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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1977450  
Subject: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 2:15 PM
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And why not? He couldn't have his "I, Captain Kicka$$, killer of al Qaeda" talking point overcome by actual reality, could he? He had an election to win.

U.S. intelligence told President Barack Obama and senior administration officials within 72 hours of the Benghazi tragedy that the attack was likely carried out by local militia and other armed extremists sympathetic to al-Qaida in the region, officials directly familiar with the information told the Washington Guardian on Friday.

Based on electronic intercepts and human intelligence on the ground, the early briefings after the deadly Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya identified possible organizers and participants. Most were believed to be from a local Libyan militia group called Ansar al-Sharia that is sympathetic to al-Qaida, the official said, while a handful of others was linked to a direct al-Qaida affiliate in North Africa known as AQIM.

Those briefings also raised the possibility that the attackers may have been inspired both by spontaneous protests across the globe on the 11th anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and by a desire to seek vengeance for the U.S. killing last summer of a Libyan-born leader of al-Qaida named Abu Yaya al-Libi, the officials said, speaking only on condition of anonymity because they were discussing intelligence matters.

The details from the CIA and Pentagon assessments of the killing of Ambassador Chris Stephens were far more specific, more detailed and more current than the unclassified talking points that UN Ambassador Susan Rice and other officials used five days after the attack to suggest to Americans that an unruly mob angry over an anti-Islamic video was to blame, officials said.

http://www.washingtonguardian.com/what-obama-knew-benghazi

It's not like this was a big mystery. Obama is a political creature. Always has been, always will be. His political well being - to him - is far and away more important than anything else. That 3AM phone call? Obama picked it up and said, "Sorry! Wrong number!"
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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837804 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 2:27 PM
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"Sorry! Wrong number!"

No, no, no!

He said, "Sorry wrong story, General Patraeus". I got a better one for Rice to tell....

Transparent, not!

99

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837805 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 2:27 PM
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Now how many times has this been posted on this board and the libs continue to play Sgt. Shultz I know nothing and I see nothing...simply amazing!

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Author: N56629 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837807 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 2:29 PM
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Now the Right wants the President to divulge all state, military and government secrets. What a bunch of traitors.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837808 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 2:29 PM
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"Now the Right wants the President to divulge all state, military and government secrets. What a bunch of traitors. "

Oh, so it was a secret that everyone already knows i.e. a terrorist attack. ROTFLOL

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837809 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 2:31 PM
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Now the Right wants the President to divulge all state, military and government secrets. What a bunch of traitors.

What secrets?

The story line was fabricated to fit the standing pre-election narrative more than anything else. They could have said nothing in fact, saying they don't know.

Liars lie and scum protect them by making excuses.

99

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837824 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 3:31 PM
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Rafalca-puckies.

Ken

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837825 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 3:33 PM
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"Now the Right wants the President to divulge all state, military and government secrets. What a bunch of traitors."

It's not just the President they want. They want all branches of the intelligence community to jump when they blow their political whistle.

This was, is, and shall remain despicable political posturing by the Republicans as lead by morot McCain.

Ken

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Author: FKJacobs Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837832 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 3:58 PM
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One question....

Why is this important?

It is also not like Obama himself nor even the folks on his Cabinet are directly responsible for security staffing levels and methods at our embassies and diplomatic compounds -- they have staff that is supposed to deal with that.

I would speculate the folks that preformed the attack are now on the "kill" list and are being hunted down.

I am also sure security levels at every embassies and diplomatic compound has been reviewed and any short comings corrected......

So for a few days after the attack there was a mixed message from various spokes persons... The message is consistent now...

You guys are just wasting everyone's time...

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837833 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 4:01 PM
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"Now the Right wants the President to divulge all state, military and government secrets. What a bunch of traitors."

It's not just the President they want. They want all branches of the intelligence community to jump when they blow their political whistle.

This was, is, and shall remain despicable political posturing by the Republicans as lead by morot McCain.

Ken
Ih yeah, and just what are those super secret secrets that would be out if you just stated what Patraus said from the onset..A terrorist effort with links to AQ?

All state military and government secrets, LMAO. The lengths morons go through to provide cover for their Messiah. Just as bad as fundie Islamos, but worse.

99

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Author: N56629 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837839 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 4:14 PM
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"You guys are just wasting everyone's time..."

Come on they don't have a life. You can't deny they their moment of stupidity.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837843 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 4:29 PM
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Why is this important?

Simple. So it doesn't happen again. Why it that so tough to understand? That dead Americans is simply not acceptable?

It is also not like Obama himself nor even the folks on his Cabinet are directly responsible for security staffing levels and methods at our embassies and diplomatic compounds -- they have staff that is supposed to deal with that.

Security at embassies and consulates is Hillary!'s responsibility. Period, end of story. Again, why is this so tough?

I would speculate the folks that preformed the attack are now on the "kill" list and are being hunted down.

These folks were known members of an al Qaeda affiliate. They should have already been on the list.

I am also sure security levels at every embassies and diplomatic compound has been reviewed and any short comings corrected......

Nothing like locking the barn door after the horse has left.

So for a few days after the attack there was a mixed message from various spokes persons... The message is consistent now...

Actually it was a couple of weeks just prior to an election where Obama knew full well what was going on and chose to lie to the public. That's been definitively proven now.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837845 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 4:30 PM
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PS: The rank, stinking hypocrisy of this is amazing. Remember Valerie Plame? You people wanted Cheney and Bush in jail. Yet for this you yawn.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837849 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 4:42 PM
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Now the Right wants the President to divulge all state, military and government secrets. What a bunch of traitors.

Yes. It's pretty amazing. It's as if the think it's a good idea for the President to deliver a intel briefing to the nation immediately after a terror attack. Of course, the administration didn't tell the whole truth about the Benghazi attack. The people killed were CIA. And you don't want to alert the attackers that you are after them, specifically.

It's also hugely hypocritical of the rightwingnuts, which, sadly, isn't amazing, but typical. It's not only a standard they did not hold President Bush to. They defended the Bush administration's refusal to explain it's 9-11 reactions for years.

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Author: Umm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837852 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 4:49 PM
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"Now the Right wants the President to divulge all state, military and government secrets. What a bunch of traitors."

What do you mean "Now"? If it suits their political purpose, many have always tried to justify giving up state secrets even if it risks bringing harm to the men and women trying to protect us. Just ask Valerie Plame.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837853 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 4:51 PM
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PS: The rank, stinking hypocrisy of this is amazing. Remember Valerie Plame? You people wanted Cheney and Bush in jail. Yet for this you yawn.
_______________________

Stop that garbage.

There was zero in common between these two events. Do not give the SOBs even this faint hint of having not been utter slime in the Plame affair

Yes, had they had a point in the Place affair it would be rank hypocrisy. However, they did not. That is so important to remember, the hypocrisy is the least of their problems

They are dishonest to their very souls. They have sold out so totally they have given up on being decent folks in the political arena. They are not, there is no lie they will not tell and those they worship know the bigger the lie, the more these folks will invest in believing it, and having believed it, it is impossible for them to backtrack

Their heroes have created a slime pit that these folks have to admit having willingly descended into before they can admit the other side is correct

That is the beauty of the really big consistent lies that liberal Democrats live by -- once they get a hint you may be wrong -- they have a defense mechanism that makes them believe they can not have been that darn stupid so they must have been right and they fight all that much harder

From a propaganda and psychotically warfare POV it is beautiful, just a shame these folks are willingly destroying the country to protect their egos

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837855 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 4:56 PM
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Stop that garbage.

There was zero in common between these two events. Do not give the SOBs even this faint hint of having not been utter slime in the Plame affair


Good point.

They are dishonest to their very souls. They have sold out so totally they have given up on being decent folks in the political arena. They are not, there is no lie they will not tell and those they worship know the bigger the lie, the more these folks will invest in believing it, and having believed it, it is impossible for them to backtrack

Also well said. They're beyond lost.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837866 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 5:29 PM
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Low: They are dishonest to their very souls. They have sold out so totally they have given up on being decent folks in the political arena. They are not, there is no lie they will not tell and those they worship know the bigger the lie, the more these folks will invest in believing it, and having believed it, it is impossible for them to backtrack

Dope: Also well said. They're beyond lost.


Yeah. You two should probably stop posting altogether and just send each other private emails.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837869 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 5:48 PM
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"Yeah. You two should probably stop posting altogether and just send each other private emails. "

The irony of your statement is that you and the rest of your liberal buddies are arguing an indefensible position and continue to do so
in spite of all the evidence that comes out on a daily basis. You guys are like a little kid covering his ears and screaming your wrong and I am right.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837880 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 6:52 PM
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He couldn't have his "I, Captain Kicka$$, killer of al Qaeda" talking point overcome by actual reality, could he?
To be honest, I don't think this is even close to the thought process.

I think Obama and some (not all) of his close advisers really and truly believe in the Arab Spring.
I think they really and truly believe that the Arabs have genuine reason to resent the West.
I think the wanted their storyline of anger over US abuse of free speech to be true so very badly that they actually were incapable of perceiving reality.
IF you really believe something, it's not a lie. It's incompetence.

It should be noted, however, that EVERY president this century has suffered from this affliction.

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Author: anniesdad Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837882 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 7:02 PM
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Ih yeah, and just what are those super secret secrets that would be out if you just stated what Patraus said from the onset..

Except he didn't say that.

Here’s what ABC News reported Petraeus said at the September 14 hearing : The attack “began as a spontaneous protest against the film ‘The Innocence of Muslims,’ but Islamic militants who may have links to Al Qaeda used the opportunity to launch an attack.”

“In the Benghazi area, in the beginning we feel that it was spontaneous – the protest- because it went on for two or three hours, which is very relevant because if it was something that was planned, then they could have come and attacked right away,” Ruppersberger, D-Md., said following the hour-long briefing by Petraeus. “At this point it looks as if there was a spontaneous situation that occurred and that as a result of that, the extreme groups that were probably connected to al Qaeda took advantage of that situation and then the attack started.”

http://www.salon.com/

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837891 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 7:23 PM
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“At this point it looks as if there was a spontaneous situation that occurred and that as a result of that, the extreme groups that were probably connected to al Qaeda took advantage of that situation and then the attack started.”

That is a far cry from saying it was a spontaneous attack in response to an American made video, with no mention of terror attack probably linked to AQ.

Looks like it was watered down not for security or to protect super secrets, but to be consistant with the pre-election need.

Liars lie, omit and distort. It was an issue when claimed against Bush, but with Obama and you....not so. That is "change" for you.

99

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837895 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 7:43 PM
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It's not just the President they want. They want all branches of the intelligence community to jump when they blow their political whistle.

No, just tell the truth, that is all. When you lie, don't whine and complain when you are cornered about it.

99

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Author: wittgenstein Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837898 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 8:09 PM
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Hiding out in Myanmar and Cambodia for a few days. Will make up new lies after a brief respite.


jz

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Author: N56629 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837932 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 9:57 PM
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" That dead Americans is simply not acceptable?"---DaDope

Your Republican prez Sacrificed them by the thousands and everyone of them is worth as much as any ambassador.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837933 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 9:58 PM
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So now it's okay that Obama kills off a few? Glad to know where your priorities lie.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837935 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/17/2012 10:06 PM
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So now it's okay that Obama kills off a few? Glad to know where your priorities lie.

What a sick thing to say. Obama didn't kill anyone. You need to take a break.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837967 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 12:58 AM
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"They wantses their free stuffes..."



Stop it. It's an ignorant line of attack and it's exactly what the dems want, especially one Hillary Clinton.

There is nothing she would enjoy more than watching the GOP stick their heads in the sand and spend the next 4 years pretending they were just victims of, as Limbaugh whines, Santa Claus.

Romney lost 8 out of the 10 most affluent districts in the United States. Freebies? I doubt it.

Are there people out there getting food stamps that enable them to put a meal on their table? Yup. Santa Claus? Only to the ignorant.

Are there elderly Americans dying in nursing homes instead of on the street thanks to Medicaid? Yup. Santa at work? Just pray you or a loved one never need it.

The more I hear lines like yours from prominent republicans, the more I realize the GOP I grew up with is dead and buried and can only hope for pain and despair to bring them back into power.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837975 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 1:37 AM
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Stop it. It's an ignorant line of attack and it's exactly what the dems want, especially one Hillary Clinton.

The left isn't to be taken seriously on national security matters.

There is nothing she would enjoy more than watching the GOP stick their heads in the sand and spend the next 4 years pretending they were just victims of, as Limbaugh whines, Santa Claus.

Hillary! has just seen an utterly incompetent President re-elected despite the worst recovery in decades. She knows that all she has to do is play loyal soldier for Obama and his support, along with the democrat nomination - is hers in 2016 if she wants it. Notice how the GOP has zilch to do with that?

Are there people out there getting food stamps that enable them to put a meal on their table? Yup. Santa Claus? Only to the ignorant.

I actually wasn't thinking about food stamps. Why did you automatically go there?

The more I hear lines like yours from prominent republicans, the more I realize the GOP I grew up with is dead and buried and can only hope for pain and despair to bring them back into power.

I'm not sure what GOP you grew up with. Given that you criticize 100% of everything it does, I'm not sure you know either.

Our finances are toast. Our foreign policy is in shambles. And yet to you somehow it's all the Republicans' fault. I think every Republican in Congress could resign tomorrow and be replaced with liberal democrats who still wouldn't pass a budget and you'd find a way to blame the GOP.

Talk about 'just stop it already'. <--- There's some advice you could take.

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Author: anniesdad Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837976 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 2:53 AM
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Looks like it was watered down not for security or to protect super secrets, but to be consistant with the pre-election need.

Liars lie, omit and distort. It was an issue when claimed against Bush, but with Obama and you....not so. That is "change" for you.


No it wasn't.

WASHINGTON — David H. Petraeus, the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, told lawmakers on Friday that classified intelligence reports revealed that the deadly assault on the American diplomatic mission in Libya was a terrorist attack.

Mr. Petraeus, who resigned last week after admitting to an extramarital affair, said the names of groups suspected in the attack — including Al Qaeda’s franchise in North Africa and a local Libyan group, Ansar al-Shariah — were removed from the public explanation of the attack immediately after the assault to avoiding alerting the militants that American intelligence and law enforcement agencies were tracking them.

“The points were not, as has been insinuated by some, edited to minimize the role of extremists, diminish terrorist affiliations, or play down that this was an attack,” said a senior official familiar with the drafting of the talking points. “There were legitimate intelligence and legal issues to consider, as is almost always the case when explaining classified assessments publicly.”

Some intelligence analysts worried, for instance, that identifying the groups could reveal that American spy services were eavesdropping on the militants — a fact most insurgents are already aware of. Justice Department lawyers expressed concern about jeopardizing the F.B.I.’s criminal inquiry in the attacks. Other officials voiced concern that making the names public, at least right away.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/world/africa/benghazi-not-...

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1837977 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 3:03 AM
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Erm. Petraeus didn't do the editing. The White House did. The statement from the "Senior Official" doesn't square with what Rice actually did. She said Benghazi was, unequivocally, in response to the video. She also doubled down when challenged on it by a Libyan official.

So is Rice just a poor reader? Did she not read down to the part about terrorists?

And there are no legit issues concerning bland verbiage about terrorists carrying out the attack. That's a lame excuse.

The WH is full of it. libs are in denial.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838007 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 9:19 AM
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What was really funny was when he asked Candy sycophant at the debate to repeat his generic words about terrorism unrelated to the Mr. Ben Ghazi event as if he was referring to it. He of course went on the hard-hitting show The View and when asked directly if this was a terrorist attack said he didn't know, that "we are still looking into it." The goofy-legged, uninformed voters who drool whenever they hear a lying word uttered by The One fell for the lie. These same pathetic ignoramuses who only care about free stuff voted this liar back into office. So now we have the slick sleazy liar-in-chief for another four years. At least we know for certain he won't be back in four more years. Some day Jason will die.

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Author: notehound Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838011 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 9:55 AM
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At least we know for certain he won't be back in four more years.

Are you sure about that?

Rumor has it that O has Eric Holder researching whether an Emergency War Powers Act or some other possible "work-around" might be available to overcome the 22nd Amendment's prohibition.

http://www.lawforkids.org/Law-Docs/amendment-22

;-)

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838012 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:04 AM
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“The points were not, as has been insinuated by some, edited to minimize the role of extremists, diminish terrorist affiliations, or play down that this was an attack,” said a senior official familiar with the drafting of the talking points. “There were legitimate intelligence and legal issues to consider, as is almost always the case when explaining classified assessments publicly.”

Some intelligence analysts worried, for instance, that identifying the groups could reveal that American spy services were eavesdropping on the militants — a fact most insurgents are already aware of. Justice Department lawyers expressed concern about jeopardizing the F.B.I.’s criminal inquiry in the attacks. Other officials voiced concern that making the names public, at least right away.


Seeing how you love the NYT rag, try this one on for size.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/18/opinion/sunday/dowd-is-ric...

Ambitious to be secretary of state, Susan Rice wanted to prove she had the gravitas for the job and help out the White House. So the ambassador to the United Nations agreed to a National Security Council request to go on all five Sunday shows to talk about the attack on the American consulate in Libya.

“She saw this as a great opportunity to go out and close the stature gap,” said one administration official. “She was focused on the performance, not the content. People said, ‘It’s sad because it was one of her best performances.’ But it’s not a movie, it’s the news. Everyone in politics thinks, you just get your good talking points and learn them and reiterate them on camera. But what if they’re not good talking points? What if what you’re saying isn’t true, even if you’re saying it well?”

Testifying on Capitol Hill on Friday, the beheaded Head Spook David Petraeus said the C.I.A. knew quickly that the Benghazi raid was a terrorist attack.

“It was such a no-brainer,” one intelligence official told me.


AQ takes credit for everything,why not just say a "terrorist event, likely with AQ attachments" and not some unexpected,spontaneous protest caused by an American? You don't have to name names at that point. Just be honest with what you can say and not make stuff up. They set Rice up, and now want to protect the lamb they sent out to slaughter...reward her even.

Again, there is no reason not to say terrorist attack as it does not convey "all the state and military secrets" to bare.

What a joke.





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Author: anniesdad Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838013 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:06 AM
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Erm. Petraeus didn't do the editing. The White House did.

Democrats said Mr. Petraeus made it clear the change had not been done for political reasons to aid Mr. Obama. “The general was adamant there was no politicization of the process, no White House interference or political agenda,” said Representative Adam B. Schiff, Democrat of California.

Senator Mark Udall, Democrat of Colorado, said that Mr. Petraeus explained to lawmakers that the final document was put in front of all the senior agency leaders, including Mr. Petraeus, and everyone signed off on it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/world/africa/benghazi-not-...

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838014 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:17 AM
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Are you sure about that?

Rumor has it that O has Eric Holder researching whether an Emergency War Powers Act or some other possible "work-around" might be available to overcome the 22nd Amendment's prohibition.



It wouldn't surprise me. 0 has proved over and over his disdain for the Constitution and his refusal to enforce it.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838015 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:17 AM
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Some intelligence analysts worried, for instance, that identifying the groups could reveal that American spy services were eavesdropping on the militants — a fact most insurgents are already aware of. Justice Department lawyers expressed concern about jeopardizing the F.B.I.’s criminal inquiry in the attacks. Other officials voiced concern that making the names public, at least right away.

_________________________________-

Now I fully accept this.

Had the administration not flat out created and forwarded an absolute lie for weeks, a lie that served their purposes BTW this might seem true.

The WH was lying. All it took if the above were the case, was are looking at what happened and for many reasons we can not discuss the specifics of the tragic loss of life

The Times is lying, in covering for Obama by forwarding this as a narrative. They and the WH are trying to change the focus to someone else being unreasonable

No the focus is the WH lied. The reasons given for not saying what happened in absolutely no way support the WH lying

The WH lied to the American people, and the left loves being lied to for some reason

They are clearly not good people.

And BTW to those of you defending the indefensible, please forward proof of many other foreign agencies(or even 1 in the US) forwarding intelligence that made the President believe for weeks that he was telling the truth, or any threat he may have perceived in being true as a reason for his lying

This and what you try to lie about in Iraq have nothing in common.

The WH is dirty, very very dirty.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838017 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:21 AM
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It's as if the think it's a good idea for the President to deliver a intel briefing to the nation immediately after a terror attack.

Not immediately after (he had a Vegas fundraiser to go to) but a few days after would be nice.

Of course, the administration didn't tell the whole truth about the Benghazi attack.

One Obamabot tells it like it is.

The people killed were CIA.

I did not know that our Ambassadors are all CIA.

And you don't want to alert the attackers that you are after them, specifically.

Are we after them? There was no government official on the ground there for a least a week after 9/11. The US Press in Benghazi were sifting through classified information, strewn about the grounds, without any interaction from the US government.

It's also hugely hypocritical of the rightwingnuts, which, sadly, isn't amazing, but typical.

But leftwingnuts are not hypocritical?

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838020 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:25 AM
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But leftwingnuts are not hypocritical?

They most certainly are sir! They live and breath hypocrisy. If it werent' for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all. They prove this over and over. Sadly, they aren't even aware of it.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838025 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:34 AM
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They most certainly are sir! They live and breath hypocrisy. If it werent' for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all. They prove this over and over. Sadly, they aren't even aware of it.
_______________

Actually, sadly you IMO are assuming facts not in evidence

They IMO appear to be perfectly aware of it, they just do not care. They just need the lie to be big enough and for enough of them to be told, that it looks like you are being overly critical in noticing.

There is simply no way they do not know, look for something darker.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838026 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:41 AM
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Look, relaying information that the rest of the world already would conclude on there own due to recent history is not revealing any secrets. A simple reference to a terrorist attack that killed US citizens, with likely ties to AQ would have been honest, yet would have protected any specific information sources. But it would have revealed more problems for the pre-election process of Obama and the solution fed that need more than anything else.

From your article-

Senator Marco Rubio, Republican of Florida, said Mr. Petraeus’s testimony showed that “clearly the security measures were inadequate despite an overwhelming and growing amount of information that showed the area in Benghazi was dangerous, particularly on the night of Sept. 11.”

This begins to bite at the truth in the story given out.

“The fact is, the reference to Al Qaeda was taken out somewhere along the line by someone outside the intelligence community,” Representative Peter T. King, a New York Republican, said after the House hearing. “We need to find out who did it and why.”

After the hearings on Friday, administration officials disputed the notion that politics or other motives caused the changes.


If they knew so much specific information that could not be compromized for security reasons, then why haven't these guys been caught yet? Protecting this information did nothing in getting their apprehension did it? It did however, provide Obama cover through the election.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838037 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 11:12 AM
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"The more I hear lines like yours from prominent republicans, the more I realize the GOP I grew up with is dead and buried and can only hope for pain and despair to bring them back into power. "

Yep, pretty soon this country will go bankrupt leaving millions of people on the street without the care they need, because of people like you and the progressive liberals, who have put their collective heads in the sand ignoring this country's debt and unsustainable entitlement programs. Instead they have used demagoguery and scare tactics to maintain the status quo.

Here's to a bankrupt country by the end of the decade!

Thank you all progressive liberals, progressive republicans and progressives everywhere for destroying this country. You have done a remarkable job in such a short time.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838041 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 11:29 AM
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look for something darker.

If what you say is true, it doesn't get any darker.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838043 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 11:30 AM
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" She knows that all she has to do is play loyal soldier for Obama and his support, along with the democrat nomination - is hers in 2016 if she wants it. Notice how the GOP has zilch to do with that?
"

You do realize that Hillary wants more than to be the democratic NOMINEE, don't you?

"I actually wasn't thinking about food stamps. Why did you automatically go there?"

Just one example among many others. Post could go on for pages. Lucky you, that you're not one of those who could not survive without these "freebies" from Santa Claus.
It's also ignorant to believe that these people WANT freebies in place of working for a living.
A few? Sure, but we have those on the right also, don't we? People who have no problem using government roads, bridges, etc. but feel they shouldn't have to pay taxes.

"I'm not sure what GOP you grew up with. Given that you criticize 100% of everything it does, I'm not sure you know either."

I thought you were a republican in the 80's? Am I wrong?
Guess what? Reagan would not be nominated by this bunch of Tea Party extremists, at least not his second term. After all, he did compromise on taxes a number of times.
The GOP I grew up with did not sit back and do nothing during the worst economic crisis in our nation's history and force their own president to go to the opposition party to help solve it.

The only difference between you and I is that I don't drink the Kool-Aid.
I don't blindly follow ever order from Grover & his Tea Party ilk.
My apologies if thinking for oneself is against GOP bylaws.

"Our finances are toast."

How were our finances doing in 2008?

"Our foreign policy is in shambles."

How so? Al Qaeda is decimated & Bin Laden is dead. The ME is the usual mess. Nothing new there except that we will be energy independent soon enough and the ME oil states are toast.

"And yet to you somehow it's all the Republicans' fault. I think every Republican in Congress could resign tomorrow and be replaced with liberal democrats who still wouldn't pass a budget and you'd find a way to blame the GOP."

Already done. The GOP resigned 4 years ago when Obama was elected. They spent the next 4 years sticking to archaic pledges in the face of a near depression and fought every attempt to right the ship, pretending that their answers were ordained from God and could not be compromised on.
As one of those resigning GOP senators said, the goal of the next 4 years is to remove Obama from office.
Well, another goal the GOP failed to achieve.

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Author: flightdoc101 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838057 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 12:31 PM
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These posts about conspiracy are lunacy!

What was accomplished by supposed lying? Shoring up the accomplishment of having gotten Binladen? That stands on its own and the election did not rest on that.

Was it not sending "help"? Pure stuff. What help could be, was sent. The myth that help was refused is nowhere corroborated; it is a fevered dream. That decision would never go as far as the WH anyway. An air strike? Only in Hollywood.

Fervent insistence along these lines has delusional overtones.

You don't like the President. I get that. It's a two party system and your guy lost. Live with it.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838059 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 12:37 PM
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"What help could be, was sent."

Only if you ignore the facts.

" The myth that help was refused is nowhere corroborated; it is a fevered dream."

Answer a question that Obama seems incapable of: What orders did Obama give to save lives in Benghazi??

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Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838069 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 1:13 PM
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This crap has been going downhill for you guys since Flip accused him of sympathizing with the attackers, while stepping on the graves of the victims. You guys haven't noticed, apparently, that that little stunt, along with the "Obama removed work from welfare", "Jeep is moving your job to China", and all the other MUS has left you with zero credibility. Maybe you should consider accepting your defeat, accept that you earned it with relentless libels, put on your bigboy pants, STFU and try to actually accomplish something worthwhile.

MAN UP

Never happen, of course. Carry on with your crying.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838072 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 1:16 PM
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"This crap has been going downhill for you guys since Flip accused him of sympathizing with the attackers, while stepping on the graves of the victims. You guys haven't noticed, apparently, that that little stunt, along with the "Obama removed work from welfare", "Jeep is moving your job to China", and all the other MUS has left you with zero credibility. Maybe you should consider accepting your defeat, accept that you earned it with relentless libels, put on your bigboy pants, STFU and try to actually accomplish something worthwhile.

MAN UP
"

You and your lefty comrades need to MAN UP regarding Benghazi.

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838075 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 1:26 PM
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They wantses their free stuffes...

You want your free tax cuts...

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838081 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 1:35 PM
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"You want your free tax cuts... "

Nope. You want to raise taxes.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838097 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 2:53 PM
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You do realize that Hillary wants more than to be the democratic NOMINEE, don't you?

It's kind of a process. Maybe you've heard of primaries?

Just one example among many others. Post could go on for pages. Lucky you, that you're not one of those who could not survive without these "freebies" from Santa Claus.
It's also ignorant to believe that these people WANT freebies in place of working for a living.
A few? Sure, but we have those on the right also, don't we? People who have no problem using government roads, bridges, etc. but feel they shouldn't have to pay taxes.


Funny, I don't know of anyone arguing for zero taxes, Commander Strawman. But I do know several people who wantses their free health care.

I thought you were a republican in the 80's? Am I wrong?
Guess what? Reagan would not be nominated by this bunch of Tea Party extremists, at least not his second term. After all, he did compromise on taxes a number of times.
The GOP I grew up with did not sit back and do nothing during the worst economic crisis in our nation's history and force their own president to go to the opposition party to help solve it.


Horsecr@p on 50 levels.

I get it. You hate today's GOP. So go become a democrat already. It'll spare the rest of us the complaints.

The only difference between you and I is that I don't drink the Kool-Aid.
I don't blindly follow ever order from Grover & his Tea Party ilk.
My apologies if thinking for oneself is against GOP bylaws.


Which implies that I do just follow orders blindly. If you say so.

How were our finances doing in 2008?

We were $6 trillion less in debt, for starters.

Already done. The GOP resigned 4 years ago when Obama was elected. They spent the next 4 years sticking to archaic pledges in the face of a near depression and fought every attempt to right the ship, pretending that their answers were ordained from God and could not be compromised on.
As one of those resigning GOP senators said, the goal of the next 4 years is to remove Obama from office.
Well, another goal the GOP failed to achieve.


You really are a one trick pony, aren't you? As I said, it's like the other party doesn't actually control the Senate and the Presidency.

Get back to me when you're ready to discuss actual solutions.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838098 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 2:54 PM
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These posts about conspiracy are lunacy!

It's funny how facts in the real world are conspiracy to you. Do you think the Navy had JFK killed, too?

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838099 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 3:00 PM
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"I get it. You hate today's GOP. So go become a democrat already. It'll spare the rest of us the complaints.
"

This is the on going saga of richieds.

My suspicion is that he is really a liberal claiming to be a republican, so he can claim he is above the partisan bickering.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838113 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 3:25 PM
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My suspicion is that he is really a liberal claiming to be a republican, so he can claim he is above the partisan bickering.

He's solid on foreign policy. He just refuses to articulate anything that should be done or potential solutions to problems when it comes to domestic policy for some reason. The only one I can think of is that Grover Norquist hit on his wife at a party. Would explain a lot :)

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838120 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 3:39 PM
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"You don't like the President. I get that. It's a two party system and your guy lost. Live with it."

Funny, in one thread, I'm debating a conservative republican about my abandoning of the GOP and in this thread I'm being told how I don't like the president.

I guess many around here have never heard of independent thinking.
A novel concept.

Rather than knee jerk bi-partisanship, try just reading the facts and see what develops.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838128 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 3:55 PM
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"We were $6 trillion less in debt, for starters."


Yet, we came within a whisker of financial Armageddon, avoided only thanks to Bush/Paulson and his democratic team. That financial collapse also, in case you've conveniently forgotten, happened under the tax rates that the GOP thinks will create Armageddon if they are allowed to expire for the wealthy.
So much for that theory.

" As I said, it's like the other party doesn't actually control the Senate and the Presidency."

You need to learn a bit more about how DC works. Governing is a tough job but BLOCKING the other party from governing, even with a substantial minority, is fairly easy and the GOP showed us just how easy it is.

"But I do know several people who wantses their free health care."

Which, of course as you must know, is not what Obamacare is but why let that stop you.
In fact, quite the opposite. Obamacare put an end to free health care, which has always existed, in the form of a mandate, which the right did everything they could to stop.
Conservatives FOUGHT for free health care. Your side FOUGHT for the right of Americans to go without insurance and, instead, get free emergency room care when needed.
Hypocrisy at it's finest.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838129 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 3:59 PM
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Yet, we came within a whisker of financial Armageddon, avoided only thanks to Bush/Paulson and his democratic team. That financial collapse also, in case you've conveniently forgotten, happened under the tax rates that the GOP thinks will create Armageddon if they are allowed to expire for the wealthy.
So much for that theory.


Theory? Actually, it's a number. Your understanding of the financial crisis seems to leave out a lot, but i've no motivation to fill in all the perverse incentives that date back to 1975. I invite you to do your own reading.

You need to learn a bit more about how DC works. Governing is a tough job but BLOCKING the other party from governing, even with a substantial minority, is fairly easy and the GOP showed us just how easy it is.

Fail. The GOP has passed legislation that will help. The democrats just talk and people like you eat it up. What was that about thinking for yourself, again? I'm not seeing much evidence of it.

As for the rest of you post: have at it. Enjoy the long lines.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838138 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 4:09 PM
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"Theory? Actually, it's a number."

Right, 6 trillion less debt and STILL, the worst economic decline since the 1930's.
6 trillion less debt, Bush tax cuts IN EFFECT and STILL the worst economic decline since the 1930's?
Starting to recognize a trend here?

Agreeing to a tax hike on the wealthy, in order to secure 3 trillion in spending cuts over the next decade SHOULD have been a no brainer but the GOP chose Grover over their country and gave us the fiscal cliff.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838140 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 4:12 PM
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"Right, 6 trillion less debt and STILL, the worst economic decline since the 1930's.
6 trillion less debt, Bush tax cuts IN EFFECT and STILL the worst economic decline since the 1930's?
Starting to recognize a trend here?

Agreeing to a tax hike on the wealthy, in order to secure 3 trillion in spending cuts over the next decade SHOULD have been a no brainer but the GOP chose Grover over their country and gave us the fiscal cliff. "

This is just replete with cause and effect fallacies. LOL

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838150 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 4:30 PM
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"This crap has been going downhill for you guys since Flip accused him of sympathizing with the attackers, while stepping on the graves of the victims. You guys haven't noticed, apparently, that that little stunt, along with the "Obama removed work from welfare", "Jeep is moving your job to China", and all the other MUS has left you with zero credibility. Maybe you should consider accepting your defeat, accept that you earned it with relentless libels, put on your bigboy pants, STFU and try to actually accomplish something worthwhile.

MAN UP
"
_____________________

The fact that the public accepts being lied to, does me we have to accept the public accepts being lied to

We on the other hand would be morons to agree with you, that lies are in fact truth

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838206 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 5:59 PM
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The trend is that you're blaming tax rates for the financial crash. It's wrong and its boring. But have at it. Never mind the role of FIDICIA and a host if other bills.

I also love how in your world there is zero accountability for the actual President. Maybe you remember his name...?

Either way, have at it. I'm on record as supporting tax hikes. The voters want liberalism. Let them have it.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838207 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 5:59 PM
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That guy is hilarious.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838210 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 6:00 PM
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It's as if the think it's a good idea for the President to deliver a intel briefing to the nation immediately after a terror attack.
--
Not immediately after... but a few days after would be nice.


How about three years later and then only in a closed meeting?
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/26/us/bush-to-limit-testimony...


The people killed were CIA.
---
I did not know that our Ambassadors are all CIA.


They aren't. No one said that they were.

And you don't want to alert the attackers that you are after them, specifically.


Are we after them?

How would I know?



It's also hugely hypocritical of the rightwingnuts, which, sadly, isn't amazing, but typical.
---
But leftwingnuts are not hypocritical?


Sure. But not about this.

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838218 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 6:16 PM
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How about three years later and then only in a closed meeting?

We all know by reading Political Asylum that GWB was an awful president.

And you don't want to alert the attackers that you are after them, specifically.

No. Don't do that.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838222 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 6:23 PM
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"The trend is that you're blaming tax rates for the financial crash. It's wrong and its boring."

Never blamed tax rates for the crash. Never blamed Bush for the crash. Neither did I ever blame the GOP for the crash.

What I DID point out was, simply, that the worst economic crash since the 1930's happened while the wealthy were paying taxes under Bush's lower rates. No cause & effect stated.
The real point being that the GOP was wrong to refuse to compromise on tax hikes the past 4 years. While 2008 didn't prove that lower rates caused the crash, it certainly makes a huge dent in the claim that the only way to turn this economy around is by never raising taxes.
We can also go back to 1993 & Bill Clinton. Higher tax rates were followed by an economic boom. While I prefer to keep rates low, I'd never have given up as much as the GOP did to keep them that way for a wealthy few. Anyone paying attention now knows that tax rates are not the be all and end all.

Sometimes, you have to put away your ideology and look at the facts and the facts don't support the GOP's insane adherence to a policy dictated by Grover Norquist.

"ither way, have at it. I'm on record as supporting tax hikes. The voters want liberalism. Let them have it."

Liberalism? Maybe not. Compromise? More likely. From TARP to default to the fiscal cliff, Americans have had far too many examples of DC's inability to govern in recent years.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838225 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 6:26 PM
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"What I DID point out was, simply, that the worst economic crash since the 1930's happened while the wealthy were paying taxes under Bush's lower rates. No cause & effect stated.
The real point being that the GOP was wrong to refuse to compromise on tax hikes the past 4 years. While 2008 didn't prove that lower rates caused the crash, it certainly makes a huge dent in the claim that the only way to turn this economy around is by never raising taxes.
We can also go back to 1993 & Bill Clinton. Higher tax rates were followed by an economic boom. While I prefer to keep rates low, I'd never have given up as much as the GOP did to keep them that way for a wealthy few."

LOL You say "no cause and effect" then you go on to infer it by bringing up Clinton raising taxes. You can't have it both ways.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838271 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 8:35 PM
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Never blamed tax rates for the crash. Never blamed Bush for the crash. Neither did I ever blame the GOP for the crash.

Right. You just feel compelled to bring them up every. single. time. Whatever you say.

What I DID point out was, simply, that the worst economic crash since the 1930's happened while the wealthy were paying taxes under Bush's lower rates. No cause & effect stated.

Except in your sentence structure. But you know that, and keep doing it anyway.

The real point being that the GOP was wrong to refuse to compromise on tax hikes the past 4 years. While 2008 didn't prove that lower rates caused the crash, it certainly makes a huge dent in the claim that the only way to turn this economy around is by never raising taxes.

Funny that even Barack Obama signed the BTC extension. Oh, well. SO much for your thesis.

We can also go back to 1993 & Bill Clinton. Higher tax rates were followed by an economic boom. While I prefer to keep rates low, I'd never have given up as much as the GOP did to keep them that way for a wealthy few. Anyone paying attention now knows that tax rates are not the be all and end all.

Indeed. And how ironic. Ironic that you probably typed your post on PC, the very device with which in combination with the spread of the internet created one of the greatest productivity booms among US workers and literally opened up a new sector for the economy to grow into...

...which created conditions that ALLOWED Bill Clinton to raise taxes. Dishonest liberals never acknowledge this macroeconomic fact, and I know you're not one of those, so why don't we drop the pretension that high tax rates caused an economic boom in the 90s?

Sometimes, you have to put away your ideology and look at the facts and the facts don't support the GOP's insane adherence to a policy dictated by Grover Norquist.

That's nice. And given the above...not terribly relevant.

Liberalism? Maybe not. Compromise? More likely. From TARP to default to the fiscal cliff, Americans have had far too many examples of DC's inability to govern in recent years.

Hey, I've now switched sides. The Republicans should roll over and give Obama everything. He. Wants. 100%.

What's on the horizon is coming anyway. Might as well have the GOP get out of the way and let Obama bring it all forward so he gets the blame.

AT any rate. I've indulged your penchant for blaming the GOP for every ant at every picnic. Still doesn't change the fact that the White House altered the CIA's talking points to exclude terrorism and then sent Rice out there with the cockamamie video story. But thanks for helping make my point about voters not holding Obama accountable. It's why I'm now rooting for 100% liberalism, worldwide.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838287 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 9:23 PM
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"and I know you're not one of those, so why don't we drop the pretension that high tax rates caused an economic boom in the 90s?"

Never said it was. Point is that significantly higher tax rates under Clinton did not stop the next 5 years from having an economic boom and I'm just as sure that far less significant tax hikes on far fewer, wealthy, Americans will not stop the next one.

Fact is that neither side has all the answers but we were pretty close to a decent compromise that was stopped by Grover Norquist.

"Hey, I've now switched sides. The Republicans should roll over and give Obama everything. He. Wants. 100%."


Sure. Of course, I don't recall the GOP being in a position where they would have had to give Obama 100%. In fact, it was Obama who would have given up the most just to get his tax hike on the wealthy. The GOP had Obama where they wanted him but were spanked by their master, Grover Norquist, and ran away with their tails between their legs.

So, if you want to give Obama 100%, go right ahead....but understand you never had to.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838290 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 9:26 PM
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"Never said it was. Point is that significantly higher tax rates under Clinton did not stop the next 5 years from having an economic boom and I'm just as sure that far less significant tax hikes on far fewer, wealthy, Americans will not stop the next one.
"

Too funny with you cause and effect fallacies while declaring you are not doing so. You are a piece of work!!

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838307 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 9:53 PM
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So Norquist DID hit on your wife at a party. That'd
honk me off too.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838314 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 9:57 PM
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"So Norquist DID hit on your wife at a party."


At our age, we'd be flattered.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838319 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:00 PM
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How about three years later and then only in a closed meeting?

We all know by reading Political Asylum that GWB was an awful president.


I'm not talking about his awfulness. I'm talking about your (plural) hypocrisy.

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Author: eudaimon6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838344 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:33 PM
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You know, three or four years ago, I remember reading your posts and thinking, "that guy is three or four notches to the right of me."

As people like you join people like me in the ranks of the discarded RINOs, the Republican party will continue its march towards illegitimacy.

Shame, isn't it?

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838348 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 10:36 PM
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Xlife. Take the log from your eye before helping me with my sliver.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838371 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 11:39 PM
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>As people like you join people like me in the ranks of the discarded RINOs, the Republican party will continue its march towards illegitimacy.

Shame, isn't it? <


It will take some guts from people in the conservative media to change the tide. I'm seeing some of it but not enough yet.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838373 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/18/2012 11:50 PM
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Xlife. Take the log from your eye before helping me with my sliver.

Pat, what is it, exactly, that you think I'm being hypocritical about?

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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838395 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/19/2012 7:57 AM
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If the actions taken by the administration regarding the PR-push with Rice on talk shows, and the delay for the administration to admit what other entities were saying hours after the attack... if those actions were taken by the Bush Cheney White House, that you might be one of the first who would be critical of them.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838396 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/19/2012 8:22 AM
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Pat, what is it, exactly, that you think I'm being hypocritical about?
--
If the actions taken by the administration regarding the PR-push with Rice on talk shows, and the delay for the administration to admit what other entities were saying hours after the attack... if those actions were taken by the Bush Cheney White House, that you might be one of the first who would be critical of them.


Almost no one was critical of the Bush administration in the days following 9-11, as they sorting stuff out. The criticism came later.

And calling Rice's appearances a "PR push" is ridiculous.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838401 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/19/2012 8:31 AM
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If the actions taken by the administration regarding the PR-push with Rice on talk shows, and the delay for the administration to admit what other entities were saying hours after the attack... if those actions were taken by the Bush Cheney White House, that you might be one of the first who would be critical of them.
_______________________

In defense of Obama, the Bush Cheney group could not do this even if they wanted to

The press would never let them get away with an absurd lie like this. So even if they were as morally and spiritually corrupt as the Obama WH they could not be this bad, even if they wanted to

We as a nation have never seen anything like this, because it has never been possible before

This is actually getting scarier and scarier, and those supporting this being OK are simply out of their friggin minds.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838418 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/19/2012 9:41 AM
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Fervent insistence along these lines has delusional overtones.

Nixon supporters said the same thing in the early stages of Watergate.

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1838677 of 1977450
Subject: Re: Obama knew it was terror, lied anyway Date: 11/19/2012 8:08 PM
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In defense of Obama, the Bush Cheney group could not do this even if they wanted to

The press would never let them get away with an absurd lie like this. So even if they were as morally and spiritually corrupt as the Obama WH they could not be this bad, even if they wanted to

We as a nation have never seen anything like this, because it has never been possible before

This is actually getting scarier and scarier, and those supporting this being OK are simply out of their friggin minds.
___________________

Very true. The press would have been harping on this since it happened, every single day. Just like when Fox did their portrayal of the Iraq invasion from start to finish. Chanting about record water production, record oil production, and all of the other lies that seemed believable at the time.

All the press has to do with Obama, is nothing. Just don;t mention it mostly. Mention a hearing or two, then go on to something else. Simple.

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