UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (38) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1977205  
Subject: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/4/2013 7:54 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Say, maybe you've asked yourself this question: "Self, we're kinda adding jobs at a slow rate. How long would it take Obama's economy to get back to where we were before the financial crash?"

Glad you asked!

http://www.hamiltonproject.org/jobs_gap/

Go ahead, punch in today's number of 155,000 jobs added. At this rate, Obama will have pre-recession employment all sewn up by...2025!

But don't worry, gang. We only need to increase that number to 325,000 a month, each and every month, to get back to where we were...by the end of Obama's second term.

Remember when libs used to point at Bush's 5-6% unemployment rates and whine about jobless recoveries? Good times, good times.
Print the post Back To Top
Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1850998 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/4/2013 8:53 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 32
Each month, The Hamilton Project examines the “jobs gap,” which is the number of jobs that the U.S. economy needs to create in order to return to pre-recession employment levels while also absorbing the people who enter the labor force each month.

Since the 2008 recession caused the jobs gap, wouldn't that make it Bush's jobs gap, not Obama's?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Umm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851016 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/5/2013 5:59 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
"Since the 2008 recession caused the jobs gap, wouldn't that make it Bush's jobs gap, not Obama's? "

I wonder if Dope even realizes that Obama is going to add more jobs his first term than Bush did. Probably not as I am pretty sure this fact is ignored in the echo chamber.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851072 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/5/2013 12:34 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 32
Say, maybe you've asked yourself this question: "Self, we're kinda adding jobs at a slow rate. How long would it take Obama's economy to get back to where we were before the financial crash?"

Given that the employment number was based on a housing bubble which provided hundreds of thousands of unsustainable jobs in lending, construction, finance, legal, furnishings, and more, doesn't it seem odd to say "And this is the ideal we're striving for"?

Alan Greenspan's vision of easy money and the disaster it created dwarfs your other Republican heros, like Arthur Burns, and yet you complain that the economy isn't right back where it was when your boys were running the bus off the cliff.

Here's what we've learned, now for the third time (1930's, 1970's, 2008's): when you destroy the economy with your shortsighted economic policies, it takes quite a while to clean up the mess.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851097 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/5/2013 1:57 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1

Here's what we've learned, now for the third time (1930's, 1970's, 2008's): when you destroy the economy with your shortsighted economic policies, it takes quite a while to clean up the mess.


Yep. Shortsighted economic policies like codifying bailouts, forcing banks to make loans, lowering of credit standards, that sort of thing? Or were you referring to crony capitalist money handoff schemes to big donors in green energy programs, ill-conceived tax "credits" and injecting uncertainty into the economy?

Or maybe you meant onerous regulations that shift with the wind or are undefined? Or other ones that we need to pass to find out what's in them?

I'm sure that's what you meant.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851185 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/5/2013 9:45 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 24
Shortsighted economic policies like ...forcing banks to make loans,

Are you guys STILL spouting that "CRA caused the big crash" nonsense? Really?

Well, what should I expect from a guy who INSISTED that there was NO WAY Obama could possibly get more than 277 EV's, and even that number was pretty optimistic.

At one point in the past you weren't detached from reality. Dunno what happened to push you that far into the "blinded by partisan bias" arena, but there you are.

Seriously, drop the "gummint forced banks to make loans" line, it pretty much insures that anyone listening should ignore anything you say. You're in Right Wing Talk Radio territory there.

(BTW, for the record, the overwhelming number of home loans made late last decade were from institutions that were not subject to the CRA, and those loans that were subject to CRA actually had BETTER performance metrics than those which were not. But hey, let's not let any facts get in the way of your ideological bias. Like those damn pre-election polls, we all know Facts Have A Liberal Bias. Keep looking for something, ANYTHING that you can argue supports your beliefs)

Print the post Back To Top
Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851216 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:07 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 66
That's called a strawman. It's a logical fallacy used by people who can't argue very well.

So, you're saying that your comment that banks were "forced to make loans" ISN'T true? Because they weren't, ya know. But I'm sorry that you don't know how to argue well.

I've posted at length the causes of the fin crash because I took the time to read up on it. Evidently you haven't.

And those causes, in your mind, are tied to banks being forced to make loans? Because if so, you're wrong. And I've also "posted at length about the causes of the crash", actually I was foreseeing it back in the fall of 2006, before it became a political issue. You, I'm guessing, notsomuch.

This is ad hominem. Here's another example: so's your mother.

PA libs dish it out, but can't take it.


Dope, you're not even worth wasting the time to put any effort into arguing with. All you ever do is ad hominem. Even when you're proven wrong, over and over again. Why don't you back to Conservative Fools and chant "Baghdad Nate" over and over again, or whatever the heck it is that's now on your radar. Probably taxes, and how you need REAL Conservatives running or something.

-synchronicity

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851217 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:37 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
So, you're saying that your comment that banks were "forced to make loans" ISN'T true? Because they weren't, ya know. But I'm sorry that you don't know how to argue well.

More Fail. You dishonestly claimed that I said it was the sole cause. I said nothing of the kind, which makes you 100% wrong.

What was that about not arguing well? Quit while you're behind.

And those causes, in your mind, are tied to banks being forced to make loans? Because if so, you're wrong. And I've also "posted at length about the causes of the crash", actually I was foreseeing it back in the fall of 2006, before it became a political issue. You, I'm guessing, notsomuch.

There you go again. I researched the very first piece of legislation that aided the crash...all the way back to the mid-70s. Do some reading of what I've actually said sometime instead of applying the PA Ridiculous And Stupid Stereotype Filter. It's why the left side of the aisle here is such a joke.

Dope, you're not even worth wasting the time to put any effort into arguing with. All you ever do is ad hominem.

ROTFL. Says the guy who started it all in this thread. You replied to me and did so in an insulting manner. That means no whining from you if I decide to reply in kind.

Sorry, but you're not allowed to ride in, insult someone, and then not get anything in return. Life don't work that way. You actually lived in my penalty box for years...I only took you out because you seemingly were posting reasonably polite things during the election. Now that it's over with, you seem to feel like you can run around the Fool and blast whomever you want with whatever invective you can think up.

Life's too short to bother with that. I swear, sooooo many left wingers think they're entitled to insult anyone they choose.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: JimP102 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851218 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 3:36 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I wonder if Dope even realizes that Obama is going to add more jobs his first term than Bush did. Probably not as I am pretty sure this fact is ignored in the echo chamber.
----------------------
Doesn't matter. We are still screwed. Obama said he would fix it.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851219 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 3:48 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Doesn't matter. We are still screwed. Obama said he would fix it.

I can't see where you got that quoted comment from, but whoever wrote it needs some help: when Obama started, there was a hell of a lot of room to add jobs. And oh, yeah: by now his stimulus package was supposed to have unemployment down to a little north of 5%. How's that working out?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851226 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 10:13 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
You actually lived in my penalty box for years...I only took you out because you seemingly were posting reasonably polite things during the election.

You should stop acting like being put in your "penalty box" is some kind of punishment and being taken out for "good behavior" is some kind of reward.

Like most things, you've got this backwards.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851253 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 12:33 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Yep. Shortsighted economic policies like codifying bailouts, forcing banks to make loans, lowering of credit standards, that sort of thing?

If there was any validity to this idea, I'm sure it would easy to find a bank CEO or lobbyist, just a single one, who complained about "being forced to make loans by Washington" prior to the meltdown?
Why has the right wing noise machine not managed to produce a single example of this occurring?

Because it's BS.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851254 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 12:36 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
If there was any validity to this idea, I'm sure it would easy to find a bank CEO or lobbyist, just a single one, who complained about "being forced to make loans by Washington" prior to the meltdown?
Why has the right wing noise machine not managed to produce a single example of this occurring?


LO freaking L @ libs.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851260 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 12:55 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0

LO freaking L @ libs.


So why do you think no such example can be produced?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851265 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 1:26 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I'm continually struck at the rank dishonesty of the left wing here. I never said it was the sole cause. I think that it's bad policy.

But never having to defend a position is what PA liberalism is all about.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851271 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 1:43 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
I'm continually struck at the rank dishonesty of the left wing here. I never said it was the sole cause. I think that it's bad policy.


I don't think in the last decade prior to the meltdown any bankers made any problematic loans they didn't want to because they felt pressured by Washington.
If this had occurred, you can be absolutely certain that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE would have complained about it.
Instead, the bankers were complaining that they were being held back by such things as "legislation against predatory lending practices", "capital requirements", etc.
The whole "Washington caused this" (or substantially contributed to it) line of argument is put forward by the right for one reason only - to avoid having to learn anything from the disaster.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851272 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 1:51 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I don't think in the last decade prior to the meltdown any bankers made any problematic loans they didn't want to because they felt pressured by Washington.

That's not correct.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-05-05/business/98050...
Citicorp and Travelers Group, trying to smooth the way toward approval of their planned giant merger, pledged Monday to make loans and investments totaling $115 billion over 10 years in low- and moderate-income communities across the nation.

But spokesmen for two Chicago activist groups criticized the commitment as being far too little for an organization that will have combined assets of nearly $700 billion if their $70 billion merger is completed to create a financial-services behemoth.

"You're talking about less than $12 billion a year, which is a drop in the bucket compared to their size," said Mike Shea, executive director of the housing division of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.


And now for some more dishonesty:
The whole "Washington caused this" (or substantially contributed to it) line of argument is put forward by the right for one reason only - to avoid having to learn anything from the disaster.

One can trace the bad legislation and bad decisionmaking all the way back to the low 1970's. Crappy laws, poor oversight and stupid regulation set the stage. I don't know why liberals can't honestly look at the big picture for once in your lives.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851273 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 1:53 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
By the way. More data for you:

http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/ls...
The U.S. Treasury Department released a report on Wednesday detailing lending to low- and moderate-income borrowers and low- and moderate-income communities covered by the Community Reinvestment Act. The study found that such lending rose significantly, totaling more than $600 billion between 1993 and 1998.

The First Lady likes to say it takes a village to raise a child, at Treasury we say it takes capital to build a village," said Treasury Secretary Lawrence H. Summers. "This study is further evidence that a strong Community Reinvestment Act is critical to ensuring that all neighborhoods are part of our national economic prosperity."

The study focused on lending trends in 305 U.S. cities between 1993 and 1998. Highlights include:

$467 billion in mortgage credit flowed from CRA-covered lenders to CRA-eligible borrowers.
The amount of home mortgage lending to low- and moderate-income borrowers, low- and moderate-income communities rose 80% during that time. In 1998 alone, these institutions made $135 billion in mortgage loans to these borrowers.
CRA-covered lenders and their affiliates increased mortgage lending to low- and moderate-income borrowers and communities at more than twice the rate of increase for other borrowers. The number of mortgage loans made by CRA-covered institutions and their affiliates to these borrowers and areas increased by 39 percent between 1993 and 1998, while such institutions' loans to other borrowers increased by only 17 percent.
Subprime lending drove growth in lending to low- and moderate-income borrowers and areas for institutions not covered by CRA.
CRA covered institutions increased their market share in prime mortgage lending to low- and moderate-income borrowers and areas. Lenders covered by the CRA primarily specialize in prime lending to borrowers without impaired credit. In this market, covered lenders and their affiliates increased their market share of lending. In 1993, such lenders accounted for 66 percent of prime mortgage loans to these borrowers and areas; by 1998, their market share had increased to 71 percent.
In 84 percent of the metropolitan areas studied, CRA-covered lenders and their affiliates increased the share of their mortgage lending going to low- and moderate-income borrowers and areas, by as much as 12 percentage points.


Again, not the sole cause, but no rational observer can say that it had nothing to do with the big picture.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851276 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:03 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 10
Citicorp and Travelers Group, trying to smooth the way toward approval of their planned giant merger, pledged Monday to make loans and investments totaling $115 billion over 10 years in low- and moderate-income communities across the nation.


And why do you think Citicorp didn't WANT to make those loans when they were made over the next 10 years? Did Citigroup ever complain about this? Or lobby against the CRA?
The vast majority of defaulting subprime loans were made by companies like Countrywide which were NOT subject to the CRA and had no obligations to lend to subprime borrowers. These loans were made purely for the (short-term) profits.
Also, remember that making loans to low- and moderate income households itself is not a problem.
Buffet's company Clayton Homes had a 45% subprime loan book in 2008, with insignificant credit losses during the crisis.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/10/news/newsmakers/buffett_clay...

The problems occur when you have double-digit growth targets for your lending business because you want to make Wall Street happy. THAT'S what did Citigroup in.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851279 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:07 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
More Fail. You dishonestly claimed that I said it was the sole cause. I said nothing of the kind, which makes you 100% wrong.

For cripes sake, you listed THREE "bad policies". To quote from YOUR OWN BLEEPING POST IN THIS THREAD, you said:

shortsighted economic policies like codifying bailouts, forcing banks to make loans, lowering of credit standards, that sort of thing?

First off, nobody was "forcing banks to make loans", unless you are (as noted) trying to twist the "CRA was a problem" meme, which is total bullspit. As for "lowering of credit standards", again, this was done BY PRIVATE LENDERS and was not a policy foisted on them by the government. Yes, eventually Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac lowered some requirements on some of their loans, but that was AFTER it was being done by the private sector as a result of that sectors increased securitization of loans, which was a "free market" issue.

As for "codifying bailouts", that didn't happen until AFTER the spit hit the fan, and was done by the GOP (you remember that W was President then and it was his advisors that pushed that, right)? FWIW, many on the left as well as the right opposed at least some of the measures in TARP.

So, you listed three items specifically, NONE OF WHICH WOULD BE ANYWHERE NEAR THE TOP OF THE CAUSES OF THE FINANCIAL CRASH, although they make for great partisan talking points that ofen get spewed by RW talk radio and its followes. And you expect anyone to take you seriously? And you accuse ME of a "fail"?

That's funny.

ROTFL. Says the guy who started it all in this thread. You replied to me and did so in an insulting manner. That means no whining from you if I decide to reply in kind.

YGTBSM. You see, Dope, this thing called the internet allows one to read the actual things you've posted. Your first post which started this thread was insulting, and it just continued from there. again, anyone who cares can read your actual words.

But keep backpedaling and trying to redefine reality. It works great on Conservative Fools. Outside of that, notsomuch. But it does make for good comedy.

-synchronicity

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851280 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:10 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
When you look at this study from New York State as an example, over 60% of all foreclosure filings concern debtors with over 60k annual income. This idea that the meltdown was largely caused because poor people were given loans is just wrong.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851281 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:11 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 38
And why do you think Citicorp didn't WANT to make those loans when they were made over the next 10 years? Did Citigroup ever complain about this? Or lobby against the CRA?
The vast majority of defaulting subprime loans were made by companies like Countrywide which were NOT subject to the CRA and had no obligations to lend to subprime borrowers. These loans were made purely for the (short-term) profits.
Also, remember that making loans to low- and moderate income households itself is not a problem.
Buffet's company Clayton Homes had a 45% subprime loan book in 2008, with insignificant credit losses during the crisis.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/10/news/newsmakers/buffett_clay......

The problems occur when you have double-digit growth targets for your lending business because you want to make Wall Street happy. THAT'S what did Citigroup in.


Don't confuse him with those facts. There were loans made under CRA between 1993 and 1998, so that OBVIOUSLY was the cause of the 2008 meltdown. It's all "part of the picture", ya see.

Don't worry, he'll just say "fail" and make some comment about "libs" and then go back to the echo chamber boards and crow about how he spanked people. Personally, I hope he and the echo chamber types can force the GOP further to the right, because it's nice to be able to thank the Tea Party for the Democratic majority in the Senate now and one can only hope for more.

-synchronicity

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851282 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:12 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
And why do you think Citicorp didn't WANT to make those loans when they were made over the next 10 years? Did Citigroup ever complain about this? Or lobby against the CRA?

Citigroup was pressured into making the loans as a condition of their merger with Travelers'.

Why wouldn't they want to make the loans? Obviously raaaacism. Oh, wait. That wasn't it.

The vast majority of defaulting subprime loans were made by companies like Countrywide which were NOT subject to the CRA and had no obligations to lend to subprime borrowers. These loans were made purely for the (short-term) profits.

Ahhh, yes. Countrywide. Say, who was Countrywide connected to?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Mae
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122230672551773977.html
Another Countrywide client was recently ousted Fannie Mae Chief Executive Daniel Mudd, though it isn't clear whether he received special treatment on two $3 million mortgage refinancings he made when he was the company's chief operating officer.

In an interview, Ms. Gorelick said she had no knowledge of receiving special treatment. A financial adviser to Mr. Mudd said he received interest rates in line with the prevailing market.

The Fannie loans -- including a series of already reported preferential loans to former Fannie chief executives James Johnson and Franklin Raines -- underscore the close connections between Countrywide and Fannie Mae and raise potential conflict-of-interest issues.


Countrywide and other shady lenders were tied to the hip to Fannie and Freddie, who were pushing the envelope and buying off their supposed regulators in Congress.

Don't stand there and tell me that Washington had zero to do with the subprime crisis. It's a flat out lie.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851283 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:12 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
The problems occur when you have double-digit growth targets for your lending business because you want to make Wall Street happy. THAT'S what did Citigroup in.

AD - You can explain this stuff a million times (if you haven't already) and you'll never convince them that CRA and poor people weren't the cause of the 2008 meltdown. It's dearly held dogma. - Felix

Print the post Back To Top
Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851284 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:14 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
When you look at this study from New York State as an example, over 60% of all foreclosure filings concern debtors with over 60k annual income. This idea that the meltdown was largely caused because poor people were given loans is just wrong.

The more spectacularly wrong dogma is, the more impassioned its defense by believers.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851285 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:16 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
When you look at this study from New York State as an example, over 60% of all foreclosure filings concern debtors with over 60k annual income. This idea that the meltdown was largely caused because poor people were given loans is just wrong.

And again, who said that?

No one.

Why the strawmen? Why the lying? Subprime has to do with credit worthiness. Somebody could be making $60k and still have lousy credit.

Enough already. The ENTIRE SYSTEM is to blame. Government didn't do it all by itself and neither did Wall Street.

I would describe it like this:
*Government piled up a bunch of wood and lit a slowly spreading fire.
*Wall Street saw the fire and poured gasoline all over it.

Without each of their contributions, there's a mess but no economy-burning fire. Why can't PA libs be honest and admit that?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851286 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:16 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Don't stand there and tell me that Washington had zero to do with the subprime crisis. It's a flat out lie.

Washington had everything to do with the subprime crisis. Just not in the way that you think.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851287 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:20 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Unbelievable. So now you didn't say what you said.

For cripes sake, you listed THREE "bad policies". To quote from YOUR OWN BLEEPING POST IN THIS THREAD, you said

...and yet you picked one of them and claimed I said "sole". What, is English your second language?

The rest of your post isn't worth dignifying. You rolled into this thread about a graph and took some shots, and now you're whining about it. Just let it go already.

PA is the way it is because of hyperventilating, thin skinned liberals who can dish it out but can't take it. As for the OP, it merely states some simple facts about Obama's recovery...I can see why you'd find facts such as those insulting.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851289 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:31 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
Unbelievable. So now you didn't say what you said.

For cripes sake, you listed THREE "bad policies". To quote from YOUR OWN BLEEPING POST IN THIS THREAD, you said

...and yet you picked one of them and claimed I said "sole". What, is English your second language?


Apparently either you can't read, or you like to lie, OR you are once again twisting facts to suit your purposes. Or a combination of all three, as you usually do.

You see, what I ACTUALLY SAID was:

Are you guys STILL spouting that "CRA caused the big crash" nonsense? Really?

It's not the SOLE cause, nor did I say it was, but it's the one that gets invoked very often as a huge contributor by RW echo chamber peeps like yourself when in reality it had ALMOST NOTHING to do with the crash.

I never used the word "sole", but I'm sorry if your limited understanding caused to you to leap to that conclusion.

Meanwhile, you can continue to be insulting and keep up with the bon mots such as "no one hates like a liberal", and I'm sure that will advance your reputation even more than it already has.

-synchronicity

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851291 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:35 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1

No one.

Why the strawmen? Why the lying? Subprime has to do with credit worthiness. Somebody could be making $60k and still have lousy credit.


Credit worthiness doesn't matter for the CRA. The CRA is concerned with making sure that sufficient loans are made in poor and moderate income neighborhoods - the credit score of the borrower is not a criterion.
The CRA is not about targetting people with poor credit scores.
I suppose that may be common misunderstanding. The CRA encourages you to make loans to people in Queens. It doesn't encourage you to lend money to poor people in Manhattan (if any).
The Federal Reserve has the numbers:

The Federal Reserve Board has found no connection between CRA and the subprime mortgage problems. In fact, the Board's analysis (102 KB PDF) found that nearly 60 percent of higher-priced loans went to middle- or higher-income borrowers or neighborhoods, which are not the focus of CRA activity. Additionally, about 20 percent of the higher-priced loans that were extended in low- or moderate-income areas, or to low- or moderate-income borrowers, were loans originated by lenders not covered by the CRA. Our analysis found that only six percent of all higher-priced loans were made by CRA-covered lenders to borrowers and neighborhoods targeted by the CRA. Further, our review of loan performance found that rates of serious mortgage delinquency are high in all neighborhood groups, not just in lower-income areas.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/banking_12625.htm

Without each of their contributions, there's a mess but no economy-burning fire. Why can't PA libs be honest and admit that?


Because that's precisely wrong.
An active government contribution (if any) was not required to achieve an economy-melting bubble and will not be required to produce the next such disaster, either.
Big speculative bubbles are a typical, cyclical phenomenon in market economies with a competitive financial sector. If the object of speculation is real estate, the outcome is typically enormous damage to the economy.
It is absolutely vital that this is understood by the political class. Failure to do so means that there is no way to prevent the next meltdown.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851294 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:44 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Apparently either you can't read, or you like to lie, OR you are once again twisting facts to suit your purposes. Or a combination of all three, as you usually do.

Right back at you, sweetheart.

It's not the SOLE cause, nor did I say it was, but it's the one that gets invoked very often as a huge contributor by RW echo chamber peeps like yourself when in reality it had ALMOST NOTHING to do with the crash.

I went back and looked. You didn't say, "Sole". The way you zeroed in on one thing fed my interpretation of your words.

So I got that wrong and I apologize.

Meanwhile, you can continue to be insulting and keep up with the bon mots such as "no one hates like a liberal", and I'm sure that will advance your reputation even more than it already has.

The fact that you didn't say sole doesn't excuse the rest of your conduct. You still zeroed in on one thing and went off on an insulting rant. That's on you and you alone.

By the way, here's a secret. I couldn't care less what you or any other PA liberal thinks. I'm here to exchange ideas. I treat every interaction with every left winger here as a new thread. Some folks over time get stuck in the box because they don't offer up anything new to learn. That's the main reason why they go in.

If there's nothing to learn, there's no point. If you're letting what other people post raise your blood pressure, then you should find some other way to spend time 'cause it's not worth it.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851295 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:46 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
By the way, here's a secret. I couldn't care less what you or any other PA liberal thinks. I'm here to exchange ideas.

And crack jokes, apparently.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851296 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:48 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
Ya know what's even funnier about the chart Dope references in his first post? It's use of the "88,000 jobs per month" needed to absorb new workers, because ya see, during the 8 years of the Bush administration, the total number of new jobs created was 1,095,000, or 11,406 per month!!!

What's also funny is that Dope is using the chart as an indictment of Obama, when the chart starts in January 2008 and includes the over 3.6 million jobs lost before Obama took office. BTW, even if we ignore that last year in calculating the numbers for the Bush administration, that means the first 7 years of that administration there were a whopping 66K jobs created per month. Woo-hoo.

So not only does Obama need to make up for the dramatic losses in jobs in 2008 and 2009, but he also needs to make up for the poor performance of his predecessor.

I fully expect Dope to go on about "how long are you going to blame Bush", while he continues to castigate Obama for performing better than his predecessor, because it's not good enough compared to the Conservative-World ideal of what WOULD happen if only the GOP was in charge.

-synchronicity

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851297 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:48 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Taking your post in reverse order:

An active government contribution (if any) was not required to achieve an economy-melting bubble and will not be required to produce the next such disaster, either.
Big speculative bubbles are a typical, cyclical phenomenon in market economies with a competitive financial sector. If the object of speculation is real estate, the outcome is typically enormous damage to the economy.
It is absolutely vital that this is understood by the political class. Failure to do so means that there is no way to prevent the next meltdown.


Except for that facts that:

1. Legislation in the 1970s codified that 3-4 private firms would be the only means to score credit ratings on bonds
2. Legislation in the 1990's codified bailouts into law and set up a very weak oversight system for Fannie and Freddie
3. Legislation in 1998 eliminated the barriers between the bank's money and its investors' money, meaning that Big Banks could now gamble with more than house money. This was done specifically to increase financial activity.

...and several others. The government played a role in this just as much as the private sector did.

AS for the CRA, you may search my posts and find that I've not said much about it. I focus much more on the underlying incentive structure to try and understand what went wrong.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851298 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 2:50 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
What's even funnier is that Bush isn't President and Obama promised to fix it...yet hasn't.

Give it up. The stimulus was supposed to have unemployment at 5-6% right now. How's that working out?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851409 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/6/2013 9:41 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
New Study Finds CRA 'Clearly' Did Lead To Risky Lending


Read More At IBD: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-perspective/122012-...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: TMFSpeck Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851544 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/7/2013 1:24 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
New Study Finds CRA 'Clearly' Did Lead To Risky Lending

That's different than being the cause of the financial meltdown.

Speck

Print the post Back To Top
Author: SpeedBump13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1851554 of 1977205
Subject: Re: Obama's jobs gap, visualized. Date: 1/7/2013 2:11 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Right. Fear of Obama caused those 12 million jobs to start disappearing long before he took office and years before he submitted a budget proposal. Is that what makes it Obama's jobs gap?

To their credit, your source doesn't childishly blame Obama.

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (38) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement