I love Dell, been a Dell buyer for years, and time to get a new PC. I did see some good reviews on Velocity Micro, though, and wonder if anyone has had experience with them, I mean enough good news to sway someone to switch brand loyalty. I am interested in mostly home use, ability to do some decent gaming, and Windows XP (home or pro). (Also looking at Alienware)Velocity Micro is not publicly traded, and Dunn and Bradstreet are the only data source I could find, but the reports are on a pay-for-it basis, so am not sure how they are doing as a company. I know Dell is in a struggling mode now, but I still like them.Thanks for any insight!Mike
I don't think you have to worry about Dell disappearing. They are industry leaders and profitable. The problem is with trying to be a growth stock. Their market has matured. So it is tough to get people to bid up the stock price to new highs.If you want a machine equipped with XP, Dell could be your best bet. Some suppliers only offer Vista machines these days.Are you sure you want to stick with XP? Microsoft is going to try to force you to change to Vista within the next few years. They plan to stop offering XP on new computers this summer. They will probably try to stop supporting XP within 3 years.If you are willing to go with Vista, check out HP at your local Best Buy. They have a 30 day return policy. If they can't get it running in 30 days, take it back. I bought an HP last July. HP support was excellent and did get it running. But it does take some time (or at least it did then). They should be getting better at it as time goes on and they resolve more and more of the teething problems.
I don't think you have to worry about Dell disappearing. They are … profitable.Barely.The problem is with trying to be a growth stock. Their market has matured…Oh, I don't know about that. Some companies are seeing double-digit growth. Apple, for example, reported 44% growth in unit sales (and a 47% jump in revenue) for the most recently-available quarter.And their market cap is more than three times that of Dell. Source: http://finance.google.com/finance?client=safari&rls=en&q=dell&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=weAnd Windows XP is supported on every currently-available Mac.Just sayin'.(But if you're sure that XP is all you'll ever want, then I wouldn't recommend a Mac.)
"Barely" [profitable].The link you provided shows an earnings per share for Dell of $1.31. Margins are low, but they are still profitable.Dell's situation is much discussed on the Dell board. Their make to order desk top strategy worked well for years, but seems to have reached its peak in terms of market share. That strategy works less well for laptop, less well internationally, and even in the US some buyers prefer more handholding. A person to talk to. A chance to get your hands on the equipment before you buy it.With Dell dependent on components made in Asia, companies like Lenovo would seem to have an advantage for those looking for rock bottom pricing. So Dell is forced to try other strategies to gain market share in the zero-sum PC market. Gateway may go away, but HP and Dell look like survivors for now.Apple hardly counts in this discussion. Their market share was down to about 4% among personal computers. They can double that without anybody else noticing the loss. That is not so for Dell.
Apple hardly counts in this discussion. Their market share was down to about 4% among personal computers. They can double that without anybody else noticing the loss.As of February, their share of the US retail market is variously estimated at between 14% (NPD) and over 20% (Gartner). If Apple went from 4% to 20%, then one or more other manufacturers lost as much as 16%. I'm pretty sure they'd notice.Various news sites have recently reported these interesting numbers regarding US retail computer sales. These numbers are from market research firm NPD as reported here: http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/03/18/apple-spanks-rest-of-computer-industry-in-february-salesThese numbers are for February 2008, compared to February 2007. First, let's look at revenue:AAPL revenue: + 67%Revenue for all brands (including AAPL): + 5%AAPL share of revenue: 25%Working backwards from these numbers, we can calculate:Revenue for all brands (excluding AAPL): -7%Now, let's look at unit sales:AAPL unit sales: +60%Unit sales for all brands (including AAPL): +9%AAPL share of units: 14%Again, working backwards from these numbers, I calculate:Unit sales for all brands (excluding AAPL): +4%What these numbers tell us:1. Everyone else is experiencing a decline in revenue, while AAPL is experiencing spectacular growth in revenue.2. Everyone else is experiencing a paltry increase in unit sales, while AAPL is experiencing spectacular growth in unit sales.I've put these numbers in a spreadsheet. Feel free to check my math:http://www.theaaplinvestor.com/files/February_AAPL.xls
4Q 07 Apple had a 5.68% US Marketshare (box numbers). With a less than 3.91% Marketshare (box numbers) World Wide. Using IDC data.http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=26306583BTW, retail sales are a fraction of computer sales. Don't remember the figures off the top of my head. However, I think it's safe to say that businesses buy lots more computers than consumers do.
Curiously, you show Dell as beating HP in every quarter of 2007.But I just read this in the WSJ last week: "The company [Dell], once the world's largest PC maker, has fallen behind rival Hewlett-Packard Co. in global market share and is trying to turn itself around."Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120723387053086509.htmlI think it's safe to say that businesses buy lots more computers than consumers do.About twice as many. Last time I checked, business buyers accounted for roughly 2/3 of all PC purchases.
Lot of market talk, just for buying a computer. I suppose market position should figure in the least, when looking for a computer. Unless of course you are afraid the company is going to go belly up, and leave you stuck with, uh, the computer you bought.I started out with a Gateway in '95. Back then Windows 3.1 and a Pentium 60 mghtz made for a computer that you could click on a word program, and go make a sandwich before it opened all the way. Turned me off gateways.Bought two Dells since then. The desktop came unuesable out of the box. Tech on the phone had me take the thing apart to the nth degree. Had to send it back. Got one that's been running flawlessly for 6 years now.Bout a Dell laptop, the dvd player broke. They sent me another one pronto. Then I think I fried the whole thing with what I thought was way too small amount of water.So I bought two more computers, laptops, a Toshiba and a Compaq from HP.Both work flawlessy, though the Toshiba had a bios problem that could've been almost fatal. Fixed that myself over the internet. The Compaq was the bottom end model, $450. Frightfully close to an "E" machine, unless you VERY carefully set it up the first time not to give you popups even when you're not online. Other than that, works great.So there's two brands that I havn't had fail out of the box, per se.My friend is very happy with his Gateway, though I thought the case was cheap on the laptop with awful pressure sensitive zig-zag metal case "slit" buttons on top. Press one and the whole case flexes.The Toshiba is heavy, you could pound a stake in with it. The Compaq plastic case seems a little chinsier, like DVD plastic cheap, but works great for the money.Paul T.
why would you base your purchase of a new computer on the companies stock performance !!!!! (if you did this with cars people whould never buy FORDs but they do)all you need to do is work out how much you can afford then what you need in your new system(processor ram HD video OS etc) go online check all the major players and BUY...just don't look at any prices in the next 6 months as what ever you buy WILL be faster bigger and cheaper Have FunAlan
Oh, I don't know about that. Some companies are seeing double-digit growth. Apple, for example, reported 44% growth in unit sales (and a 47% jump in revenue) for the most recently-available quarter.++++++++Steve ole bean.....Apple sells lets say 10% of the 'puters Dell does. Easier to double sales from 1 to 2 million than 20 to 40 millon. We agree?
why would you base your purchase of a new computer on the companies stock performance !!!!You should probably direct your question to the OP, who is the one who originally raised the issue.But one reason why it might be an issue is that I don't want to buy from a company that's going out of business.As for why market-share might be important, well, if some companies have a rapidly-increasing market share, while others are stagnant or declining, don't you think that might be indicative of something?
Steve ole bean.....Apple sells lets say 10% of the 'puters Dell does.Really? Because in February, Apple's retail sales were 14% of the total market.So, using your numbers, then I guess you're saying that Dell's market share is 140%!How do they manage that?If you'd like some hard numbers, take a look here:http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=26544778
Wow, this has been interesting! Thanks to all. I see where the conversation diverged a bit from my original intent (my fault I think - when I posted "love Dell, been a Dell buyer for years", I meant the computer, not the stock). So what I am asking is what brand experiences you've had. Most specifically (since I know Dell), would you but a Velocity Micro or Alienware over a Dell? Just a general perception kind of thing, user experience.This has been very interesting, though, thanks again!Mike
Apple is doing very well and I own the stock.Apple reinvented itself when it rehired Steve Jobs and went into electronic gadgets including iPod and iPhone. Computers continue to be their most profitable line, but the gadgets clearly have done well and contributed in themselves. They also brought large numbers of young buyers into the Apple stories--some of whom bought computers.Apple was in decline for quite a while and people did fear they were going away. They switched to Intel chips because they did not sell enough to get Motorola to develop new chips for them at volume pricing. Once they owned the education market. Now it is almost all PCs. Once people brought Apples into the office for spreadsheet calculations. But IT pushed them out when PCs came around.Apple does a much better job than Microsoft (famous for shipping software loaded with bugs), and Apple has benefited from Microsoft weaknesses.I wish Apple well, but doubt that they will displace the PC anytime soon. But they are a credible alternative. I do find your market share numbers surprising, but they are probably more up to date than my information.
They switched to Intel chips because they did not sell enough to get Motorola…Apple hasn't used Motorola chips in a very long time. They used PowerPC chips from IBM.Once they owned the education market. Now it is almost all PCs. Your information is outdated. Consider:Apple surpassed Dell as the number one supplier of portables to US higher education for 2007…[For 2006] Dell was the top choice of college students planning to purchase a new laptop for school at 40 percent, while Apple was number two at 21 percent.Source: http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/03/03/tim-cook-apple-has-passed-dell-to-the-head-of-the-classAnd things are going up:… recent higher-education survey cited by analyst Katy Huberty reveals that roughly 40 percent of college students say their next computer purchase will be a Mac…http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/26/morgan_stanley_40_of_college_students_plan_to_buy_macs.html
In unit sales, Macs represented 14 percent of sales last month, up from 9 percent for February 2007. +++Show me Mac Market share fro the whole year please. I admit Apple is taking market share but of the 110 computers I bought in 2008 so far 1 was a Mac.
Thanks for the update steven. Its great to see that Apple is doing that well.
Show me Mac Market share fro the whole year please. If you want me to do your research, you'll need to pay me.You'll have to find those numbers yourself. What would be more useful would be to look at a chart comparing sequential month-to-month (or quarter-to-quarter) numbers. Then you can spot the trend.But just looking that the number for all of 2007 only tells you where we've been, not where we're gong.
(if you did this with cars people whould never buy FORDs but they do)Which is probably a sign that people should check the company's stock performance first.dsbrady
So what I am asking is what brand experiences you've had.I know. I paid attention to the assignment. I was the only one to actually offer brand experiences.I was the only one.The only one.Only one.Paul T.
I was the only one.Once the thread got hijacked, and it was an Apple vs. the world discussion, further discussion was really pointless now wasn't it?regards,Michael
I was the only one.The only one.Only one.I think someone needs help - ASAP!
stocks2growI've had good experiences with many of the companies already listed in this thread.DellAppleHP / CompaqGatewayI've also had equally bad experiences with these same computers... That's what happens when you run a support organization for a software product.I've personally owned several Dell computers, an Alienware, several home built boxes and we just inherited a Gateway.What are you planning on using this computer for? Are you looking at a desktop / tower or are you considering a laptop?If I were in the market right now for a brand name computer, specifically a tower, I would go buy a Dell. If I were in the market for a Laptop, I'd consider a Sony, a Lenovo or a Dell. For a serious gaming rig, I'd build it out.My $0.02...xSSMBBP.S.> Welcome back MFD!!!!
"I was the only one.The only one.Only one."This may be how your life turns out... Sad.Ken
PS: Reminds me of an Andrew Gold song...http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/andrew_gold/lonely_boy.html
Nice to see you here, MFD! Yay!;^D ~~ Alison
Nice to see you here, MFD! Yay!Second that.ed
Nice to see you here, MFD! Yay!Second that.Add me to the cheering section!Bob
"What are you planning on using this computer for? "General computing (word processing, taxes, spreadsheets, etc), but want it to do well on games and to have it game capable for the next 3 or 4 years, specifically Flight Sim X. I am wondering about how well new Mac's do with XP or Vista as well, have a few months before I buy.(Looking for a desktop, not laptop)Thanks again,Mike
I am wondering about how well new Mac's do with XP or Vista as well, have a few months before I buy.I'm not sure about the desktop Macs, but PC Mag tested the MacBook Pro last fall to be the fastest laptop they ever tested...to run Vista :)-murray
I think someone needs help - ASAP!Is that what this forum and this website has turned into... someone posting something in good humor only to be personally attacked over and over by (you) while you get rewarded with recs for the constant insults?TMF ops, come on, start doing your jobs.Paul T.
Greetings Paul --For the record I have FA'd your post -- why you insist on being so combative (and disruptive) is way beyond my understanding. I had hoped that you had gone away but sadly I see I was mistaken.Norm
Once the thread got hijacked, and it was an Apple vs. the world discussion, further discussion was really pointless now wasn't it?Probably not pointless for the original poster and those of us who tried to answer their question. Unfortunately, some did hijack it as you say to instead make it about apple vs the world or to make individuals the subject of scrutiny. And even more unfortunate will be if TMF allows those posts who make individuals the subject of this thread, to stand.Paul T., who feels bad for the original poster, however, did try to make them feel good by keeping with the spirit of their subject.
Your post was not funny TMF is doing their jobYou insulted this board when you asked if it was a help boardI am a proven poster on this board for years and you just re-appeared last month after 4 yearsMaybe the reason I get recs is the posters here prefer me to you and the solutions I have providedGet over it
Maybe the reason I get recs is the posters here prefer me to you and the solutions I have providedThat's what I call hitting the nail on the head.ed
Maybe the reason I get recs is the posters here prefer me to you and the solutions I have providedCould be - But, we also like you because you have a good and decent heart, Michael.Sincerely,Bob
Really? Because in February, Apple's retail sales were 14% of the total market.The "total market" is about 260Mu/year... Apple is no where near 14% of that. Apple is closer to 3 or 4% of the total market.Here are some hard numbers:http://www.isuppli.com/News/default.asp?id=8844&m=3&y=2008In Q1 Apple shipped a whopping 2,289,000 units... Q1 will typically be down 10% from Q4, or about 68.5Mu. From this, we get an apple market share of around 3.3%.Steve ole bean.....Apple sells lets say 10% of the 'puters Dell does.Oh, and yeah he exaggerated. Dell is only 5X the sales of apple, down from about 6X a year ago.--Alan
I wrote: Really? Because in February, Apple's retail sales were 14% of the total market.Alan replied, The "total market" is about 260Mu/year... Apple is no where near 14% of thatI specifically said "retail sales," and in earlier posts in the thread I made it clear I was referring to US retail sales.Now Alan, are you really suggesting the the US, with a population of roughly 300 million, sees retail sales of 260 million computers a year?My source is NPD: http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/03/18/apple-spanks-rest-of-computer-industry-in-february-salesAnother analyst, Gartner, estimated 21%: http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/01/analyst-apples-us-consumer-market-share-now-21-percent/
I specifically said "retail sales," and in earlier posts in the thread I made it clear I was referring to US retail sales.Pretty classic lying with statistics... qualify something enough you can find a statistic you like. The reality is Apple market share is growing, but it is still around 3%. IF "US retail sales" was the only market Apple participated in you could make a case, but it isn't.--Alan
The reality is Apple market share is growing, but it is still around 3%That's fine, it just leaves more upside to the growth!:)-murray
That's fine, it just leaves more upside to the growth!And here we come full circle...--Alan
Best Of |
Favorites & Replies |
Start a New Board |
My Fool |