UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (41) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1949971  
Subject: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant.... Date: 2/7/2013 5:24 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 32
... for sport?

I was watching a thing on the illegal ivory trade - and they had a bit about how in a couple of African countries you can actually kill an elephant for a large amount of money and take the ivory legally as a "trophy". There aren't that many shot this way - but honestly - why the hell would you do it all?

They had a video of flabby (mainly) white bastards standing over dead elephants grinning like idiots. They showed footage of an actual kill as well. It was just horribly sad to watch.

I mean - what the fornicate?

How pathetic do you have to be to stand in front of a huge, intelligent creature and end its life for your entertainment? It's easier to understand (but not condone) some criminal doing it to take ivory to sell for a fortune, but just for the hell of it!? Why!? What on earth does it prove?

If any of you morons out there reading this would actually like to do this, then I am not going to be politically correct about - you are pure, unadulterated scum. If you ever do try to do it (which I somewhat doubt) I hope the thing crushes your useless skull in before you get the chance.

Is any wingnut here going to mount a defence for these atrocious piles of crap who need to kill something to get their jollies? Do you not think that in the 21st frickin' century that it demonstrates pathological tendencies?

Go for it, wingnuts. Defend the pointless shooting of an elephant. Make yourselves look like the dirtbags you are.

Or - show that you have a shred of decency left and surprise me. Say "no, I don't condone the shooting of elephants for entertainment".
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858323 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/7/2013 6:01 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 8

Go for it, wingnuts. Defend the pointless shooting of an elephant. Make yourselves look like the dirtbags you are.
...
Say "no, I don't condone the shooting of elephants for entertainment".


Well, I'm going to say:

I *do* condone the shooting of elephants for entertainment purposes.
Wildlife parks such as the Kruger National Park have too many elephants, and a rapidly growing population (7% per year).
What are you going to do with them? Wait until they've torn down and devoured the last tree and watch them starve?
I've heard contraception being suggested as an option, but I'm not sure how effective that is, and frankly, it's a bit ridiculous.

I'd say if you're going to shoot the elephants anyway to keep their population stable, you might as well earn money doing so and employ some people in the local economy.
It is crucial for the long-term sustainability of wildlife preserves in Africa that the local population benefits directly from the presence of such wildlife. One way to do that is to offer hunting safaris for overweight white men with a midlife crisis.

I don't know if I would go on such a safari if offered the chance, but I certainly don't condemn those who do.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858324 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/7/2013 8:44 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas.
How he got in in my pajamas, I don't know."
--- Captain Spalding ---

Ken

Print the post Back To Top
Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858339 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/7/2013 10:06 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas.
How he got in in my pajamas, I don't know."
--- Captain Spalding ---


I re-posted that on my facebook page.

Now there's a disagreement going over whether the quote is from the Marx Brothers or the movie- Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858342 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/7/2013 10:20 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
"Now there's a disagreement going over whether the quote is from the Marx Brothers or the movie- Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"

This should settle it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfN_gcjGoJo

Ken

Print the post Back To Top
Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858356 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/7/2013 11:40 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I'm more concerned about killing on a large scale than individual rich hunters (I also don't relate to the desire to kill for sport):

Like blood diamonds from Sierra Leone or plundered minerals from Congo, ivory, it seems, is the latest conflict resource in Africa, dragged out of remote battle zones, easily converted into cash and now fueling conflicts across the continent.

...

But it is not just outlaws cashing in. Members of some of the African armies that the American government trains and supports with millions of taxpayer dollars — like the Ugandan military, the Congolese Army and newly independent South Sudan’s military — have been implicated in poaching elephants and dealing in ivory.

...

The vast majority of the illegal ivory — experts say as much as 70 percent — is flowing to China, and though the Chinese have coveted ivory for centuries, never before have so many of them been able to afford it. China’s economic boom has created a vast middle class, pushing the price of ivory to a stratospheric $1,000 per pound on the streets of Beijing.

...

Foreigners have been decimating African elephants for generations. “White gold” was one of the primary reasons King Leopold II of Belgium turned Congo into his own personal fief in the late 19th century, leading to the brutal excesses of the upriver ivory stations thinly fictionalized in Joseph Conrad’s novel “Heart of Darkness” and planting the seeds for Congo’s free fall today.

Ivory Coast got its name from the teeming elephant herds that used to frolic in its forests. Today, after decades of carnage, there is almost no ivory left.

...

...the sharp increase in large seizures is a clear sign that organized crime has slipped into the ivory underworld, because only a well-oiled criminal machine — with the help of corrupt officials — could move hundreds of pounds of tusks thousands of miles across the globe, often using specially made shipping containers with secret compartments.

The smugglers are “Africa-based, Asian-run crime syndicates,” said Tom Milliken, director of the Elephant Trade Information System, an international ivory monitoring project, and “highly adaptive to law enforcement interventions, constantly changing trade routes and modus operandi.”

...

Some experts say the survival of the species is at stake, especially when many members of the African security services entrusted with protecting the animals are currently killing them.

“The huge populations in West Africa have disappeared, and those in the center and east are going rapidly,” said Andrew Dobson, an ecologist at Princeton. “The question is: Do you want your children to grow up in a world without elephants?”


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/world/africa/africas-eleph...

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: Beridian Big red star, 1000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858379 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/7/2013 1:10 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
What sort of scum shoots an elephant.... ??


Answer:Ted Nugent:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=19990722&...

How pathetic do you have to be to stand in front of a huge, intelligent creature and end its life for your entertainment?

I fully agree. Ted Nugent is pathetic.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858389 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/7/2013 2:20 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Wildlife parks such as the Kruger National Park have too many elephants, and a rapidly growing population (7% per year).

Well, there is some sort of disconnect going on. Maybe it's unique to a few parks, but overall the population is falling and they have been listed as "vulnerable".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant#Status

From 1977 to 1989, [African] elephant populations declined by 74% in East Africa. After 1987, losses in elephant numbers accelerated, and savannah populations from Cameroon to Somalia experienced a decline of 80%.

<snip>

In 2008, the IUCN listed the Asian elephant as endangered due to a 50% population decline over the past 60–75 years,


Print the post Back To Top
Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858402 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/7/2013 3:17 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
What difference does it make?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: CairnDad Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858417 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/7/2013 6:01 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I don't condone the shooting of elephants for entertainment.

If they are doing it for food, or to control an excess population, I am okay with it.

I support hunting but oppose the killing of animals for no reason.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858439 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/7/2013 9:39 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
Thomas Edison did it and filmed it. Except he didn't use a gun, he wired up a famous circus elephant and electrocuted it - trying to prove that his (DC) electrical system was safer than Westinghouse's (AC) system.

1,500 people attended the event, and the film was seen by millions.

By many reports Edison was a creep; ask Nikolai Tesla, who was stiffed out of a promised bonus by Edison and who departed, and built Westinghouse into a worthy rival to GE, which (following Edison's death) converted from DC to AC as well.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858447 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/8/2013 4:43 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
I'd say if you're going to shoot the elephants anyway to keep their population stable, you might as well earn money doing so and employ some people in the local economy.

The "hunting for conservation" bit was brought up - and the whole things is far from conclusive in terms of requirement and efficacy.

But let's for the sake of argument that elephants do need to be culled (again - not a settled matter). An African elephant is frickin' huge thing, and isn't terribly easy to be killed cleanly and quickly, which any non-sadist would obviously want. If it absolutely HAS to be done, throwing it open to any yahoo with the cash and the pathetic desire to do it so they can feel powerful is probably going to result in the animals suffering more than they need to at the inexpert hands of weekend warriors.

As Richard Dawkins has pointed out - nature IS actually "red in tooth and claw", and tremendous suffering is a constant in the wild. But one of the hallmarks of homo sapiens sapiens is the decoupling of action from instinct. No one needs to frickin' well kill an elephant for the fun of it. If I could take my point to the ultimate extreme, it'd be kind of satisfying to grab their elephant gun off them and make them sit down and start eating the carcas until their useless fat guts exploded. I wonder at what bite the realisation would kick in that they had just done something pretty damn useless.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858448 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/8/2013 6:34 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
I wonder at what bite the realisation would kick in that they had just done something pretty damn useless.


I realize that the idea of killing an animal for enjoyment offends you, but if we're going to kill the elephants anyway, we might as well enjoy it.

We kill animals all the time for our enjoyment. Nobody HAS to eat meat, and pigs are quite intelligent animals, too.
I don't think somebody who enjoys eating bacon is in a moral position to criticize someone who enjoys shooting elephants.

Unless you're a vegetarian, I think your position lacks consistency.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858530 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/8/2013 1:26 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
We kill animals all the time for our enjoyment. Nobody HAS to eat meat, and pigs are quite intelligent animals, too.

I don't think somebody who enjoys eating bacon is in a moral position to criticize someone who enjoys shooting elephants.


As usual, it depends on the circumstances. Elephants are a whole lot more rare than pigs. And pigs are raised for food. In other words, most pigs wouldn't even exist were they not a human food source. Being food is their purpose.

Culling elephant herds or killing elephants to protect fauna and crops is one thing. Poaching is another.


Unless you're a vegetarian, I think your position lacks consistency.

The history, politics and ethics of meat are pretty interesting. Humans are omnivores and have been hunting forever. The modern meat industry ain't hunting though.

An interesting book of a friend's journey from vegan to hunter.

http://www.amazon.com/Call-Mild-Learning-Dinner-ebook/dp/B00...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858548 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/8/2013 2:54 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
I realize that the idea of killing an animal for enjoyment offends you, but if we're going to kill the elephants anyway, we might as well enjoy it.

You've completely missed the main point of the post you're replying to.

If elephants HAVE to be killed for conservation reasons (still not proven, by the way) - selling the right to do it to amateurs is a pretty terrible idea.

Do weekend warriors have the:

- expertise to pick the most suitable animal for culling?

- skill to do it as quickly and painlessly as possible?

- oversight to make sure they are acting within the guidelines?

Please address that point - again, the main point - in any reply you wish to make.

Unless you're a vegetarian, I think your position lacks consistency.

I'm not a vegetarian, although I have found myself eating less land-animal meat these days.

But getting amateurs to kill animals is an entirely different thing to industrial processing with oversight. I know that oversight breaks down way too often (and distaste for the process is part of my lessening of meat-eating as well as just shifting tastes), but it still doesn't have the random factor that hunting does.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858556 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/8/2013 3:38 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
If elephants HAVE to be killed for conservation reasons (still not proven, by the way) - selling the right to do it to amateurs is a pretty terrible idea.

Not necessarily. Assuming culling is necessary, why not raise money for conservation/preservation efforts by selling a license to shoot an elephant?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858559 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/8/2013 3:51 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
why not raise money for conservation/preservation efforts by selling a license to shoot an elephant?

The point I've raised a few times now - getting amateurs to do it is very likely to increase the botch rate.

I'm not sure some cashed-up Russian oligarch or whoever the hell else gets up in the morning and thinks "you know what? I want to go kill an elephant" is going to be that great at doing it.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858616 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/8/2013 11:13 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1

- expertise to pick the most suitable animal for culling?

- skill to do it as quickly and painlessly as possible?

- oversight to make sure they are acting within the guidelines?

...
But getting amateurs to kill animals is an entirely different thing to industrial processing with oversight.

Those are procedural questions, not questions of principle.
Also, it's the wrong questions.
We're talking about Africa here and countries with a semi-literate population where you have a hard time finding someone to make indoor plumbing work.

In other words, the elephants are going to be killed by amateurs in any case, with the great white hunter almost inevitably being the better marksman (given that the typical game warden's daily wage will buy perhaps 3 rounds of ammunition).
Also, in my experience, concepts like "empathy to animal suffering" tend to be quite underdeveloped in the third world, so while the tourist might care about the elephant's suffering, the game warden probably won't.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858617 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/8/2013 11:25 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I'm not sure some cashed-up Russian oligarch or whoever the hell else gets up in the morning and thinks "you know what? I want to go kill an elephant" is going to be that great at doing it.

From my experience with qualification and work ethics in the third world (I live in the Philippines), I'd rather entrust that job to a bunch of 10-year-olds with arcade gaming experience than to domestic "professionals".

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858618 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/9/2013 12:23 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
In other words, the elephants are going to be killed by amateurs in any case

Not really. In a strange way, there ARE "professionals" at work. The ivory poachers use machine guns. Perversely, they have a vested interest in getting the animals down quickly so they can get on with their work and move on.

The cashed-up big game hunters want to do it all old-school.

And once more - the need to cull is most definitely NOT a settled matter.

so while the tourist might care about the elephant's suffering, the game warden probably won't.

The local wardens in the report seemed very committed. And perfectly attuned to suffering. They spent a hell of a lot of effort guiding an exhausted and traumatised juvenile whose mother had been killed to an airfield so it could be taken to a refuge.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858629 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/9/2013 4:56 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Here's some videos of elephant hunting.
The first two are quite interesting. In both cases, there is a professional hunter present. In number 1, the client screws up the shot and the hunter opens fire immediately after.
In number 2, the group gets charged by the elephant they are stalking, and the hunter (apparently) kills the elephant in one shot.
With safaris being conducted this way, I don't think anyone can object on the basis of animal cruelty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_AaKuIkqY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ4rqjg4NrM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m23rM2WYl8

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858717 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/9/2013 6:55 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
With safaris being conducted this way, I don't think anyone can object on the basis of animal cruelty

I'm not sure of you're just trying to be an agent provocateur for the sake of arguing, but of course they bloody-well can.

Hunting is a supremely random activity.

You are launching bits of metal at a mobile target with the aim of ripping through flesh, muscle and bone in order to hit a vital organ for a quick kill - if that is indeed what the aim is. Sometimes it isn't - hunters often talk about the thrill of the chase AFTER the first wounding shot to finish the minimal off.

And that's three samples - I am pretty damn sure there are much uglier episodes that go on that we'll never see.

Putting aside your unproven hypothesis that elephants need to be shot, I go back to my original question: what is the frickin' point? Here's a frickin' idea: go to Africa. See the elephant. Take a frickin' picture of it. Go home. You've got a souvenir, the animal gets to live, you've dropped some money in the country. Win-win. What's wrong with that?

If your mental well-being requires killing something for the hell of it, also employ a psychiatrist to work out why. It could be illuminating.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AdvocatusDiaboli Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858743 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/10/2013 4:20 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0

You are launching bits of metal at a mobile target with the aim of ripping through flesh, muscle and bone in order to hit a vital organ for a quick kill - if that is indeed what the aim is. Sometimes it isn't - hunters often talk about the thrill of the chase AFTER the first wounding shot to finish the minimal off.

And that's three samples - I am pretty damn sure there are much uglier episodes that go on that we'll never see.


Yes, but that's not going to be any different with culling.
I don't think that on average culling by game wardens is going to be any more humane than the type of safari you saw in the video.


If your mental well-being requires killing something for the hell of it, also employ a psychiatrist to work out why. It could be illuminating.

I've never hunted anything, but humans have been hunters since the dawn of the species, and big game hunting in particular held huge cultural significance in hunter-gatherer societies (even as its contribution as a food source was apparently relatively minor overall).
Perhaps we are both missing out on a fundamental human (well, male) experience?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858745 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/10/2013 4:29 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
And pigs are raised for food. In other words, most pigs wouldn't even exist were they not a human food source
______________________

Pigs, will exist, long after the last human is extinct.

They do just fine without us.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=feral+pigs&...

If they don't get too big though they are good eatin'.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858748 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/10/2013 7:35 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Pigs, will exist, long after the last human is extinct.

They do just fine without us.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=feral+pigs&......

If they don't get too big though they are good eatin'.
_________________________________

Give it some thought the comparison on many levels between pigs and politicians is pretty startling.

Lose your balance and become too vulnerable and both groups will eat you alive, the bigger they are the more useful, of course if you don't watch them though bad things happen, and if you overuse them, there are all kinds of bad consequences as well

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858908 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 5:52 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
I've never hunted anything, but humans have been hunters since the dawn of the species, and big game hunting in particular held huge cultural significance in hunter-gatherer societies

Some Viking funeral rites had something close to rape followed by ritual murder as part of the proceedings. Some things really are best left in the past.

Perhaps we are both missing out on a fundamental human (well, male) experience?

I doubt I'll ever feel "you know, what I'm missing out on is the killing of a random elephant so that I can feel like a natural born man". And I'll continue to see it as a completely unnecessary thing to do.

In the Metallica documentary, what made me realise the lead singer was a sad, pathetic, searching creature was not the psycho-babble he was susceptible to, but when he was relating how he went to Siberia or whatever and shot a bear. There was this look on his face that said it all - like "nope, that didn't fill the emptiness, but I'll pretend it did". (That, and the juvenile crappy music that he makes, but I suppose that's subjective.)

Print the post Back To Top
Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858913 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 7:13 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I doubt I'll ever feel "you know, what I'm missing out on is the killing of a random elephant so that I can feel like a natural born man". And I'll continue to see it as a completely unnecessary thing to do.

That poor elephant is starving due to over population on too little land!

Yes, but at least we know he is safe from the hunters

Bears

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859065 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:01 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
That poor elephant is starving due to over population on too little land!

As I have said a bajillion times - the need to cull is far from settled science yet.

I am talking about the setting-aside of this and focusing on the pure intent: those who just feel the need to kill a magnificent creature for their own edification. You can pretend that their prime or even secondary or lesser motivation is conservation if you really want - but then again you have a history of believing in a lot of nonsense as displayed by your output here.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859066 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:06 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I am talking about the setting-aside of this and focusing on the pure intent: those who just feel the need to kill a magnificent creature for their own edification. You can pretend that their prime or even secondary or lesser motivation is conservation if you really want - but then again you have a history of believing in a lot of nonsense as displayed by your output here.

Which output are you making this claim from?

Bears

Print the post Back To Top
Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859067 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:13 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Forgot the article ... sorry


Nov. 1, 2005 — Zimbabwean authorities are considering moving elephants from the country's overburdened national parks to Namibia after at least 50 pachyderms starved to death, a state daily reported Monday.

Some 50 elephants died in separate incidents in Hwange National Park in Zimbabwe's dry southwestern region, prompting senior government officials to visit the area to investigate the cause of the deaths.

"I wanted to ascertain on behalf of the government the main causes of the deaths of the elephants," deputy minister for environment and tourism Andrew Langa told The Herald.

The newspaper reported that the animals died "because of shortage of water and pasture."


http://animal.discovery.com/news/afp/20051031/elephants.html...


Sad to consider that this report of 50 Elephants starving was 8 years ago. Wonder what conditions are like now.

Bears

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859068 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:17 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
Which output are you making this claim from?

Your tremendous corpus of work here over the years.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859070 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:22 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
Sad to consider that this report of 50 Elephants starving was 8 years ago. Wonder what conditions are like now.

There are overburdened national parks - no one is denying that.

But the reasons are legion (including the classics: threats from poachers outside national parks, deforestation etc. etc.) - and the answers aren't always necessarily to be found by crashing high-speed metal into their brains.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859072 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:23 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Your tremendous corpus of work here over the years.

Throw me some specifics

If you are going to blindly insult me, at least you should provide the specifics from which you quote .... something worthy of the comments and the insult

Bears

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859073 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:27 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Throw me some specifics

Do your own homework.

It might be self-illuminating.

Start with your fantasies about climate change, for instance.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859074 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
But the reasons are legion (including the classics: threats from poachers outside national parks, deforestation etc. etc.) - and the answers aren't always necessarily to be found by crashing high-speed metal into their brains.

You believe it is more humane to allow them to starve or die of thirst?

I dont

Bears

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859075 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:29 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
You believe it is more humane to allow them to starve or die of thirst?

Read your own god-damn post - it said one option was MOVING them.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859076 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:30 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Start with your fantasies about climate change, for instance.

Facts is facts

22000 years ago the earth was blanketed with glaciers .... it has been getting warmer ever since ..... does not take much number fudging to prove that.

Thanks for the new insult too.

Bears

Print the post Back To Top
Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859077 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:32 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Read your own god-damn post - it said one option was MOVING them.

Research the subject, there is little land to relocate them to.

Now you insult me and curse at me?

Poor image to foster

Bears

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859080 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:42 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
22000 years ago the earth was blanketed with glaciers .... it has been getting warmer ever since

NO ONE ON THE BLOODY PLANET is arguing that there aren't natural cycles. This hasn't eluded people who have devoted their lives to studying climate. The important point is that humankind is having a forcing effect on natural cycles. Are you so frickin' obtuse that that unbelievably simple point can't penetrate your skull? Do I need an elephant gun to do that?

Yeah - I'll listen to some random wingnut reactionary whose ideology and political self-image is more important to him than fact - rather than the masses of credentialed, respected scientists and bodies who make sense on this. Fruitcakes and zealots are MUCH more credible than, say, the Royal Society.

Yes, yes - all of you are the equivalent of Galileo - cries of verity in the wilderness of a dogmatic orthodoxy. Honestly, it's hilarious watching you delusionals kid yourselves. Some of your moronic, mouthbreathing brethren actually think the world is a few thousand years old. What the hell does that tell you?

And I fully acknowledge that we don't know fully the precise extent or the effect. So you can shove a cork in your blowhole before you start to lecture me on that.

End of my contribution. You can now go on with all your ceaseless blather and prove my point of your addiction to fantasy.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859081 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 4:45 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Research the subject, there is little land to relocate them to.

Then read what I have already written - if it has to be done (again - not settled) getting weekend warriors to do it is not a great solution.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1859102 of 1949971
Subject: Re: OTish: what sort of scum shoots an elephant. Date: 2/11/2013 5:50 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
The important point is that humankind is having a forcing effect on natural cycles.

There is no proof of that


Bears

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (41) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement