No. of Recommendations: 17
http://www.oregonlive.com/argus/index.ssf/2011/11/energy_tru...

PORTLAND — From Astoria to Ashland, Coos Bay to Enterprise, Energy Trust of Oregon has searched statewide to find Oregon’s Oldest Fridge, so it can be unplugged and recycled. It’s all part of Energy Trust’s Oldest Fridge Contest held this fall to raise awareness about a free service that can help residents unplug and recycle their older refrigerators and save hundreds on their energy bills.

With more than 2,500 fridges received by the nonprofit during the contest, the winner — a 1937 General Electric — was found humming away after seven decades in the basement of a Coquille, Oregon home, near the coast in the southern part of the state.

What Greer didn’t realize is that fridges built before 1993 can waste up to $200 a year in energy costs, compared to today’s more energy-efficient, ENERGY STAR® models, which average only $40 a year to operate.

<snip>


Of course, the common Tea-Bagger with poor math skills would have just kept the old fridge in the basement and gloried in the "freedom" of pi$$ing away $160 of power each year.

intercst
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<<Of course, the common Tea-Bagger with poor math skills would have just kept the old fridge in the basement and gloried in the "freedom" of pi$$ing away $160 of power each year.

intercst >>


Heh, heh! That's my method.


My favorite refrigerator was a Hotpoint probably dating back to the 1950s. It had a manual defrost and was given to me at a church rummage sale at the end of the sale when they had no place to haul it.

Personally, I tend to dote on old appliances.



Seattle Pioneer
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SeattlePioneer writes,

Heh, heh! That's my method.


My favorite refrigerator was a Hotpoint probably dating back to the 1950s.

</snip>


Really? You'd pay an extra $160/year in power costs to avoid paying $500 for a new refrigerator?

I rest my case.

intercst
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No. of Recommendations: 3
"With more than 2,500 fridges received by the nonprofit during the contest, the winner — a 1937 General Electric — was found humming away after seven decades in the basement of a Coquille, Oregon home, near the coast in the southern part of the state.

What Greer didn’t realize is that fridges built before 1993 can waste up to $200 a year in energy costs, compared to today’s more energy-efficient, ENERGY STAR® models, which average only $40 a year to operate. "

---

Well, of course, a decent new refrigerator costs $800 to $2000 depending upon what you get, and of course, the 'bite' from having to meet the latest 'energy efficient' standards. It won't last 10 years likely without a $400 repair, too!

At $100 extra a year in 'wasted electricity', in OREGON, it likely went to keeping the moisture out of the basement. If that refrigerator were replaced with a modern one, using less power and generating less heat, and likely taking less WATER out of the air in the process....

you'd need to buy a dehumidifier for $400 and pay $65 bucks a month to run it!


Worse, a typical 1930s refrig in good shape is worth a FEW HUNDRED dollars. Why would you 'give it up' unless they replaced it with a new one - which likely would crap out in less than 10 years? So you'd spend $1000 to buy something that would not last 10 year, or spend $100 a year for a new one?

http://www.auctionwally.com/appraisals/whats-it-worth-apprai...

Retail price of depression era refig....$300 plus....

You are better off spending $140 a year on extra electricity, keeping the money in the bank, and waiting until it dies to replace it!

No wonder the country has such a budget problem!

My 20 year old frig still works.....I checked it...it uses $15 bucks of juice a month. I could upgrade and save $6/month with a new one that costs over $1200 to buy and will crap out in 10 years. or less. The new ones are junque.


t
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telegraph analyzes,

Well, of course, a decent new refrigerator costs $800 to $2000 depending upon what you get, and of course, the 'bite' from having to meet the latest 'energy efficient' standards. It won't last 10 years likely without a $400 repair, too!

</snip>


Where do you buy your appliances, Nieman-Marcus?

Lowes has dozens of models at $500 or less.

http://www.lowes.com/pl_TopFreezer+Refrigerators_4294789497_...

intercst
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Yeah...but I have a side by side and its like 24 cubic feet..it has an ice maker which I never use and it is off.


They aren't cheap.

ANd of course, in TX there is 8.75% sales tax on top of that. Likely Loews will take away your frig, but charge you a $50 recycling fee to get rid of that 'toxic' refrigerant. And don't forget delivery , too.





t.
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Really? You'd pay an extra $160/year in power costs to avoid paying $500 for a new refrigerator?

I rest my case.

intercst


We recently bought a new refrig. On sale for $100 off, plus a $50 rebate on the old one. They even picked it up (and cut off the power cord). Net out of pocket was around $150, iirc. Then we presumably save $$$ on electricity.

IB
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I'm not surprised that guy was in Coquille. That's like the Land that Time Forgot down there. Anyway, tele wrote:

ANd of course, in TX there is 8.75% sales tax on top of that. Likely Loews will take away your frig, but charge you a $50 recycling fee to get rid of that 'toxic' refrigerant. And don't forget delivery , too.

You're getting ripped off. Nearly every part of a refrigerator can be recycled except for the gasket. Refrigerators contain pricey copper wiring and tubing which has value on the scrap market. In most cases even Freon can be recycled and re-sold. In Seattle, a company will actually pay you $30 for old, working refrigerators. And they'll come and take it away for free.

https://www.jacoinc.net/weborder/rebatex.aspx?ProgramID=6

I bought a new refrigerator three or four years ago at Sears. IIRC, they waived the delivery fee if I signed up for a Sears card. I believe I got a rebate from my utility company too.

I used the calculator at this site to estimate my current refrigerator's energy cost,

http://www.kouba-cavallo.com/refmods.htm

His website navigation kinda sucks but he also has a quick and easy calculator to calculate the payback time, as well as an estimator of your current refrigerator's energy consumption.

I can't remember what my payback time was was, but it was a reasonably short period of time. Combined with the rebate and payment for my old frige, the refrigerator replacement was very cost effective.

I can kinda see SP's attachment for old refrigerators the way some people like old cars, I suppose. But it is a fairly expensive hobby. Tele might as well be taking a blow torch to his money for all the good it does him.
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<<Really? You'd pay an extra $160/year in power costs to avoid paying $500 for a new refrigerator?

I rest my case.

intercst >>



I just got my electric bill from the city owned electric utility that gets most of it's power from city owned dams built in the 1920s-1940s.

$36.92 for 632 KWH. That's for two months.



Seattle Pioneer
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"Tele might as well be taking a blow torch to his money for all the good it does him." - sykesix
------------------------------

I don't think tele needs to worry about it. His house is paid for, his cars are paid for, no credit card debt, no wife, no kids, he doesn't drink or smoke or do illegal drugs. I think he's got plenty of money and that is why and how he is able to go galavanting around the country anytime he wants to. The life he's chosen works perfectly well for him just like intercst's life works for him.

We all choose different paths in life. Like my mom used to say, "you just got to live in this life kiddo!" Meaning that everyone is struggling through life as best they can. Although I get the distinct impression that tele isn't struggling too much financially.

Artie
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For $15 a month for the frig, I"m not going to rush out and buy one that only uses $12/month.......

In the winter, it keeps that part of the kitchen warm. A few degrees warmer.

I put my Kill-o-watt meter on it and let it run for a week. It's not killing the budget, believe me.

Of course, when I bought it, I bought a decent one that would last a while. Going on 21 years this month. Who knows? I may never need to buy a new one.

Of course, the dishwasher died about six months ago. Now I wash the dishes by hand. I'm waiting till I"m home for one of the super sales over the holidays. I'm usually gone. Maybe xmas this year ...or new Years.


t.
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I don't think tele needs to worry about it. His house is paid for, his cars are paid for, no credit card debt, no wife, no kids, he doesn't drink or smoke or do illegal drugs. I think he's got plenty of money and that is why and how he is able to go galavanting around the country anytime he wants to. The life he's chosen works perfectly well for him just like intercst's life works for him.

We all choose different paths in life. Like my mom used to say, "you just got to live in this life kiddo!" Meaning that everyone is struggling through life as best they can. Although I get the distinct impression that tele isn't struggling too much financially.


I can grok that. Some years ago, was a poster named JABOA who wrote that he dropped a ton of cash on a harpsichord over on the LBYM board. That was viewed as highly controversial at the time, but as it turns out JABOA died a short time later. Had he not spent the cash, he never would have gotten the enjoyment out of playing the harpsicord.

I can grok that SP likes the feel and vibe of old appliances. As I said, if he wants to spend his money in that area I can understand the concept. Just like some people like old cars want to travel, play golf, or whatever else.

Tele however, says that wants to spend his money on needlessly high utility bills, and uses lies and distortions to justify his hobby. That's crazy. If you get a kick out of sending extra money to utility companies, more power to you. But don't BS about it. Just say you get a thrill by writing checks to your company be done with it.
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ANd of course, in TX there is 8.75% sales tax on top of that.

Darn those liberal politicians!

Srsly, I love my RV fridge. It switches seamlessly between using propane and electricity (older models have a third mode for 12-volt electricity). If all fridges could do that (where there's propane at the house) based on computing current cost, well...maybe the US would save on its aggregate electric bill.
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skyesix:"Tele however, says that wants to spend his money on needlessly high utility bills, and uses lies and distortions to justify his hobby."


My refrig uses $15/month of electricity. 21 years old.

A ndw one might save me $5/month...might....or might save me less than that. Who knows. I mean, they all pull some power, right?

-----

Well, here's the figures! ....



According to this table

Older units
Refrigerator (frost-free), 15 cu. Ft. (1996 unit) 150 kWh/mo $15.00/mo
Freezer (manual defrost), 15 cu. Ft. 90 kWh/mo $9.00/mo
Refrigerator (frost-free), 15 cu. Ft. (1996 unit) 50 kWh/mo $5.00/mo
Refrigerator (frost-free), 20 cu. Ft. (1996 unit) 54 kWh/mo $5.40/mo
Newer units
Refrigerator, 1.7 cu. Ft. 30 kWh/mo $3.00/mo
Energy Star Refrigerator, 14 cu. Ft. 43 kWh/mo $4.30/mo
Energy Star Refrigerator (frost-free), 14 cu. Ft. 57 kWh/mo $5.70/mo
Energy Star Refrigerator (frost-free), 17 cu. Ft. 73 kWh/mo $7.30/mo
Energy Star Refrigerator (frost-free), 19 cu. Ft. 80 kWh/mo $8.00/mo
Energy Star Refrigerator (Side by Side) 21 cu. Ft. 123 kWh/mo $12.30/mo
Energy Star Refrigerator (frost-free) 24 cu. Ft. 102 kWh/mo $10.20/mo
Energy Star Refrigerator (Side by Side) 25 cu. Ft. 132 kWh/mo $13.20/mo


-----

A side by side new Energy Star 21 cu foot refrig will cost be $12.30 a month to operate.

My current one costs me $15 a month (it's 21 years old). I measured it with my Kil-o-Watt meter.


Wow...I'd save a whopping $2.70 a month on electric bills by throwing out a perfectly good refrigerator and spending $600 or more on a new one!



No wonder skyesix isn't happily retired and has to worry about every nickel and dime!



t
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"Srsly, I love my RV fridge. It switches seamlessly between using propane and electricity (older models have a third mode for 12-volt electricity). If all fridges could do that (where there's propane at the house) based on computing current cost, well...maybe the US would save on its aggregate electric bill. "


Heck...those RV fridges are a real pain in the neck to keep working..need to be perfectly level to work. Yeah, just what we need..more 'gas' connections in every house - we'd have another 100,000 a year house fires and explosions......

great for an RV....sucks for home use.


t.
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Heck...those RV fridges are a real pain in the neck to keep working..need to be perfectly level to work.

True years ago, but not any more. Why, is your house tilted? ;-)

Yeah, just what we need..more 'gas' connections in every house - we'd have another 100,000 a year house fires and explosions

I've had gas in most places I've lived, including 2 semi-cr@ppy apartments in Harlem, and, whoa, no explosions yet!

great for an RV....sucks for home use.

I disagree.
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I bought a new LG 22 ft3 about 6 months ago during TX tax free weekend for replacing old, energy hog appliances with 'energy star'.

$640
No delivery fee, no haul-off fee for my 1980, 21 ft3 Hotpoint.

I probably could have sold the old one, on craig's list for $50 or so... to some teabagger to use as a 'second' fridge out in the garage to keep soda's and beer cold in the summer.

So call it $690 total.
ralph :-)
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"$640"

At a fantastic savings of $2.70 a month (new vs old)...... it would only take me more than 15 years to pay for it. I'm 65 now. So it would be paid for by age 80, if I'm still around.

If I got 4% on my money in the market (some oil stocks)......I'd be getting $25/yr a dividends too.

So you are telling me to rush out and buy a new $640 unit, likely only 10 year lifetime refrigerator, because I need to save about $8 a year!......

total savings a year in electricity = $33

Lost dividends = $25

Yearly savings = $8



Wow.......no wonder the libs in DC are in such a tizzy.

Right! We should blow another half trillion of failed stimulus to provide jobs at $375,000 per job! We need jobs. It matters not who is going to pay for them. Just think of the benefit! New jobs!

No wonder the country is broke.

BTW, my dining room table is 80 years old, the kitchen table is going on 40 years old, the sofa is 1985.....I did buy 3 recliner chairs in the last 12 years. The TV is 20 years old

The computer is 2 years old...that makes a difference.

t.
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If you read the story, intercest, you will see that the fridge was almost like an heirloom passed down from generation to generation, and had some sentimental value apparently--it was "mom's fridge."

Also, assuming your time has an imputed labor value, given that you apparently spend hours per day scanning the news for material with which you can mock others that you feel are "lesser" than you (actually you don't, you're just very insecure obviously), then you wasted way more money in your imputed labor value than the old grandma did by having the fridge for 50 years.
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Personally I think it's a scandal that the government would be seeking to destroy our heritage of vintage appliances.

In particular, the American development of home refrigeration is one of the great boons of our society and culture, which we have bequeathed to much of the rest of the world.

The same frivolous thing was done during WWII to destroy the history of early American automobiles as part of scrap drives.

These are great artifacts of our culture that people should be encouraged to preserve along with typewriters, early computers and other such stuff.



Seattle Pioneer

"We do our Part"
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At a fantastic savings of $2.70 a month (new vs old)...... it would only take me more than 15 years to pay for it. I'm 65 now.

A 1980s fridge isn;t likely to make it another 15 years. Might as well replace now and start saving rather than in a few years.

=alstro, doesn't replace appliances (or cars) till I hafta
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Personally I think it's a scandal that the government would be seeking to destroy our heritage of vintage appliances.
...
The same frivolous thing was done during WWII to destroy the history of early American automobiles as part of scrap drives.


Didin't we need the metal for ship building? We lost access (or at least easy access) to some ores in the far corners of the world during the war, plus I'm guessing that recycling scrap metal was faster.

These are great artifacts of our culture that people should be encouraged to preserve along with typewriters, early computers and other such stuff

Aren't you one of those who decries the loss of freedom entailed by historic district designations that save our architectural heritage?

=alstro, also loves old stuff, particularly turn-of-the-centry commercial architecture (eg city apartment bldgs, office bldgs & warehouses built in the 1880s-1930s), mid-century (40s & 50s) appliances and other household items...particularly anything art-decoish or moderne
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"A 1980s fridge isn;t likely to make it another 15 years. Might as well replace now and start saving rather than in a few years."


It's a 1990 General Electric.....it has needed one repair in 20 years...a thermostat.....haven't even had to replace the light bulb.....
So it is 21 years old.

Who knows? That 1931 made it 80 years.

Why buy the crap they make these days? The service people tell you that you'll get 10 years out of them if you are lucky.

My old one probably has a 50/50 chance of making it until I'm 75, or 10 years.

It works fine. When it dies, I'll buy a new one.



t.
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The oldest place I lived in was on Congress Street in Troy NY. It was a 3 story building....commercial drug store on the first floor, and two 4 bedroom apartments above it......

I spent one summer there...with a room mate.. He had 3 other room mates during the school year.

It was built 1860s. It had a tin ceiling in the living room. Big wood doors.

Gas pipes on the walls when gas lighting was there....and also had electric conduit on the wall...probably the second generation lights....first generation was probably just knobs...but who knows?

Steam heat from boiler in basement but we didn't need any heat during the summer. I went back to living in 1930s dorms. LOts of buldings on campus 1910 vintage.

Old is OK...is cheap.

Most of Troy burned down a few times....so oldest buildings are ones made of stone and brick.......

Yes, just about everything made of metal went into the scrap pot before WW2..and during the war..lots of radio stuff, panels, chassis, old pre war TV sets....and the gov't bought or took receivers and transmitters.(never gave them back)..... lots of trinkets went into the scrap - toys of all kinds....dime banks....mechanical banks....toys made of metal.....

t.
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Yeah, just what we need..more 'gas' connections in every house - we'd have another 100,000 a year house fires and explosions

I've had gas in most places I've lived, including 2 semi-cr@ppy apartments in Harlem, and, whoa, no explosions yet!


How many house fires are caused by natural gas, annually?

IB
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<<The same frivolous thing was done during WWII to destroy the history of early American automobiles as part of scrap drives.

Didin't we need the metal for ship building? We lost access (or at least easy access) to some ores in the far corners of the world during the war, plus I'm guessing that recycling scrap metal was faster.

>>


As I understand it, a lot of the scrap metal drives of WWII didn't produce useable metal.

I don't know how true that is, frankly.

Generally speaking, I oppose concerted campaigns of government cheerleading. It tends to be coercive and is often stupid.

Just leave people ALONE!


Seattle Pioneer
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<<How many house fires are caused by natural gas, annually?

IB
>>


Mostlt gas explosions are the main hazard. Needn't worry too much about fires...


I'm glad to be able to offer these reassuring words.



Seattle Pioneer
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As I understand it, a lot of the scrap metal drives of WWII didn't produce useable metal.

I don't know how true that is, frankly.

Generally speaking, I oppose concerted campaigns of government cheerleading. It tends to be coercive and is often stupid.

Just leave people ALONE!


I wonder how effective fighting the Nazis with pointed sticks would have been?
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If all fridges could do that (where there's propane at the house) based on computing current cost, well...maybe the US would save on its aggregate electric bill.



or nat.gas..

i recall Mom telling me that our first *fridge* (after ICE-box) ran on gas




(no idea what the difference in 'cost' would be for electric v propane v gas fridge)
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I've had gas in most places I've lived, including 2 semi-cr@ppy apartments in Harlem, and, whoa, no explosions yet!



wow me too! we are so lucky lucky!!!!

i think everywhere i've lived (65+yrs) has had gas and NO explosions ..maybe i'm due?



( actually ..some of these tea-baggers are so consistent at Making Up St*** that if they said their mother was brunette, i'd take that to mean they were built in a garage by albino Weasels

NTTAWWT!!!!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfc_KBC_fpU

http://www.king5.com/news/cities/seattle/Fire-engulfs-house-...

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/11/07/4035023/plastic-natural-gas...

In only 18 months, the residents in one small area of the Stonegate subdivision in West Davis reported a half-dozen gas leaks at their homes.

The leaks were quickly repaired, and Pacific Gas and Electric Co. in recent follow-up testing found and repaired four more.

The discoveries have prompted at least one Davis resident to raise a safety alarm about the Aldyl-A distribution pipe that delivers natural gas directly to homes in the subdivision.

And they reinforce a growing worry about the soundness of older plastic distribution pipe in wide use within the utility industry.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/11/07/4035023/plastic-natural-gas...



---


NYC loses 100 million gallons of water a day from leaking water pipes...some of them over 150 years old!......

I hate to think how bad the gas pipe distribution system is in NYC.......

or how many landlords have made 'repairs', or how many unscrupulous people have tried to bypass the gas meter? With rotten patches and fixes?

or how many ancient gas appliances one step away from leaking gas all over are around in NYC apartments?

(the wiring likely isn't too much better0.....

I got gas in the house here...but it runs in 2 inch steel pipes to the two furnaces, to the hot water heater and to the gas dryer connection which is capped off.



t.
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i think everywhere i've lived (65+yrs) has had gas and NO explosions ..maybe i'm due?

That reminds me why I sometimes do poorly at parties...I remember someone telling a joke that required you to believe that after 10 (or 100 or whatever many) coin tosses turned up the same way that the other way was "due." I blurted out that each toss was independent and assuming an untampered-with coin had a 50-50 chance of turning up heads (or tails) each time, with the odds not increasing after a run of heads (or tails). The group dispersed...
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i think everywhere i've lived (65+yrs) has had gas and NO explosions ..maybe i'm due?
====================
That reminds me why I sometimes do poorly at parties...I remember someone telling a joke that required you to believe that after 10 (or 100 or whatever many) coin tosses turned up the same way that the other way was "due." I blurted out that each toss was independent and assuming an untampered-with coin had a 50-50 chance of turning up heads (or tails) each time, with the odds not increasing after a run of heads (or tails). The group dispersed...



o well.....
some jokes, like sci-fi require a suspension of disbelief <g>

you're not supposed to blurt out /"no God doesn't work that way" or whatever,
you're supposed to either laugh at the absurdity of the premise, or quietly roll your eyes (i generally go for the latter)
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you're supposed to either laugh at the absurdity of the premise, or quietly roll your eyes (i generally go for the latter)

Oddly, the more relaxed or more nervous I am, the more likely I am to forget the "basic rules of engagement" ;-)

We should have a RELE reunion (or would that be "union" as we've never met before) and put me to the test!

uh-oh, I feel a poll coming on...
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At $100 extra a year in 'wasted electricity', in OREGON, it likely went to keeping the moisture out of the basement. If that refrigerator were replaced with a modern one, using less power and generating less heat, and likely taking less WATER out of the air in the process....

you'd need to buy a dehumidifier for $400 and pay $65 bucks a month to run it!


Huh? Where's the water going from the refrigerator? I've never seen a condensate line running from a refrigerator to a drain.

PSU
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Also, assuming your time has an imputed labor value,

Is there an imputed labor value from retired people?
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"Where's the water going from the refrigerator? I've never seen a condensate line running from a refrigerator to a drain."


This wasn't a frost free fridge...

the humidity wound up INSIDE the fridge and you had to scrape it off the coils and sides.


t.
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Is there an imputed labor value from retired people?

I charge myself $100 an hour for my gardening work. Expensive? Yes, but it's worth it.

IB Pore
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This wasn't a frost free fridge...

the humidity wound up INSIDE the fridge and you had to scrape it off the coils and sides.


Unless you were scraping an inch or two of ice per week, I doubt the ice buildup removed much water from the basement. Certainly not as much as a dehumidifier would remove. Therefore, I don't think the old refrigerator was a good dehumidifier.
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you're supposed to either laugh at the absurdity of the premise, or quietly roll your eyes (i generally go for the latter)

Oddly, the more relaxed or more nervous I am, the more likely I am to forget the "basic rules of engagement" ;-)


i think when nervous that's true of most of us ..



We should have a RELE reunion (or would that be "union" as we've never met before) and put me to the test!


dunno ...there's a couple here i'd be honestly afraid of being in the same county with them.


NTTAWWT!
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I charge myself $100 an hour for my gardening work. Expensive? Yes, but it's worth it.



reading your Garden stories --absolutely worth it!
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I charge myself $100 an hour for my gardening work. Expensive? Yes, but it's worth it.

I hope you asked for references before you hired yourself. Are you sure you can trust yourself?
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dunno ...there's a couple here i'd be honestly afraid of being in the same county with them.


NTTAWWT!


The only get-togethers I have attended were arranged through personal invites or through another (private) board. All were enjoyable.

IB
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hope you asked for references before you hired yourself. Are you sure you can trust yourself?

I asked myself for a resume. Student of the Jim Crockett school of gardening (Crockett's Victory Garden on PBS - The best recommendation I can find for PBS - it was wonderful.) There were some adjustments in moving from Boston (Crockett's home) to Southern California. For one thing, his soil tends to be acidic, Ours is so alkaline, I have never succeeded in getting the Ph up to acid. Also, our soil is like silt or adobe. But then, the TV garden started out as a parking lot paved with asphalt.

If you want to learn about home gardening, get the DVD's of Crockett's Victory Garden. Hint: The magic ingredient is Peat Moss. But it tends to be very acidic.

IB
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Unless you were scraping an inch or two of ice per week, I doubt the ice buildup removed much water from the basement. Certainly not as much as a dehumidifier would remove. Therefore, I don't think the old refrigerator was a good dehumidifier.

And who says you have to buy a dehumidifier in the first place?
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Crockett was the best! We still have at least one of his books.

The peat moss does work, even if acidic. We have clay soil in the Midwest. Our garden was at the foot of a small hill and would always be saturated when it was time to till. So we'd till in 3 large bales of peat moss to help it dry out each year. Sure it was acidic, but limestone is cheap and easy to till in with the peat moss. When we sold the house, after 30 years of this treatment, the garden soil was amazingly friable.

PM
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The only get-togethers I have attended were arranged through personal invites or through another (private) board. All were enjoyable.



glad to hear that since some of your encounters were with me..


recalling the time you drove through town and i took you to that seedy bar
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There were some adjustments in moving from Boston (Crockett's home) to Southern California. For one thing, his soil tends to be acidic, Ours is so alkaline, I have never succeeded in getting the Ph up to acid. Also, our soil is like silt or adobe. But then, the TV garden started out as a parking lot paved with asphalt.

If you want to learn about home gardening, get the DVD's of Crockett's Victory Garden. Hint: The magic ingredient is Peat Moss. But it tends to be very acidic.



??? why, if his soil is acidic, would he recommend peat-moss?


( my soil like yours is alkaline clay -- years of adding st*** to get it acidic enough for my Gardenia )
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Is there an imputed labor value from retired people?

Generally speaking, there is an imputed value to the services they provide themselves or others, even if not financially compensated for those services.
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dunno ...there's a couple here i'd be honestly afraid of being in the same county with them.

I suspicion that SP is very nice in person. And that tele is pretty OK, too. Not that they'd come.
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Generally speaking, there is an imputed value to the services they provide themselves or others, even if not financially compensated for those services.

So in your first response, you are suggesting there is some imputed income lost for the time spent on TMF for a retired person. Do you really think intercst is so hooked on these boards that he pays someone to do chores around the apartment so he has more time to post here. Doesn't sound like intercst to me.
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If you want to learn about home gardening, get the DVD's of Crockett's Victory Garden. Hint: The magic ingredient is Peat Moss. But it tends to be very acidic.

Loved that show and Jim's "bedside" manner. I can still hear the theme song (dammit, now I've got an earworm!). Peat mos, eh, I thought people liked mushroom compost these days (whenever I see that expression, I picture mushrooms, er, doing their business in a litter box).

=alstro, certifiable
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So in your first response, you are suggesting there is some imputed income lost for the time spent on TMF for a retired person. Do you really think intercst is so hooked on these boards that he pays someone to do chores around the apartment so he has more time to post here. Doesn't sound like intercst to me.

Oh you were talking about intercest specifically?

I thought your question was a general one.

I think intercest is a bitter, friendless, loveless millionaire who knows how to squeeze a penny and make lots of money investing in the stock market but doesn't have a clue about human emotions and empathy.

Those people, the people like intercest, can make a lot more money doing almost anything other than posting on the internet.
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Oh you were talking about intercest specifically?

Well, your response was initially directed at intercst only. It was not a general comment.

Those people, the people like intercest, can make a lot more money doing almost anything other than posting on the internet.

True but what I have observed of intercst, his primary goal in life is to not work.
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True but what I have observed of intercst, his primary goal in life is to not work.

I can't believe his primary goal is to make fun of little old ladies' refrigerators on the internet, or just scan the news on a daily basis to find easy pickings to say something nasty about conservatives; yet that is all he apparently does.

If he is taking trips to the tropics with Doctors without Borders or actually doing something comparably useful with all his time, wealth, and abilities, bravo to him, and perhaps we could all benefit if he would post about THAT sort of productive, creative activity, rather than his constant and apparently pointless political, and personal, ranting.

I admire brilliant millionaires but I do think, esp. once they have decided they have a big enough pile of "loot" accumulated, enough to retire at a very young age (he's in his 40's or maybe 50's, correct?), they actually DO have at least a moral obligation to "give back."

Although I'm not by any means a "progressive" it seems to me a lot of you folks ARE.

You have a millionaire amongst you, a retired millionaire, and rather than actually try to get him to do something productive for society, all you do is encourage his politicized, pointless nastiness.

Oh well that's libtards for you. Better to curse the darkness than to light a flame.
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politicized, pointless nastiness.

Oh well that's libtards for you.


Snort! Sort of funny that these words were posted consecutively.
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recalling the time you drove through town and i took you to that seedy bar

I like seedy bars.
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??? why, if his soil is acidic, would he recommend peat-moss?

PM was his favorite amendment, after compost (well composted vegetable matter). He added lime to "sweeten the soil".
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I think intercest is a bitter, friendless, loveless millionaire who knows how to squeeze a penny and make lots of money investing in the stock market but doesn't have a clue about human emotions and empathy.

Ladies and gentlemen! We have a psychoanalyst in our midst! Maybe a psychic as well, what with being able to glean so much about a person so quickly, by reading a discussion board! Remarkable!

IB
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I think intercest is a bitter, friendless, loveless millionaire

I can't recall him ever sounding bitter. Dark humored on occasion, but more fun-loving, it seems to me. And as for friendless, he's one of the most popular guys on TMF, and I seem to recall him mentioning doing stuff with friends. And check out his website--he's doing that for the benefit of the public. He helped me realize I could retire at 55--lots of folks on TMF have reason to be grateful to him.

Say, what do you do for the benefit of the public, Leroy?
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once they have decided they have a big enough pile of "loot" accumulated, enough to retire at a very young age (he's in his 40's or maybe 50's, correct?), they actually DO have at least a moral obligation to "give back."

libtard!!!
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"You have a millionaire amongst you, a retired millionaire, and rather than actually try to get him to do something productive for society, all you do is encourage his politicized, pointless nastiness.

Oh well that's libtards for you. Better to curse the darkness than to light a flame." - LeroyLoJack

------------------------


Intercst wrote the book on how to retire early and set up a free internet site that has helped hundreds, maybe even thousands of people on how to retire early. I think that is a big deal. I stumbled upon his internet site by accident. It taught me how to take early 72(t)SEPP distributions from my IRA and how to maneuver through a lot of obstacles to early retirement. For that I am eternally grateful.

The Retire Early Homepage

http://retireearlyhomepage.com/

I'd also like to say that you really don't know anything about intercst. I've met him in person and know a little bit more about him. All I can say is that you are wrong.

Art
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<<In only 18 months, the residents in one small area of the Stonegate subdivision in West Davis reported a half-dozen gas leaks at their homes.

The leaks were quickly repaired, and Pacific Gas and Electric Co. in recent follow-up testing found and repaired four more.

>>


As a gas fitter for a natural gas utility, I fairly often was assigned to monitoring some of the THOUSANDS of gas leaks on the company's gas mains and services.

Each was classified according to the extent of any risk to the public. Anything that was an actual hazard was repaired immedietely.

Most along urban streets were monitored monthly, often for years without repair. In rural areas, they might be checked once in six months.

Quite often, all that was needed was to drill holes in the street to allow the gas to vent off harmlessly.



Seattle Pioneer
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recalling the time you drove through town and i took you to that seedy bar

I like seedy bars.



good to know..

was askeered you didn't like it...


( at least no fights broke out .. so maybe not all that seedy )
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??? why, if his soil is acidic, would he recommend peat-moss?

PM was his favorite amendment, after compost (well composted vegetable matter). He added lime to "sweeten the soil".



ah ...so he used both PM and lime ...

where you should only need the former (+ compost if possible)
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Prepared the last garden bed today*. Planted some tomato seeds (Sorry about you folks in the North!). carrots, radishes, and bok choy. Started making a new bed in a little left-over space. My, the native soil is hostile! Will be adding peat moss and compost in the future.

IB Pore
*six existing beds. I am adding ont more. Thinking of asking for a raise.
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I think intercest is a bitter, friendless, loveless millionaire who knows how to squeeze a penny and make lots of money investing in the stock market but doesn't have a clue about human emotions and empathy.

I am STLL bothered by this statement. You know, I suppose "loveless" could apply to all of our single RELE folks, including SP and tele (and for all I know, Leroy--haven't noticed him mentioning a spouse/GF/BF). It's really rude and totally uncalled for. One of our best friends is a widower who was an only child--the thought of anyone saying this about him makes my blood boil! And if any of us lost our mates, we'd be loveless too, except for really close friends and family.

PS--I bet there are many more bitter, friendless, and/or loveless poor and middle class people than millionaires.

PPS--Maybe this struck a nerve because I have friends & relations who have low EQ--just born that way. I'm a bit on the Aspbergerish, introverted side and somewhat socially awkward myself. Might as well criticize someone for having straight hair or a limp. Jesus.

PPPS--And what was Leroy complaining about, anyhow? That intercst is insufficiently empathetic to conservative millionaires?! Well, me too! But my electric bill and homeowners' insurance are both significantly more expensive than my property taxes, our discretionary spending more than our income taxes. This was true when I was lower, upper, and middle-middle class. And the brief moment I was rich, too. I think some wealthy folks are just complainypants.
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I am STLL bothered by this statement. You know, I suppose "loveless" could apply to all of our single RELE folks, including SP and tele (and for all I know, Leroy--haven't noticed him mentioning a spouse/GF/BF). It's really rude and totally uncalled for. One of our best friends is a widower who was an only child--the thought of anyone saying this about him makes my blood boil! And if any of us lost our mates, we'd be loveless too, except for really close friends and family.
--------------------------
Thanks for the post, alstro. I didn't addresss the first nasty post because I must have that person on ignore. But I did see your posted statement earlier and did nothing. I should have posted my horror at the post, too.

How about we all put whoever did this on ignore? That is what we should do with someone who just spouts hateful vitriol.
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PPPS--And what was **** complaining about, anyhow? That intercst is insufficiently empathetic to conservative millionaires?! Well, me too!
•••
I think some wealthy folks are just complainypants.



another myth shattered --

i'd thought that if you didn't mention names &/or added "nothing wrong with that", posts wouldn't get yanked.


...couple days ago a very indirectly called someone "SOS" AND added "NTTAWWT"

but got yanked...


'complainypants' indeed.
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