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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 60158  
Subject: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 1:51 AM
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http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/organic-food-not-that-...

"I was absolutely surprised," said Dr. Dena Bravata, a senior research affiliate at Stanford and longtime internist who began the analysis because so many of her patients asked if they should switch.

"There are many reasons why someone might choose organic foods over conventional foods," from environmental concerns to taste preferences, Bravata stressed. But when it comes to individual health, "there isn't much difference."

</snip>


It sounds like another scam -- just like bottled water.

intercst
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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45185 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 9:20 AM
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"There are many reasons why someone might choose organic foods over conventional foods," from environmental concerns to taste preferences, Bravata stressed. But when it comes to individual health, "there isn't much difference."


I've been saying this for years.

Art

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Author: FCorelli Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45186 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 10:03 AM
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Overall, the way it's sold and marketed, yes. It's not "super food".

In my own case though I can react to a certain class of anti-biotics if I eat an animal that's been given one. I can't afford many more or maybe ANYMORE exposures like that. And they've ALL been fed a ton of antibiotics. I eat a low carb diet with very little eat so trying make that "rubic's cube" of a menu work is difficult. I always get organic meat just to be safe. Other than that, if I didn't have the antibiotic problem I'd eat the regular stuff

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45187 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 10:34 AM
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It sounds like another scam -- just like bottled water.

I like the convenience of bottled water.

PSU

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Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45189 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 12:30 PM
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I like the convenience of bottled water.

PSU


I like the taste of purified water. We have a Britta filter to make up a gallon or so at a time.

Count Upp

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Author: PucksFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45190 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 12:40 PM
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Most people I know who eat organic food don't eat it because of what is in the food. They eat it because of what is not in the food: pesticides, herbicides, hormones, antibiotics, etc. The only hard and fast rule I have about food is that I will not eat fresh tomatoes that aren't locally grown. Out of season tomatoes are imitation at best and are grown and harvested in ways that make their costs too high for me.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/14/the-true-cos...

PF

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45191 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 12:55 PM
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I like the taste of purified water. We have a Britta filter to make up a gallon or so at a time.

At home, I'll just drink tap water or filtered water from the refrigerator. When I'm heading out from the house, I just like to grab a bottled water than go through the routine of filling a reusable bottle with ice and water. It's quicker and I don't have to worry about losing the bottle.

PSU

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Author: Maraith Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45193 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 1:45 PM
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Here is the key information for me:

Over all, the Stanford researchers concluded that 38 percent of conventional produce tested in the studies contained detectable residues, compared with 7 percent for the organic produce. (Even produce grown organically can be tainted by pesticides wafting over from a neighboring field or during processing and transport.) They also noted a couple of studies that showed that children who ate organic produce had fewer pesticide traces in their urine. </>

Organic chicken and pork were less likely to be contaminated by antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

The scientists sidestepped the debate over whether the current limits are too high. “Some of my patients take solace in knowing that the pesticide levels are below safety thresholds,” Dr. Bravata said. “Others have questioned whether these standards are sufficiently rigorous.”

So, organic food is NOT the same as conventional food. It has significantly less pesticide residue. Also, I do not trust the FDA which is in the pocket of big pharmaceutical companies. So the limits they set are likely much higher than they should be.


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Author: Maraith Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45194 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 1:47 PM
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Sorry, that last paragraph should not be italicized. It is strictly my words.

I repeat them here:

So, organic food is NOT the same as conventional food. It has significantly less pesticide residue. Also, I do not trust the FDA which is in the pocket of big pharmaceutical companies. So the limits they set are likely much higher than they should be.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45195 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 3:27 PM
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PSUEngineer writes,

<<It sounds like another scam -- just like bottled water.>>

I like the convenience of bottled water.

</snip>


So do I -- tap water in a plastic Coke bottle.

intercst

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45196 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 3:32 PM
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"I like the convenience of bottled water."
------------------------------------------
"So do I -- tap water in a plastic Coke bottle." - intercst

--------------


My brother the beekeeper refills empty plastic jugs and bottles and freezes them solid. Then while they are out in the bee yards working they drink the ice water as it melts. It is very cold and refreshing when you are working out in the hot sun to have a nice cold drink to help keep you cool.

Art

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45198 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/4/2012 9:11 PM
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I don't like to waste money on bottled water (I'd rather waste it on organic celery, peaches and spinach ;-)

When I'm out and about for more than an hour, or when we're driving the RV, I fill one or two of our insulated steel bottles with ice and top off with filtered tap water. It stays cold for hours and tastes great--not all plasticky.

Pastured beef and chickens provide high omega-3 meat and eggs, the way we evolved to eat. If I'm gonna poison myself, I prefer fries, pastry and hot fudge sundaes to factory-farmed grain-fed beef and poison-drenched produce.

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Author: Volucris Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45211 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/6/2012 10:59 AM
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Where Organic matters:

You can reduce your exposure to these toxins by 90 percent if you concentrate your organic money on just 12 products: peaches, imported nectarines, strawberries, apples, imported grapes, spinach, lettuce, potatoes, celery, kale/collard greens, domestic blueberries and sweet bell peppers. Their non-organic versions are so soaked in pesticides that they're known as the "Dirty Dozen."


This is from the You Docs. I agree.

V

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45214 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/6/2012 11:52 AM
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Environmental Working Group (EWG) retests produce every year and makes a new list. Here are the 2012 Dirty Dozen Plus and Clean 15:

http://www.ewg.org/foodnews/summary/

When I shop at a conventional grocery, Walmart, Costco, or non-organic farmer's market instead of Whole Foods or other natural foods store or coop, I get more Clean 15 foods and fewer Dirty Dozen.

We eat 1-2 bunches of broccoli a week, and it's not on either list, so I buy conventional broccoli unless organic is at a good price--ditto green bell peppers, cauliflower, carrots, papaya.

Cabbage is Clean 15, and we eat a whole head of red, green, Savoy, or napa each week, usually 1/2-3/4 cooked in Asian and Italian soups and stews, and 1/4-1/2 raw in salads/cole slaw.

Yesterday we ate leftover chili, chard, and cole slaw, and tonight I'm fixing a Chinese soup with napa, tofu, onion, and shiitake mushrooms cooked in chicken broth infused with fresh garlic and ginger, soy sauce, sesame a oil, and a pinch of cayenne and 5-spice powder.

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45258 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/7/2012 5:58 PM
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Due to the problem of buiding immunity to antibiotics, I eat meat that has no hormones or antibiotics. Fortunately, here in Columbia, SC, we have two existing stores (and a Whole Foods on the way) which sell such beef, pork and chicken. Granted, it is a great deal more expensive, but when I need an antibiotic, I want it to work. I was advised by a local grass-fed beef producer, that the antibiotic given to chickens, pork and beef is Cipro. This is a very, very strong antibiotic used for Anthrax. Do I want this in my body at all times? No, emphatically!

I am fully convinced that the reason our children are "blossoming" so early is the fact that the milk they drink contains the hormones fed to the cows. This is absurd!

As far as fruits and veggies are concerned, I grow my own tomatoes and flowers organically. I do not believe in pesticides as there are natural ways of getting rid of pests, i.e., using beneficial nematodes, lizards, parasitic wasps, etc. If we have a healthy hard, those will be in abundance, or at least they are in my yard. If tomatoes are out of season, I go to my local organic grocery store and buy some from them.

Donna

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45259 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/7/2012 6:05 PM
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One of my very close friends does not understand why I am so "picky" in what I eat. I keep telling her that when we grew up, we did not have beef, pork and chicken which were fed hormones and antibiotics. That, of course, is not true today.

Yes, when I grew up we had DDT, which has long ago been banned. My father used it in his garden, and I am certain the reason he died of lung cancer is the DDT, as he never smoked and was not around second-hand smoke.

Mama ALWAYS really scrubbed the veggies and fruits coming out of our garden before serving, canning or, later in the 60's, freezing them.

Donna

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45261 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/7/2012 6:53 PM
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<<<<Yes, when I grew up we had DDT, which has long ago been banned. My father used it in his garden, and I am certain the reason he died of lung cancer is the DDT, as he never smoked and was not around second-hand smoke.>>


<<I am fully convinced that the reason our children are "blossoming" so early is the fact that the milk they drink contains the hormones fed to the cows. This is absurd!>>



>>


Donna,


I find your ability to draw dramatic conclusions amazing.


You are welcome to eat whatever you like, but frankly I don't find your arguments persuasive at all.

My admiration is reserved for the ability o9f "Big Ag" to reliably feed enormous numbers of human beings, and to feed them (us) very well at low cost.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: putnid Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45262 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/7/2012 7:05 PM
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I am fully convinced that the reason our children are "blossoming" so early is the fact that the milk they drink contains the hormones fed to the cows. This is absurd! - Donna

True enough. Another factor is that we are releasing a broad range of hormones into our surface waters (post waste treatment). Those surface waters consitute the potable water supply for a large fraction of the population.

Let me explain: Primary and secondary wastewater treatment standards apply to a limited number of compounds found in municipal wastewater. While those standards are important, no one envisioned that our wastewaters would someday contain a great many hormones and pharmaceuticals that we humans routinely excrete nowadays. We have already observed the impacts of this in aquatic organisms.

We ingest hormone infused foods. We ingest hormones via pharmaceuticals. We secrete these same compounds and flush them down the toilet. They end up in water we end up drinking...and we ingest them again (only this time, individuals that would have never ingested the drugs in question end up ingesting them inadverdently).

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Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45264 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/7/2012 8:32 PM
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Donna: Due to the problem of buiding immunity to antibiotics, I eat meat that has no hormones or antibiotics. Fortunately, here in Columbia, SC, we have two existing stores (and a Whole Foods on the way) which sell such beef, pork and chicken. Granted, it is a great deal more expensive, but when I need an antibiotic, I want it to work. I was advised by a local grass-fed beef producer, that the antibiotic given to chickens, pork and beef is Cipro. This is a very, very strong antibiotic used for Anthrax. Do I want this in my body at all times? No, emphatically!

Sad to say, the pathogens you may ingest are already evolved with their antibiotic resistance. It came from other people eating that food.

We are doomed to lose the war against the microbes.

Read The Coming Plague
http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Plague-Emerging-Diseases-Balanc...

Count Upp

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45267 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/7/2012 8:53 PM
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"We are doomed to lose the war against the microbes." - countupp


Good. There's too damn many of us. It's not like we're going to thin our own damn herd. We are a horny species and we keep inventing ways to reduce infant mortality and death in old age which makes us live longer and longer which makes for more and more people which is not what the world needs.

The world needs a break from humans so it can heal. Maybe if our numbers just decrease significantly for a while that might help. Especially the oceans.

Art

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Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45269 of 60158
Subject: Re: Organic Food a waste of money? Date: 9/7/2012 10:17 PM
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Ya pays ya money and ya makes ya choice.

Howie52
The freedom to choose your own poison and preferred method of
ingestion is certainly fins as long as you don't force others
to follow your lead or violate da law.

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