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Author: Pituophis Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 90257  
Subject: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/14/2006 8:14 PM
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I've been pressing a deadline and haven't even had time to read the boards lately so when I got on today I was 213 posts behind. No time to catch up now, but just wanted to comment on the Cheney shooting thingy. Btw, that happened about 10 miles from my house and Whittington was taken to a hospital about 3 miles from my house. Saturday afternoon before the shooting had been reported on the news we saw all kinds of planes and helicopters flying around - I even commented to my wife that the terrorist must be attacking, but I guess they were just up there protecting our VP. But who's gonna protect us from him, huh?

One of the first things that really bothered me about the shooting incident was that a lot of the commentators were using the word "peppered" to describe what happened to Whittington. ABC News had it scrolling across the bottom of the screen Monday morning..."Cheney 'peppers' hunting buddy..." As someone who grew up bird hunting and who hunted most of my life (though I don't anymore), I have often used the word "peppered" and have in fact been "peppered" on many occassions. Being peppered is being hit by bird shot from a long distance. It might sting a little, but rarely penetrates the skin. Whittington WAS NOT "peppered." Whittington was SHOT in the face and chest by Cheney at close range. To get that kind of penetration with #8 bird shot, I'd say he would have to have been closer than 20 feet. So Cheney aimed his shotgun at a guys face 20 feet away and pulled the trigger. Can't get much more careless than that. In all my decades as a hunter, I never witnessed an accident with a shotgun as serious as that. The speculation is that Cheney was almost certainly drunk - he is well known to like a snort now and then while blasting quail. That explains why they avoided law enforcemnt for 24 hours - all the local LE had to go on was their word that they weren't drinking...and we all know how much Cheney's WORD is worth...oh, and they didn't even have the proper license to quail hunt in Texas anyway, but the game warden let them off with a warning.

Then this afternoon I hear that the Whitehouse has decided to deal with the incident with "HUMOR". And to make it even funnier, at the same time that they're cracking jokes Whittington is having a heart attack because one of those bird shot that "peppered" him got a little close to his heart. You can't get much funnier than that, huh? Well, not unless he dies, that would really be scream. I bet Whittington's friends and family are really getting a good laugh. Can you say negligent homicide?
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Author: Seapickle Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38034 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/14/2006 8:34 PM
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The speculation is that Cheney was almost certainly drunk - he is well known to like a snort now and then while blasting quail. That explains why they avoided law enforcemnt for 24 hours - all the local LE had to go on was their word that they weren't drinking...and we all know how much Cheney's WORD is worth...

Ooooooo... You have to be under surveillance after that one. Sorry I could only give you 1 rec.

SP

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Author: beecho Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38040 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/14/2006 9:03 PM
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As usual, you give a really thoghtful comment.

I too once hunted birds but have not for 40 years. (I never really had the heart to point at many..)

Yes, to penetrate the thorasic wall and embed in the heart with #8 shot you would have to be at close range. For an experienced hunter? (Killer?) Unthinkable. The shootee had to be right in front of him.

Laugh? I can be really cynical and think they are the kind. Maybe so but it is hard for me to even think that. But, on the other hand?

Tom

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Author: goofyinMD Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38045 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/14/2006 10:04 PM
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But you have to realize where he is. I think Cheney could get away with murder in Texas even if the thing was on tape.

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Author: KodiakBear Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38051 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/15/2006 5:28 AM
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>> That explains why they avoided law enforcemnt for 24 hours <<

How is it legal to wait 24-hour to report a shooting?
The Secret Service agents are officers of the law.
Is it not malfeasance for them to not report this event in a timely fashion.
Is it not obstruction of justice for them to cover up for a drunk Cheney?

KB

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Author: nospam4me Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38057 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/15/2006 6:47 AM
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The speculation is that Cheney was almost certainly drunk

Exact same speculation was raised when "Wrong Turn Teddy" drove off the bridge. The delay necessary to get the blood alcohol content down is about 8 hours, unless one is really pickled -- and Teddy disappeared for 8 hours or so.

cassandra

Pretty sure that Cheney didn't knock up the 78YO male lawyer and (because of his religion) have to find a means other than abortion to hide the inconvenient potential bundle of joy. Guy was too old to have a baby.

/**/

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Author: TraderJim3 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38096 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/15/2006 11:48 AM
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cassandra

Pretty sure that Cheney didn't knock up the 78YO male lawyer and (because of his religion) have to find a means other than abortion to hide the inconvenient potential bundle of joy. Guy was too old to have a baby.

====================================

I coulda said it any better, Bravo!

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Author: mishedlo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38106 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/15/2006 12:41 PM
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Pit, I sent your post to my friend Heinz.
Here is his reply...


also, in the original reports on the incident, one of the people who were with Cheney said 'there might have been a beer or two in there' - this has by now been SCRUBBED from all publicly available press reports. you can still find it in the google cache though.
============================================================
Can someone find this and post it?

Mish

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38112 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/15/2006 1:53 PM
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The speculation is that Cheney was almost certainly drunk

Exact same speculation was raised when "Wrong Turn Teddy" drove off the bridge. The delay necessary to get the blood alcohol content down is about 8 hours, unless one is really pickled -- and Teddy disappeared for 8 hours or so.
cassandra

-----

It's pretty sad that supporters of this administration have to continually resort to dredging stuff up from 35 years ago to use as a sorry defense of 'Well, look what he did.' as if it excuses anything.

If you want to play that way though, how about 'Pickles' killing her boyfriend 40 years ago? That's fair game too, right?

Laura Bush has said she wasn't driving. The police report is very clear she was. Laura Bush said it was raining and the roads were slick. Again, the police report says it was dry and clear. She said Douglas was riding in an open jeep. The police report says he was in a Corvair sedan. Speculation abounds that she had already done some pre-party drinking on her way to a friends house.
According to some re-posted news paper reports from 1963, the person she killed was her boyfriend. She hit him in another car, his car was in the middle of the intersection, she was driving 55 MPH on dry pavement on a clear evening, and she also had to run the stop sign to hit him. Aren't people who kill another human being when they're so clearly at fault -assuming there was nothing intentional- normally charged with manslaughter when something like this happens?
(here's snopes take on it if anyone's interested
http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp )


Pretty sure that Cheney didn't knock up the 78YO male lawyer and (because of his religion) have to find a means other than abortion to hide the inconvenient potential bundle of joy. Guy was too old to have a baby.
-----
I take this as an implication that Mary Jo Kopechne was pregnant (with Ted Kennedy's child)? That's embellishment and pure speculation. There was no autopsy (at the request of her parents) so how would anyone know if she was? I guess a secret pregnancy makes the rumor juicier.


I'm not defending Kennedy, or accusing Laura Bush. I'm saying neither has anything to do with Cheney's hunting accident, and it's stupid to drag up unrelated incidents to excuse or defend it.

Cheney screwed up. Let it stand or fall on its own merits. He shot the guy at close range, then didn't report it to the authorities until the next day. What actually happened will probably never see the light of day, but what is fact is that Cheney broke the law by not reporting the incident to the police when it happened. Now the guy has lead pellets near his heart (which is far more severe than being 'peppered'). If your average citizen did that they would be sitting in a cell waiting for arraignment.
Cheney gets a warning for not having the correct permit? Yeah, that's fair. It's what America is about today though, isn't it?. Do we operate under a system of equal justice under law? Or is there one system for the average citizen and another for the powerful and well connected? (rhetorical question)





Rich

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38125 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/15/2006 6:23 PM
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The speculation is that Cheney was almost certainly drunk

Exact same speculation was raised when "Wrong Turn Teddy" drove off the bridge. The delay necessary to get the blood alcohol content down is about 8 hours, unless one is really pickled -- and Teddy disappeared for 8 hours or so.
cassandra

-----

It's pretty sad that supporters of this administration have to continually resort to dredging stuff up from 35 years ago to use as a sorry defense of 'Well, look what he did.' as if it excuses anything.


You obviously never have any other of cassaundra's post. To say she is a supporter of Bush is laughable. Her post shows that the wealthy operate under a different justice system than the ordinary citizen.

Kennedy offense was not reporting the incident to the authorities til the next morning. Senator Edward Kennedy has pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of a crime and has been sentenced to a two-month suspended jail sentence.

I suspect Cheney will also escape any negligence actions on his part.

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Author: steve203 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38133 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/15/2006 8:05 PM
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>>I suspect Cheney will also escape any negligence actions on his part.<<

The evening news ran a clip of Cheney being interviewed on Faux News. Cheney is now taking the blame because he aimed the gun and pulled the trigger (previously the administration had blamed Whittington for getting in the way) Cheney also admitted to having 1 beer during lunch.

WASHINGTON (AP) - Vice President Dick Cheney took full blame Wednesday for shooting a hunting companion, calling it "one of the worst days of my life," but he was defiantly unapologetic about not publicly disclosing the accident until the next day.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060216/D8FPSAQO1.html

I've been wondering how the junta would ease Cheney out of the way so the heir apparent for 08 could be installed as VP to get a leg up on the 08 campaign. Maybe this will do the trick.

Steve...still favors TX Gov Rick Perry for Repub 08 nomination.



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Author: ogrecat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38144 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/15/2006 9:30 PM
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The evening news ran a clip of Cheney being interviewed on Faux News. Cheney is now taking the blame because he aimed the gun and pulled the trigger (previously the administration had blamed Whittington for getting in the way) Cheney also admitted to having 1 beer during lunch.

I recall from the TV shows about emergency rooms: the seriously soused men always claimed to have had '1 or 2 beers'.

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Author: steross Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38152 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/15/2006 11:25 PM
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I recall from the TV shows about emergency rooms: the seriously soused men always claimed to have had '1 or 2 beers'.

No doubt. ER patients by rule have never had more than two beers and have never been beaten up by less than "two dudes." Nobody gets drunk and nobody gets his a$$ kicked by only one guy.

I wonder how long the spin room discussion was on whether to state 0, 1 or 2 beers for Cheney. Zero could be easily refuted. Two would seem more plausible to the general populace. Only one "with lunch" would be more acceptable to the hard core righties. Guess they went with their base.

steross

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Author: KodiakBear Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38153 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/16/2006 1:51 AM
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"I recall from the TV shows about emergency rooms: the seriously soused men always claimed to have had '1 or 2 beers'. <<

Didn't Ms Armstrong say that no one had been drinking?

KB

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38154 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/16/2006 2:29 AM
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It's pretty sad that supporters of this administration have to continually resort to dredging stuff up from 35 years ago to use as a sorry defense of 'Well, look what he did.' as if it excuses anything.

You obviously never have any other of cassaundra's post. To say she is a supporter of Bush is laughable. Her post shows that the wealthy operate under a different justice system than the ordinary citizen.

-----

Sorry 'bout that. I kinda knew that and didn't mean to bunch her in with the Bushies. The statement though was pretty much the 'but look what Teddy did' defense they dredge up. It was just a matter of convenience that I used it (in other words, I got lazy), but if you look at my post you'll see I said pretty much the same thing about different justice systems.
Cassandra, if I offended you, I apologize.


I suspect Cheney will also escape any negligence actions on his part.
-----
Au contraire mon ami. Cheney has already been punished. He was issued a warning citation for not having the proper permit for the birds he was hunting... from his car... in a freshly stocked field.
Besides, he said he was so upset it nearly spoiled his dinner. You know, the dinner where he was planning damage control before reporting the accident to the proper authorities. I hear he ordered the 'peppered' quail and a beer.




Rich

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Author: nospam4me Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38161 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/16/2006 6:41 AM
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It's pretty sad that supporters of this administration have to continually resort to dredging stuff up from 35 years ago

i was unaware that i was a supporter of this administration.


i was also a resident of Massachusetts at the time of Teddy's wrong turn. There was a great deal of speculation floating around, considering the convenient time delay between the accident and the first appearance of Teddy after the accident. Alcohol use was one of the principal speculations, but it was not the only one. The accident reports were sealed. Autopsy info (if any) was also sealed. One must also take into account the power and wealth of the Kennedy family at the time. If Mary Jo's family "freely chose" not to have an autopsy, why didn't the police conduct one anyway? The death was clearly suspicious, considering that the driver disappeared from the scene. If i had been the driver, you could bet your @ss and about 14 herds of additional @sses that the investigation would not have stopped with a "Please don't collect any forensic evidence from the corpse". The obvious question (was Mary Jo loaded?) could have been answered with a blood test. If one occurred, the results went into the secret archive. The question of pregnancy would have been answered during an autopsy. The implied question that will never be answered (Was she offed because she was pregnant?) could easily have been answered in the negative and forever laid to rest. <*> It wasn't.


So, what do we have?

:> Very powerful family.

:> Very wealthy family.

:> Very important political figure (Senator).

:> Very suspicious accident.

:> Very convenient disappearance of the driver.

:> Sealing of the evidence.

:> Failure to conduct appropriate forensic investigation.

Little wonder the rumours flew.


cassandra

who would vote for a yellow dog with a skin condition before i would vote Teddy for POTUS -- but that doens't make me a Repug.


<*> Yes, i know what i just wrote. It is ugly. It is the kind of speculation that pops up whenever there's a cover-up. Such speculation is often baseless, but the cover-up gives it legs.

/**/

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Author: nospam4me Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38168 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/16/2006 7:04 AM
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so the heir apparent for 08 could be installed as VP to get a leg up on the 08 campaign.

In the context of becoming Replacement Veep in this diseased Administration, the term "leg up" might be taken in the context of the behaviour of a male dog near a fire hydrant.

cassandra

not above using Plausible Deniability in the pursuit of continuing the same olde sh!t forever.

/**/

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Author: hk2 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38177 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/16/2006 10:30 AM
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Pit, I sent your post to my friend Heinz.
Here is his reply...


also, in the original reports on the incident, one of the people who were with Cheney said 'there might have been a beer or two in there' - this has by now been SCRUBBED from all publicly available press reports. you can still find it in the google cache though.
============================================================
Can someone find this and post it?

Mish



http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23707633

Jim


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Author: MATZOID Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38182 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/16/2006 11:07 AM
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The speculation is that Cheney was almost certainly drunk

Exact same speculation was raised when "Wrong Turn Teddy" drove off the bridge. The delay necessary to get the blood alcohol content down is about 8 hours, unless one is really pickled -- and Teddy disappeared for 8 hours or so.

cassandra

Pretty sure that Cheney didn't knock up the 78YO male lawyer and (because of his religion) have to find a means other than abortion to hide the inconvenient potential bundle of joy. Guy was too old to have a baby.


Chappaquiddick! Chappaquiddick!

Of course Kennedy was drunk at Chappaquiddick. Of course that's why he waited. Of course What the f***ing hell does that have to do with Cheney, other than it lends credibility to the accusations of Cheney.

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Author: KodiakBear Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38184 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/16/2006 11:14 AM
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"The speculation is that Cheney was almost certainly drunk"

That's a great oxymoron.
You can be speculating or you can be almost certain, but you can't do both at once.

KB

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Author: nospam4me Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38198 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/16/2006 4:56 PM
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Of course Kennedy was drunk at Chappaquiddick. Of course that's why he waited. Of course What the f***ing hell does that have to do with Cheney, other than it lends credibility to the accusations of Cheney.

unlike some, i am an equal-opportunity deplorer.

cassandra

merely noting that not all Dems are saints, and that not all drunk politicians are named Cheney.

/**/

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Author: MATZOID Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38204 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/16/2006 6:08 PM
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merely noting that not all Dems are saints, and that not all drunk politicians are named Cheney.

Name one politician that is a saint.

And the issue isn't really drunkeness. It is secrecy and cover up in this admin, and, in this specific case, exposing the holier-than-thou crowd for what they really are. Phonies that give lip service to the holy rollers, then go out and drink and curse like anybody else.

If the devil hands out sainthoods, then maybe these people are his.

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Author: steve203 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38209 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/16/2006 7:59 PM
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Bush Approves Cheney's Handling of Mishap

WASHINGTON (AP) - Texas authorities closed the investigation into Vice President Dick Cheney's hunting accident Thursday without bringing any charges. President Bush said Cheney had handled the situation "just fine."


http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060216/D8FQH3F09.html

is anyone surprised?

Steve






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Author: MATZOID Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38231 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/17/2006 10:55 AM
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Bush Approves Cheney's Handling of Mishap

WASHINGTON (AP) - Texas authorities closed the investigation into Vice President Dick Cheney's hunting accident Thursday without bringing any charges. President Bush said Cheney had handled the situation "just fine."

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060216/D8FQH3F09.html

is anyone surprised?


Uh.... no.

They are beyond the laws of mortal men.

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Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 38368 of 90257
Subject: Re: Negligent Homicide Date: 2/20/2006 11:25 AM
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Do we operate under a system of equal justice under law?

As the old saying goes, "Some are more equal under the law than others".

A consistant feature of this administration is the attitude that they are not held to the law as others would be....they makes the laws they don't follows them.

md


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