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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1977498  
Subject: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 4:19 PM
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AP source: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer

WASHINGTON (AP) — A person familiar with the details says President Barack Obama is not making a new ‘fiscal cliff’ offer at his high-stakes meeting with congressional leaders at the White House.

http://www.boston.com/business/news/2012/12/28/source-obama-...

He should have just stayed in Hawaii


Bears
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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849299 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 5:14 PM
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"
He should have just stayed in Hawaii


Bears
"

It's all for public consumption. This is what he wanted all along.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849303 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 5:47 PM
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It's all for public consumption. This is what he wanted all along.

The storyline, he gave up a beach front vacation in Hawaii to help out those failure folks in DC.

What a guy and what a sacrifice.

99

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849305 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 5:50 PM
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Obama only cares about Obama and destroying the GOP. As a President he's useless.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849306 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 5:55 PM
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"Obama only cares about Obama and destroying the GOP. As a President he's useless."

The GOP has done a good job of self destruction, no outside intervention required. Factions of extremists, poor quality candidates, campaign miscalculations, and delusions of competency all combined has done them in for a while. They need to remove their heads from the dark, smelly places they been so we can actually have a 2 party system again.

As for Obama being useless, tell that to Bin Laden.

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849311 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 6:14 PM
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Look. All the first string "news" reporters are on holiday. Did you really think these twirps were going to do anything?

This is all a dog and pony show.

My favorite commentary today by some pundit, when asked how he felt about people being a tad bit miffed about paying into FICA all these years and now being treated like they were welfare queens wanting entitlements.

His answer:

"Hey! They got Maddoffed, suck it up." (More or less)

Well, Mr. Commentator, at least "Mr." Maddoff went to jail (or so we've been told).

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849314 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 6:17 PM
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The storyline, he gave up a beach front vacation in Hawaii to help out those failure folks in DC.

What a guy and what a sacrifice.

99
________________

Boo hoo. Just in time for that winter storm, for the whole slew of them to use as another excuse not to get anything done.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849317 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 6:28 PM
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My favorite commentary today by some pundit, when asked how he felt about people being a tad bit miffed about paying into FICA all these years and now being treated like they were welfare queens wanting entitlements.

His answer:

"Hey! They got Maddoffed, suck it up." (More or less)

Well, Mr. Commentator, at least "Mr." Maddoff went to jail (or so we've been told).
________________________________

Madoff didn't send government agents to my door and tell me I was going to jail if I did not invest with him.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849321 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 6:35 PM
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As for Obama being useless, tell that to Bin Laden.

Yeah .... bet Bin Laden could not believe it when Obama came over that hill looking like Rambo ... guns blaz'n .... dirty headband ... Bow strapped to his back .....

We will always keep that image in our hearts


Bears

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849322 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 6:35 PM
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Madoff didn't send government agents to my door and tell me I was going to jail if I did not invest with him.
_____________

Good point

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849327 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 6:50 PM
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"We will always keep that image in our hearts"

Will it help get rid of the image of W hitting golf balls or clearing brush? If so, A+.

Ken

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849334 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 7:12 PM
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Will it help get rid of the image of W hitting golf balls or clearing brush? If so, A+.

Ken


Or Jimmy Carter getting attacked by the rabbit while fishing or searching for UFOs :) Billy Beer

Bush sr vomiting on the Japanese prime minister

Bill Clinton .... dont need to fill in any blanks there

Fords historic trip and fall down the steps of Air Force One while on live camera.


They are all bozos

Bears

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849335 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 7:14 PM
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"They are all bozos"

Well, FDR couldn't live forever.

Ken

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849336 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 7:17 PM
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Well, FDR couldn't live forever.

Ken


Saw him in Disneys hall of Presidents

Asked why he was shown standing up as I felt he would have more impact if seated in his wheelchair

Never got an answer .... dont know if they still have him standing or not. Have not been over to see Obama

Bears

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849338 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/28/2012 7:26 PM
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[ As for Obama being useless, tell that to Bin Laden. ]

"Yeah .... bet Bin Laden could not believe it when Obama came over that hill looking like Rambo ... guns blaz'n .... dirty headband ... Bow strapped to his back .....

We will always keep that image in our hearts"

---

Wow. You folks believe some bizarre stuff. Is that why your guy believed he had magic underwear? Same kind of thinking there.

That's just weird.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849371 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 1:02 AM
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Salongi says

Madoff didn't send government agents to my door and tell me I was going to jail if I did not invest with him.
_____________

Good point


Uh, who did? Agents at somebody's door? Did I miss a big story, or is somebody having some fun hallucinations?

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849386 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 7:56 AM
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As for Obama being useless, tell that to Bin Laden.

__________________________________

Yeah? Well big deal...Speaking of the prez being useless he now owns 70% of American troops killed is Afghanistan...

And NOW...

'US Soldier Suicides Outnumber Combat Deaths In 2012'

"WASHINGTON (CBS DC) – American soldier suicides continue to outnumber combat-related deaths in 2012, and the trajectory for soldier suicides continues to get worse."

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/12/28/us-soldier-suicide...

So tell us again nigel what a big deal it is the prez killed Bin Laden.

Wherever the spirit of OBL is, he is laughing his backside off knowing his followers continue in the killing of more and more Americans...right under the nose of the prez watch.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849392 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 9:14 AM
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[As for Obama being useless, tell that to Bin Laden.]

"Yeah? Well big deal..." - LurkerMom

Says a lot about you, that your hatred for Obama is so intense. You list military deaths that have all resulted for the wars that Idiot Bush started, and blame Obama for them all. Yet that he was responsible for taking out the single worst terrorist and enemy of our country means "big deal" to you.

Whose side are you on, anyway?

---

"Wherever the spirit of OBL is, he is laughing his backside off..."

No, he isn't. He isn't doing anything. He's dead, gone, no more. DEAD. Thanks to our brave military and the leadership of our Commander in Chief, President Obama.

Big deal, indeed.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849424 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 11:39 AM
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No, he isn't. He isn't doing anything. He's dead, gone, no more. DEAD. Thanks to our brave military and the leadership of our Commander in Chief, President Obama.

Big deal, indeed.


Kinda sounds like our current POTUS and Congress don't it?

Martyrdom for one, Martyrdom for all.

99

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849451 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 12:53 PM
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"As for Obama being useless, tell that to Bin Laden."

The $800B pork-u-lus was relatively useless as well.

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Author: rubberthinking Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849473 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 1:39 PM
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"Wherever the spirit of OBL is, he is laughing his backside off..."

LM is very anti American

Dave

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849491 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 2:40 PM
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"LM is very anti American"

Sure seems so.

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Author: rubberthinking Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849501 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 3:00 PM
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Nigel,

the times change and it is your job as a thinking astute human being to comprehend those changes and to vote as an American putting country first. We live in a country where the voting public needs to keep up in their education on the day's events and matters at hand.

LM might be fun at a party. But really she is against this nation.

I voted for RR because it was the right thing to do. It was good for the nation for a given period of time. I like to consider myself dutiful to this nation first and foremost.

LM is just out and out anti American. I am being kind in large part thinking of her as just outdated. What message would you want to send your kids? One of selfishness and stupidity or one of duty and patriotism?

Dave

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849512 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 3:25 PM
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"LM is just out and out anti American. I am being kind in large part thinking of her as just outdated. What message would you want to send your kids? One of selfishness and stupidity or one of duty and patriotism?"

Agreed. The selfishness and stupidity that accompanies the extremist 'party first' mentality is ultimately anti-American, at its core.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849515 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 3:37 PM
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Says a lot about you, that your hatred for Obama is so intense. You list military deaths that have all resulted for the wars that Idiot Bush started, and blame Obama for them all. Yet that he was responsible for taking out the single worst terrorist and enemy of our country means "big deal" to you.

____________________

Ah yes...the lefties never missed a chance to drag President Bush through the mud and list each and every name of all the American soldiers who died under his watch but here you are as usual nigel groveling for the prez making excuses any way you can to excuse the prez of the deaths UNDER the prez watch, all 70% of them...hohum, nothing else new with you. It's OK with with you our soldiers are dying in record numbers under the prez...Says a lot about you.

Continue with your groveling nigel, the prez is a failure.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849519 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 3:49 PM
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"Continue with your groveling nigel, the prez is a failure. "

LM, be kind to Nigel, for he knows not what he says!

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849522 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 3:55 PM
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You list military deaths that have all resulted for the wars that Idiot Bush started, and blame Obama for them all. Yet that he was responsible for taking out the single worst terrorist and enemy of our country means "big deal" to you.


Afghanistan was not by any means of war of choice. Still Obama advertised he knew how to handle/win that one so please vote for Obama.

Here we are years later, losing worse than ever, with more deaths on Obama's watch and all you can do is Bush was worser.

Lame, man that is just lame.

99

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849523 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 4:10 PM
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Says a lot about you, that your hatred for Obama is so intense. You list military deaths that have all resulted for the wars that Idiot Bush started, and blame Obama for them all. Yet that he was responsible for taking out the single worst terrorist and enemy of our country means "big deal" to you.

____________________

"Ah yes...the lefties never missed a chance to drag President Bush through the mud and list each and every name of all the American soldiers who died under his watch but here you are as usual nigel groveling for the prez making excuses any way you can to excuse the prez of the deaths UNDER the prez watch, all 70% of them...hohum, nothing else new with you. It's OK with with you our soldiers are dying in record numbers under the prez...Says a lot about you."

One question, LM, if you can answer it honestly; Who started those wars? Who chose to invade and occupy those countries? Here's a hint for you - it wasn't Obama.


"Continue with your groveling nigel, the prez is a failure."

You've said so since before he was elected. But Bin Laden is still dead.

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849524 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 4:10 PM
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Dope: "Obama only cares about Obama and destroying the GOP. As a President he's useless."

Textbook:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849525 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 4:14 PM
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"Afghanistan was not by any means of war of choice."

That's nuts. Of course it was. Not saying it wasn't necessary, but it most certainly WAS a war of choice. More like an invasion and occupation of choice.

There were many courses of action that might have been taken to deal with Afghanistan. It is safe to say that what we did was poorly planned, poorly executed, and poorly thought out.

But we did choose to do so.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849531 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 5:30 PM
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There were many courses of action that might have been taken to deal with Afghanistan. It is safe to say that what we did was poorly planned, poorly executed, and poorly thought out.

But we did choose to do so.


So how is Obama , the one, doing in this matter? He said he knew what to do to make it better, but we have what we have. Why is that?

Necessary or war of choice, we are just playing with words. Lots of little brown people dying, mostly on Obama's watch...and for what?

99

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849533 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 5:46 PM
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"Necessary or war of choice, we are just playing with words."

Not at all, it was one path chosen by Bush, and a bad one. As I said, there were many courses of action that COULD have been taken, but Bush chose invasion and occupation. We are stuck with that. It is a lousy situation, but we can't simply walk away.

"Lots of little brown people dying, mostly on Obama's watch...and for what?"

I agree with you, but we are there because Bush made a bad decision and committed us to a rash and stupid course of action. It can't easily be undone. 'On Obama's watch' sounds great if you are anti-Obama, but the reality is that we are there, he has taken responsibility for it, and is trying to wind down our involvement. It is a tragic situation. We can't just leave. What do you suggest Obama do differently?

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849534 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 6:04 PM
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"Necessary or war of choice, we are just playing with words."

Not at all, it was one path chosen by Bush, and a bad one. As I said, there were many courses of action that COULD have been taken, but Bush chose invasion and occupation. We are stuck with that. It is a lousy situation, but we can't simply walk away.


Well Commander Statego, tell me what you told your Congress-person to do and vote for back in 2001 or so?

It can't easily be undone. 'On Obama's watch' sounds great if you are anti-Obama, but the reality is that we are there, he has taken responsibility for it, and is trying to wind down our involvement. It is a tragic situation. We can't just leave. What do you suggest Obama do differently?

No Obama advertised he knew how to win and would do better. He had to know at least what you know when he said it, so where is his performance report?...or did the dog eat it?

I suggest Obama live up to his promises or take them one at a time and discuss with the country why he "changed" his mind. Start with Afghanistan and the wiretap stuff that he railed against, but now has extended until 2017.

What an effing hypocrite and he is alllllllllllllllllll yours!

99

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849535 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 6:13 PM
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Not at all, it was one path chosen by Bush, and a bad one. As I said, there were many courses of action that COULD have been taken, but Bush chose invasion and occupation. We are stuck with that. It is a lousy situation, but we can't simply walk away.
_____________________________________________

Sure we can walk away

In a year it will be like we never went in, Taliban in control, everything back to normal

Obama could have done that on day one

Unless you want to offer a different option that I have not heard, there were 2 options bomb them to the stone ages and let AQ and the Taliban re-establish control or do what we did.

Libs like to play make believe, but when they get to actually do something? They do exactly what they had done nothing but continue the policies they say are absurd and still blame someone else.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849537 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 6:36 PM
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[ Not at all, it was one path chosen by Bush, and a bad one. As I said, there were many courses of action that COULD have been taken, but Bush chose invasion and occupation. We are stuck with that. It is a lousy situation, but we can't simply walk away. ]

"Well Commander Statego, tell me what you told your Congress-person to do and vote for back in 2001 or so?"

??? Not sure what you are getting at. Did you disagree with something I said above?>

---

[It can't easily be undone. 'On Obama's watch' sounds great if you are anti-Obama, but the reality is that we are there, he has taken responsibility for it, and is trying to wind down our involvement. It is a tragic situation. We can't just leave. What do you suggest Obama do differently?]

"No Obama advertised he knew how to win and would do better. He had to know at least what you know when he said it, so where is his performance report?...or did the dog eat it?"

What exactly did he say about 'winning' in Afghanistan? I don't recall it. As far as his performance, it IS 'better' than it was, but I think we should be out already. The military seems to be resisting that.

---

"I suggest Obama live up to his promises or take them one at a time and discuss with the country why he "changed" his mind. Start with Afghanistan and the wiretap stuff that he railed against, but now has extended until 2017."

Please be specific. What exactly did he 'promise' and 'change his mind' about?

---

"What an effing hypocrite and he is alllllllllllllllllll yours!"

He is your President too.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849540 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 6:38 PM
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"Continue with your groveling nigel, the prez is a failure. "

LM, be kind to Nigel, for he knows not what he says

__________________________

I know...It is so pathetic seeing how he grovels for the prez. 70 percent of the deaths belong to the prez because he is such a miserable cic and all he can do is reach in his bag of talking points and fall back on blaming President Bush. Sad.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849548 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 7:02 PM
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"I suggest Obama live up to his promises or take them one at a time and discuss with the country why he "changed" his mind. Start with Afghanistan and the wiretap stuff that he railed against, but now has extended until 2017."

Please be specific. What exactly did he 'promise' and 'change his mind' about?



Over the years we have seen an increasing list of his failures, you mean you can't seem to think one up on your own?

GITMO was to close, one the first things he would do.

The Patriot Act and the wiretapping of US citizens was horrible, yet he extended and enhanced it. He railed against Bush for doing it, but he does it just fine, it seems. He even is about to sign an extension to 2017 or don't you read much? Several have already posted here and on other boards about it.

Shovel ready jobs.....Donte Esta?

Afghanistan is worse than ever, so we leave and the real killing takes place. What did Obama accomplish other than to run up the deaths to beyond the "failed Bush years"? He was eleccted to make it all better and he knew how.

Fail-Fail-Fail-LIED!

This is your man and your choice.

99

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849550 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 7:16 PM
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Sure we can walk away...In a year it will be like we never went in,
Same as when Russia went in and left.

Anybody with half a brain knew that would be the case as soon as Dubya sent in the troops.

"You break it, you bought it", they said.

What, you think there's some magic way to suddenly eliminate the tribal cultures in the middle east?

All the kings horses and all the kings men don't know how... so what's your magic answer to the mess Dubya took us into?

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849553 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 7:23 PM
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Still Obama advertised he knew how to handle/win that one so please vote for Obama.

______________________

That's right. It was a prez campaign promise. In '08 he told the American people he would successfully run the war in Afghanistan, but all the prez did was refuse to take any responsibility for his failures and dither away months and months not able to make any decisions to send in the troop he had promised.

And now nigel thinks the Afghan war has been won because OBL is dead.

Nothing, absolutely nothing has changed.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849555 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 7:28 PM
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"And now nigel thinks the Afghan war has been won because OBL is dead.

Nothing, absolutely nothing has changed. "

They also thought Al Qaeda was beaten...Morons

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849556 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 7:31 PM
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One question, LM, if you can answer it honestly; Who started those wars? Who chose to invade and occupy those countries? Here's a hint for you - it wasn't Obama.

__________________________

Well, now I get where you are coming from. America was invaded, 3,000 Americans died and you would just say, drat...stop that OBL. Then crawl in a hole till you thought it was safe to come out again...got it.
Yep, that's our nigel.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849557 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 7:32 PM
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What, you think there's some magic way to suddenly eliminate the tribal cultures in the middle east?

All the kings horses and all the kings men don't know how... so what's your magic answer to the mess Dubya took us into?
___________________________

We didn't break the tribal culture, get the heck out, it will revert to what it was, as if we never went in

What do you think will be different if we leave then when we got there?

What did we break, that we have not fixed?

All this we can't do this or that

We can let it go back to what it was, and what it would have been had we not gone in

It will be a home for the Taliban, and a staging base for AQ. That is fine as we should not have gone in.

What harm in letting it revert what difference what did we break?

Those are all valid arguments for Iraq, they are nonsense in Afghanistan, unless we have a reason for not wanting what it used to be.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849563 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 7:48 PM
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99: .... Obama advertised he knew how to win ...

Can you cite any speech or event where Obama said "I know how to win in Afghanistan?"

It should be reallly easy for you to do so if he said that.

I have a hunch you cannot.

Why?

Because like your birther past, it's just MUS.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849569 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:11 PM
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They also thought Al Qaeda was beaten...Morons

_____________________________

Morons indeed!

Remember how "al Qaeda is on the run" was dropped from the prez campaign speeches?

'Under the prez watch Al-Qaeda making comeback in Iraq.'

"But now, Iraqi and U.S. officials say, the insurgent group has more than doubled in numbers from a year ago — from about 1,000 to 2,500 fighters. And it is carrying out an average of 140 attacks each week across Iraq, up from 75 attacks each week earlier this year, according to Pentagon data."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2012/10/09/al-qaeda...

But so what? Who cares? nigel thinks all is well because the prez kilt OBL.

"Then again, it’s ludicrous for Obama to claim al-Qaeda is on the path to defeat when they control most of Mali (an area the size of France) and are on the verge of seizing control of Syria. If anything, al-Qaeda has never been stronger."

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/12/24/obama-on-second-thought-m...

But so what? Who cares? nigel thinks all is well because the prez kilt OBL.

"While under Obama's watch some terrorist leaders have been killed, Al Qaeda's ideology remains strong in many parts of the world. Al Qaeda, during Obama's tenure, has gained influence in Yemen, Somalia, Mali, Nigeria, Libya, Algeria, Kenya and elsewhere. And in Pakistan, where drones have killed hundreds of suspected militants, average Pakistanis — fed up with the strikes — have begun to turn against the United States and toward the militants."

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/uni...

But so what? Who cares? nigel thinks all is well because the prez kilt OBL.

Yep, OBL is dead. The birds are singing, the flowers are blooming, the sky is blue...all because OBL is dead.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849571 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:14 PM
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"Fail-Fail-Fail-LIED!

This is your man and your choice."

---

OK. Now, every single President has not fulfilled campaign promises. Bush didn't believe in nation building, for example. Bush Sr said no new taxes. Etc,. etc. I am disappointed as you are in the extension of the Patriot, as well as his failure to close GITMO. Does that mean I think the is a failure as a President? No. Our other option was McCain and his idiot VP, Palin. No way, sorry.

As long as I've been voting, there has never been a President that I thought did everything perfectly. Apparently, this is something you expect. Has there been a President that you believe fulfilled all of his campaign promises???

Good luck with that.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849574 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:22 PM
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[One question, LM, if you can answer it honestly; Who started those wars? Who chose to invade and occupy those countries? Here's a hint for you - it wasn't Obama.]

__________________________

"Well, now I get where you are coming from. America was invaded, 3,000 Americans died and you would just say, drat...stop that OBL. Then crawl in a hole till you thought it was safe to come out again...got it.
Yep, that's our nigel."

So your answer is? No, you can't answer that simple question. You hate Obama, and love Bush. All other considerations don't matter in the least to you. That Bush start those wars of choice and is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of young Americans, and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis does not bother you in the least. But you can't even bring yourself to answer that simple question. Here is your answer;

Bush the Lesser chose to invade and occupy Iraq and Afghanistan, and did so poorly, and at a staggeringly high cost that we could ill afford.

That Obama took out one of our worst enemies, you say 'pffft'. You still just hate him. You are an interesting case, LM.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849575 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:24 PM
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"And now nigel thinks the Afghan war has been won because OBL is dead."

I said nothing even remotely like that. Wrong again, LM.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849576 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:27 PM
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"They also thought Al Qaeda was beaten...Morons"

Who is 'they'? No one thought that. You'd have to be very uninformed to believe that. Heck even you don't think it is true!

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849577 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:30 PM
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"But so what? Who cares? nigel thinks all is well because the prez kilt OBL."

Stop lying, LM. I didn't say that, either. What is it with you, do you miss him, or what? Do you think the world would be a better place if Obama had not had him taken out?

Why do you hate America?

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849578 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:34 PM
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"Can you cite any speech or event where Obama said "I know how to win in Afghanistan?"

No, of course he cannot. But these folks truly believe that McCain would have magically cleaned up the mess left in the ME by Bush the Lesser, while Palin kept an eye on Russia from her back porch.

Optimistic, in a really dense sort of way.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849581 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:38 PM
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Can you cite any speech or event where Obama said "I know how to win in Afghanistan?"

It should be reallly easy for you to do so if he said that.

I have a hunch you cannot.

Why?

Because like your birther past, it's just MUS.

_________________________________

Not the prez exact words but they are close enough...Not MUS.


"WASHINGTON – Contending that the U.S. is not pursuing a sound strategy for keeping Americans safe, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Tuesday that fighting al-Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan would be his top priority after ending the war in Iraq.

"This is a war that we have to win," Obama said in remarks prepared for delivery at the International Trade Center in Washington."

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-afghanistan-a-war-w...

On second though...the prez wouldn't have a stinkin' clue how to win in Afghanistan. As a cic the prez is clueless.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849582 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:47 PM
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"Not the prez exact words but they are close enough...Not MUS."

Bzzzt! Wrong yet again, LM.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849584 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:48 PM
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Can you cite any speech or event where Obama said "I know how to win in Afghanistan?"

It should be reallly easy for you to do so if he said that.

I have a hunch you cannot.

Why?


Obama was elected because he could do better. Did you vote for him because you expected him to do worse? He promised to end the troop occupation in Afghanistan by July 2011. Fail.

He promised to "fully and properly equip our troops". Why, so they could "win" of course, but that didn't happen either. Fail.

He promised to "train and equip the Afghan army". Now train and equip them for what, to loose? Fail

He has run up more deaths than under Bush and the ones under Bush were real bad,eh. How do you like the ones under Obama and why so quite about them? Why is Afghanistan worse off than ever with all those promises and ability to make things better so evident that you would vote for the toad?

Fail, fail, fail. Obama owns it and so do you.

99

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849585 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:51 PM
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OK. Now, every single President has not fulfilled campaign promises. Bush didn't believe in nation building, for example. Bush Sr said no new taxes. Etc,. etc. I am disappointed as you are in the extension of the Patriot, as well as his failure to close GITMO. Does that mean I think the is a failure as a President? No. Our other option was McCain and his idiot VP, Palin. No way, sorry.

As long as I've been voting, there has never been a President that I thought did everything perfectly. Apparently, this is something you expect. Has there been a President that you believe fulfilled all of his campaign promises???

Good luck with that.


Your disappointment is mired in rationalization by lowering the bar. Obama did not deliver, on the war, on jobs, on the economy, on wiretap policy, man this is a major fail, not just an little bump in the road.

99

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849586 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:53 PM
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America was invaded

It was? I missed the memo.


3,000 Americans died

If you consider a suicide attack to be an invasion, then Oklahoma was invaded..... and Columbine was invaded.

Newtown CT was just invaded, then

and you would just say, drat...stop that OBL

Bush who said that. How quicklywingnuts forget.

Remembertime: Obama had OBL killed.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849587 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 8:56 PM
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It will be a home for the Taliban, and a staging base for AQ. That is fine as we should not have gone in.

That's what drones, tomahawks and daisy cutters are for.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849588 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 9:29 PM
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"Your disappointment is mired in rationalization by lowering the bar. Obama did not deliver, on the war, on jobs, on the economy, on wiretap policy, man this is a major fail, not just an little bump in the road."

Quite the contrary. My few disappointments with Obama were not unexpected, as I explained earlier, since every President in my memory has broken some campaign promises. I think he HAS delivered. Yes, jobs are still a major concern, but the wars have been wound down greatly, wiretap policy is pretty much unchanged (and does not really affect me).

Your insistence that he has 'failed' implies that you think another option would have been better. Do you think McCain would have had some magical method of turning the economy around? Sorry, I don't buy it. The reality is that our economy is slowly, sluggishly recovering. There is no magic that will make it any different. It is going to take time, but we are heading in a much better direction now than we were when he took office.

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Author: richieds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849589 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 9:51 PM
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"Obama not making new 'cliff' offer"

Why would Obama make another offer?

Any offer that includes a tax hike of any kind will be rejected by the GOP House.

It's up to the GOP to make a move on a tax hike. If they are not willing to move then it's over the cliff we go. Pure and simple.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849592 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 10:07 PM
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I said

"Madoff didn't send government agents to my door and tell me I was going to jail if I did not invest with him."

Uh, who did? Agents at somebody's door? Did I miss a big story, or is somebody having some fun hallucinations?


<crickets>

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849593 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 10:10 PM
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InconclusiveFool says

The $800B pork-u-lus was relatively useless as well.

Compared to the national economy coming to a screeching halt? Well, whatever.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849594 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 10:12 PM
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"Compared to the national economy coming to a screeching halt? "

It did and the 800 billion $ porkulus didn't do a darn thing!

Keynesian theory is hogwash. Sooner you learn it the better for everyone else.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849597 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 10:27 PM
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"Yeah? Well big deal..." - LurkerMom

<snip>

Whose side are you on, anyway?


Easy. The side of the Repugnantcan Party. Party first! Country? "Big deal".

That's how far off the rails the right-wing has gone.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849598 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 10:31 PM
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"Easy. The side of the Repugnantcan Party. Party first! Country? "Big deal".
"

You need to look in the mirror, because your own party is playing party first. Why do you think the dims haven't passed a budget in over 3 1/2 years?? It's because they don't want to put their name to any position.

The dims are party first and big fat cowards!

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849601 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 11:22 PM
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You need to look in the mirror, because your own party is playing party first.

I have no party. But I assume you're referring to the Dems. And you're incorrect. Nothing can get through the House for the past two years, and before that there was not a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate either. Obama has attempted on numerous times to negotiate in good faith. That was probably his big mistake because "the other side" has no good faith anymore. If they don't get their way, they stamp their feet and hold their breath. If they had a ball they'd take it and go home.

In any event, you are correct that no budget (good, bad, or otherwise) has been passed by the Senate. At least I tend to think so.** Those passed by the House have been symbolic (representing the dementia of the Treason Party), with full knowledge they would not survive (see, for example, the Ryan Budget). You are, however, in correct about the Dems. And even many of the Repugs. The Treason Party is the problem, and at present the Repugs own them (or is it vice versa?).

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/apr/...

The president can cajole Congress about passing a budget and advocate for positions and funding levels, but in the end, Congress approves the budget resolution for their own purposes.


**There is the argument that the legislation passed last year was, in fact, a budget. I can see that argument but I'm not sure I agree. Politifact clearly doesn't agree or they would have said so in the previous link.

http://democrats.senate.gov/2012/01/24/fact-sheet-responding...

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849602 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/29/2012 11:40 PM
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99Obama was elected because.... blah blah blah

In other words, Obama never said "i know how to win"

You were just tuggin' it....again.

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Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849622 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/30/2012 8:25 AM
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Initially we were going to get bin Laden and stomp AQ, not to build a nation where there's never been one. We should have been out months ago and let the Afghans resume their national sport: tribal warfare.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849634 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/30/2012 10:10 AM
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It will be a home for the Taliban, and a staging base for AQ. That is fine as we should not have gone in.

That's what drones, tomahawks and daisy cutters are for.
____________________________________

YEs, and we never used those before we went in.

As I said, if we want Afghanistan as it was before we went in, then we can do that today. I thought we should do just as you say and just bomb them incredibly severely and warn we would do it again.

But make no mistake AQ would still exist and the Taliban would still be in charge.

But rather than that we wasted a few years lots of gold and lives and when Obama bails, the Taliban will be in control and all along AQ has continued to exist.

What is wrong with Obama? That he knew he was going to bail for 4 years and a few more, and let his own people die and pay for war when he knows he is going to bale and he told that to everyone.

Bush at least was dumb enough to think he could change things and make things better. Obama is just letting more folks die and spending more money for cosmetic reasons. Is one worse for the country than the other? Tough call, but I find one far more distasteful.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849644 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/30/2012 10:57 AM
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In other words, Obama never said "i know how to win"

You were just tuggin' it....again.


Yeah, and he was elected because he didn't know squat about Afghanistan, how to arm, train and supply them, nor did he know how to "bring our troops home" cuz he multiplied the numbers and the deaths....yeah, he got elected to do all that and still have it worse than when he got elected.

Putz away.

99

PS There is also shovel ready jobs that never happened, lowering the deficit by one half, it increased, unemployment no where near his promised rate, GITMO...hey you already know the score, start spanking Obama and not your monkey.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849788 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/30/2012 9:21 PM
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Obama not making new 'cliff' offer
==================================

That's because people are hip to him and have learned he doesn't keep his word and keeps changing the goal posts after each offer. No one cares about his offers anymore because they are meaningless and hollow ones.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849847 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 9:47 AM
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"Yeah? Well big deal..." - LurkerMom

<snip>

Whose side are you on, anyway?

Easy. The side of the Repugnantcan Party. Party first! Country? "Big deal".

That's how far off the rails the right-wing has gone.

_____________________

Better than the side you support...It's A-OK with you the prez owns 70% of the Afghan deaths of our soldiers and the horrendous suicide rate...got it.

Remind me again 1poorguy how wonderful it is the prez killed OBL. Tell us what has changed besides more and more Americans have been killed since then.

So, carry on 1poorguy with the prez groveling. You amuse me as much as nigel does with his groveling.
Perhaps you can tell us how the birds are singing and the flowers are blooming and the wonderful world we live in now that OBL is dead.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849855 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 10:07 AM
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"It's A-OK with you the prez owns 70% of the Afghan deaths of our soldiers and the horrendous suicide rate...got it."

What choice did he have? The mess that Bush the Lesser left is the direct cause of these deaths. Your death count belongs at Bush's door. Obama did not just yank our troops out when he took office, which seems to be what you are suggesting he should have done to avoid these troop deaths. Did you think this through? That would have been a worse mistake than Bush made by starting it.


"Remind me again 1poorguy how wonderful it is the prez killed OBL. Tell us what has changed besides more and more Americans have been killed since then."

So, you think we should not have taken out OBL? Seriously, whose side ARE you on?



"So, carry on 1poorguy with the prez groveling. You amuse me as much as nigel does with his groveling."

Ah, there it is. I knew you couldn't go for long without using your favorite word. I don't believe you comprehend the correct meaning of the word, though. You might want to look it up. You use it incorrectly.



"Perhaps you can tell us how the birds are singing and the flowers are blooming and the wonderful world we live in now that OBL is dead."

You wish he was still alive. Wow.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849857 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 10:20 AM
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What choice did he have?

He could choose all kinds of things. Start with providing the necessary training and tools to win like he said he would. Except all that has failed. Put in more troops, or less, or leave because as it is now is not much different than what it was.

Bomb them into submission like you think was an original option.....well ok give it a try.

But take responsibility for what you do or don't do and quit whining.

Get 'er done or get out of town and let someone else do it.

99

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849865 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 10:39 AM
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"He could choose all kinds of things. Start with providing the necessary training and tools to win like he said he would. Except all that has failed. Put in more troops, or less, or leave because as it is now is not much different than what it was."

It isn't a winnable scenario, IMHO.

"Bomb them into submission like you think was an original option.....well ok give it a try."

No, not a good option.

"But take responsibility for what you do or don't do and quit whining."

He has taken responsibility. He is doing what he thinks is best.

"Get 'er done or get out of town and let someone else do it."

It will likely be resolved one way or another by the time he 'gets out of town'.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849995 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 4:19 PM
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He got OBL. He has pulled us out of one of the TWO wars that GWB got us into. And it seems likely he'll get us out of the second one before his term is up.

Can't ask for much more than that, especially given the pile of crap left by his predecessor. It took a lot of shoveling just to get to this point, and more shoveling is going to be needed. GWB left a lot to be shoveled.

Not that this has anything to do with the so-called "cliff", which we will be going over because of the Treason Party.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849999 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 4:40 PM
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He is following Bush's plan to the tee for leaving Iraq, in Afghanistan Obama is ramped up the troops, ramped up the deaths and ramped up the failure, so Wow...what a job! You "wouldn't" ask for more than that, unless it was Bush or someone else other than Obama.

99

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850005 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 5:10 PM
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" He is following Bush's plan to the tee for leaving Iraq, in Afghanistan Obama is ramped up the troops, ramped up the deaths and ramped up the failure, so Wow...what a job! You "wouldn't" ask for more than that, unless it was Bush or someone else other than Obama.
"

So, if Bush was still in office, you'd be singing his praises, but since Obama is there, it's all bad. Gotcha.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850009 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 5:16 PM
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"So, if Bush was still in office, you'd be singing his praises, but since Obama is there, it's all bad. Gotcha. "

Admitting your own faults I see. Good for you!

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850016 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 5:25 PM
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"So, if Bush was still in office, you'd be singing his praises, but since Obama is there, it's all bad. Gotcha. "

Admitting your own faults I see. Good for you!

__________________________

It's about time. The prez groveling is so embarrassing.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850019 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 5:28 PM
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So, if Bush was still in office, you'd be singing his praises, but since Obama is there, it's all bad. Gotcha.

Not so much, no. I'd be asking when is this thing going to be over, when do we normalize at home, lots of other questions.

I would not be bashing Bush to get elected, then carry on with so many of his objected to policies and expect to not be called a hypocrit. If I said I had the answers to get elected it would be logical to expect me to deliver, unless I am a hypocrit.

The truth is you recognize there are no pretty ways out or solutions that seem workable any longer, and rather than blame Obama for having no answers, you go back to a safe Bush bashing. Even if you don't recognize it, I sure do.

Someday you will come around and hold Obama responsible for something...then again, I am not holding my breath.

99

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850024 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 5:45 PM
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Someday you will come around and hold Obama responsible for something...then again, I am not holding my breath.

I hold him responsible for lots of things he did (and didn't do but should have). I imagine Nigel does too. The two wars aren't among them (except that he hasn't pulled us out of a no-win situation fast enough...the time will never be "right", IMO, so best to just leave).

1poorguy

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850028 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 5:54 PM
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"The truth is you recognize there are no pretty ways out or solutions that seem workable any longer, and rather than blame Obama for having no answers, you go back to a safe Bush bashing. Even if you don't recognize it, I sure do."

I only Bush bash because the wars, the deaths, the cost are all entirely his fault. If Obama invades and occupies a few countries, does it poorly and with no plan, no exit strategy, I will bash him or that endlessly. He hasn't done any of those things.

I have recognized that Afghanistan was a no-win situation from the beginning.

I hold Obama accountable for the things he said he would do and has not, like closing Gitmo.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850030 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 6:03 PM
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"So, if Bush was still in office, you'd be singing his praises, but since Obama is there, it's all bad. Gotcha. "

Admitting your own faults I see. Good for you!

---

This response makes no sense. Were you responding to something else, another thread, or just lashing out randomly?

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850034 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 6:11 PM
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"I hold him responsible for lots of things he did (and didn't do but should have). I imagine Nigel does too. The two wars aren't among them (except that he hasn't pulled us out of a no-win situation fast enough...the time will never be "right", IMO, so best to just leave)."

Well said, and I agree. There are lots of things I am unhappy with Obama about, but the two wars hang around Bush the Lesser's neck forever. This idea that the mess Bush left is somehow Obama's fault now that time has passed is lunacy.

I hold Bush responsible for what he did and didn't do just like those that are now saying I don't hold Obama responsible for anything. I do. He just hasn't done anything as incredibly stupid as Bush did.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850035 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 6:13 PM
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"It's about time. The prez groveling is so embarrassing"

What is the "groveling" count up to, LM? You should really find a new word to use. Really.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850041 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 6:33 PM
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I hold Obama accountable for the things he said he would do and has not, like closing Gitmo.

A rather brief list don't you think?

99

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850045 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 6:43 PM
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"A rather brief list don't you think?"

There are a number of things - that was just an example. It is a far shorter list than Bush's, though.

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Author: 99lashes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850050 of 1977498
Subject: Re: Obama not making new 'cliff' offer Date: 12/31/2012 7:06 PM
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There are a number of things - that was just an example. It is a far shorter list than Bush's, though.

So how many of those many things on the Bush list that Obama extended, added to or did nothing about do you have an issue with still?

I bet with Bush gone, so are most of the issues, otherwise you would have a much longer list and be more vocal about it.

99

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