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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 61106  
Subject: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/18/2012 6:20 PM
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The gunman who slaughtered 20 children and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school may have snapped because his mother was planning to commit him to a psychiatric facility, according to a lifelong resident of the area who was familiar with the killer’s family and several of the victims’ families.

Adam Lanza, 20, targeted Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown after killing his mother early Friday because he believed she loved the school “more than she loved him,” said Joshua Flashman, 25, who grew up not far from where the shooting took place. Flashman, a U.S. Marine, is the son of a pastor at an area church where many of the victims' families worship.

“From what I've been told, Adam was aware of her petitioning the court for conservatorship and (her) plans to have him committed," Flashman told FoxNews.com. "Adam was apparently very upset about this. He thought she just wanted to send him away. From what I understand, he was really, really angry. I think this could have been it, what set him off.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/fear-being-committed-ma...


Likely he should have been committed months or years ago.


t.
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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46915 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/18/2012 8:48 PM
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telegraph posts,

“From what I've been told, Adam was aware of her petitioning the court for conservatorship and (her) plans to have him committed," Flashman told FoxNews.com. "Adam was apparently very upset about this. He thought she just wanted to send him away. From what I understand, he was really, really angry. I think this could have been it, what set him off.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/fear-being-committed-ma......

</snip>


How often does Fox News get anything right?

I'm still laughing over the way their election expert Karl Rove reacted to the news Obama crushed ole Lyin' Mitt Romney in Ohio.

If this young man was mentally disturbed enough to be committed to an institution, there's no way his Tea-Bagger mother should have been taking him to the range for firearms training.

intercst

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46918 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/18/2012 9:48 PM
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intercst:"If this young man was mentally disturbed enough to be committed to an institution, there's no way his Tea-Bagger mother should have been taking him to the range for firearms training."

And he should have never been allowed to play violent video games, gone on line to Goth chat rooms, or see Hollywood blockbusters where 1 million rounds of ammo are shot off in one move alone.


The mental health system failed.

And obviously as time went on his problem got worse.

Remember, this kid was driving on CT roads...could have lost it and taken out intercst who was cruising down the road...


t.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46926 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/19/2012 9:53 AM
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tele posts,

“From what I've been told, Adam was aware of her petitioning the court for conservatorship and (her) plans to have him committed," Flashman told FoxNews.com. "Adam was apparently very upset about this. He thought she just wanted to send him away. From what I understand, he was really, really angry. I think this could have been it, what set him off.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/fear-being-committed-ma......

</snip>


I told you the Fox News people were such liars.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/motive-behind-newto...

Richard Flashman, a pastor at Beacon Hill Evangelical Free Church in nearby Monroe, was forced to put out a statement after his son told FoxNews.com that Lanza’s mother, Nancy, wanted to put him in a psychiatric facility.

“I’ve just spoken to Josh,” Flashman said of his son, according to The Journal News. “As the Fox News article indicates, the information Josh spoke to them about was hearsay and not confirmed. I suggest you do not run with the story. I am perplexed why Fox would run with it in the first place.”

</snip>


intercst

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Author: FCorelli Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46930 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/19/2012 10:42 AM
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If this young man was mentally disturbed enough to be committed to an institution, there's no way his Tea-Bagger mother should have been taking him to the range for firearms training.

intercst



Maybe she thought it would be good therapy

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46932 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/19/2012 10:45 AM
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"If this young man was mentally disturbed enough to be committed to an institution,"

CT has the weakest, in the entire country, mental health laws and the WORST mental care record.

I really wonder why intercst moved to such a paradise of deprived citizens who can't keep mental cases institutionalized.



t.

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46954 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/19/2012 9:46 PM
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If this young man was mentally disturbed enough to be committed to an institution, there's no way his Tea-Bagger mother should have been taking him to the range for firearms training.


Maybe she thought it would be good therapy

That's teabagger logic for you. Guns don't kill people. Crazy people with guns do. So make sure the crazy people have access to guns. And block health care, so they stay crazy.

Then sit back and watch the gun sales surge. Profit.


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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46963 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/20/2012 12:40 PM
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CT has the weakest, in the entire country, mental health laws and the WORST mental care record.

Shock and amazement! I find this statement from 'telegraph' and I go to check it out, and what do you think I find?

In Mental Health care, Connecticut gets an "A".

Texas? A "D".

Arkansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, West Virginia? An "F".

New York, Massachusetts, Maine, Maryland? An "A".

The entire South, (except for those which get an "F",) a "D".

I am soooo surprised, 'telegraph' somehow, accidentally managed to get his facts wrong. I'm sure he'll check the next ones better.

http://www.nami.org/gtsTemplate09.cfm?Section=Findings&T...

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46965 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/20/2012 2:39 PM
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Goofyhoofy writes,

<<<tele: CT has the weakest, in the entire country, mental health laws and the WORST mental care record.>>

Shock and amazement! I find this statement from 'telegraph' and I go to check it out, and what do you think I find?

In Mental Health care, Connecticut gets an "A".

Texas? A "D".

</snip>


In Texas, we house most of the mentally ill in the Republican cloakroom in the State Capital, with the real crazies (e.g. Louie Gohmert) sent to Washington for specialized treatment and care.

intercst

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46967 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/20/2012 4:00 PM
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"In Texas, we house most of the mentally ill in the Republican cloakroom in the State Capital, with the real crazies (e.g. Louie Gohmert) sent to Washington for specialized treatment and care.

intercst "


I thought you had taken up residence in CT, not far from the kid who went beserk?


You did buy a condo up there, right?



t.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46977 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/20/2012 8:15 PM
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telegraph asks,

I thought you had taken up residence in CT, not far from the kid who went beserk?


You did buy a condo up there, right?

</snip>


No. The condo isn't in Connecticut. When I'm up there I stay in Hartford -- more than an hour's drive from the Newtown massacre.

intercst

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46980 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/20/2012 8:32 PM
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intercst:"No. The condo isn't in Connecticut."

Oh...so your staying in the Tea Party state of Texas to take advantage of no income taxes?

Avoiding paying taxes elsewhere to take care of the welfare weenies.....


You're not that far from where the islamo nut case went berserk and took out 20 young lives here in TX at Ft Hood.....just a few hours from your new condo location, right? Another case of a nutcase who talked incessantly about going ballistic, who visited Jihadi websites....but whom the 'government' failed...heck it even transferred the 'problem' individual to TX to get him out of the high profile Wash DC area. They probably didn't want him going nusto up there at the Pentagon one day. They knew he was psycho ready to explode at any minute....


t.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46981 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/20/2012 8:42 PM
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You're not that far from where the islamo nut case went berserk and took out 20 young lives here in TX at Ft Hood.

Fort Hood is at least a 4 hour drive from Houston.

intercst

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46983 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/20/2012 9:53 PM
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intercst:"Fort Hood is at least a 4 hour drive from Houston."


You should use the new Austin Bypass....85 mph legal speed....

Heck....4 hours? you could zip over there in a few heartbeats.....

visit the islamo nutcase still in jail, looking for a stage to spew his hatred.

If I were the judge, He'd be clean shaven each and every day, or denied his special food...... and if he went on a hunger strike..even better..save the taxpayer money....


t.

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Author: LorenCobb Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46987 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/21/2012 12:02 AM
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GH: I am soooo surprised, 'telegraph' somehow, accidentally managed to get his facts wrong.

Actually, there are many ways of ranking the mental health systems of the states. Depending on what you focus on, they give very different results. Tele claimed that Connecticut has the weakest mental health laws, but NAMI (which you quoted) was referring to public funding for mental health. To me those sound like different things.

My state, Colorado, got a grade of "C" from NAMI, despite its truly dismal record. Either they whitewashed Colorado, or somebody fed the researchers some bad data for the study.

One measure which I think really gets at the heart of the problem is public inpatient capacity relative to demand. Because it is calculated relative to demand, it does not discriminate against states with generally good levels of mental health. It counts beds, not dollars, which is one way of adjusting for differing costs of care. Using this measure, Colorado ranks dead last. I don't know where Connecticut ranks.

www.ucdadvocate.com/news/colorado-ranks-16th-in-mental-illne...

When folks are seriously mentally ill, they typically exhaust their families' resources and patience in just a few years. After that there are only four choices: (a) chain them down in an attic, as was done in previous centuries, (b) throw them in prison and let the guards administer "therapy", (c) let them beg for food and live on the streets, or (d) pay for their care in public institutions with tax money.

Here in Colorado, 14 people are turned away from the mental health system for every one treated with public funds. The 14 quickly end up on the streets, and from there they migrate into our prisons and jails -- and that is one reason why Colorado's incarceration rate is so high.

Personally, I favor a system of half-way houses, distinct from addiction recovery homes, which are important but very different. Such a system would build upon each state's existing slender resources in this area. I suspect that when all the costs are fully audited and accounted for, this solution will prove to deliver the best net discounted benefit per public tax dollar expended. Since many of our Colorado homeless are military veterans with serious mental issues, I would also expect the federal VA to make a large annual contribution to the system.

Loren

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Author: PucksFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46991 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/21/2012 8:57 AM
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My state, Colorado, got a grade of "C" from NAMI, despite its truly dismal record. Either they whitewashed Colorado, or somebody fed the researchers some bad data for the study.

Maybe NAMI grades on the curve.

PF

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46993 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/21/2012 9:08 AM
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"Maybe NAMI grades on the curve."

Doesn't matter..the mental health care system failed miserably in:


VA - the VA Tech killings - there were YEARS of behavior that should have sent spine chilling alerts through the medical system. grade FAIL

CT - the CT killings - there were YEARS of behavior and months of recent total out of control behavior that should have sent spine chilling alerts through the system to get this guy under control - grade FAIL

TX- Killeen killing spree at Fort Hood by deranged, pre-meditated islamo nutcase Nidal......who the gov't transferred away from the DC area to get the nutcase gone and transferred to 'somewhere else, anywhere else'...... and he took out over 20 young people's lives (in a 'gun free' zone on the base. Epic fail by the Veteran's system and the entire line of command above him he knew of his radicalization and mental in capacities. EPIC FAIL


The 'system' didn't contain these nutcase explosions that had red flags all over them.

Doesn't matter whan NAMI survey said. They probably patted themselves on the back for getting the most bucks out of the state for the least effective treatments.... (and lined their pockets)...who knows......



t.

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Author: LordArthur Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46994 of 61106
Subject: Re: now the reason for the killing spree Date: 12/21/2012 9:41 AM
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"Doesn't matter..the mental health care system failed miserably in:" - tele


It doesn't matter because there are no easy and simple answers to deal with the mentally ill. Even halfway houses, which sound wonderful in theory, will have problems with angry, confused, and violent veterans that can't makes sense of a world that condones killing in one context and not another.

We live in an imperfect world. All we can do is do the best we can and then cross our fingers and hope for the best. Sometimes it doesn't work. That is just the way it is. The idea that somehow we can come up with a perfect system is unrealistic.

Art

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