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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 63284  
Subject: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/21/2011 1:26 PM
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"Government number-crunchers say President Barack Obama's health care law would let several million middle-class people get nearly free coverage by making them eligible for the Medicaid program for the poor.

The result was discovered by Medicare officials who make long-range cost estimates, after the law was signed.

It would affect about 3 million early retirees. A married couple with an annual income of $64,000 could still get Medicaid. That's because starting in 2014, their Social Security benefits would no longer count as income."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110621/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_hea...

------

Wow...that means that early retirees like intercst will only have to limit their income to 32K 'taxable' to get free health care!....what a deal.

It means that more than 3 million will retire early...heck, with free health care, a lot more...maybe 10-20 million , will bail out early..... scrape by till SS age.....

or in the Obama depression, they might not have a choice.

The states will go bankrupt even faster with an incompetent boob in the White House ...who can't even pass a decent bill...Oh, right...Pelosi and all the dems didn't even read it before they passed it at 3am on xmas eve before they bailed out of town!

Now that it is passed we get to find out what is in it. And how bad it it is.



t.
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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34791 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/21/2011 2:21 PM
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telegraph complains,

It means that more than 3 million will retire early...heck, with free health care, a lot more...maybe 10-20 million , will bail out early..... scrape by till SS age.....

</snip>


...and that means 3 million jobs for the unemployed -- looks like a win for everyone.

intercst

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34792 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/21/2011 4:57 PM
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"..and that means 3 million jobs for the unemployed -- looks like a win for everyone."


Not necessarily...unless you think all those 50-60 year old retirees are a baristas or say 'Would you like fries with that'?


The US companies are complaining that there are 3 million unfilled jobs.....because they can't find qualified people to fill them.


THose lib arts type aren't going to find engineering or technical or other jobs with actual skills.


You make it seem that we simply assign random bodies to jobs...a typical ignorant lib plan.

There are openings now for machinists and computer scientists and engineers and programmers with actual job experience and skills, and for hundreds of specialized jobs.

THose lib arts types graduating have no hope of much more than 'Would you like fries with that' in this economy.

Most retiring early will be the smarter types with job skills.....


t.




t.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34794 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/21/2011 11:13 PM
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<<It means that more than 3 million will retire early...heck, with free health care, a lot more...maybe 10-20 million , will bail out early..... scrape by till SS age.....

</snip>

...and that means 3 million jobs for the unemployed -- looks like a win for everyone.

intercst >>



Labor is an absolutely necessary asset for any economy. Even socialist used to be aware that "without our blood and muscle not a single wheel would turn."

Now the left wing provides substantial incentives for highly skilled people to quit working, rather than incentives to keep working and providing needed services.

Early retirement is a luxury for those who can afford it, but it is a loss for the economy as a whole.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34795 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/21/2011 11:39 PM
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SeattlePioneer analyzes,

Now the left wing provides substantial incentives for highly skilled people to quit working, rather than incentives to keep working and providing needed services.

Early retirement is a luxury for those who can afford it, but it is a loss for the economy as a whole.


One of the reasons Social Security was enacted in 1935 was to ease older people out of the workforce and provide jobs for younger folks. Otherwise you'd end up with a large cadre of unemployed young adults with a lot of free time on their hands. Nothing good comes from that.

Older folks with free time on their hands won't cause as much chaos and damage.

intercst

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34796 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/21/2011 11:51 PM
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<<Early retirement is a luxury for those who can afford it, but it is a loss for the economy as a whole.

One of the reasons Social Security was enacted in 1935 was to ease older people out of the workforce and provide jobs for younger folks. Otherwise you'd end up with a large cadre of unemployed young adults with a lot of free time on their hands. Nothing good comes from that.

Older folks with free time on their hands won't cause as much chaos and damage.

intercst >>


intercst, I'm surprised to hear this kind of analysis from someone as sophisticated as you.


The economy took a hit when your retired at a young age from your career as an engineer. You benefited by gaining personal freedom and liberty, but the economy lost the benefit of your professional skills.

Most of the people who are going to be in a financial position to retire early are going to be skilled people the economy will not replace easily. That will cost us as a society.

Personally, I wouldn't penalize people who are able to retire early and choose to do so ----neither would I give them incentives to do so.



<<One of the reasons Social Security was enacted in 1935 was to ease older people out of the workforce and provide jobs for younger folks.>>


This was foolish then just as it's foolish now. And worse, even if the cost of people taking retirement was lower during the depression, SS established incentives to retire for the next 75 years --- including many periods of labor shortage when those extra hands were badly needed by the economy. SS caused labor force participation rates among the elderly to plummet --- and that cost the economy hugely over the decades.

If people can afford to retire ---- fine. Giving skilled and experienced people INCENTIVES to retire is foolish and counterproductive to the economy.

In particular, we should be furrowing our brows to figure out how to keep the boomer generation working as long as they are willing.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34798 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 12:58 AM
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Methinks that very few of the 3 million will retire early. It is likely they will be forced to work well into their 70s.

http://www.retirement-income.net/blog/retirement-savings-sta...

The “baby boomer” generation are those people 45 and 62 years of age (as of 2008). This generation has saved on the average retirement savings of $38,000, excluding pensions, homes, and social security. However, “baby boomers” with qualified retirement plans has an average retirement savings of $88,000. The $88,000 of average retirement savings will generate an annual retirement income of about $5,000 yearly. Not many people would be satisfied with this level of retirement income.

The above article was written in 2008. It is likely boomer retirement savings are lower than the numbers cited.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34799 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 8:07 AM
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"One of the reasons Social Security was enacted in 1935 was to ease older people out of the workforce and provide jobs for younger folks. "


With the average person in 1935 collecting for all of 18 months after retiring at 65, that didn't provide a lot of jobs.

Back then, at 65, most people were in sad shape.........

They didn't have good arthritis drugs and all the other things we take for granted. They didn't do hip replacements and even have oxygen systems for home use.

I really doubt SS got many people out of the workforce.

Now, WW2 did eliminate over 30 million worldwide, took another 10 million or more away from work in factories.....and finally got us to full employment. After nearly 10 years of FDR Depression brought about by SOCIALIST policies....... the same that Obama spouts...


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34800 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 8:14 AM
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About 25-20% of boomers likely have nice fat defined benefit pension plans and will be fine.

A couple who maxed out on SS, even with no savings, will clear 50K a year in SS benefits if they retire at 'normal retirement age' - likely 66 or so for most boomers. That ain't chicken feed.

If they have any other pensions.....gravy on top of that.

If they downsize their CA or NY or CT or MA home, move to FL and buy a home for 1/3rd the price, they'll put another couple hundred thousand in the bank.

At least half the boomers will be in good shape.

Another significant percentage will have some military pay perhaps from the Vietnam War era or Veterans benefits.

Then there are the 1/3rd to 1/2 who will be clueless....and will be Walmart greeters or work part time to supplement their income. So? Been going on for decades and decades.


My grandfather worked part time just to occupy his time. His favorite job was taking tickets in a movie theater. Got to meet lots of folks, worked there for 8 years, knew everyone......and got to see the movies for free when not working. A few blocks from his house so he walked there and back. This 30 years ago.

t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34801 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 8:30 AM
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Chuckle chuckle.....I'm really not surprised that SOME here think that you OWE your labor and thinking to 'society' for the 'benefit' of the collective.

When did things change? Did liberalism even infect SP and others?

I thought as Americans we had the FREEDOM to do what we wanted?


We had the freedom to choose our job (as opposed to the commie way where you were usually assigned a job for life or as 'needed' by the collective.

As far as I am concerned, as long as you are responsible for yourself (and your bills0, you have the FREEDOM to do whatever you want.

YOu don't 'owe' the collective (society) anything. You don't owe them your labor or your brain power.

If you want to sit around like Socrates and come up with great philosophical thoughts, great...... you don't even have to publish them.

If you want to sit around with the 'wise men' and yak all day, fine.

If you want to buy 20 acres in MT, build your own cabin, hunt and fish off your land and grow your veggies, fine.

Unlike some here who think the COLLECTIVE demands your work and brain power, I totally disagree.

If you want to retire at age 50, great. That is the American Way - just pay your own way and don't be a MOOCHER. Or a TAKER from those still working.

Where did this board go wrong thinking it was a 'crime' to 'deprive' the 'collective' of your hard work?


t.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34803 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 12:23 PM
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The US companies are complaining that there are 3 million unfilled jobs.....because they can't find qualified people to fill them.
THose lib arts type aren't going to find engineering or technical or other jobs with actual skills.


Plenty of Boomer Americans with ACTUAL SKILLS are looking for work. COmpanies want 'em young and easily cowed.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34804 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 12:25 PM
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With the average person in 1935 collecting for all of 18 months after retiring at 65

I don;t have time for The Google right now, but a few days ago I read that the average SS recipint in 1950 collected for 15 years and the average recipient in ?2000? 2010?? collected for 19 years. The difference is far less than supposed.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34805 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 12:34 PM
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A couple who maxed out on SS, even with no savings, will clear 50K a year in SS benefits if they retire at 'normal retirement age'

What does that represent--maybe 5% of Boomers, tops? More likely less. Neither my husband nor I maxed out SS and we made a lot more than most people.

If they downsize their CA or NY or CT or MA home, move to FL and buy a home for 1/3rd the price, they'll put another couple hundred thousand in the bank.

Yeah, in 2005 ;-)
Seriously, most people want to stay near friends & family. Me, I wanna be near my grandson.

At least half the boomers will be in good shape.

Links? IIRC, about a quarter will be in very good or great shape, another half will be more or less OK if they get what's comin' to 'em, and the bottom quarter will be in tough shape. If they cut SS across the board, many will starve or become homeless, just as they did before SS was enacted. And there are d@mn few SRO fleabag hotels anymore where such folks used to live, in cities anyhow.

My grandfather worked part time just to occupy his time. His favorite job was taking tickets in a movie theater. Got to meet lots of folks, worked there for 8 years, knew everyone......and got to see the movies for free when not working. A few blocks from his house so he walked there and back. This 30 years ago.

Recent college grads are taking many of these jobs these days. Me, I may be a volunteer usher/info desk aide at arts organizations when my heavy babysitting days are behind me.

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34807 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 1:18 PM
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telegraph lies:

With the average person in 1935 collecting for all of 18 months after retiring at 65

alstromeria responds:

I don;t have time for The Google right now, but a few days ago I read that the average SS recipint in 1950 collected for 15 years and the average recipient in ?2000? 2010?? collected for 19 years. The difference is far less than supposed.

You're correct. Telegraph's lie has been debunked about ten times already on this board, but he still keeps repeating it. In 1940, the average life expectancy at age 65 was 12.7 years for males and 14.7 years for females. In 1990, it was 15.3 and 19.6 years, respectively.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/lifeexpect.html

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34808 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 1:18 PM
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http://www.mybudget360.com/how-much-does-the-average-america...


"As you can see from the above chart, only 17.8% of all U.S. households make more than $118,200 a year. "


Of course, senior folks tend to make more than newbies just starting out in the work force...

SO I'd venture that probably 25% of families in their 50s make more than that.....

And will be collecting some nice SS payments when they retire.

Add in pensions that many still have (feds, local/state gov't, companies) and you have maybe half in reasonably good shape.

By the time my parents retired, I had never lived within 500 miles, and my sister had moved 250 miles away and then were fairly happy to sell the NJ house in high tax NJ, and spent six months up in NY state and six months in FL, their 'tax home'.

By the time my dad retired, there wasn't much of the family still living there.

With $10,000 and $15,000 and even higher real estate tax bills in MA, NJ, and similar places (suburban Washington DC)....it sure makes sense to downsize to a house with $3000 a year real estate taxes!.....

No, the working folks aren't going to pay for your house with $15,000 tax bills......as part of your 'retirement'. SOrry....


YOu aren't entitled to that.


t.




t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34809 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 1:28 PM
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"You're correct. Telegraph's lie has been debunked about ten times already on this board, but he still keeps repeating it. In 1940, the average life expectancy at age 65 was 12.7 years for males and 14.7 years for females. In 1990, it was 15.3 and 19.6 years, respectively."

Great, but what percentage of the folks made it to 65?

Lots were dead long before they collected, but they paid in for 20-30-40 years, then croaked before actually being able to retire.

You have 'survivor bias'...

If you were born in 1900, your life expectancy was 48 years!

http://demog.berkeley.edu/~andrew/1918/figure2.html

If you were born before 1900...like 1885, to be 65 in 1950.....more than half of folks would have been dead for 15 years before they would have reached retirement age.....

Actually, the life expectancy of someone born in 1880 was 40 years.

nice graph here

http://pages.uoregon.edu/maphist/english/US/US39-01.html




Which means half the folks never made it to 1950 to even retire early !.....


If you were born in 1960, you had a life expectancy of 65+ years...... 17 years longer!..... and the average person would collect SS...barely...but they would pay in.....half would collect....statistically.....


t

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Author: lindytoes Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34810 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 1:56 PM
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With the average person in 1935 collecting for all of 18 months after retiring at 65
------------------
I don;t have time for The Google right now, but a few days ago I read that the average SS recipint in 1950 collected for 15 years and the average recipient in ?2000? 2010?? collected for 19 years. The difference is far less than supposed.
---------------
My father collected social security for one month. It's possible my stepmother collected on his account for about 4 years but then she died.

My mother never collected any...but her two youngest collected a bit before they turned 22 (that program has changed to 18 I think).

My husband never collected any social security and no one may be able to get anything from his account (I am not qualified).

Some people put into the system and never get anything or hardly anything back. It just works like that.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34812 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 2:24 PM
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My dad retired and collected SS till almost 72. Not even 7 years.

Now, mom collected till she was almost 82. 17 years.


My dad had an Uncle. He died at 56 years after working 38 years. Never collected a dime.

Now, my Uncle Bill is 90 and he's been collecting a while. He's the exception. Everyone else in the family died in their 60s...other than 2 who made it to 72 or so.




t.

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Author: temsike Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34814 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 3:35 PM
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You're correct. Telegraph's lie has been debunked about ten times already on this board, but he still keeps repeating it. In 1940, the average life expectancy at age 65 was 12.7 years for males and 14.7 years for females. In 1990, it was 15.3 and 19.6 years, respectively.

The nasty old man can't help himself. It's the cut of his jib.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34816 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 3:43 PM
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<<Chuckle chuckle.....I'm really not surprised that SOME here think that you OWE your labor and thinking to 'society' for the 'benefit' of the collective.

When did things change? Did liberalism even infect SP and others? >>



Oh, heaven forfend!


I'm simply saying that labor is an asset to the economy, early retirement or retirement at all is not.


If you can afford to retire early, that's one of our liberties. But I see no reason to give incentives for people to drop out of the labor force.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34818 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 4:43 PM
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"You're correct. Telegraph's lie has been debunked about ten times already on this board, but he still keeps repeating it. In 1940, the average life expectancy at age 65 was 12.7 years for males and 14.7 years for females. In 1990, it was 15.3 and 19.6 years, respectively."


You forget that the average life expectancy meant that half the folks wouldn't even make it to 65

In 1880, the life expectancy was 40 years! Yeah, a few lived to 65, and of those a few more lived to 75. But not many. But if you lived to 65, you might live another 7 years? so what? Only a few in a hundred made it to 65.


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34819 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 4:47 PM
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SP:"I'm simply saying that labor is an asset to the economy, early retirement or retirement at all is not."


Well, we could go on for example after example.

For example, intercst is helping ruin the US economy by taking most of his trips overseas. That is not helping the US economy. He is not an asset to the US economy.

Should we therefore un-incentivize him from taking so many foreign trips? or simply block him? Yank his passport? Yank all passports for 'recreational travel' outside the country?


Big brother knows best.

Once you let him start running your life, deciding you can't retire because 'your work is an asset to the economy'...etc..... you've gone over the slippery slope.

t.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34827 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 7:55 PM
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My dad retired and collected SS till almost 72. Not even 7 years.
Now, mom collected till she was almost 82. 17 years.


More anecdata...my Dad collected till just shy of his 88th birthday, Mom is still collecting at 85, my maternal grandparents collected till 93 (each)--but not much as he was a common laborer, paternal grandmother died at 61 and grandfather at 81. (My ex's father recently passed away at 102, but he was collecting Massachusetts teacher's pension, not SS.)

DD & SIL are gonna pay me $1000/month for babysitting next year and will have to spring for SS and Medicare (me, too). Guess I'll be wiping out a couple of those zero years on my SS sheet...maybe net me a couple a bucks a month after I file ;-)

=alstro, breathless from my day out with 5 female members of my family. We went to a Broadway show, a fabulous revival of Anything Goes (the lead actress, Sutton Foster in the role that Ethel Merman made famous, won the Tony this year) featuring great songs by Cole Porter like "You're the Top," "I Get a Kick Out of You," "Blow Gabriel Blow" and of course, "Anything Goes." Great dancing and the jokes were funny, too. Then early supper at a French bistro, after which DD & I strode up Broadway right through crowded Times Square to catch the subway at 59th St. Only exercise I got today besides some packing this morning (we vacate in 6 days and are spending a few of them in Montauk, starting tomorrow, and the tenant from whom I'm subletting is painting the joint while we're in Montauk)...

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Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 8:13 PM
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I remember riding NYC subways when I worked there during June, July and August....back in about 1966........

Hot, muggy, crowded, sweaty subways..... 100 degrees out on the streets with the a/c units blowing hot air in your face....... lots of pollution from buses and cars, and incessant noise. People always in a hurry. Dirty sidewalks, dirty streets.


I rode the bus in through the Lincoln tunnel to 42nd street and took the subway...usually to 59th street, then walked to the office at 57th street. On the way home, took the subway up to 175th street, hopped a bus over the GW bridge.

Come 5pm and I was headed home. NO reason to stay in hot NYC.

t

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Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/22/2011 9:24 PM
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We went to a Broadway show, a fabulous revival of Anything Goes (the lead actress, Sutton Foster in the role that Ethel Merman made famous, won the Tony this year) featuring great songs by Cole Porter like "You're the Top," "I Get a Kick Out of You," "Blow Gabriel Blow" and of course, "Anything Goes." Great dancing and the jokes were funny, too.

----------------

that sounds great....I would have loved it. I have actually been listening to a lot of music from 40s, 50s, 60s....have two new used CDs by Rod Stewart singing stuff like that...he does a great job.

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34839 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/23/2011 12:14 AM
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Otherwise you'd end up with a large cadre of unemployed young adults with a lot of free time on their hands. Nothing good comes from that.

I'm currently taking a class about the Arab revolutions. ALL of them had a large cadre of unemployed young adults.

Vickifool

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34843 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/23/2011 8:01 AM
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Hot, muggy, crowded, sweaty subways..... 100 degrees out on the streets with the a/c units blowing hot air in your face....... lots of pollution from buses and cars, and incessant noise. People always in a hurry. Dirty sidewalks, dirty streets.

It's SO different now, thank goodness. If I forget a sweater, I can freeze on the subways and buses in the summer-it's delicious (some of the stations aren't so well chilled, though). I'm not usually on transit during rush hour, but I've rarely needed to stand except when I volunteer my seat to someone who looks older than me, disabled or pregnant. (Now that my back is stronger from so much city walking and baby toting*, I don't feel disabled any more myself!). And there's MUCH less pollution coz the NYC Dept of Public Health and local version of EPA have made drastic changes such as the natural gas-powered bus fleet and many city vehicles, also Prius taxis--next up for pollution control is the garbage truck fleet. The people of NYC are among the slimmest and healthiest in the country these days. But I can remember blowing soot-infused snot onto my handkerchief back in the 60s. And subways could be beastly in the 70s. No more.

* I also credit some of my miraculous cure of joint & back pain to switching to Minami Cardi-O3 fish oil (higher dosage and much more expensive than my old brand, but I pay gladly because I feel the difference in my knees, feet, and hands). Taking the more effective & expensive OsteoPRIME vs old brand of calcium helps, too--even though it has less calcium, it has more trace minerals plus B vitamins. TO save money I buy the fish oil online from iHerb and the calcium from Vitacost.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34844 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/23/2011 8:04 AM
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Linda, if you google for "youtube 'anything goes' 'sutton foster' " or names of songs from the show and Sutton Foster, you can find rehearsals and performances complete with dancing. I showed my husband and he really liked it.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34846 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/23/2011 8:20 AM
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incessant noise. People always in a hurry. Dirty sidewalks, dirty streets.

Forgot to address these issues. It's now illegal to honk a car horn except in an emergency (no honking due simply to heavy traffic). Most days I never hear a siren, even in the distance. People are not always in a hurry (in fact I find myself passing them on the sidewalk routinely), but then I'm rarely in the financial district (never during this whole 6 months) or in midtown at rush hour (although I was yesterday after the show). Times Square was very crowded, but it was our choice to walk through it.

I hear no street noise from my tenement that faces the back courtyard and not that much from DD's apartment that faces the street on the 5th floor. I used to be kinda cranky about noise (a side-effect of Chronic Lyme Disease), but it isn;t bothering me now. It seems more annoying to me in the burbs, maybe because it'ss startling there.

Each street is cleaned twice a week and building owners clean the sidewalks in front of their buildings. It's clean enough even in Harlem, and cleaner in other parts of the city. I'd much rather walk in Manhattan than Charleston--those quaint but bumpy sidewalks are a menace to the unwary. Not much to trip on in Manhattan.

When I commuted to Boston from Cambridge on public transit in the 70s, I found it wearing and wearying. Perhaps it's the going to work that's to blame?!

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34863 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/23/2011 4:31 PM
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THose lib arts type aren't going to find engineering or technical or other jobs with actual skills.

Good grief, man, everyone doesn;t have to fit into your narrow definition of "actual skills"!

As I've said a bazillion times, my son & his girlfriend make above-average livings as a science teacher and phys ed teacher/outdoor recreation leader. My nephew makes a very good living as a film & TV editor, and directs & produces indie shorts on the side. My niece does web design, ad campaigns and other commercial and corporate design work, teaching history of typography and graphic design, and more. Another "niece" (actually my cousin from the late-in-life marriage of my uncle to a woman just 5 yrs my senior) does freelance PR, events, and marketing--she has the creativity, smarts, and organizational skills to produce anything (plus she looks like a model-). None of them need parental support and they range in age from 28 to 35.

My sister-in-law is a truly fantastic artist (shows at galleries and sells her work), although years ago she did freelance accounting and financial planning (mostly for my brother's dental practice and to manage their own wealth). My brother, who retired from dentistry when he went blind in his 50s, is a paid backup musician for blues, rock, and jazz artists and has a pretty nifty home sound studio where he does his own mixing. We're currently at a family gathering chez Bro.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34902 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/24/2011 3:59 AM
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has been debunked about ten times already on this board, but he still keeps repeating



well, it isn't exactly polite to 'debunk' someone's stuff on their own personal board.



=
...

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34904 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/24/2011 7:17 AM
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Forgot to mention that my brother is a Phi Beta Kappa graduate with honors in Philosophy. After college he lived on a commune and played in a band for a few years, then went to dental school. Oh, and I bet he's wealthier than anybody on this board (although he describes himself as "comfortable"--probably because he knows very VERY wealthy people...at the moment my niece is dating the son of an inventor who has a collection of 30 expensive cars :-/

=alstro, in one of several guest rooms in his 4500 sq ft house with large art & music studios a block from the beach near the Hamptons...feeling very relaxed after spending an hour in his hot tub before turning in around midnight last night...they are genuinely puzzled by my lack of ambition, though not my lack of materialism ;-) ah, my SIL is fixing my coffee before heading to the art gallery where she will be showing next week...I'll be meeting her there later before picking up DD, DSIL, DS & DGS at the train station...flurry of busyness!

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34906 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/24/2011 9:11 AM
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lindylib: "Oh, and I bet he's wealthier than anybody on this board (although he describes himself as "comfortable"--probably because he knows very VERY wealthy people...at the moment my niece is dating the son of an inventor who has a collection of 30 expensive cars :-/

=alstro, in one of several guest rooms in his 4500 sq ft house with large art & music studios a block from the beach near the Hamptons...feeling very relaxed after spending an hour in his hot tub before turning in around midnight last night..."


-----

Oh, my goodness, a genuine wealth envy and exhibition of wealth by lindylib!

Obviously, you are not in your normal style. All that wealth should have been confiscated. He should not have been allowed to accumulate it. We should have had 90% tax rates so he would still have to be working and paying taxes for the welfare weenies and queenies so they could live as well as he. His 4500 sq foot mansion should have been confiscated and given to 3 or 4 welfare families to share with their 10 or 15 kids.

Really, you missed out on a typical wealth envy post....for your relative.....

You always criticize the wealthy and it was 'society' and 'infrastructure' that allowed them to make money, so it should be 'grabbed back' and redistributed it...

Except when it is your family... ho ho ho ho


t

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34910 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/24/2011 3:19 PM
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You always criticize the wealthy

Nope. Only when they're selfish, assume they made it entirely on their own, and have little concern for other Americans.

DB & SIL are gracious, fun, talented, good company, liberal voting, generous, and unselfish. SIL works at a cooperative art gallery and DB is president of the local environmental group.

I really appreciate them. He & I fixed lunch together for everyone today (salad & veggie burgers, crackers & hummus). Just got back from shopping for dinner and tomorrow's meals with bro--I insisted upon paying for all of it (but he wouldn't let me buy the wine--said "I've got it covered"). He's now making the clam sauce for dinner, a recipe from his elderly Italian neighbor.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34911 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/24/2011 5:05 PM
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<<You always criticize the wealthy

Nope. Only when they're selfish, assume they made it entirely on their own, and have little concern for other Americans. >>



You'll understand why Conservatives tend towards being unsympathetic to the "poor" who are greedy for subsidies and benefits they never earned, usually poor because of bad habits and bad decisions they made themselves and are frequently self pitying and unwilling to do an honest days pay.

If you screen out those folks there wouldn't be many lining up for the "rich" to subsidize.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34912 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/24/2011 6:15 PM
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"DB & SIL are gracious, fun, talented, good company, liberal voting, generous, and unselfish. SIL works at a cooperative art gallery and DB is president of the local environmental group. "

Obviously you have more than others, so you aren't doing your part or sharing enough. Only when you only have as much as your poorest neighbors are you fulfilling the oblligations of the liberal mindset.

No one can be off enjoying themselves when millions are struggling just to pay the bills, afford the iPhones and cable TV, and can't send junior to Harvard.

How 'elitist' can you be?

You sure aren't sharing enough! I don't care if your family 'earned it'. It is not entitled to it. They used the 'common infrastructure' and benefited from all the services provided by the government, including the defense of their riches, the protection of their property by the police (that 5000 sq foot house) and fire.


Your family should be paying 90% tax rates like after WW2 that the lib dems seem to want until their wealth is reduced to lower middle class level.

t.

t.

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Author: andrew61 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34982 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/28/2011 12:57 AM
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Links? IIRC, about a quarter will be in very good or great shape, another half will be more or less OK if they get what's comin' to 'em, and the bottom quarter will be in tough shape. If they cut SS across the board, many will starve or become homeless, just as they did before SS was enacted. And there are d@mn few SRO fleabag hotels anymore where such folks used to live, in cities anyhow.


There are still some SRO hotels like that here in Chicago, but they tend to be dreadful, dreadful places. And not all that cheap, either, for what they are.

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Author: andrew61 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34983 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/28/2011 1:05 AM
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I remember riding NYC subways when I worked there during June, July and August....back in about 1966........

Hot, muggy, crowded, sweaty subways..... 100 degrees out on the streets with the a/c units blowing hot air in your face....... lots of pollution from buses and cars, and incessant noise. People always in a hurry. Dirty sidewalks, dirty streets.


I rode the bus in through the Lincoln tunnel to 42nd street and took the subway...usually to 59th street, then walked to the office at 57th street. On the way home, took the subway up to 175th street, hopped a bus over the GW bridge.

Come 5pm and I was headed home. NO reason to stay in hot NYC.

t



Good thing you live in the Dallas area now, where it never gets hot! <LOL>

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34985 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/28/2011 3:45 AM
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<<Links? IIRC, about a quarter will be in very good or great shape, another half will be more or less OK if they get what's comin' to 'em, and the bottom quarter will be in tough shape. If they cut SS across the board, many will starve or become homeless, just as they did before SS was enacted. And there are d@mn few SRO fleabag hotels anymore where such folks used to live, in cities anyhow.


There are still some SRO hotels like that here in Chicago, but they tend to be dreadful, dreadful places. And not all that cheap, either, for what they are.>>



Forty years ago I was Democratic Precinct Committeeman for a precinct in downtown Seattle. There were a number of flophouses on the second and third floors of commercial buildings. Most were open spaces subdivided by chicken wire walls that could be rented by people for the night and locked for personal security.

They were clean and looked like basic but acceptable housing to me at the time. Far better than living on the streets or shelters, where most people moved to after Democrats and liberals in city government closed this housing option.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34987 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/28/2011 8:33 AM
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andrew: "Good thing you live in the Dallas area now, where it never gets hot!"

Northern NJ suburbs were not fun in the 60s...not many places had A/C including our house...which had a window unit in the living room (small) ...and I had a window unit later when I was nearly 18...in my room upstairs..which we used sparingly....only at night.......

NYC in the summer months is YUK YUK YUK.....hot , humid and stinking air.....buses, diesel trucks...idling on the street.....sitting in traffic.... yuk yuk.....

Subways...hot...crowded..muggy.....no a/c of course......sweaty.....


You can have NYC in the summer. Way back when , the smart folks took the whole summer off and went up to camps in the Adirondack mountains ......


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 34988 of 63284
Subject: Re: Obama gives retirees free health care Date: 6/28/2011 8:41 AM
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way back when, there were rooming houses....single people would rent a room in a multi-occupancy building....often got at least one meal a day as part of the deal.

Heck I remember in college, there were kids who lived in these places..maybe five or six in an old house (maybe 8 rooms)....had their own room, had kitchen privileges and maybe the owner/landlord lived there and provided breakfast and dinner......

Then the libs came along, outlawed most of those arrangements. YOu needed special licenses for meals (restaurant) and special deals for 'apartments'...so all those inexpensive options disappeared. Oh, yeah, some rooms likely didn't have fire alarms......and didn't have sprinkler systems.....or fire walls between 'units'....gotcha...

All the do gooders ran up the cost of college housing by 50%......

I spent 4 years in the dorms...for 2 1/2 years of them, I ate in a private house...2 meals a day....great food...steak once a week....cheaper than the dining hall, too....20 people ate there...two shifts.....but I'm sure the libs put them out of business...older couple.... probably didn't have all the equipment to meet the 'food standards' of a 'restaurant'..... but the plates were sparkling chean, the food cooked for each meal..but I'm sure the do gooder libs made sure they couldn't operate after I got out of college...

WEll, maybe in the Obama depression we'll go back to that. The Hispanics already have 8 or 10 folks in lots of houses. They are all 'related' so they can stay there. most other places you can't have more than 2 or 'unrelated' folks in any house or apartment..... that's the libs at work....


t.
t.

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