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TMF Pixy's article about the likelihood of needing a nursing home at some point in your lifetime is a real thought provoker. Some additional things to consider: The people selling insurance coverage for nursing home care know that a very high percentage of patients are suffering from some form of dementia, e.g., Alzheimers Disease, and most of the policies exclude "mental illness". Since dementias generally result from some form of physical deterioration of the brain, you need to make sure that the policy explicitly covers dementia. Second, since most of us have many years to prepare for such an event, it is more prudent for us to invest our own money to cover the likelihood of such a risk. Third, even if you don't have nursing home insurance, Medicaid will cover the expenses. Granted, this requires that most of a person's assets be already gone, but there is no requirement that heirs be provided for. Besides, a person with foresight enough to consider nursing home insurance can use early gifting to those future heirs and/or a non-revocable trust (which must be effective at least 3 years prior to the disablement).
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This is a shining example of misinformation.
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When jasmada says, "This is a shining example of misinformation"; which one of his prior posts is he referring to?
--WauseonFox--
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<<When jasmada says, "This is a shining example of misinformation"; which one of his prior posts is he referring to?>>

Dunno. Jasma in da Penalty Box.


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Wrt the cute comment by Jasmada, I checked his profile, and noticed that he is an "Advisor" for Long Term Care Insurance. Now I understand why he didn't like my post. Not to worry, Jasmada, there are plenty of folks for you to "advise". Most of them aren't reading TMF.
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Is that why they call this the "fool", Im hanging on your position.
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Ok,

I stand penalized.
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TMF Pixy's article about the likelihood of needing a nursing home at some point in your lifetime is a real thought
provoker. Some additional things to consider: The people selling insurance coverage for nursing home care know that
a very high percentage of patients are suffering from some form of dementia, e.g., Alzheimers Disease, and most of
the policies exclude "mental illness". Since dementias generally result from some form of physical deterioration of the
brain, you need to make sure that the policy explicitly covers dementia. Second, since most of us have many years to
prepare for such an event, it is more prudent for us to invest our own money to cover the likelihood of such a risk.
Third, even if you don't have nursing home insurance, Medicaid will cover the expenses. Granted, this requires that
most of a person's assets be already gone, but there is no requirement that heirs be provided for. Besides, a person
with foresight enough to consider nursing home insurance can use early gifting to those future heirs and/or a
non-revocable trust (which must be effective at least 3 years prior to the disablement).

This is the misinformation I was discussing.

Can I come out now?
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Hey Foxy,

I was referring to a post regarding LTC policies that don't cover mental or organic brain issues.
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This is the misinformation I was discussing.

Can I come out now?


jasmada,
Congratulations! This is the first logical post I've seen from you in quite a while.
Thanks,
Ron W.
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I sincerely hope that most Fools on this board bypass
JASMADA's posts or just read them for humor. It seems
evident that this person is an insurance agent and has a vested interest in attempting to ridicule and belittle anyone disagreeing that LTC insurance is God's gift to retirees.

The best instrument to ensure protection is a non-revocable "LIVING" trust. I encourage anyone who is concerned to consult an ELDER CARE ATTORNEY (I am not one) for information. In most cases all assets are protected and still Medicaid eligable.

I'm sure this post will be bad mouthed as others have been. Just remember - don't let scare tactics/fear dictate how you react. Perform your due dilligence by investigating and making an informed decision.
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aok725,
The best instrument to ensure protection is a non-revocable "LIVING" trust. I encourage anyone who is concerned to consult an ELDER CARE ATTORNEY (I am not one) for information. In most cases all assets are protected and still Medicaid eligable.

My thoughts exactly, but not sure about the non-revocable part, what's the benefit there?
Also, What state are you in? (I checked your blank profile).

Ron W.
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Re: Non Revocable Living Trust

This is commonly referred to as an Irrevocable Living Trust.

I am not an attorney. I repeat I am not an attorney.

This means that you relinquish control of your "things" to a trustee. Do you understand "relinquish" ? Generally happens when someone wants to use welfare so they fake poverty by giving up their things in this form of a trust. I had advised a client who did this with his "trusted" son, problem, son was sued in a big time legal matter and his wife left him, the court saw that he had substantial assets....oooopppps That is my dads trust he says so he can get welfare when he needs long term care....court says thats fine but its in your name.....we'll take that to settle the suit and the wife ....thanks so much..have a nice day. No dad is really poor, really poor and now he can actually, legitimately go on medicaid because he is poor. And the worst part, his attorney got 1800 dollars to draft that crap. Get an irrevocable today and ten years from now when you need care and the law changes and your attorney is dead, in jail or in bermuda what are you going to do....sue him ? sue the state for ripping you off when you were trying to rip them off first...? Better think twice about this one. No on second thought you can have a policy that is so much less complicated. Oh and one more thing I forgot to mention look back period.....oooopppppsssss!
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I sincerely hope that most Fools on this board bypass
JASMADA's posts or just read them for humor. (ignore it and the problem will go away) It seems
evident that this person is an insurance agent (yes I am, good job in reading my profile) and has a vested interest ( I do this on my own time for free, people worked hard for their money and I do not want to see them blow it) in attempting to ridicule and belittle anyone (educate, humor, amuse and tell the truth..it will set you free)
disagreeing that LTC insurance is God's gift to retirees. (no it is not, however, your bank account is and without LTC insurance and a good stroke or two your bank account and all those stocks and bonds will be your gift to long term care services)

The best instrument to ensure protection is a non-revocable "LIVING" trust. (bad advice from a non-attorney, most long term care is custodial in nature, by doing this you are begging to be put into a nursing home and never come out, don't you like being in your home right now ?) I encourage anyone who is concerned
to consult an ELDER CARE ATTORNEY (Harley Gordon, Boston Mass. and elder Law Attorney who has written the following book, How to protect your lifes savings from catastrophic health loss) for information. In most cases all assets are protected and still Medicaid eligable.(in other words your assets will be hidden from the government if only you could predict when you need long term care darn except for that look back period, what if it happens a year after you do the trust, this is a bad idea for procrastinators)

I'm sure this post will be bad mouthed as others have been. (nope, just shown the proper information) Just remember - don't let scare tactics/fear (or the truth, remember many people are WWII vets who stormed the beach at Normandie) dictate how you react. Perform your due dilligence by investigating and making an informed decision.(in other words take your time what is the worst that can happen ?)
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Jasmada sez:

<<...most long term care is custodial in nature...>>

Oh really? Maybe it is in your view, but that largely depends on how you define LTC. By most LTC definitions, though, that remark is totally inaccurate and another misleading datum fostered by the industry. The truth is most LTC is for assistance in one or more of the ADLs and IADLs provided at home on a far less than 24-hour basis. Indeed, much of it comes through help in transportation, housework, cooking and bathing. In many other respects, the recipient is independent, and often ineligible for benefits due to tight trigger points in many LTC policies. If you truly think otherwise, then may I suggest you read the literature starting with that I cited in the column.

Note that I am not suggesting people forego LTC insurance. As I have said repeatedly, that's a personal decision. Recognize, though, that LTC is a broad definition and does not mean custodial care only. Your hype demeans your arguments, some of which are valid yet denigrated by your blind passion. Tone down the tenor of your remarks and perhaps you will be heard more clearly.

Regards..Pixy
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My wife just retired at age 56 and has purchased long term health care. I retired several years ago and am now 64 and considering purchasing coverage. David Baze's article opens many questions to my purchase which would be much more expensive than my wife's and apparantly, much less valuable. Are there any statistics on the use of HOME health care by men and women who qualify for assistance with several of the daily life activities?

I expect to remain at home should alzheimers or another ailment strike and require home care. My younger wife should probably outlive me.
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Greetings, Scovey, and welcome. You asked:

<<My wife just retired at age 56 and has purchased long term health care. I retired several years ago and am now 64 and considering purchasing coverage. David Baze's article opens many questions to my purchase which would be much more expensive than my wife's and apparantly, much less valuable. Are there any statistics on the use of HOME health care by men and women who qualify for assistance with several of the daily life activities?

I expect to remain at home should alzheimers or another ailment strike and require home care. My younger wife should probably outlive me.>>


The AARP report "Midlife and Older Americans With Disabilities" at Greetings, Scovey, and welcome. You asked:

<<My wife just retired at age 56 and has purchased long term health care. I retired several years ago and am now 64 and considering purchasing coverage. David Baze's article opens many questions to my purchase which would be much more expensive than my wife's and apparantly, much less valuable. Are there any statistics on the use of HOME health care by men and women who qualify for assistance with several of the daily life activities?

I expect to remain at home should alzheimers or another ailment strike and require home care. My younger wife should probably outlive me.>>


The AARP report "Midlife and Older Americans With Disabilities" I referenced in the column will give you a good indication of that. Check out the link and view it online or download it at http://research.aarp.org/il/d16883_midlife.html.

Regards..Pixy
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<<When jasmada says, "This is a shining example of misinformation"; which one of his prior posts is he referring to?>>

Shining example? Seems like more credit then he is due! I thank the Fool who taught me what clicking on the sour face above would do. I feel I get more objective information in less time now.

Great article David!

HaGD, L2
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Scovey;
I expect to remain at home should alzheimers or another ailment strike and require home care. My younger wife should probably outlive me.

This may not be a viable plan. I have a neighbor, the husband recently developed alzhimers, it became so bad that his wife, only a few years younger, could not keep/control him at home. Fortunately, she was able to get LTC insurance before he was diagnosed with dementia, I think by the skin of their teeth. He is now in a full time care center and she visits regularly. Sad, but true.

I recommend you have a 'Plan B' in place, just in case.

Ron W.
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Note that I am not suggesting people forego LTC insurance. (hmmm, do you really mean that because I did not see that statement in your articles) As I have said repeatedly, that's a personal (and financial) decision.
Recognize, though, that LTC is a broad definition and does not mean custodial care only.(then why do all of your statistics point to "nursing home stays and your accusations about passionate people describe scaring the elderly ?) Your hype (no hype here it is straight facts, people are living longer and will be able to live longer on fewer adl's) demeans your arguments (better put as defense of and support for privatization of long term care taking it out of the hands of the states, attorneys and the federal government), some of which are valid (they're all valid) yet denigrated by your blind passion (you forgot devotion, dedication and belief through actual "real" people not just AARP). Tone down the tenor of your remarks (why should I ? ) and
perhaps you will be heard more clearly (Im not trying to sell anything here so I am not concerned with being heard or understood, people should already know what to do).
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Note that I am not suggesting people forego LTC insurance. (hmmm, do you really mean that because I did not see that statement in your articles) As I have said repeatedly, that's a personal (and financial) decision.
Recognize, though, that LTC is a broad definition and does not mean custodial care only.(then why do all of your statistics point to "nursing home stays and your accusations about passionate people describe scaring the elderly ?) Your hype (no hype here it is straight facts, people are living longer and will be able to live longer on fewer adl's) demeans your arguments (better put as defense of and support for privatization of long term care taking it out of the hands of the states, attorneys and the federal government), some of which are valid (they're all valid) yet denigrated by your blind passion (you forgot devotion, dedication and belief through actual "real" people not just AARP). Tone down the tenor of your remarks (why should I ? ) and
perhaps you will be heard more clearly (Im not trying to sell anything here so I am not concerned with being heard as this is a "no brainer", people should already know what to do they just use articles like the ones posted to have an excuse not to take action because "so and so said").
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My wife just retired at age 56 and has purchased long term health care. (good for her what a wise decision) I retired several years ago and am now 64
and considering purchasing coverage (try to purchase with the company that covers her so that you can get the spousal discount make sure it is retroactive in nature). David Baze's article opens many questions to my purchase which would be
much more expensive (not terribly approx. 15% more if it is with a reputable company) than my wife's and apparantly, much less valuable (not at all you always have control over the plan you choose based on your health and finances, you are no less important and cannot control what type of care "if any" that you will need). Are there any statistics on the use of
HOME health care by men and women who qualify for assistance with several of the daily life activities?(this is a good but not so important statistic do not let this be the dictator for protecting your assets what you have to ask yourself is will the plan that my wife has and the one that I choose protect our assets so that we can accomplish our goals) Do not let statistics be the cause of you purchasing or not purchasing coverage)

I expect to remain at home should alzheimers or another ailment strike and require home care. ( or just hanging christmas lights with a faulty ladder or hosing down the roof of the motorhome or cleaning the patio) My younger wife should probably outlive me (the statistics usually point in that direction).
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For L2J
<<When jasmada says, "This is a shining example of misinformation"; which one of his prior posts is he referring to?>> ( I am referring to a post that said an irrevocable trust would protect your assets and then you could just go on medicaid, unfortunately "real" poor people cannot afford attorney's to do their paperwork for them and therefore are burdening states and the federal system with claims that could be afforded by those wealthy people it is often called last minute planning and getting the tax payers to pay your bill because you did'nt think you needed long term care......eventually people the money is going to run out and the handouts will be gone...so....plan ahead)

Shining example? Seems like more credit then he is due! (this was my term not one given to me) I thank the Fool who taught me what clicking on the sour
face above would do (ignore it and it will go away?). I feel I get more objective information (all information is objective we do not ask for credit card numbers here on the fool) in less time now.
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Scovey;
I expect to remain at home should alzheimers or another ailment strike and require home care. My younger wife should probably outlive me.

This may not be a viable plan.( you are right there) I have a neighbor, the husband recently developed alzhimers, it became so bad that
his wife, only a few years younger, could not keep/control him at home. ( I have a client near Sun City who has her husband in a lock down board and care at $2700/month, that is coming right out of the old money market account, a check one right after the other month after month) Fortunately, she was able to get LTC
insurance (good call there) before he was diagnosed with dementia, I think by the skin of their teeth. (can you imagine having premiums for this rediculous insurance ?) He is now in a full time care
center (oh well maybe not so rediculous all of those premiums came back in about 9 months time I bet) and she visits regularly. Sad, but true.

I recommend you have a 'Plan B' in place, just in case. )great recommendation sounds to me like your selling something)

Great Post

Jim Adams
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lakerc writes :

Wrt the cute comment by Jasmada, I checked his profile, and noticed that he is an "Advisor" ( I also sell, counsel, educate, write and speak) for Long Term Care
Insurance (and elder care, abuse against the elderly and the future aging population). Now I understand why he didn't like my post ( I like everyone's post here there is nothing better than misinformation and rumor, speculation and outright denial not to mention an over abused public system). Not to worry, Jasmada, there are plenty (more than just plenty ....sparky) of folks for you to "advise". Most of them aren't reading TMF (apparently you have not been checking my e mail :) ).
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Jasmada,

No Jim, I'm not selling anything. But I can see instances where LTC insurance is the best answer, this happened to be one of them, I simply shared a situation which I knew first hand, and also one between-the-lines suggestion: If you have a family history of dimensia, or suspect you or your spouse are showing early signs, get your LTC insurance in place BEFORE being formally diagnosed.

I hope that post made up for the errant jasmada poll. :-)

Ron W.
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WauseonFox Date: 2/23/00 2:36 PM Number: 2459
----------------------------------------------------

<<When jasmada says, "This is a shining example of misinformation"; which one of his prior posts is he referring to?>>

Oh, that was a good one!

Funny, and also instructive, because it points out the difficulty of everyone understanding to what on earth a particular comment refers.

If we all followed the practice of at least identifying the post we are responding to and perhaps quoting that particular part we are talking about, it would make things easier for everyone.

DHatch

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jasmada Date: 2/24/00 12:51 AM Number: 2493
--------------------------------------------------

<<I am not an attorney. I repeat I am not an attorney.>>

You are an alarmist. You are an alarmist.

DHatch

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jasmada Date: 2/24/00 10:09 PM Number: 2512
--------------------------------------------------

<<(Im not trying to sell anything here so I am not concerned with being heard or understood, people should already know what to do).>>

You are a misleading ego-centric ingrate without the ability to even comprehend that someone was trying to help you.

DHatch

P.S. Please do be certain to provide your complete name and address to all of your "prospects".

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" My younger wife should probably outlive me (the statistics usually point in that direction)."

Have you heard why men usually die before women?

It's because we want to! :^)

Ron W. (Educate, Amuse & Enrich)
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