayed gratification seems to be in short supply these days.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 17
I agree with you wholeheartedly.  You must be at least 18 to get a card and that's old enough to be responsible for your financial actions.  Delayed gratification seems to be in short supply these days.

You think so? The credit card companies are so desperate for new business that they're sending cards to kids in high school who aren't even of age, and depending on the parents to pay the bills.

And they're signing up college kids who don't have a job. As far as I'm concerned, a company that gives a loan to someone without an income deserves what they get: nothing.

Responsibility for paying the bills is definitely that of the consumer. But the credit card companies, like the mortgage companies that gave mortgages to people without a verified income, need to start doing some of the work.

There's a whole set of mortgages known as NINJA: No Income, No Job, No Assets. No, people shouldn't have taken them. But as far as I'm concerned, the mortgage companies shouldn't have offered them, either.

Nancy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
  Nancy, I agree with you. I have no love for the CC companies. However, while I am aware that there is a marketing push towards young students, it would be illegal for the CC company to simply send a minor a card and expect the parent to pay. So, I honestly do not believe that any CC company is sending cards to minors unless their parents have agreed.

"As far as I'm concerned, a company that gives a loan to someone without an income deserves what they get: nothing."  

... Well, this is a specious argument. Sure, a company that loans money to a poor risk is not very bright and will suffer as a result... but, if someone borrows money... They should pay it back.


 My Monday morning tirade is in no way, a sign that I feel CC companies should get away with many of the practices they now employ.  Au' contrair... I am incensed at the predatory practices such as "universal default" or "fixed-well not really fixed rates".  No... my essay is a call to arms. Stop the bleeding! Amputate the extremity!

 We have a become a nation of victims. Everything is someone elses fault. Someone... somewhere owes me money because "I am a victim". It's time for tough love folks. Take back the sweetness of hard work and saving for a rainy day.


    Become the Victor!
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
However, while I am aware that there is a marketing push towards young students, it would be illegal for the CC company to simply send a minor a card and expect the parent to pay. So, I honestly do not believe that any CC company is sending cards to minors unless their parents have agreed.

But it does happen. The companies look all wide-eyed and innocent, and claim that the kid's name ended up on the mailing list, and they didn't realize, etc., and anyway, there's some small print (written in microscopic sized disappearing ink) that says you have to be 18. But they'll still go after the parents. And since they threaten to destroy the kid's credit record forever, the parents often cough up.

I don't know if you're old enough to remember, but back when Visa was starting out, they mass-mailed cards to millions of people. No application, no control, no nothing. Just stick the card in an envelope and send it out. Cards were being stolen out of mailboxes, criminals were charging up a storm, people who had no idea that these things called credit cards even existed were being charged for other people's actions. Congress had to pass a law to force Visa to send out applications first.

Yes, I believe that people should pay their debts. But, as Miss Manners says about one-night stands, by the nature of the event, you are dealing with people you are not well-acquainted with, and you cannot force them to follow rules they might not acknowledge.

A lot of responsibility lies with the credit card companies, for sending cards to people who have no money, nor any means of earning any. They need to stop the one-night stands, and concentrate on some steady dates.

Nancy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
if only! if only *anything* were that simple.

why does it have to be "their fault or our fault"? this is a false dichotomy - there's no big scorebook in the sky that marks whose fault things are.

victim, predator, winner, loser - these are all attempts to oversimplify a million different, complex stories.

there's plenty of "fault" to spread around. i try to focus on "just do it" - get out of the mess. period. one foot in front of the other.

BklynBorn
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
"But it does happen. The companies look all wide-eyed and innocent, and claim that the kid's name ended up on the mailing list, and they didn't realize, etc., and anyway, there's some small print (written in microscopic sized disappearing ink) that says you have to be 18. But they'll still go after the parents. And since they threaten to destroy the kid's credit record forever, the parents often cough up."

This made me think of years ago when my older daughter got her first CC offer in the mail..at age 3. This day of infamy resides in her baby book.

Dragon
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
This made me think of years ago when my older daughter got her first CC offer in the mail..at age 3. This day of infamy resides in her baby book.
Dragon

-----

Our cat, whose name is Jane, regularly gets pre-approved CC apps.

They come addressed to 'Jane [mylastname]'.







ten
-tempted to....... nah, I won't
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
But it does happen. The companies look all wide-eyed and innocent, and claim that the kid's name ended up on the mailing list, and they didn't realize, etc., and anyway, there's some small print (written in microscopic sized disappearing ink) that says you have to be 18. But they'll still go after the parents.
Well - it's illegal. they can try to go after someone else like the parents, but if they illegally sign up a minor and the parents don't co-sign or sign under POA, it's really the CC company's problem.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
Well - it's illegal. they can try to go after someone else like the parents, but if they illegally sign up a minor and the parents don't co-sign or sign under POA, it's really the CC company's problem

Absolutely. That's why I think they should stop handing them out to any and everyone, including people without an income. If the CC companies set better standards for themselves in handing out cards, they wouldn't have been complaining that so many people were declaring bankruptcy.

Yes, (before people start yelling) people should be more careful how they spend, they should pay their bills, build up an emergency fund, and so on. Customers should know better than to accept more cards when they can't pay the ones they already have. All I'm saying is that the credit card industry bears some responsibility for handing out cards to people who don't have an income, or who have already proven that they can't handle money. Look at the way people who have been through bankruptcy are immediately offered credit cards. Is that sound policy? True, the person can't declare bankruptcy again for a number of years, but that doesn't mean that they're going to be better at handling their money.

Nancy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
All I'm saying is that the credit card industry bears some responsibility for handing out cards to people who don't have an income, or who have already proven that they can't handle money

It all comes down to an individual basis--the person who swipes the card or punches the numbers into a website.  They are the ones who spend the money and they are the ones who are responsible for handling it.

NOW, if the credit card companies were looking for some sort of assistance from the government to stay afloat, I'd agree with you... they would be mostly responsible for their inappropriate lending that lead them into that state.

But the reality is that they are making their money even when they loan out to people who are probably not the best candidates, so it's up to individuals to be educated before they take the leaps that get them squashed.

College students are a very specific case, and I do not see any problem with them being given credit lines... when I was in college I had an income that was a small fraction of the amount of loans that I was actively taking out year after year, yet I was still given a credit card, which I prompt carried a balance on (but was never late or defaulted on) for several years.  It was a tool that I was able to use to get me through that time period.

I also doubt that anyone's Cat or 3 year old would actually be granted a credit card if the application was filled out completely and honestly... they all ask for DOB and I think anything starting w/ 20xx will probably send up a red flag :^)

I don't blame Burger King for making me fat, I wouldn't blame the hardware store for selling rope to someone who hung themselves and I won't blame the credit card companies for issuing credit to anyone, because the money doesn't spend itself.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 7
NOW, if the credit card companies were looking for some sort of assistance from the government to stay afloat, I'd agree with you... they would be mostly responsible for their inappropriate lending that lead them into that state.

It was the credit card companies that demanded that Congress write a new bankruptcy law because of all the "deadbeats" who didn't pay their debts. I'd certainly consider that "some sort of assistance from the government." A whole new law, just for them, because they'd handed out so many cards to people who couldn't handle money.

I also doubt that anyone's Cat or 3 year old would actually be granted a credit card if the application was filled out completely and honestly... they all ask for DOB and I think anything starting w/ 20xx will probably send up a red flag :^)

I gather you've never heard of parents who take out credit cards using their kids' social security numbers and dob, thus wrecking the child's credit history before the kid can even read. And yes, people have gotten credit cards in their dog's name, mostly for the sake of proving how stupid the credit card companies are.

Amazing how many people think of the credit card companies as beleaguered innocents.

Nancy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
{I gather you've never heard of parents who take out credit cards using their kids' social security numbers and dob, thus wrecking the child's credit history before the kid can even read. And yes, people have gotten credit cards in their dog's name, mostly for the sake of proving how stupid the credit card companies are.}


So you blame the credit card companies when people commit fraud? 
You blame credit card companies when people spend more than they can pay back?
What does it take for you accept that people should be responsible for their actions?



c
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
So you blame the credit card companies when people commit fraud? 
You blame credit card companies when people spend more than they can pay back?
What does it take for you accept that people should be responsible for their actions?

It's too bad you've developed such a nasty, spiteful, stupid habit of selecting some quotes and ignoring others.

I have said, over and over and over, in this thread and the other two that are running at the same time, that people should pay their bills. That people were responsible for what they owe. You elected to deliberately ignore those comments just so you could say something small and spiteful.

So, what would it take to make you accept that credit card companies should behave in an ethical manner, or don't you think that American companies should have ethics?

Nancy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Has any one looked at DaveRamsey.com?
If you have the guts to change your spending habits, on the left side is Financial Peace University. Try it you will like it
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I believe if my memory is correct, the Bank of America is spending one hundred million on high school and college students and the card companies pay the colleges 50K-100K to due business on the campus.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I believe if my memory is correct, the Bank of America is spending one hundred million on high school and college students and the card companies pay the colleges 50K-100K to due business on the campus.

mrmolar119,

We very much like having you here, and you'll obviously be a good contributor, but you may want to slow down just a trifle and get a feel for the board.

Nancy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I am also taking a money course from Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University and in 3 weeks, 40 couples have recieved card applications with a total credit line of 4.2 million. Whenever I get an application, I throw the contents away and send a copy of the course I am taking.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
Whenever I get an application, I throw the contents away

I hope you shred the application first.

AJ
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
I always pay off my balance each month to avoid extra charges. My "beef" with the cc companies, or gripes, because there are several are these:

1. They constantly send letters which cahange the terms of the original contract such that you pay more, they get more.

2. They will place a "hickey" on ones credit report at the drop of a hat. I have had to undo many of these, due to their error in posting.

3. Hardly a day goes by without another new cc offer, either via e=mail or snail mail, promising all sorts of goodies that are later rescinded by the letters mentioned above.

4. They are pure corporate greed. My daughter had paid way beyond the minimum payments to Bank of America over a 6 month period, yet was penalized due to 2 late payments, which she was not responsible for. Either the U.S. Mail service was, and/or BAC was sloppy in recording her payment. To make matters worse, BAC "scolded her with a letter that raised her interest rate on her remaining balance from 7.9% to 33.9%! When I called to confirm this, I was literally yelled at by the agent in their credit department that "If I (or she) thought there was anyway we were going to avoid paying 33.9%, we were deluded". She is single, 26 years old and just beginning her career as a stylist. The rudeness was bad enough, but the interest rate at 33.9 % puts some bookies to shame! I would have said loan shark, but I didn't want to give loan sharks a bad name!

5. Once the new bankruptcy act passed, these credit card issuers are having a field day with their clients. These are mostly banks, and I know for a fact that they just love late payments, or overdrafts, because what the "small print" says they can do to their victims!
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
-----If you by things on credit... IT IS YOUR FAULT! If you need to charge it... you don't need it.-----

I agree with a lot of what you say, but would suggest a rephrasing of this part. I think there's a difference between using a credit card to buy things from convenience and using the card to defer payment. I use my credit card all the time because I hate carrying much more than $10. If somebody mugs me (as has happened......) the cash is gone. If they steal my card, I can call and cancel it. I pay my bill in full every month like clockwork AND accrue points toward gasoline at a rate that currently gets me 1 full tank of free gas every month.


Even so, the cc companies are monsters. Sure, they have rules and regulations in fine print that you agree too, but some of the statements in that fine print are amazing. My favorite in one card offer some time ago said that the company could, at any time and for any reason THEY chose, refuse a payment. They could then charge interest and penalties for your not paying, even though you'd sent them what you thought was payment........I declined the "opportunity" to enroll.
sandytravis
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
4. They are pure corporate greed. My daughter had paid way beyond the minimum payments to Bank of America over a 6 month period, yet was penalized due to 2 late payments, which she was not responsible for. Either the U.S. Mail service was, and/or BAC was sloppy in recording her payment. To make matters worse, BAC "scolded her with a letter that raised her interest rate on her remaining balance from 7.9% to 33.9%! When I called to confirm this, I was literally yelled at by the agent in their credit department that "If I (or she) thought there was anyway we were going to avoid paying 33.9%, we were deluded". She is single, 26 years old and just beginning her career as a stylist. The rudeness was bad enough, but the interest rate at 33.9 % puts some bookies to shame! I would have said loan shark, but I didn't want to give loan sharks a bad name!

The rude agent is unacceptable, but your daughter needs to accept responsibility for the late payments. Backing her up that it isn't her fault isn't helping her. If she doesn't mail the payment in time for US Mail to deliver it, it is her responsibility.

Two late payments in 6 months is going to trigger default rates. No credit card company is your friend. They feed on those who are careless or make mistakes (or those they can trick into making mistakes.) Credit card are a tool that can be useful or very dangerous. At times it does feel like an agreement with the devil, but they are very useful.

After the first late payment, she should have changed how she was handling payments and carefully tracked payments. Electronic payments eliminate much of the problem. It is possible to track payments online and the posting date is supplied. It is still necessary to verify that payments did post, but mail delays are eliminated.

5. Once the new bankruptcy act passed, these credit card issuers are having a field day with their clients. These are mostly banks, and I know for a fact that they just love late payments, or overdrafts, because what the "small print" says they can do to their victims!

The new bankruptcy laws aren't responsible for the change in treatment. Credit card companies will suck every penny they can from customers. It is their business plan. Universal default existed prior to the change. Late fees and overlimit fees are increasing.

Debra
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 9
Oh my...

No one thinks that the CC companies are innocents. Certainly, they should be held to the same ethical standards as any other business.

There are no dogs, pets, children, etc.. with legitimate credit cards. That is ridiculous and is an example of folks embellishing stories they have heard. Yes, someones child or cat may have inadvertently received an invitation to apply for a card. There is no such thing as simply getting an unsolicited useable/viable credit card in the mail any more.

You might get an invitation to apply or a pre-approval acceptance letter, but you sure aren't getting a valid credit card.

Banks and financial institutions are a business. They offer a service. This service sells instant gratification. They are very good at it. The American public has been convinced over the last 40 or so years that credit is normal. Our grandparents sure didn't think so. This has fueled a nation of financial morons, many in a cycle of debt that they will never escape. Paycheck to paycheck.... charging and paying minimums only...

.... But, it is not the CC or the banks fault folks. They didn't swipe the card. They didn't charge that vintage Stratocaster guitar. They didn't finance a $60k car, Harley, RV, Jet Ski, etc. I did.

Now, I woke up. I went to Ramseys FPU. I don't even have a credit card any more. I do have a MC Debit. My wife and I are as one in this. But here is the difference. Even here at the Fools, some are blaming someone else for their own financial mess. As long as they continue to believe that it is the CC company or bank that is the cause of their financial woe, they are doomed to failure. It is like the crying tantrum of a spoiled child. Me me me me me.... No, I looked in the mirror and saw my own financial worst enemy staring back.

If you are here on this board, it is almost certain that you have fallen prey to your own inability to control your spending. You have come here to read others stories and perhaps find help in digging out. (Either that, or you simply may just enjoy the macabre slow drive by of the financial wrecks here)

I can't help you. You must help you. However, I can certainly steer you in the right direction.

1. Admit to yourself that you have a problem with spending.
2. Accept responsiblity for your prior and future finances.
3. Gather all of your information.
4. Set up a budget based on actual numbers.
5. Establish a modest emergency fund
6. Destroy your credit cards
7. Sell vehicles, toys, rv's, etc
8. Find additional income... part time, overtime, whatever.
9. Use the "snowball" approach to retiring debt.
10. Vow to live forever below your means.

Becoming part of a larger group such as the "Fools" or the "Dave Ramsey Zealots" is very helpful. I belong to both!
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
A-men to that Wonderful, clear-eyed perfectly articulated discussion of credit cards. THANK YOU, well said!!
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
As a graduate of FPU several years ago, let me tell you it works.

We still have a credit card (1) which I use to charge gas & travel on. We pay it off in full every month.

No other bills except the house but at 4.5% with under 50k left who would be in a hurry to pay it off. My ROTH's are over the mtge.
Our 401K's are saying retirement will be very good, No ALPO here, thanks.

Learning to say "NO"asn't very tough, except on cars. Our last used car we wrote out a check at the dealership, they said it wasn't very common, but it sure felt good.

Hang in there, there is life, after DEBT.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 10
If you are here on this board, it is almost certain that you have fallen prey to your own inability to control your spending. You have come here to read others stories and perhaps find help in digging out. (Either that, or you simply may just enjoy the macabre slow drive by of the financial wrecks here)

I can't help you.


The unadulterated snobbishness of this post alarms me.

I gather you don't read this board, you just come in to tell us we're stupid.

There are many, many posters here who have never had credit card debt. I am one of them.

I also don't get vicarious thrills from what you describe as financial wrecks.

I come here to actually help people. It's a pity you won't do the same thing. We watch people dig their way out, we offer suggestions and support, we cheer them on as they conquer their urge to spend, we celebrate when they knock off another credit card or finally break into financial security.

Unlike you, we don't talk down to them.

See you around the campus.

Nancy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
It goes along with the politically correct mentality of not talking responsiblity for one's actions. The present generation is self indulgent; if they want to behave that way fine, but don't make me pay for it.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
It goes along with the politically correct mentality of not talking responsiblity for one's actions. The present generation is self indulgent; if they want to behave that way fine, but don't make me pay for it.



I know I'm new here, but it seems to me that the people on this board ARE taking responsibility for their actions. That's why they are here. They may have been self-indulgent in the past, but they are making an effort to learn how to get out of debt and stay out. That deserves applause imho.

AM
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 7
The unadulterated snobbishness of this post alarms me.

I gather you don't read this board, you just come in to tell us we're stupid.

There are many, many posters here who have never had credit card debt. I am one of them.

I also don't get vicarious thrills from what you describe as financial wrecks.

I come here to actually help people. It's a pity you won't do the same thing. We watch people dig their way out, we offer suggestions and support, we cheer them on as they conquer their urge to spend, we celebrate when they knock off another credit card or finally break into financial security.

Unlike you, we don't talk down to them.

See you around the campus.

Nancy


Wow.. where did that come from? You really are quite good at taking things out of context. Nancy, you apparently have some issues of which I am unaware. I do have debt... I am not speaking down to anyone. I am speaking from the depths of my own humbling experiences. Judging from the tone of your post, you have never been humbled by anything. The comment about "drive by" viewers was a joke. You do have a sense of humor? BTW... I am thrilled you have no debt. Though, quite frankly, this is an anonymous internet board. Anyone can be anything they so choose. (I suspect most of us posting detailed debt numbers (like myself) are pretty much on the level. I have been reading this forum for several years. I use to post here under a different screen name about five or six years ago.

I said.. "I can't help you. You must help you" You truncated my statement, twisting it to somehow support your viewpoint. I did not say
"I can't help you" in the manner you suggest. The pettiness of your post is unsettling, to say the least.

I don't need your pity Nancy. Though if you really wanted, you could send me your money ;). I honestly don't know if you are just having a bad day or what. You really don't know me or anything about me. I can guarantee that I am the farthest thing from a snob you can imagine. My wife and I live in a small rural community and are both professionals. Our lives revolve around our church and children. We made some very stupid financial moves, including my reckless spending. We have been climbing out for about the last three years... only posting about it the last nine months or so.

So.. Again, I'm not sure what nerve I struck. It certainly was unintentional. Rereading my postings, I see nothing from my perspective that indicates a "self perceived superiority". No, I'm simply pointing out that the mess I have created is of my own doing. It wasn't the evil cc company. I spent it. I owe it. I'm paying it back.


I offer my most humble apology to anyone who thinks I was speaking down to them. Since I myself am in the valley, I cerainly don't feel that way and had no intention of it coming off that way.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Great post! You have it nailed.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
I agree, but I think it goes both ways. These companies knowingly lent money to people with bad credit, and then cry when they don't get it back.

If I have a friend who has not paid people back in the past, then give him money when he says "oh but this time I really will pay back!" whose fault is it when I lose that money? It's his, but it's also mine, since I knew what would happen but I went and lent him money anyway.

That's my biggest complaint about banks wanting bailouts or bankruptcy reform - because by running to the government to help them out of messes they made, they are doing exactly what they are complaining about other people doing to them.

I'm just glad I read the Millionaire Next Door when I was 26 or so and changed my life around. I wish I read it earlier, or that my parents had taught me to manage money.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
I am from halfway round the world. What is happening in the US is no different from what is happening here in South-East Asia. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "It Is The System, Stupid!"

If one were to play the CashFlow 101 game developed by Robert Kiyosaki of Rich Dad Poor Dad fame (please don't misunderstand. I am not promoting his book or his game), we can compress 30 years of working life into 3 hours. This allows us to see things in a different perspective. Major events in our life jump up at us in the game and we get to understand that we are running in a Rat Race that has many traps waiting for us.

Traps like:

We must own our own house.
We must have a car
We must have annual holidays
Our kids must have the best education money can buy.
We can depend on the government to take care of us in our old age.
We can destroy our body with all kinds of abuse and we will still be all right. Our health-care system is the best in the world.

Books like the Millionaire Next Door have some very sensible solutions and methods for us to follow.

All the traps are either self-created or created by the oligarchies which consists of the politicians, military, big business and financiers. (Some may even include the religious establishments, although I would not suggest that they are involved.)

Three tools are used:

1. Ignorance: Keep the people ignorant about financial management and health. Distract the people through entertainment, sports and political circuses. Keep them busy so that they have no time to think. Many of the major life-threatening diseases can be prevented or cured through proper diet and lifestyle. But this will not be profitable for the big pharmaceutical companies. So this is not taught in school.

2. Greed: Use greed to tempt the people to spend beyond their means so that they fall into the debt trap. Simple tricks that are used are fashion, beauty products, pandering to the ego, gambling, drugs, etc.

3. Fear: Use fear to frighten the people into spending unnecessary money on insurance, medical checkups, unnecessary medical procedures. Create fear of an imaginary enemy to persuade the people to give up their freedom to the rulers.

Basically, "THEY" are out to get us. The ultimate objective is to steal the people's time (used in working for money). In ancient times, we call it slavery. Nowadays, they have a better system - keep the people stupid.

Sadly, the ones who suffer the most are the poor and the uneducated. I am happy to note that most of the people who are on the Motley Fool boards are trying their best to dig themselves out of their financial problems and I applaud them.

I was born dirt-poor. That was my karma. But poverty has been a very good teacher and taskmaster. I am blessed to have been a good student.

Most of our financial problems in life can be explained through these 3 elements. I invite you to give it a try.

Regards,

py
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
I think you touch on a basic theme here in the catacombs of The Motley Fool, personal responsibility, which should remain a mantra for anyone seeking any sort of independence.

That said, I would like to add a touch of social reality in that we are shaped by culture--blitzed by advertising, bludgeoned by our leaders (remember the shopping for freedom response to 9/11?) and reinforced by peers generally warping our perception. It is super human to step out of this influence but as you point out totally emancipating when we do.

I would not chide folks for their moral weakness or ignorance when the norm is greed from the highest social echelons (which might include GW Bush and his cronies) to folks on the flip side of the political strata (let's say Michael Moore).

If we want to really change behavior like wide spread greed, we have to begin to work on the culture...yeah, no small feat. But where to begin but here?
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 2
<<I would not chide folks for their moral weakness or ignorance when the norm is greed from the highest social echelons (which might include GW Bush and his cronies) to folks on the flip side of the political strata (let's say Michael Moore).
>>


Oh come on now! We have the compassionate society/government not one that would encourage moral weakness and ignorance!


The simple fact of life is that if people buy into foolish values and live their lives by them, they may have their lives wounded as a result.e going to try to sell you junk, including junk political policies. If you buy them, you may be harmed.


Sorry, people don't get off the hook of personal responsibility because they are stupid and foolish.




Seattle Pioneer
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
3. Hardly a day goes by without another new cc offer, either via e=mail or snail mail, promising all sorts of goodies that are later rescinded by the letters mentioned above.

You can stop these offers by calling the toll-free number in the fine print to opt out of credit card offers. I did this a couple years ago (actually, twice), but I rarely get any offers anymore. I think the only offers I've received are connected with an organization that I have belonged to.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
How many of you can honestly say that you have read the account and security agreement that you receive once a year from the credit card companies?
That's not many - not many! Shame on you for not reading this pile of legaleze crap! Let me sum it up for you. "You", "your", "yours" and "accountholder" have little, if any say in what "we", the creditor want to do to change our side of the contract! We will charge you exuberant fees for anything we can think of and you can't do anything about it because you are a powerless consumer and "we" the creditor carry a bigger briefcase full of bribe money (oh, I mean Lobby money) to Congress - so there!

As consumers, we could do something about it but it would take an impossible amount of cooperation for everyone to participate in some type of protest.

Razz
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 7
As consumers, we could do something about it but it would take an impossible amount of cooperation for everyone to participate in some type of protest.

As a consumer, you can choose not to use a credit card. Then you won't be bothered by any of the fees or the rules.

AJ
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 5
<< Let me sum it up for you. "You", "your", "yours" and "accountholder" have little, if any say in what "we", the creditor want to do to change our side of the contract! We will charge you exuberant fees for anything we can think of and you can't do anything about it because you are a powerless consumer and "we" the creditor carry a bigger briefcase full of bribe money (oh, I mean Lobby money) to Congress - so there!
>>


Let me sum it up for you. Pay your bills on time each month and we'll offer your a wide variety of remarkable services for free.


That's really about all I need to know.



Seattle Pioneer
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 1
As consumers, we could do something about it but it would take an impossible amount of cooperation for everyone to participate in some type of protest.

I'm getting as much free money from the credit card companies as I can - I have no reason to protest unless it'll increase that.

rad
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 3
We will charge you exuberant fees for anything we can think of

Exuberant rates.

Hmmmm.

I'm sure you meant exorbitant, but I must say I like the sound of exuberant rates bouncing all over the place.

Nancy
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
This is not strictly true in every case.

If the child has received goods and/or services via use of the credit card, the cc company may be able to obtain restitution for the value of whatever was received.

The parents may well be held responsible to reimburse the cc co.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I think you touch on a basic theme here in the catacombs of The Motley Fool, personal responsibility, which should remain a mantra for anyone seeking any sort of independence.

That said, I would like to add a touch of social reality in that we are shaped by culture--blitzed by advertising, bludgeoned by our leaders (remember the shopping for freedom response to 9/11?) and reinforced by peers generally warping our perception. It is super human to step out of this influence but as you point out totally emancipating when we do.

I would not chide folks for their moral weakness or ignorance when the norm is greed from the highest social echelons (which might include GW Bush and his cronies) to folks on the flip side of the political strata (let's say Michael Moore).

If we want to really change behavior like wide spread greed, we have to begin to work on the culture...yeah, no small feat. But where to begin but here?


******************************

Envy and greed are part of the human condition. Did not start with cc companies or the United States. Do you know the story of the Buddha?
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
RAD,

What do you mean when you say you are getting free money from the credit card companies?
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 7
What do you mean when you say you are getting free money from the credit card companies?


She gets a rebate on her expenses as do I.

Some of us use our rewards credit cards to charge every expense, and then we collect the rebate on the other side. This only works if you pay off your balance in full every month so that you're not paying any interest, and if you're only spending on things that were already planned and in your budget.

When we built this house, we got huge cash rebates because I charged all the expenses that weren't at lumber yards to get the 1% cash back. Lumber yards around here give a 2% cash discount if you pay within 10 days of receiving the bills, so those I just paid.

I know that rad used her credit cards to do things like pay college tuition, and I intend to do the same thing for the twins in 2 years. In fact, I've started increasing credit lines now and have added 2 new cards so that we can spread the charges around and will not max out and then lose out on the rebates.

This can be a great tool if you are disciplined and don't carry a balance.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Oh, the 1% cash back. I never even notice that because I average less than $2000/year in credit card charges. I will admit that in my 25 years of credit card history, I have paid less than $2 in interest.

I do however, have a problem with credit card companies wanting to charge a late fee of $35 on a balance that is $35 (maybe I am in the minority on that feeling).
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
Oh, the 1% cash back.

No, it's usually 1.5 or 5% back. The last college bill 2gifts mentioned was somewhere in the middle because it was a 5% rebate and something around a 2% fee for using the card. I don't remember what the earlier ones were. I also have reimbursed business travel that adds to the rebate. Everything goes on credit cards that possibly can.

I also have a chunk o change that I got from a balance transfer - no fee, 0% for a year that moves among savings accounts to get the best interest rate.

I do however, have a problem with credit card companies wanting to charge a late fee of $35 on a balance that is $35 (maybe I am in the minority on that feeling).

I don't pay late so it's irrelevant what the late fee is.

rad
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I have an emigrantdirect savings account and use their CC, they give you a 1.4% cash back on all your purchases every 6 months(your savings balance has to be at a minimum of $10K or you only get .5%) They deposit it into your savings account. Last year I received $488. back, so I charge everything on the card and pay the balance in full every month.

Basically Free money.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I know that rad used her credit cards to do things like pay college tuition, and I intend to do the same thing for the twins in 2 years. In fact, I've started increasing credit lines now and have added 2 new cards so that we can spread the charges around and will not max out and then lose out on the rebates.

2gifts, you should be aware that many colleges charge a fee to pay tuition on a credit card (because it is done by an outside vendor). I have attended several colleges and grad schools over the past 10 years and only one ever let me pay by credit card without a fee. Even that one college has stopped the practice because they were losing so much money on it.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0

I know that rad used her credit cards to do things like pay college tuition, and I intend to do the same thing for the twins in 2 years. In fact, I've started increasing credit lines now and have added 2 new cards so that we can spread the charges around and will not max out and then lose out on the rebates.


Gosh, what a great idea! I'm going to try to do that too!

Thanks, 2gifts! and rad! :)

Andrea
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
2gifts, you should be aware that many colleges charge a fee to pay tuition on a credit card (because it is done by an outside vendor). I have attended several colleges and grad schools over the past 10 years and only one ever let me pay by credit card without a fee. Even that one college has stopped the practice because they were losing so much money on it.


This is a good point. At this time, none of the colleges the kids are looking at are charging a fee. I do know that this can change from time to time, so this will be something that I check as I'm paying each bill.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
I don't pay late so it's irrelevant what the late fee is.

But if by chance your payment was late due to the mail being extra slow (If you were to actually use the mail) not at fault of your own - so what you are saying is you wouldn't mind being charged the $35 fee?

I don't pay late fees either but it happens to people all the time. The point being that the fees are extreme.

Discover and Visa have never offered me anything more than 1% back.

I never have a balance because I pay in full when or before the bill comes. Also, I have started using online payments to the card companies so I know when they receive my payment.

Razz
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
But if by chance your payment was late due to the mail being extra slow (If you were to actually use the mail) not at fault of your own - so what you are saying is you wouldn't mind being charged the $35 fee?


The check that I wrote for DH's business credit card once got lost in the mail, and I only noticed it when I went online into the account for something. I called immediately to see what had happened, and to ask them to not charge a late fee or interest. Since this was the only time we were ever late, the credit card company was very willing to waive both fees, so if your payment is late due to it taking a long time in the mail, and this doesn't happen often which would say that you're probably mailing it late, I'd bet your credit card company would also credit the late fee.

And, of course, you could do what I did which was finally to be motivated enough to start paying my credit card bills electronically instead of counting on the mail to get my check there on time.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 0
While I am all for personal accountability, the credit card industry should not get a pass because of it. Credit card purveyors show all the restraint and business ethics of a crack dealer on a playground. The companies encourage the use of credit coupled with a variety of fees and interest rate schedules that are designed to drag the most income from those least able to afford it. They target this market because of it’s size and vulnerability.

Yes, you should not have run up that debt but you were, in fact, aided by an industry that pushes you to do this.
Print the post Back To Top
No. of Recommendations: 4
While I am all for personal accountability, the credit card industry should not get a pass because of it. Credit card purveyors show all the restraint and business ethics of a crack dealer on a playground. The companies encourage the use of credit coupled with a variety of fees and interest rate schedules that are designed to drag the most income from those least able to afford it. They target this market because of it’s size and vulnerability.

Kind of like how governments encourage gambling through the lottery.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

foolazis
Print the post Back To Top
Advertisement