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Author: NewEchota Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1976763  
Subject: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 9:47 AM
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At least that's the latest conservative meme floating around these days. According to the enlightened folks over at CampFire, "the government wants to take over your 401K and run it like social security. They would take control over your savings with the promise that you would receive a paltry monthly pension upon retirement."

It's a lie, of course. And a whopper.

First, the Secure Choice Pension (SCP) has absolutely nothing to do with your current 401k or IRA.

In fact, it is a basic plan for the privatesector workforce that currently does not have access to a pension plan. It is not a replacement for existing pension plans in the public or private sector.

FactCheck felt it necessary to address this nonsense this past December. They first debunked it in 2008, noting at the time that the allegations were “a mishmash of unsupported conjecture, half-truths, logical fallacies and outright falsehoods.”

You'll find the current FactCheck debunking here:

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/12/no-government-401k-takeover...

Interestingly, the idea of an automatic IRA account was "originally developed in 2006 by David C. John, senior research fellow in retirement security and financial institutions at the conservative Heritage Foundation."

That sounds familiar. <cough> Obamacare </cough>

Conservatives are too funny. Seriously, just read what they've written on their "Just cuz you ain't paranoid...." thread on the topic:

It's "back to the USSR"

And DH wonders why I'm spending down my IRA.

THere's a trillion dollars in private savings in 401K/IRAs.....and the government would love to have it NOW.....all of it.....

Isn't it nauseating and infuriating at the same time (the thought) to be "allowed" to keep saved money and/or turn it over to the government.

Now they want our retirement savings.

Time for a civil war!

I reckon the good news is we won't have to worry about RMDs if the government takes our IRAs/401Ks.

Oh believe me, if they try and confiscate what I've worked a lifetime to earn, they will see a bloody civil war. It's legal to shoot thieves who try and take what doesn't belong to them.

So do the PA kooks support these GRA's? I'm guessing if 0bama is for them, they will, like the good brown shirt jackboots that they are, go along with it too. No lib thus far has weighed in on this thread. I'm guessing a few libs with heafty balances in their 401k's might not come out of the lib closet publicly to oppose them, but in private would probably write their congressman. When their nutty ideas start to effect THEM, they sing a different toon, as in loony.

Unless you keep all cash in your home, your nest egg is on deposit with some regulated entity who will simply be instructed to transfer your IRA/401k balance to the US Treasury. All done electronically.



That's enough... it's amazing to see how gullible and incurious people can be. Just a few minutes of Googling proves the whole idea of confiscating your retirement accounts is a big fat lie.

For those curious about SCP:

http://www.retirementsecurityforall.org/documents/whitepaper...
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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858345 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 10:50 AM
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That's enough... it's amazing to see how gullible and incurious people can be. Just a few minutes of Googling proves the whole idea of confiscating your retirement accounts is a big fat lie.

_________

Actually some simple googling shows some liberal economists and Think Tankers have proposed the idea, but not a single person in elected office has signed on to the idea, because as you rightly state, it's idiotic and will probably never happen.

But if Liberals can claim the Individual Mandate is a Conservative idea, even though no elected REpublicans backed it, just a position paper from a Conserative Think Tank, then well, it's the same.

Similarly, the details of the supposed plan to confiscate our 401(k)s originate, not in secret covens, but in the papers a number of academics have published over the years, seeking ways to better or reform our nation’s individual retirement savings efforts. The authors of these efforts include J. Mark Iwry, who is now a senior adviser to Secretary of the Treasury Tim Geithner and and a deputy assistant secretary for retirement and health policy. (The plot thickens! Just kidding!), He’s argued for such things as Automatic IRA’s, which would cover workers who are not offered access to a 401(k), and for the inclusion of annuities as a choice in 401(k) plans.


http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml

Factcheck.org lost all credibility when it's "Lie of the year" turned out to be true.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858346 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 10:53 AM
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Actually some simple googling shows some liberal economists and Think Tankers have proposed the idea, but not a single person in elected office has signed on to the idea, because as you rightly state, it's idiotic and will probably never happen.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oh you mean like the ideas that are pouring out of the toxic legislation known as ObamaCare?

WHile I do not think they will claim it, they will try to seize control of it to the detriment of many of the folks who hold it. People can not be trusted with their own wealth, every lib knows that, and every one of them espouses that, though they do lie admirably regarding that.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858347 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 10:59 AM
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Good point...sometimes the most ridiculous sounding pieces of legislation eventually become law. Spew a bad idea long enough with "smart" people backing it and eventually it could become law.

ObamaKare being an example. Even Obama at one point said the Individual Mandate was a bad idea. (Dem Primary 2008) He didn't have a problem

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858349 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 11:18 AM
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Those "fact check" organizations are designed to provide high cover for left wing politicians and cut down Republicans. If a Republican says something, much Earth is moved to dig down into the nth nuance to find a lie. If a democrat says something, much Earth is moved to find the tiniest piece that is true.

A couple of cases in point:
http://minx.cc/?post=328288
The Pinocchio Test

We cannot fault the RNC’s math, as the numbers add up. But at this point this figure doesn’t mean very much. It may simply a function of a coincidence of timing — a brief blip that could have little to do with “Obama’s job market.”

If trends hold up over the next few months, then the RNC might have a better case. But at this point we will give this statistic our rarely used label:

TRUE BUT FALSE


Only a low information Obama voter would go for the above, and they're the target.

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Author: icono5 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858360 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 11:47 AM
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Hi, lowstudent! In the mid-70s, Wayne Booth wrote a now-classic text. I know, he was an academic and in the humanities to boot, and thus cause for great suspicion in certain corners. The latter is wickedly ironic, considering . . . . The book was titled _Modern Dogma and the Rhetoric of Assent_. In it, Booth criticized the all-too-frequent cultural tendency toward "motivism": that is, judging the arguments of discursive opponents primarily on foundations they have never established or made explicit. Booth thought, wisely I believe, that such a rhetorical tactic made the very prospect of compromise or policy settlement untenable. (And no--Booth wasn't only pointing the finger at cultural conservatives, not by any stretch.)

If you truly believe that every word from a liberal carries some nasty hidden agenda--and your posts consistently reveal that deep suspicion--then what explains your presence in mixed company? You can't hope to persuade any liberals, can you, by insulting them categorically and impugning or slandering every good-faith attempt to negotiate?

I'm genuinely curious how you would describe your actual motives for such mingling. I'm trying not to be a motivist by simply assuming! ;)

Steve

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858368 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 12:06 PM
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WHile I do not think they will claim it, they will try to seize control of it to the detriment of many of the folks who hold it. People can not be trusted with their own wealth, every lib knows that, and every one of them espouses that, though they do lie admirably regarding that.

That is what they were proposing .... mandatory participation, all going to Government bonds at 3% ... 401k tax break eliminated and replace with a $600.00 credit ??

Dem Rep. Jim McDermott wants to protect us from ourselves. He did submit it to congress and it was revised Feb 2012, but nobody has signed on

Bears

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Author: NewEchota Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858372 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 12:27 PM
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Factcheck.org lost all credibility when it's "Lie of the year" turned out to be true.

Um, only in detached-from-reality world.

It's still "Lie of the Year" to everyone else, as reaffirmed by Politfact: "That wording, plus a quote on the screen that said Chrysler "plans to return Jeep output to China," clearly suggested that Jeep was shifting its U.S. production to China."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/blog/2013/jan/18/lie...


And Fact Check reaffirms its four Pinocchio rating: "With all due respect to Stevens, the claim that Romney turned out to be right is simply not accurate. We fail to see how the argument used to defend Romney against charges of outsourcing — which this column often argued was mostly bogus — can be turned on its head in this particular situation.

Meanwhile, the ad has other serious problems — such as mischaracterizing the PolitiFact column, ignoring the context of the Detroit News endorsement and miscasting Obama’s role in the sale to Fiat. We reaffirm our earlier ruling of Four Pinocchios.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/reaffi...

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858373 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 12:32 PM
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It's still "Lie of the Year" to everyone else, as reaffirmed by Politfact:

_________

Shocking that the "truth keepers" would protect their "lie of the year" by continuing to say it's a lie.

I think the lie of the year is that Fact Checkers can be trusted to tell the truth.

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Author: NewEchota Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858377 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 12:53 PM
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That is what they were proposing .... mandatory participation...

Wrong again. Participation in the Secure Choice Pension would be voluntary.

http://www.pensionrights.org/what-we-do/events/re-imagining-...

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858387 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 2:12 PM
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But if Liberals can claim the Individual Mandate is a Conservative idea, even though no elected REpublicans backed it,...

Didn't back it 'when'? When Obama proposed it? Sure. Anything Obama proposed was immediately opposed by Republicans. However, Mitt Romney was (and is) a Republican, and he not only backed it but implemented it when he was governor of Massachusetts (an elected office.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858390 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 2:21 PM
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Didn't back it 'when'? When Obama proposed it? Sure. Anything Obama proposed was immediately opposed by Republicans. However, Mitt Romney was (and is) a Republican, and he not only backed it but implemented it when he was governor of Massachusetts (an elected office.


He meant from a federal level. States can do what they like.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858391 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 2:32 PM
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lowstudent says

WHile I do not think they will claim it, they will try to seize control of it to the detriment of many of the folks who hold it. People can not be trusted with their own wealth, every lib knows that, and every one of them espouses that, though they do lie admirably regarding that.

Fooled you!

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858398 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 3:07 PM
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He meant from a federal level. States can do what they like.

That was what Romney said when asked about "Romneycare" vs "Obamacare". That seemed a pretty weak argument, then and now.

But the Feds can do what they like too. And the states often don't like it (see, for example, abolition of slavery, integration of schools, invalidation of Jim Crow). The Civil War pretty much decided that "state's rights" are extremely limited.

Perhaps someone here remembers, but I do seem to recall within the past 20 years that a Republican candidate DID back Romney/Obamacare while campaigning for POTUS. I'm thinking it was in the 90s with the Clintons making health care an issue that cycle. One of the GOP candidates proposed the Heritage Foundation plan, or a variant of it. Didn't go anywhere, obviously. But if my memory is correct, that further invalidates the OP's assertion.

This is all I can find quickly: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2010/03/28/health...

The obligation in the new health care law is a Republican idea that has been around at least two decades. It was once trumpeted as an alternative to Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton’s failed health care overhaul in the 1990s.

<snip>

In the early 1970s, President Nixon favored a mandate that employers provide insurance. In the 1990s, the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, embraced an individual requirement.


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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858413 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 5:27 PM
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Now see you shot first and aimed second. Typical lib mischaracterization and igorance of the facts.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858415 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 5:39 PM
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http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/112812-634984-401k-...

President Obama's National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, for instance, proposed lowering the cap on the amount workers could place in their 401(k)s without incurring taxes.

And nearly three years ago, Newt Gingrich and Peter Ferrara wrote on these pages about the Treasury and Labor departments "asking for public comment on 'the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams.'"

"In plain English," said Gingrich and Ferrara, "the idea is for the government to take your retirement savings in return for a promise to pay you some monthly benefit in your retirement years."




Duh!


http://www.silverdoctors.com/obama-begins-push-to-confiscate...

A recent hearing sponsored by the Treasury and Labor Departments marked the beginning of the Obama Administration’s effort to nationalize the nation’s pension system and to eliminate private retirement accounts including IRA’s and 401k plans, NSC is warning.

The hearing, held in the Labor Department’s main auditorium, was monitored by NSC staff and featured a line up of left-wing activists including one representative of the AFL-CIO who advocated for more government regulation over private retirement accounts and even the establishment of government-sponsored annuities that would take the place of 401k plans.

“This hearing was set up to explore why Americans are not saving as much for their retirement as they could,” explains National Seniors Council National Director Robert Crone, “However, it is clear that this is the first step towards a government takeover. It feels just like the beginning of the debate over health care and we all know how that ended up.”

A representative of the liberal Pension Rights Center, Rebecca Davis, testified that the government needs to get involved because 401k plans and IRAs are unfair to poor people. She demanded the Obama administration set up a “government-sponsored program administered by the PBGC (the governments’ Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation).” She proclaimed that even “private annuities are problematic.”

Such “reforms” would effectively end private retirement accounts in America, Crone warns. “These people want the government to require that ultimately all Americans buy these government annuities instead of saving or investing on their own. The Government could then take these trillions of dollars and redistribute it through this new national retirement system.”

Deputy Treasury Secretary J. Mark Iwry, who presided over the hearing, is a long-time critic of 401k plans because he believes they benefit the rich. He also appears to be one of the Administration’s point man on this issue.

“This whole issue is moving forward very quickly,” warns Crone. “Already there is a bill requiring all businesses to automatically enroll their employees in IRA plans in which part of every employee’s paycheck would be automatically deducted and deposited into this account. If this passes, the government will be just one step away from being able to confiscate all these retirement accounts.”


Duh!


http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/now-obama-wants-your-401k/#4wBMy7...

Government takeover?

An Investment Company Institute study published this month found that U.S. retirement assets totaled $18.5 trillion at the end of the second quarter 2012, of which 3.5 trillion was in IRAs and $5.1 trillion was in 401(k) plans.

Since 2010, the U.S. Treasury Department and the Department of Labor have been holding combined hearings on various plans designed to introduce government-mandated retirement plans and investment options, including government annuities invested primarily in U.S. Treasury debt, into the private retirement savings market.

“This hearing was set up to explore why Americans are not saving as much for their retirement as they could,” explained National Seniors Council National Director Robert Crone, describing a recent Treasury-Labor hearing held in the Labor Department’s main auditorium.

“However it is clear that his is just the first step toward a government takeover. It feels like the beginning of the debate over health care and we all know how that ended up.”



Duh!

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Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858419 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 6:14 PM
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Can't fix stupid

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Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858420 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 6:15 PM
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no elected REpublicans backed it

Robert Dole was appointed?

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Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858421 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 6:18 PM
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Those "fact check" organizations are designed to provide high cover for left wing politicians and cut down Republicans.

LOL. In other words, facts have a liberal bias. So true.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858422 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 6:30 PM
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Liberals love to come up with a new term every so often. Now it's "meme." I remember that conservative "meme" going around that liberals would eventually attempt to promote and legitimize the deviant homosexual lifestyle and liberals like yourself scoffed and claimed it was a lie.

And then there is now.

The truth is that YOU lied and can't be trusted ever. Tyrants never can be trusted and tryants never think they are tyrants. Two truths about liberalism - absolute, not relative truth.

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858427 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 7:15 PM
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I think it'll be glorious when this happens.

It will happen.

And who will see the most confiscated or controlled?

Liberal professionals.

It's high time these greedy Liberals stop sitting on that 401k money. Tax them on it. Then disperse the funds.

Force them to invest in Exxon or Citi.

Cause when the government does finally control 401k's, guess who controls government? Wall Street.

It's time Microsoft and Exxon and Goldman have even more control over these people.

I support it 100%.

JediG... no 401k since probably 1998.

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858432 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 8:07 PM
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Liberals love to come up with a new term every so often. Now it's "meme." I remember that conservative "meme" going around that liberals would eventually attempt to promote and legitimize the deviant homosexual lifestyle and liberals like yourself scoffed and claimed it was a lie.

And then there is now.

The truth is that YOU lied and can't be trusted ever. Tyrants never can be trusted and tryants never think they are tyrants. Two truths about liberalism - absolute, not relative truth.


Congratulations.

You've just described yourself.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858434 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 8:39 PM
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" I think it'll be glorious when this happens. It will happen."

No, it won't.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858435 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 8:41 PM
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Liberals love to come up with a new term every so often. Now it's "meme."

---

You hadn't heard that word before? See, you can learn something every day. (It isn't a new word.).

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858437 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 9:12 PM
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Just remember.....

In 2008, Argentina was in deep debt and couldn't sell its bonds, so the government mandated that $24 billion in private pensions would be taken over by the government. They "invested" (read "stole") the money thus purloined in Argentinian debt instruments. Over the course of the next five years, the Argentine currency fell by more than 36 percent versus the U.S. dollar…and the Argentine bond yields have risen causing a decline in the value of the bonds. A double whammy.

The effect of all this was to devastate the value of private pensions and to remove the citizens’ chance to keep their capital intact by investing in gold, real estate, stocks or other vehicles. Since 2008, currency controls have been established, making it hard for citizens to get their money out of Argentina. This has happened during an inflation that outside economists estimate at greater than 25 percent per annum, while Argentina’s official inflation numbers were so low that the country recently became the first country ever to be censured by the IMF for under-reporting its inflation rate.

It can happen here... and current discussions in Washington (which go back several years) should give us pause. Going forward, this is a great way to reduce the debt.... on your backs, if it's your retirement investment.

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Author: NewEchota Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858440 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 9:45 PM
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JoshRandall: And nearly three years ago, Newt Gingrich and Peter Ferrara wrote on these pages about the Treasury and Labor departments "asking for public comment on 'the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams.'"

As a very rich man, Newt is unconcerned about outliving his savings. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for most Americans.

In the past Americans overcame the problem of outliving their savings by using private pensions that guaranteed a particular monthly benefit for life. Employers, though, preferred to shift risk to employees and replaced defined benefit pension plans with 401(k) plans, which leave it to the workers to invest that money well and to figure out how to use it to see them through their retirement years.

While annuitization of 401(k) balances is not necessarily appropriate for all 401(k) participants, it is an option worth consideration (regardless of the contrary IBD Editorial opinion).

It's unlikely it'll ever happen because of people who believe that every outside the box idea floated by the government is a sinister socialist plot designed to separate them from their money.

What's especially funny is that through an annuity, many retirees would be less likely to require government assistance, such as food stamps, in their old age. In short, it could drive down the cost of government programs.

Since your other two links are clearly from the far reaches of CrazyTown™ and their allegations have been thoroughly debunked (see the link in the OP), I'll simply repeat: conservatives are funny.

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858443 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/7/2013 11:25 PM
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Keep up the slavish belief in your government.

The same one that can infringe on a variety of your liberties today.

JediG

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858466 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/8/2013 9:47 AM
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"Keep up the slavish belief in your government. The same one that can infringe on a variety of your liberties today."

I'm curious... Did you think that Bush had a secret plan to steal your 401K too?

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858472 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/8/2013 10:31 AM
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Bush, while better than Obama is still Establishment.

Establishment likes power.

So, while the likes of you and Obama will make excuses for tiny, innocent looking steps towards meddling with people's 401k's, I feel Bush probably, on that specific issue would be of opposite mindset.

BUT, Bush is Establishment. So in the end, I wouldn't trust him slavishly either. In a democracy the public shuold have a healthy skepticism about government. Not anarchy, just something more than slavish devotion. Leading up to Iraq war, people like me had slavish devotion, we didn't ask questions, and the result is bad.

Fast forward, which SCOTUS broke the tie to allow Obama more power over our health care? Roberts. Appointed by BUSH. Establishment wants power.

But don't worry, a slight majority of the nation is Loyalist like you. They will coddle, protect, and make excuses for the King of England and the Lobsterbacks.

Which is why it's a pleasure and privilege to see you slowly lose certain rights and privacies and liberties. I think much much more is needed and I hope one day the government will "help" you with 401k. Eventually that'll morph into special interests (Wall Street) "helping" the government to "help" you invest your 401k. Certainly the likes of Goldman and Citi will have pure intentions. Certainly they won't want the government to "help" you invest in a way that fattens their fees.

As far as my 401k...I don't have one. Nor do I invest in American stocks but for trading purposes. Investing in an entity ruled by losers, where the entity is supported by losers, is not a wise long term investment.

So I personally could care less.

It's just entertainment value, and I can't wait to see the eventual meddling with retirement accounts and possibly control or confiscation. And it'll be a pleasure to see you Liberals sitting at the kitchen table, with black eye, crying to your girlfriend about how "he did it for your own good, and that he'll change eventually".

Obama 2012
More more more. Eavesdrop on these people. Detain them without trial. Gitmo. Retirement funds. Screw with everything from their lunches to sodas to retirement accounts. They can't handle liberty, and need to have more and more taken away. Even UN peacekeepers won't save them one day.

JediG

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858475 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/8/2013 10:49 AM
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"So, while the likes of you and Obama will make excuses for tiny, innocent looking steps towards meddling with people's 401k's..."

Interesting. What steps do you believe have been taken in this regard?



"...I feel Bush probably, on that specific issue would be of opposite mindset."

So what is different between now and when Bush was in office, other than party affiliation?

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858485 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/8/2013 11:22 AM
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Bush wasn't planting seeds to meddle with 401k's.

On the contrary he wanted to give people MORE control over their retirement funds.

Like I said....I hope Obama and the Left prevail.

I'd love to have access to the 401k's of greedy professionals in NYC and Caliphornia, so we can build more bridges to nowhere in Alaska and Alabama.

Going forward....

*End tax benefits of 401k's for rich professionals earning over $60k.

*End mortgage deductions totally.

*Raise tax rates on wealthy professionals earning over $80k.

*Allow government, and by proxy, Wall Street to "help" Americans manage their 401k's.

(Let's see if Liberals support all of that)

JediG

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858487 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/8/2013 11:31 AM
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"Bush wasn't planting seeds to meddle with 401k's."

And you think Obama is? Why do you think so?

"On the contrary he wanted to give people MORE control over their retirement funds."

As I recall Bush wanted to eliminate the safety net by privatizing social security. That way, or so the logic went, people could have IRAs and 401ks. He never seemed to notice that those things already existed.

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858491 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/8/2013 11:43 AM
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Partial privatization.

But I agree with Liberals.

Based on election 2012....you people cannot be trusted to manage even a little of your Social Security.

It'll be fun watching retirement ages go up.

JediG

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Author: icono5 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858601 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/8/2013 8:39 PM
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Is it lonely way up there, Josh? Good thing there's an eternal reward for self-righteousness, er, Righteousness. There is a difference, right? Lol.

Fwiw, there are lots of ways to meet _actual_ liberals right here on earth. They go to PTO meetings, shop in the grocery store, attend churches, and engage in various other quotidian activities. They have individual names and distinctive preferences and characteristics.

Oh . . . I see . . . the Master forbids such conduct? Intermingling? The horror! Yes, we liberals might just try foisting "free love" and other such barbarisms, right? Better to be safe and stay perched on top of the mountain.

Yes!! Look . . . another Commandment is on its way. Keep us posted, please!

Steve
-----------------------


"Liberals love to come up with a new term every so often. Now it's "meme." I remember that conservative "meme" going around that liberals would eventually attempt to promote and legitimize the deviant homosexual lifestyle and liberals like yourself scoffed and claimed it was a lie.

And then there is now.

The truth is that YOU lied and can't be trusted ever. Tyrants never can be trusted and tryants never think they are tyrants. Two truths about liberalism - absolute, not relative truth."

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858633 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/9/2013 9:54 AM
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While annuitization of 401(k) balances is not necessarily appropriate for all 401(k) participants, it is an option worth consideration (regardless of the contrary IBD Editorial opinion).

It's unlikely it'll ever happen because of people who believe that every outside the box idea floated by the government is a sinister socialist plot designed to separate them from their money.
____________________

The rules of money and capital haven't changed. A large variety of annuities and other options exist now, and there has been a pretty large interest in doing the conversions. As of now, many 401-K participants do not have access to such products, because their company plans don;t offer them. That is changing.

I maintain that government has no real role in this. I've long been critical of the limited options available for investment to employees in 401K plans. This is why I've also long been an advocate of ROTH IRA investing. I find it unbelievable that so many large company plans offer a limited bag of the usual underperforming mutual funds, which has been an annuity of sorts for the mutual fund owners. Not so great for the participants, who have to pay some fairly steep fees for the Right to buy what they have to. But that's another story.

People should not lose any more control of their money than they already have. Once pensions were largely eliminated, the "choices" for tax-deferred retirement accounts were concocted by the major players that stood to gain the most. I'm a big fan of giving people the Option of being able to buy an annuity, or some other product, within their plans. Nothing more.

If government can give a nudge to the companies and the investment community, so be it. As it is, I think government has restricted and controlled these accounts far too much.

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858867 of 1976763
Subject: Re: Obama's Secret Plan to Steal Your 401k Date: 2/10/2013 9:16 PM
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Perhaps some fun will come around the corner.

If interest rates eventually rise, maybe retired baby boomers will take their money out of riskier stocks.

Millenials according to some surveys are apprehensive about stocks.

Boomers sell.

Young folks don't buy.

BOOM.

Could be a good time for buying though this is far down the road.

Until then, enjoy Obama's gift to Wall Street at the expense of middle class purchasing power. (Though, self-proclaimed 'Im here to defend the middle class' PA'ers won't give a hoot while middle America wonders where their purchasing power went)

JediG

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