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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 62957  
Subject: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 3:11 AM
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The working poor, on average, would see taxes go up between $1,000 and $1,500 dollars. Barely anyone making over $100,000 would see a tax increase, and as a percentage of income, middle and upper middle class people making between $40,000 and $100,000 a year would see taxes go up less.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/19/j...
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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46959 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 4:27 AM
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I wonder what the schools are like in Boehner's district? If people keep voting for this $hit, they must be really bad at 3rd grade arithmetic.

intercst

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Author: PucksFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46960 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 8:31 AM
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His district is so Republican that the Democrats don't even run anyone against him.

PF

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46961 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 9:41 AM
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Yeah...right.....'refundable tax credits'....they get money back they never paid it...or get their SS and medicare 'tax' money refunded...so not only don't they pay for those programs, they get even more money back.

As Baracki himself said 'everyone should have some skin in the game'. If low inocme folks expect to RECEIVE SS when they retire, at least they ought to pay into it!



Right?

Oh...no...not to libs......that would be a 'tax' increase if we end the free give away of other taxpayers money to 'the low income folks'....and reduce their tax burden to negative $1500 a year......and 'refund' that....

Geez...the country is going broke, and you can't change anything in DC , especially the give away programs.


Unemployment payments for life!..no one should have to work!


Free healthcare - just sit back, don't work, goof off, collect food stamps, your weekly 'paycheck allowance', free housing, free Obama phone, free internet courtesy of other phone users, free this, free bus pass, free, free. free. free.....

Yeah, we got all the money we need....Obama can print it all!...Let the good times roll...no one has to pay taxes but them 'rich folks'...




t.

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Author: lindytoes Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46962 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 12:23 PM
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I wonder what the schools are like in Boehner's district? If people keep voting for this $hit, they must be really bad at 3rd grade arithmetic.

intercst


Interstingly enough, my neighbor, John, came over with a car charger which cycles on and off while I am gone for so long. I didn't even think about getting something like this.

Anyhoo, we got into a discussion of my daughter Heather since she works as a math teacher in Panama (and that is where I am going). She complains about how ill equipped the students are for even middle school math. John said they don't teach basic math any more. His 15 year old grandson cannot figure out how to calculate change when buying something. John said McDonald's is the company who came up with the cash registers that automatically figure change because they couldn't find low wage workers who even know how to do that.

John said just try this some time. Give a clerk a wide variety of bills and coins for a purchase and watch how that clerk cannot count it all up properly. I rather think he is mistaken about ALL clerks, but I bet he is right about quite a few.

And one more thing: John is a die hard Republican in a die hard Republican district that voted for moron Paul "Pits of Hell" Broun.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46964 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 12:48 PM
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Boehner's (and maybe Obama's-) plan also decreases the income of most senior citizens, too, those whose income is mostly via Social Security, that is--and many of them are near-poor. I guess the idea is to have seniors compete for those low-wage part-time jobs that are becoming ever more prevalent.

Boehner's Medicare voucher plan will also heavily penalize seniors whose health is worse than average.

Nice :-(

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46969 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 4:05 PM
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alstro:"Boehner's (and maybe Obama's-) plan also decreases the income of most senior citizens, too, those whose income is mostly via Social Security, that is--and many of them are near-poor. I guess the idea is to have seniors compete for those low-wage part-time jobs that are becoming ever more prevalent."

The adjustment is SMALL......like $10/a month after 20 years in the future.

You might just have to give up one of your dogs. After all, alstro's kids shouldn't be taxed to provide the care and feeding of pets for seniors..........

------

alstro:"Boehner's Medicare voucher plan will also heavily penalize seniors whose health is worse than average. "

That was Ryan's plan, and was likely the BEST solution for the Medicare problem that will bankrupt the country in 20-30 years.

Your solution? Tax the middle class working folks even more? Say another 1/3rd more tax?

So you confuse the young Ryan with the older Boehner? Just for some 'lib slam points'? Yepper..seems so.


t.

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Author: impolite Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46970 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 6:01 PM
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Yeah...right.....'refundable tax credits'....they get money back they never paid it...or get their SS and medicare 'tax' money refunded...so not only don't they pay for those programs, they get even more money back.

As Baracki himself said 'everyone should have some skin in the game'. If low inocme folks expect to RECEIVE SS when they retire, at least they ought to pay into it!


I am probably going to regret this, but: what?

I am not being facetious; I really am not following what you are saying here. I assume you are talking about EIC - which actually offsets SS in it's intentions, true - but not Medicare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_tax_credit

Or are there other refundable tax credits you are also discussing?

and reduce their tax burden to negative $1500 a year

Reduce some of their tax burden, 'tis true - but even as a fairly well off middle-income couple, our federal income taxes are only a portion of what we pay in taxes every year. State income taxes to two states, a local tax, personal property taxes are all on the list as well, and are not impacted by refundable credits at the federal level.

impolite

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46971 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 6:22 PM
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The adjustment is SMALL......like $10/a month after 20 years in the future.

From NPR..."Ydstie offers an example of someone earning $1,000 annually from Social Security. If inflation under the current measure was 2 percent last year, he says, that person's Social Security payment next year would be $1,020.
"But, under the new chained CPI, your benefit next year would be $1,017 a month — $3 less. "

More like $10 less/month after 3 years, and that's for a below-average SS benefit--the hit would be higher for most people. Maybe $100 less after 20 years, or more. And even more for couples.

I know that to you, SS is just providing some of the extras in life. But to 1/3 of seniors, it's 90% or more of their income, and to 2/3, it's over 50%.

My mother just had her broken crown glued together rather than get a new one, which costs $850. On a monthly income of $3000 (half SS), she needs to save for a while to pay for it. And her income is more than most seniors...you;re saying it;s OK to cost them a crown equivalent in their 80s. Every year.

You might just have to give up one of your dogs.

We don't own pets. Or have $10 extra in any budget category that we care to donate to keep rich peoples' taxes at a Romneyesque 14%.

alstro:"Boehner's Medicare voucher plan will also heavily penalize seniors whose health is worse than average.
...................
That was Ryan's plan "


I know. I also know Boehner supported it during the campagin. While he's cagey and not admitting to that position now, I don't doubt that's where he wants to go.

and was likely the BEST solution for the Medicare problem that will bankrupt the country in 20-30 years.

Leaving seniors with health problems unable to afford insurance is the best solution--in America, the exceptional? I don't think so!

Your solution? Tax the middle class working folks even more? Say another 1/3rd more tax?

Yeah. Let's go from 1.45% to at least 2% on the employer and employee sides to cover medical advances. Should've done it decades ago and we wouldn't be in this pickle.

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46972 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 6:40 PM
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Boehner's (and maybe Obama's-) plan also decreases the income of most senior citizens, too, those whose income is mostly via Social Security, that is--and many of them are near-poor. I guess the idea is to have seniors compete for those low-wage part-time jobs that are becoming ever more prevalent.

Having our seniors reduced to eating dog food will be well worth it if it means low taxes for the Koch brothers.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46974 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 7:11 PM
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I'm completely out of recs today. That happens to me a lot. But everyone but tele should feel rec'ed one more time than your post shows in this thread.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46976 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 8:05 PM
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impolite:Reduce some of their tax burden, 'tis true - but even as a fairly well off middle-income couple, our federal income taxes are only a portion of what we pay in taxes every year. State income taxes to two states, a local tax, personal property taxes are all on the list as well, and are not impacted by refundable credits at the federal level. "

Let's face it...it's the 'middle class' folks living in high cost areas that aren't paying their fair share.

They get to deduct their high real estate taxes and high state income taxes..to the tune of 20 to 30,000 thousand a year, sometimes even more. That means....they are taking advantage of tax loopholes that most lower income folks can't take. The lower income folks are stuck with the 'standard deduction'. They still got to pay their income taxes and real estate taxes (or pay real estate taxes via rent).

The middle class folks get a 'tax break'. The lower income folks don't.

The high roller middle class gets to deduct charitable giving. Write off 28% plus likely 10% more in states like CA....38% reduction in taxes...wow....

Meanwhile the lower middle class and the poor , if they give something, and manage to squeak over the 'standard deduction limit'...get almost no break.....their tax rate is maybe 15% or 20%....so they only get to write off a fraction of their giving.

It's the high rollers in high tax states like CA, MA, CT, NYC area...that cost the nation a trillion dollars in avoided tax. As those states jack up the rates...well, those taxes are just paid to the states....and the income earners get a nice big write off against fed taxes.....writing maybe 30% of them off....

Until you start putting limits on deductions.....you 'rich' middle class ain't a paying your fair share.

Worse, our tax code gets zero revenue from nearly half the people in the country with income..... we're talking INCOME taxes......

and a good part of that half is TAKING money from the taxpayers in 'entitlement' programs...and welfare and give away programs and subsidies and food stamps and Sec 8 housing and AID for dependent kids and college tuition 'grants' and a thousand other give away programs from free cheese to Obama Phones to everything else. it seems.



t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46978 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 8:21 PM
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alstro:"I know that to you, SS is just providing some of the extras in life. But to 1/3 of seniors, it's 90% or more of their income, and to 2/3, it's over 50%."

Then maybe you can explain why Obama and his fed have been pushing down the value of the dollar, year after year, INTENTIONALLY, by printing trillions of extra dollars?

Maybe you can explain, if money is so important to those seniors as in 'pourchasing power' , why Obama and the lib dems have driven the value of the dollar so low that oil, in dollar terms, has gone from $10 to $100 a barrel (Brent Crude price) in 20 years. Where his policies have driven up the price of food at the store by 50% in just two years.

Does he really want to starve the seniors?

We're talking 50% more food costs and your whining about a $3 drop in SS payments after a couple years, when real food inflation is 15% a year? And the price of oil has 'skyrocketed' and Obama has yet to skyrocket your utility bills. Remember his promise!...

You think he really has your interest at heart? Heck no.

---------

ANd as to seniors....oh wow...you know that there are a lot of seniors racking up $50,000 a year in SS payments as a couple?

HEck, if I had waiting till 66 1/3rd to get my 'full SS', I'd be collecting well over $25,000 a year!.....and if I were married to someone who had earned equally well - we'd be collecting almost 55K a year in benefits. ANd if we waited till 68 or 70, it would be about $70K plus a year...oh, poverty!

So when you whine that half the folks depend on SS for 90% of their income, I laugh at you!.....

yeah.....that's a sad statement, seeing that at least half of all people retiring before 1990 or so had pensions....before the goverment changed the laws and made it tough for companies to keep pension plans and most switched instantly to 401K plans......

More good planning at tax grabs by the fed......that has backfired on them...... and now the pensions are ended.....and the folks only have SS.... thank you BIg government..

-------



ALstro:"My mother just had her broken crown glued together rather than get a new one, which costs $850. On a monthly income of $3000 (half SS), she needs to save for a while to pay for it."

Geez...you'd think by now that she would set aside a few dollars each month in a rainy day account.

Half the folks in FL live on less than $27,000 a year. SO? or maybe she should sell a gold necklace. I dunno.

But you really think that 3 dollars a month is going to make a difference to her? and her $850 crown?


------




alstro:" And her income is more than most seniors...you;re saying it;s OK to cost them a crown equivalent in their 80s. Every year."

Wow...we're talking 3 bucks a month....36 a year..gimme a break...

No rainy day fund for her?

No kids willing to cough up $850 as a christmas present? The one whose got a fat gov't pension for years of service plus a hubby going to get a nice pension from academia?



-------




alstro: We don't own pets. Or have $10 extra in any budget category that we care to donate to keep rich peoples' taxes at a Romneyesque 14%."

In other words, you think you are entitled to take money from other folks pockets for your needs.....? a typical lib.



t.

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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46982 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 9:17 PM
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Obama Phones

JEEZE O PETE. I am sick of this "Obama Phone" nonsense.

The free cell phone thing was started in 2008 under GW Bush.

Free phones was actually a Reagan (you know, Ronald Reagan) project and it was formalized with the telecommunications act of 1996. As cell phones because ubiquitous, it was expanded to include cell phones in 2008--under Bush II.

AND: it's not paid for by the government! It's subsidized by the telecom industry.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/the-obama-phone/

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46984 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/20/2012 9:58 PM
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"
Free phones was actually a Reagan (you know, Ronald Reagan) project and it was formalized with the telecommunications act of 1996. As cell phones because ubiquitous, it was expanded to include cell phones in 2008--under Bush II.

AND: it's not paid for by the government! It's subsidized by the telecom industry."


Silly you


It's paid for ..by folks like you on your monthly cell phone bill. You pay part of the welfare weenie and queenies cellphone bills with a 'federal tax' that is added to your bill. It may be in the form of a 'state tax' but is a federal mandate.

In addition, you pay a higher rate because your cellphone company has to kick in. So you directly and indirectly pay for all the phones for each and every welfare weenie and queenie.....and a lot of them have 3 or 4 in the family...one for the deadbeat dad...one for the deadbeat mom of 2 or 4 or 8 kids from six fathers...with none paying child support....who gets $2500 a month in AID and assistance, plus free housing.....plus $1400 a month in food stamps and free Medicare.....living like she was making $30,000 plus....on your money....for doing nothing but goofing off at home, and 'taking care of the kids'......

who also get free OBamaphones so Obama queenie can keep in touch with the kidlets .......


t.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46995 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/21/2012 10:00 AM
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you know that there are a lot of seniors racking up $50,000 a year in SS payments as a couple?

Not a lot--a few. Maybe we should have a max SS benefit of, hmmm, I dunno, maybe $25k pp and $50k per couple, increasing with inflation? Maybe reduce the max age for collecting or reduce the benefit for delaying? The only people who can afford to delay to age 70 are very lucky/healthy and still working, or have massive savings or a big inheritance (I know examples of all 3). And ratchet back that unearned spousal benefit already (beating a dead horse here, I know-).

Geez...you'd think by now that she would set aside a few dollars each month in a rainy day account.

She used up her 2012 slush for other emergencies. More likely to happen in your 80s. She has a horror of debt--will not put anything on a credit card she can't pay off when the bill comes.

maybe she should sell a gold necklace.

That's actually a good idea--thx, although most of her jewelry is costume.

No kids willing to cough up $850 as a christmas present?

That's most of my Christmas spending on everyone put together (all my husband's getting from me is $100 worth of new kimono and a gel mat for standing in front of the sink as he usually does the dishes. I'm getting my requested $100 iTunes gift card). In our family, Christmas is mainly for kids.

My younger brother, the bachelor, will offer to pay for Mom's crown as she is not in need of elecronics this year (his usual gift to her being the computer he;s replacing or new phones or TV--or a day spa gift card) Whether Mom will accept this charity is something else. And it's not easily affordable by him this year either--business is down and he just put his $40k into his SEP-IRA. And he has no health insurance and is not in good health. He will have to work to age 70...at least he has an understanding boss ;-)

The one whose got a fat gov't pension for years of service plus a hubby going to get a nice pension from academia?

What are you talking about? I've never worked for any level of govt and neither have my brothers. One was a dentist in private practice (who lost his eyesight in his early 50s and is living on a private disability pension) with a mostly non-working wife who;s older than he is, the other is single with his own small business. None of us is getting or will get any kind of pension other than SS. My husband is getting ~$800/month pension from teaching at a public college, starting next month (for which his gross pay was docked 6% every check). We are delaying collecting SS for a while, and have to make up the difference from savings. Hence no retirement gift for hubby yet (new computer, nicer TV).

alstro: We don't own pets. Or have $10 extra in any budget category that we care to donate to keep rich peoples' taxes at a Romneyesque 14%."
.....................
In other words, you think you are entitled to take money from other folks pockets for your needs.....? a typical lib.


A "typical lib" thinks taxes should be fair, not less taxes on wealthy people like "typical lib(ertarans)" prefer.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46996 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/21/2012 11:27 AM
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alstro:"Not a lot--a few. Maybe we should have a max SS benefit of, hmmm, I dunno, maybe $25k pp and $50k per couple, increasing with inflation?"

And why is that? You have two people, maxing out contributions, who then go to retire, after planning on their SS.....why should they have limits that are different from two unmarried people living in the same house or apartment, each collecting full benefits?

You realize they likely are hit with a marriage penalty already?

--------




alstro:" Maybe reduce the max age for collecting or reduce the benefit for delaying? "

The gov't figures that it will pay, on average, the same whether you retire early or late. It costs them no more money if you retire late. or early. simple...

so why the wealth envy? If you had worked 40 years as a high paid employee, would you like some lib saying 'you really don't need your SS now.....suck wind'? or your fed pension? heck, you're getting too much compared to the welfare weenie who doesn't get anything when they retire.

-------



alsro:: The only people who can afford to delay to age 70 are very lucky/healthy and still working, or have massive savings or a big inheritance (I know examples of all 3)."

Says who? And it makes no difference to the gov't. THey figure they'll pay out the same no matter WHEN you collect it.. ....get it early you get less money for more years. take it later and you get more, but for fewer years. Simple.

Why the wealth envy. And you probably know a dozen or more on the RE board who could delay SS to age 70 if they wanted.....and a lot of folks with big fat public sector pension can too....... like city of NY sanitation workers who retire with $60K or $80K/yr pensions plus free healthcare

---------




alstro:" And ratchet back that unearned spousal benefit already (beating a dead horse here, I know-)."

Why? wealth envy?

-------









alstro:A "typical lib" thinks taxes should be fair, not less taxes on wealthy people like "typical lib(ertarans)" prefer. "

Translation: Which means you think you are entitled to most of the earnings of the rich for redistribution. YOu feel you are entitled to reach into their pockets, despite the fact they already pay 90% of all income taxes, to fund whatever your 'needs' are. Isn't that it? The more you 'want' the more you grab while your hand is in their pocket, taking THEIR money for YOUR use. right?



t.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47002 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/21/2012 3:49 PM
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Democrats sold the Alternative Minimum Tax on the theory that "Everyone should pay at least some Federal income taxes."


Since Democrats established that principle, I suppose there's no reason why it shouldn't apply to the working poor too.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47003 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/21/2012 3:52 PM
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<<His 15 year old grandson cannot figure out how to calculate change when buying something. John said McDonald's is the company who came up with the cash registers that automatically figure change because they couldn't find low wage workers who even know how to do that.

>>


I recall a Doonesberry cartune where Dunesberry is making a purchase for $.87.


He gives the clerk $1.12 to make it easy for the clerk to make change...



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47004 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/21/2012 4:13 PM
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all my husband's getting from me is $100 worth of new kimono and a gel mat for standing in front of the sink as he usually does the dishes.

Oh, I forgot...I got all the guys, including--indeed, especially!--DH the Steve Jobs look: black mock turtleneck and black smartwool sox.

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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47005 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/21/2012 5:16 PM
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Democrats sold the Alternative Minimum Tax on the theory that "Everyone should pay at least some Federal income taxes."


Since Democrats established that principle,


The present AMT scheme came about in 1982 under Reagan (republican). The House was Democrat, the Senate Republican.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 47008 of 62957
Subject: Re: oehner’s Plan B raises taxes on poor Date: 12/21/2012 8:16 PM
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I wouldn't mind one of those gel mats. I'll have to start dropping hints pretty quickly.

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