UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (18) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 10547  
Subject: New sub Date: 9/28/2012 2:37 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Today I smashed the piggy bank and bought a Velodyne Optimum-10 sub that has internal equalization to replace a ten year-old PSB sub that hasn’t.

My system allows two subs and, last year, I bought a Velodyne SPL-1000R. For some reason running both was difficult in setting up the bass. I am a believer in buying speaker in pairs and the two, the Velodyne and the PSB Subsonic 111 didn’t match. Nothing wrong with the PSB, when I bought the sub it was the best available in that price range, yet the design was a ported bass and that put out a different wave in the room to the Velodyne (front firing, no ports). I spent much time positioning the subs to get the bass working but it was a compromise. If I had both front firing or both ported I don’t think it would have been as hard to setup. Having a mismatch was difficult. So the decision to get the Optimum-10.

So, after being offered a price I couldn't refuse, I set up the new Optimum-10 and ran the EQ program (the speaker comes with a mike to do this) and set the crossover to 80 Hz, THX recommend. I haven’t finished getting the bass the way I want it (lows that add rather than those smashing small ornaments) and I’ll do that this weekend. However, in the initial placement and EQ, the sound overall seems clearer.

Elly thought the dialog on my test (Master and Commander) was easier to hear and my CD test (Ray Lynch’s Bests) seemed to have better location use of the other speakers.

What I haven’t done is run the Yamaha amp’s YPAO speaker balance. It will be interesting to see if the other speakers than bass change settings.

Let you know.

MichaelR
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9614 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 9/30/2012 12:06 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Since I had the house to myself – Elly went shopping – I got to work on integrating the new sub with the room and the system. The objective was to integrate two subs: the new Velodyne Optimum-10 replacing the older PSB Subsonic 111 and with a second Velodyne already in place. The reasons for chosing ten-inch subs is because I feel that the next option – a 12-inch – isn’t needed in a 3,000 cu. ft listening room.

I first turned the amps down to it’s lowest volume thus keeping the subs live but not receiving anything and ran the sever-level parametric test (using the included mic). That done I turned up the sound and ran Yamaha’s YPAO sound check and learned thje new sub waas sset too low so I increased the YPAO setting and the sub’s internal volume control. Ran YPAO a second time and the new sub was in range. I set both subs to cross at 80 Hz.—all mains set the same.

I then ran some test discs with strong bass and found all this resulted in a weak bass: so I advanced the volume coming off the amp and that corrected it. If you are setting up a sub make sure it’s getting a strong enough feed off the amp – some subs, especially Velodyne, need a strong input to work best.

The older (must be more than ten years ago I got it) PSB Subsonic 111 was more designed as a bass extension in a 2.1 stereo system and, while it did have inputs directly connecting a line-out from an amp, LF signals seemed confused. I noticed this when I put the first-purchased Velodyne in combination with it and the Velodyne gave a cleaner LF than the Subsonic 111. For a while I had the Subsonic turned off because the single Velodyne covered bass and LF better. The reason I got the new Velodyne was I wanted stereo bass figuring since I could separate the amp’s LF into stereo I would get a better distributed bass.

That I believe I have. While subs are supposedly non-directional, I have found toeing them to the seating area does make a difference. I plan on finessing that later. I am not so sure placing a sub in a corner is preferable: mine stand about four feet from the nearest wall and I don’t get that boomy sound I used to get when the subs were placed closer to the room’s corners.

Now the system is mostly (I am sure I will tweak) now its media content testing time. This part I really like. Elly not so much because I play snippets and she get caught in content wondering why I am not. Therefore when I do this sort of thing I say, “Go shopping. You did say you were looking at blouses,” and off she goes.

I figure the cost of the amp is it’s price plus several blouses, at least a sweater or two, and a ‘pair of shoes I had to get’.

MichaelR

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9615 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 9/30/2012 2:40 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Not to go on and on about this yet in the past several hours I’ve played ‘stuff’ to see how the new sub affects the system. It does and there’s a reason why: much said about subs and their placement is dated – much of it can be discounted.

Back in the day (1979) I created the equilateral plywood triangle which, placed in the upper corner of a room, reduces corner echo. However, some – and this includes sub manufacturers – say corner placement ‘improves’ bass. It doesn’t. All it does is add echoic confusion. This confusion affects all other speakers as they compete in this confusion. The answer, say some, is add room diffusers and while in some rooms they do help what they’re helping at is reduce induced confusion caused by low frequency waves reverberating in corners. Plus corner placement causes standing waves in turn causing null spots in the listening room. Now you see why I don’t like placing subs close to walls and especially corner walls.

One way to place a sub is have it on the main seating area and walk around the room seeking a good bass response and then place the sub where that happened. That is, my view, not that which give good bass but louder bass. Better, since sub electronics have greatly improved in the past ten years, is place the sub near the mains wherever they are placed. Modern subs such as the Velodyne have parametric level control and that can compensate for where the sub is actually placed.

The other dated concept is that subs are non-directional and it doesn’t matter where they’re placed because they are non-directional. However, my experience, a sub should be treated as any other speaker: focused on the listening area. My two subs are toed in as are the mains, matching their placement and it has made a difference. When they were parallel to the long walls of my listening room they were not as effective.

Point I’m making is sub placement, these days, isn’t as once was. A sub jammed into a corner doesn’t give what a good sub can do: a clear un-muddied bass.

So what should a sub do? Sure, increase the total frequency range yet most written about subs was before the advanced Dolby and DTS codecs which separate the low frequencies and there’s more emphasis on lows . If these lows reverb because of corner echo then it isn’t doing what it can.

Thoughts?

MichaelR

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9616 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/1/2012 3:38 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
So then why did they like to tell you to stick your sub in a corner? I assume they performed all sorts of tests, have they changed the types of tests? what changed their thinking?

For the heck of it I pulled mine way from the wall and looked in back. It's got a volume knob, variable HZ knob 80-120, a polarity switch for 0 or 180 a set of RCA jacks for Level In (no idea what those are for) and of course, the speaker knobs and on/off/auto switch. DO the new ones still have these things?


And now I'm heading off into a tangent...

I bought the Boston Acoustics for my family room back in '97 or '98 (I'm pretty sure Dolby was around then as well as THX). That living room had 9-11 foot cathedral ceilings, wall to wall plush carpet, drywall, a stone fireplace next to the home theater system and a wall of windows. I remember placing the sub in the corner and trying it pointed 90 degrees from the main speakers and then parallel with them. Honestly can't remember which set-up we preferred. But man did it sound GOOD. I think the first movie we tested it on was Air Force One.

Our current house has a totally different dynamic and I've occasionally wondered if the sub's current placement is wrong. It's no longer in a corner but it is against a wall on the bottom shelf of one of my oak cabinets. All speakers are parallel. The room is knotty pine, walls and cathedral ceiling, huge beams, a staircase to the loft behind the sound wall, another stone fireplace this time opposite and no wall at all between the LR and kitchen. Crappy wall to wall and vinyl flooring. I really ought to take a photo!

But I have to say I don't get the same feeling with the home theater here. It's possible I also don't have the switches on the sub woofer set properly for this room and the manual which is missing and I remember being little more than useless anyway.

So though I may not be adding much to this discussion in relation to your question, you do have me thinking about how to improve things! (And they ARE improving, I hope, in other ways, but I'll save that post for later.)

RM :-)

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9617 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/1/2012 4:40 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
So then why did they like to tell you to stick your sub in a corner? I assume they performed all sorts of tests, have they changed the types of tests? What changed their thinking?

RM


Back in the day most subs were large-sized speakers and low-power internal amps. Most had amps of about 180 Watts while those sold today have about 2400 and relatively smaller speakers: the efficiency has increased and the need to use corner echo as a boost is dated. Sure, corner echo emphasizes bass yet, similarly, muddies bass so the differences in bass are hard to notice.

For the heck of it I pulled mine way from the wall and looked in back. It's got a volume knob, variable HZ knob 80-120, a polarity switch for 0 or 180 a set of RCA jacks for Level In (no idea what those are for) and of course, the speaker knobs and on/off/auto switch. Do the new ones still have these things?

Yup. The RCA jacks are there to feed the sub a low-level input from the amp (marked, usually, ‘pre-out’) allowing the sub’s amp to be used rather than the main amp’s power. The frequency knob cuts out all frequencies above its setting allowing the other speakers to handle the higher frequencies.

And now I'm heading off into a tangent...

I bought the Boston Acoustics for my family room back in '97 or '98 (I'm pretty sure Dolby was around then as well as THX). That living room had 9-11 foot cathedral ceilings, wall to wall plush carpet, drywall, a stone fireplace next to the home theater system and a wall of windows. I remember placing the sub in the corner and trying it pointed 90 degrees from the main speakers and then parallel with them. Honestly can't remember which set-up we preferred. But man did it sound GOOD. I think the first movie we tested it on was Air Force One.

Our current house has a totally different dynamic and I've occasionally wondered if the sub's current placement is wrong. It's no longer in a corner but it is against a wall on the bottom shelf of one of my oak cabinets. All speakers are parallel. The room is knotty pine, walls and cathedral ceiling, huge beams, a staircase to the loft behind the sound wall, another stone fireplace this time opposite and no wall at all between the LR and kitchen. Crappy wall to wall and vinyl flooring. I really ought to take a photo!

But I have to say I don't get the same feeling with the home theater here. It's possible I also don't have the switches on the sub woofer set properly for this room and the manual which is missing and I remember being little more than useless anyway.


The difference of the rooms is the reverb time and that’s not that easy to alter without expense. What makes a difference is speaker placement. But first reset the sub’s crossover to 120 Hz if it’s not there already and experiment with the phase switch on the sub – bass is affected if the mains and the subs products are out-of-phase: one setting will give you better bass than the other. Also, toeing in speakers, even subs, can make a difference.

This whole thing on bass management is because most of a room’s character is affected by frequencies below 120 Hz. Above this the waveform is short and measured in fractions of an inch: subs produce a waveform several feet long and are several times more powerful. Highs decay faster while lows just keep on going bouncing off everything in the room.

MichaelR

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9618 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/2/2012 11:46 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
But first reset the sub’s crossover to 120 Hz if it’s not there already and experiment with the phase switch on the sub – bass is affected if the mains and the subs products are out-of-phase: one setting will give you better bass than the other. Also, toeing in speakers, even subs, can make a difference.


I did that, it was set at 80. On re-reading the booklet I can still find, the one from BA listing the whole mid 1990's line, it said this sub actually has a variable range between 50 and 150 Hz, they only marked the 80 and 120.

I've also slightly angled it towards the center. DH's recliner has the prime spot smack in the middle of everything, my chair is a 5 feet to the right. I guess I'll also try angling the left front speaker towards the center, the right front points between our chairs.

Another question on that line in for the sub's amp (listed with a 75 watt high-current amp). My Sony doesn't not have anything on the back called pre-out and looking at the Yamaha 373 which is the a/v I think I will get, it does not have a pre-out either but it does have a single jack labeled sub woofer. It's not looking as though I'll be able to use the sub's amp either? would I even want to?

Sorry I've hijacked your thread.

RM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9619 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/2/2012 2:26 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
You shouldn't need to angle your speakers. In fact, that will change the soundscape a lot. If your amp has the ability to measure the room, you just place your speakers, use the microphone at the listening location, and let it configure the speakers. Michael will argue for further tweaks, but that is at least a good first step. Yamaha calls it YPAO. IMO, symmetry is the key. Imagine a 'T' in your room. L/R mains should be pointing straight forward, they should be equidistant from the perpendicular line that leads from the line connecting the mains to the listening position. In a truly ideal world you want the L/R mains and the seat to be three points on an equilateral triangle, but the real world often does not permit this. The sub isn't really directional, so it is not as important where you place it (based on Michael's recent writings it appears the corner of the room is no longer the favored spot).

I don't see the value to using the sub's amp. Maybe Michael will disagree (in which case, listen to him). However, if you main amp can drive it then I would let it. I believe the amp in the sub is for low-power situations where you want a sub too. An iPod, or your typical dock, probably doesn't put out enough to drive a sub. For example.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9620 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/2/2012 3:42 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I don't know why subs back in the '90s had amps but I doubt it was for ipods, I guess for crappier av receivers. You probably don't remember my amp is a 20 year old Sony whose circuits are dying one by one. Only thing it's got is a test tone to check that all 5 speakers are functioning. It also allows you to change the delay time between the front and surrounds from 15-30 ms. Have no idea what to do with that.

DH's chair is at the point of that triangle, lucky fool, mine is off to the side.

After adjusting my sub per Michael's suggestion I popped in "The Fellowship of the Ring" and boy does it sound good. I even felt the floor rumble when the music swelled. Can't wait to show DH when he gets home.

I also started puttering around the avsforum for the first time and learned something about my directv box so started trolling through its menus and discovered there was actually an on/off for dolby digital and it was set to off. I hate to think I've had this box for 2 years and wasn't getting dolby sound via satellite till last night!

I need to hang my head in shame or at the very least pound it against the wall.

RM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9621 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/2/2012 4:15 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Sorry I've hijacked your thread.

RM


Most pleased you have. You’ve added to the thread.

But first reset the sub’s crossover to 120 Hz if it’s not there already and experiment with the phase switch on the sub – bass is affected if the mains and the subs products are out-of-phase: one setting will give you better bass than the other. Also, toeing in speakers, even subs, can make a difference.


I did that, it was set at 80. On re-reading the booklet I can still find, the one from BA listing the whole mid 1990's line, it said this sub actually has a variable range between 50 and 150 Hz, they only marked the 80 and 120.


The sub’s upper range setting should be at the main speakers’ lowest. That way the total frequency range is seamless. I don’t know the frequencies of your mains but you can’t go wrong setting the sub to 120-150 There will be some slight duplication at that mark but, essentially, better some overlap than a hole.

I've also slightly angled it towards the center. DH's recliner has the prime spot smack in the middle of everything, my chair is a 5 feet to the right. I guess I'll also try angling the left front speaker towards the center, the right front points between our chairs.

Try this: aim the left main at your seat and the right main to his. Alternately, left and right mains aimed at the space between the seats. Most speaker placements try for a ‘sweet spot’ acting if having off-axis speakers is a crime. If you make the sweet spot wider then sure there’s some off-axis but I also take into consideration how speaker placement affects room reverb and null spots.

If the speakers were previously placed parallel to the walls and then you then toe them towards the listening area this alters the reverb characteristics of the room. Since the perfect room doesn’t exist outside a sound lab one has to experiment with what one has. You will get better sound toeing in the speakers but the exact amount is more dependent on the room than the speakers themselves. I have seem some most expensive speakers not perform well and some cheapies from Radio Shack do far better when toed in.

Another question on that line in for the sub's amp (listed with a 75 watt high-current amp). My Sony doesn't not have anything on the back called pre-out and looking at the Yamaha 373 which is the a/v I think I will get, it does not have a pre-out either but it does have a single jack labeled sub woofer. It's not looking as though I'll be able to use the sub's amp either? Would I even want to?

How do you have the sub presently connected? For data: the Yamaha 373’s sub out is a pre-out sending a line level signal and the amp’s internal crossover sends a low-frequency signal to the sub so the sub’s amp can amplify. Tip: get a y-connector connected to the sub’s left and right channels.

The sub you have is designed as a low frequency speaker. Technically it is a sub woofer in that it handles stuff below a woofer and, as an adjunct to a stereo system, sought after. Back then hi-fi purists said if you can hear the sub its set too high. That’s why subs produced in that period were low wattage (70-150) – after all, who needs any higher power?

Home theater was poo-pooed by the hi-fi purists mainly because of the ‘manufactured’ separation created by commercial theater Dolby sound. Too much ‘boom’, not enough musicality. That argument still rages in places today.

Subs have changed in the past decade: more oomph and able to handle an LFE signal as in 5.1. What happened was it became acceptable to have a strong bass as an effect channel. RM, when you get the Yamaha amp you will have the advanced sound codecs and, while your present sub will handle some bass, it may have a problem with very-low frequencies. It may work out and it is experimental time.

MichaelR

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9622 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/2/2012 6:42 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The reason I toe in my speakers is because when off-axis the higher frequencies drop off. Paul Barton at PSB Speakers showed me this some years ago. His site gives off-axis numbers for all his speakers. For instance, the PSB Alpha speaker on axis is 55-21,000 Hz while off axis is 55-10,000 Hz. Off axis cuts to half the higher frequencies.

YPAO and Audyssey will measure speakers as to tonality, distance, and frequency range relative to the mike placed in the seating position but if the speaker is off-axis to the mike a false rating occurs. Those speakers that aren’t directional (dipole or bipole surrounds) can be measured off-axis but they were never meant to be heard on axis.

And yes, toeing in speakers does alter the room characteristics. One day, when I win the lottery, I am going to build the perfect sound room and attach a house to it. Until then I have to put up with a room that, at about 3,000 cubic feet, can be, ahem, daunting. Like all suburban homes it’s wallboard 15x27x8 and it does have a reverb that inherent. However, with the speakers toed into the seating area all the changes I have to make are to the room itself (cover hardwood floor with a scatter rug, that sort of thing).

The other is subs and their effect in corner echo. As everyone when I got my first subs placed them as recommended in the corner but was never satisfied with the bass until I moved them away from the corner. I also had my mains too close to the wall and they too sounded better when I moved them away. The only speakers I have that are close to the wall are the dipole surrounds – but I have then set to small so they handle little bass.

MichaelR

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9623 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/2/2012 7:02 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
So you're suggesting I point my SM155s along the side of the equilateral triangle to the listening point? I would probably have to re-run YPAO.

Mine are already about 6" or so from the wall. But pointed straight out. Separation about 14' or so (and at least 20" from the side walls). And the sub (down-firing) is a good 12" from the corner.

1poorguy

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9624 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/2/2012 8:59 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
So you're suggesting I point my SM155s along the side of the equilateral triangle to the listening point? I would probably have to re-run YPAO.
1poorguy


Since the SM155’s are to drool for I would. I don’t know the off-axis drop-off but knowing the design I’d say there could be some but not as much as some others. You may have to tweak the cross-over points in the speaker but maybe not. Worth trying though. And, yes, I’d rerun the YPAO.

I still kick myself for not getting a pair when they were on sale a few years ago. If ever there was a speaker suitable for a large setting off the amp the 115s are they.

Mine are already about 6" or so from the wall. But pointed straight out. Separation about 14' or so (and at least 20" from the side walls). And the sub (down-firing) is a good 12" from the corner.

If we follow the equilateral triangle placement then your seating area is 14 feet from the mains. Mine was about the same and I found if I moved the speakers more towards each other the sound improved (went from 14 feet down to ten speaker to speaker). Don’t know how the 115s would react as would smaller mains (I have Infinity Reference). However, since the frequency of the SM115s is 34-20,000 Hz it does produce a long bass wave and having that aimed at the seating could give a clearer bass than if it were bouncing off the side walls.

My mains are aimed with the right main facing the left hand side of the seating area and the left main at the right side. It seems to work for me.

As for the downward firing sub because it is essentially a 360 degree source it is more affected by corner echo than front firing. Since your great room is that large maybe you need that enhancement. I’d experiment moving it further from the corner to see if there is a change in bass in the room.

If you do re-aim the speakers let everyone know how it works for you.

How are the new surrounds working out?

MichaelR

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9625 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/2/2012 10:38 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Currently my mains are right next to the TV which sits a bit above eye/eye level seated. Would you recommend moving them down one shelf to put them more directly in line with our ears? The TV itself is at a good height for our us, we are far enough away that we are quite comfortable.

RM

PS - watching Fellowship of the Ring with DH tonight, I think he is suitably impressed with what I've done so far. I'm still moving things about. :-)

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9626 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/2/2012 11:23 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Currently my mains are right next to the TV which sits a bit above eye/eye level seated. Would you recommend moving them down one shelf to put them more directly in line with our ears? The TV itself is at a good height for our us, we are far enough away that we are quite comfortable.

RM

PS - watching Fellowship of the Ring with DH tonight, I think he is suitably impressed with what I've done so far. I'm still moving things about. :-)


You could but better would be to raise the back of the speaker so the front is more aimed to the seating. Use anything that doesn’t compress that easily. About an inch thickness should do it – doesn’t take much.

Your DH should be impressed.

MichaelR

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9627 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/3/2012 2:31 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
How are the new surrounds working out?

I boosted the levels on them compared to the YPAO settings. Most of the time if they are doing much I can't really hear it. Which might be a good thing. On occasion, however, a movie does something that gets enough coming out of them that I notice, and once I even wondered what it was for a moment (e.g. did something happen in the kitchen?). That's definitely a good thing.

It's strange, but I'm so conditioned to pointing the speakers straight I'm having a hard time in my mind just entertaining the idea of turning them. That will also change the bass port (since it will now bounce off the back wall at an angle). I know that's mostly for air movement, but I believe it also does add some to the sound.

1poorguy

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9629 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/3/2012 4:23 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
How are the new surrounds working out?

I boosted the levels on them compared to the YPAO settings. Most of the time if they are doing much I can't really hear it. Which might be a good thing. On occasion, however, a movie does something that gets enough coming out of them that I notice, and once I even wondered what it was for a moment (e.g. did something happen in the kitchen?). That's definitely a good thing.

1poorguy


What I’ve done is play something 5.1 first with the back surrounds on and then with them off to hear a difference. There is. To me it’s particularly noticeable because, with the surrounds, the room’s ‘ambience’ shifts. Elly put it as ‘the room seems larger’ with the surrounds. Those in-ceiling speakers you chose are damn good and I would expect – even if your room is large as it is – you’d notice the difference with them off.

It's strange, but I'm so conditioned to pointing the speakers straight I'm having a hard time in my mind just entertaining the idea of turning them. That will also change the bass port (since it will now bounce off the back wall at an angle). I know that's mostly for air movement, but I believe it also does add some to the sound.

The SM115’s, because of the huge woofer move a hell of a lot of air and because they’re ported rather than sealed the speaker’s tympani moves air through the back ports that does carry sonic information. So you have, basically, two low-frequency streams: one direct from the front and one from the back (the back stream carrying only bass data). This means you have two reverb-causing signals from the unit.

I’d toe in the SM115s just to see how those changed streams affect the room’s reverb characteristics. One thing I have found is ported speakers need more physical room than unported.

MichaelR

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9741 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/14/2012 7:48 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
So Michael, getting back to that new sub you bought. How do you like it? Moved it around any? Does Elly like it?

RM

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9742 of 10547
Subject: Re: New sub Date: 10/14/2012 8:22 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
So Michael, getting back to that new sub you bought. How do you like it? Moved it around any? Does Elly like it?

RM


Elly likes content; I like my system to enhance that content. That, in a nutshell, is how we both appreciate what we have – even though Elly’s eyes sometime glaze over when I am explaining the finer (to me absolutely necessary) points. She politely listens but I really don’t think her heart is in knowing the value of crossover points and frequencies.

One of my tests for changes in the system is playing the ‘I Want To Be a Producer’ musical scene from The Producers. It’s got a tap-dancing chorus line, male and female voices, and is a workout for the system. So I run it and just that: Elly says, “Don’t stop there. I was getting interested in it.”

The new sub fits in and I didn’t have to move it around much since I did have its predecessor placed well. I raised the right-hand sub up about 18-inches with a concrete patio block and I plan on doing that with the new, left-hand, sub.

MichaelR

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (18) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement