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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 745890  
Subject: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/28/2013 9:59 PM
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More from Karl Denninger.

Good read.

Mike

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=225427

We can fix the health system and its explosive cost for Americans any time we are willing to demand it. But you cannot get there from here by demanding that one person be robbed to pay for another person's doctor or pharmacy bill. You can only get there by allowing the market to work, and this means ending all means of legalized extortion and theft in the medical system that exist today.
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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 702961 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 12:08 AM
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Tonight I tuned in for a while to MSNBC. Chris Matthews bloviated about how OwebamaKare is "exceeding all expectations," and "it's going to be so great for America. Why, five or ten years from now, we'll wonder what we were so upset about."

http://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/where-is-the-aca-working...

Then I tuned into Fox for a while where Greta Van Susteren bloviated about how the wheels are coming off OwebamaKare, millions and millions of Americans are experiencing sticker shock and how, five or ten years from now, we'll be up to our eyeballs in even more debt.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-the-record/index.html

One of these POVs is wrong or will be proven in hindsight to have been wrong. I oppose OwebamaKare solely on economic grounds; that is, nearly all the people benefitting from free healthcare are doing so on the backs of middle America. This isn't right or moral.

The Republicans had better come up with a better plan, win some elections and repeal and replace OwebamaKare before we as a nation get flushed down tbe toilet for good.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 702969 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 8:18 AM
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Mark Levin already had one story where someone had tried to sign up (failing) so he could schedule his needed surgery in January.

The wheels are going to come off in the first 3 months as millions with chronic health problems immediately try to schedule major operations..bypass surgery....transplants....hip replacements...etc...

they'll find first they can't find a doc, or their current doc is no longer in network....then find it will be 6-12 months to schedule an appointment and a year or two before they might get their operation.


going to be interesting.

Mid term elections, are, what next fall?


t.

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Author: THEMATHISNEAR Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 702985 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 10:06 AM
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they'll find first they can't find a doc, or their current doc is no longer in network....then find it will be 6-12 months to schedule an appointment and a year or two before they might get their operation.

Just watch. People will die, and it will not be covered by the MSM. If it becomes a big story despite the MSM trying to bury it, it will be the Republicans fault. If that doesn't wash, it will be the fault of the individual.

At no point must Zero or the agenda of total State control be questioned.

I wish I were kidding.

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703028 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 3:03 PM
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... OwebamaKare is "exceeding all expectations," and "it's going to be so great for America.

It is exceeding expectations...at the acceleration for a push for single payer system. Too many assume that they want Obamacare to actually work. Make it a colossal failure and the fools will clamor for a solution.

JLC

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Author: SpeedBump13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703070 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 8:43 PM
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this means ending all means of legalized extortion and theft in the medical system that exist today.

You're for eliminating health insurance companies? Me too. Single payer is the way to go. Sometimes RECF surprises me.

"insurers skim off 15-20 percent of premium dollars for administrative costs and profits."

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2009/08/05/170897/are-health...

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703075 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 9:26 PM
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"insurers skim off 15-20 percent of premium dollars for administrative costs and profits."

So they're supposed to work for nothing? Typical librul. Here's a conversation I had with a friend today.

CC: A lot of physicians are going to leave the profession.

Librul Friend: Why?

CC: Well, after all the effort to train to be a physician, OwebamaKare will result in them making less money for longer hours.

LF: Oh, you mean $300,000 instead of $350,000?

CC: Well, yes. I don't want a lot of bright Americans electing to NOT attend medical school, do you?

LF: They can live quite well on $300,000.

CC: That's not the point. Would YOU spend 12 years in graduate school and training, only to have the government dictate how much you're going to make?

LF: Yes.

CC: You would not! After all that sacrificing while others are out making money, you would NOT like the government setting your pay!

LF: Doctors make too much money, anyway.

Can't fix stupid.

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703078 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 9:37 PM
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Here's a conversation I had with a friend today

I look for the frontal lobotomy scar. Once I see it, I politely excuse myself. Worse than talking to the dog.

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703079 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 9:40 PM
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"insurers skim off 15-20 percent of premium dollars for administrative costs and profits."

Little does this rocket scientist realize that a nice chunk of that overhead is taken up with complying with the rules and regulations imposed by government. During the run-up to the passage of Obamacare numerous links were posted about the profit margin of the health insurance industry as being between 3-5%. Like CC said, you can't fix stupid.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703094 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 10:50 PM
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Doctors do make too much money. It took three months to pay off medical school. Another year bought a house and now we save a million dollars every three years. We can't even begin to spend all the money my wife earns. ~SpeedBump13

You are indeed a speed bump. Why don't you just send your excess to the government?

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703096 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 11:09 PM
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You [SpeedBump13] are stupid and no one will believe your claims. If you are so successful, why are u posting here?

Now wait a minute. <g> We have quite a few very financially successful people who post here. What's stupid about SpeedBump13's post is that there's a simple solution to SpeedBump13's obvious distaste for his own success. All he needs to do is send the "millions" he and his wife can't possibly spend directly to the U.S. Treasury. Or he and his wife could provide immeasurable instances of medical services for free to the very people he by his attitude purports to support. Many MANY physicians do just that.

Doctors Without Borders
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...

Of course, he won't do that because he's disingenuous at worst and hypocritical at best. But then he's a lib, so he's programmed to be disingenous and hypocritical.


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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703097 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 11:11 PM
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SpeedBump, do you and your wife at least DONATE some of your millions to your colleagues who DO volunteer their skill and time to help others?

Doctors Without Borders (love these folks!)
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/donate/truenorth/alt/l...

If not, why not?

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Author: Jim2B Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703098 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 11:22 PM
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Of course, he won't do that because he's disingenuous at worst and hypocritical at best. But then he's a lib, so he's programmed to be disingenous and hypocritical.

He could simply be (and probably is) lying.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703099 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/29/2013 11:36 PM
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He could simply be (and probably is) lying.

Yeah, he doesn't sound very bright.

I admire physicians. I appreciate them and totally get the sacrifices they make to attend school many years longer than the majority of people.

But! The free market, not the government, should dictate what they make. When I underwent my first (and only) surgery (bunionectomy), I shopped around. I compared and contrasted their reputations and their fees. Granted, one can't shop around when one suffers an aneurism or needs other emergency care, but physicians can post their base rates with a ceiling on the total amount they're paid in the event extra effort is required to get the job done. When one is considering plastic surgery, the process is the same: shop around, interview surgeons and arrive at an informed decision.

Nearly everyone shops for dentristry, do they not? Why can't the same effort be made when care for one's body is the service to be purchased?

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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703102 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 6:56 AM
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He could simply be (and probably is) lying.

Jim2B


That would be my assumption as well. Occam's Razor comes to mind.

Mike

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Author: MrCheeryO Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703151 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 12:57 PM
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...CC: That's not the point. Would YOU spend 12 years in graduate school and training, only to have the government dictate how much you're going to make?...

Don't know where in the ACA the government dictates salaries. Maybe in reimbursement rates for Medicare and Medicaid. Of course physicians are free to opt out of Medicare and Medicaid, as well as the ACA.

Physicians' Incomes and Healthcare Costs, Greg Mankiw, conservative economist and Bush appointee.

...Physicians’ incomes are much higher in the United States than they are in other OECD countries. In 1996, the most recent year for which data are available for multiple countries, the average U.S. physician income was $199,000. The comparable OECD median physician income was $70,324....Etc.

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.ca/2009/06/physicians-incomes-and...

I do think emergency room physicians probably deserve more. Good show the other night on the insane procedures and economics of emergency room care. For the poor, glad to see Kasich (R) acknowledge that there is a War on the Poor and Kasich will take the Medicaid funds. The ACA is doing so much good and will be fine.

Far more important, Seattle Seahawks 7-1, on the way to the Superbowl. Who needs an offensive line?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703152 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 1:08 PM
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Cheerie Oats posts.:"...Physicians’ incomes are much higher in the United States than they are in other OECD countries. In 1996, the most recent year for which data are available for multiple countries, the average U.S. physician income was $199,000. The comparable OECD median physician income was $70,324....Etc."


Yeah..but they get free education paid for by the taxpayer.... so they graduate with no debt.

They also tend to work 9-5 five days a week...and could care less if you need an operation..hey, they just work 40 hours a week (or 35) depending on their 'contract'.

In England, half the doctors speak ENGLISH as a second language and come from outside the country. Few in England want to work for a pittance. Heck, if you are smart, become an investment banker, retire by 50, and watch your physician friend work to 65, then retire on a 'government pension' to some little town where they can afford tolive.


Of course, you forgot to tell us the average income of most Europeans...and the fact that they pay 20% more in taxes......and that engineers here make 30-40% more....than in Europe....

if you want to see how bad the situation is ...just look at the Veterans Administration..they'll hire any incompetent doc as long as he/she breathes and had a 'certificate' ...... and the results show.

remember the islam-oh nut case Hassan at Ft Hood in TX? He was a Veterans Admin doc. showed up for 1/3rd of his scheduled appointments. Didn't care about the ones he did show up for. They couldn't fire him. So.....folks suffered but he was a 'warm body' filling a 'spot' in the government 'hierarchy'...and that is what national health care is. Endless bureaucracy.

talk to anyone who tries to get anything out of Veterans health care!....the waits!...the lines!...even for routine stuff! They line up 50-100 deep down in the Dallas facility.....every week...just to 'get an appointment' to see a doc. ! who half the time doesn't show up anyway!


t

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703159 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 1:37 PM
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telegraph, it's pointless to discuss adult topics with libruls.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703161 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 1:42 PM
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CC"telegraph, it's pointless to discuss adult topics with libruls. "


You're right..they just want more 'free candy' all the time.


t.

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Author: katinga Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703171 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 3:09 PM
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People are going to die. When their relatives begin to attribute that to Obama, there'll be some shifts of affiliation.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703180 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 3:54 PM
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People are going to die. When their relatives begin to attribute that to Obama, there'll be some shifts of affiliation.

How do you anticipate this will manifest?

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Author: katinga Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703183 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 4:13 PM
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How do you anticipate this will manifest?

Maybe a shift from Obamaist to undecided in the poll?

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703189 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 5:01 PM
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Can't fix stupid.

We have a saying in anesthesia, "We can't fix stupid but we sure as hell can sedate it."

JLC

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Author: SpeedBump13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703198 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 5:46 PM
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You are stupid and no one will believe you claims.

If you are so successful, why are u posting here?


CathCoy replied to me so I replied to her.

Not that replying to you isn't a complete waste of time, but I never said I'm successful. I just have a rich wife and counting her money gets boring.

I get that you hate and fear what you don't understand, but you might want to lighten up and learn something.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703203 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 6:05 PM
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People are going to die. When their relatives begin to attribute that to Obama, there'll be some shifts of affiliation.

How do you anticipate this will manifest?


With a demand for single-payer to save us from the free market.

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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703204 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 6:13 PM
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>>People are going to die. When their relatives begin to attribute that to Obama, there'll be some shifts of affiliation.<<

How do you anticipate this will manifest?


People will start shipping the dead bodies of their relatives as campaign donations to Democrats.

1HF

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703206 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 7:02 PM
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I meant, what does katings mean by "People are going to die."

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Author: katinga Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703227 of 745890
Subject: Re: ObamaCare already detonating Date: 10/30/2013 10:35 PM
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I meant, what does katings mean by "People are going to die."

Somebody's health insurance expires. The system is incapable of getting the client new insurance. Client has a medical condition and can't pay for it, or condition worsens and becomes terminal. Client dies.

I saw this happen with a self-employed guy who dropped his insurance (too expensive). He was 64. He developed brain cancer. Couldn't pay for treatment. Died before Medicare could kick in.

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