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Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1951204  
Subject: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 8:59 AM
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Didn't Lurker Mom once say she was union?

I haven't read her in years but it seems I remeber a post she did talking about how the Republicans really represented rank and file values.

The Michigan law will end unions in Michigan, except police and firement who they exempted. Now that's interesting. Unions can only bargain with management if they can strike. Management can scab out any strike in a right to work state. That's why you have closed shops.

We're three generatiosn removed from the day when there was no forty hour work week, time and a half, paid vactions, or in fact all the things the current generation takes for granted. Those rights exist only because unions levered the plutocrats in to giving those benefits. I expect, in another generation, to see those rights all but disapear for average workers. Even now employers fire at will without any justification except in the few remaining union jobs.

Enjoy your Republican world. Glad i lived at a time where working folks still had some leverage.
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Author: FoolishWaldo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844198 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 9:19 AM
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I haven't read her in years...


That's a big mistake. She offers much of the entertainment value of this site, not consistently but regularly enough to be worth 3 minutes a day.

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Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844203 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 9:29 AM
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The level of ignorance she displays depresses me. But wasn't she a union member?

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Author: FoolishWaldo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844227 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 10:11 AM
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The level of ignorance she displays depresses me. But wasn't she a union member?

Yes. General Electric. I heard it from buff, so it must be true. ;-)

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844256 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 10:54 AM
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The Michigan law will end unions in Michigan, except police and firement who they exempted. Now that's interesting. Unions can only bargain with management if they can strike. Management can scab out any strike in a right to work state. That's why you have closed shops.

We're three generatiosn removed from the day when there was no forty hour work week, time and a half, paid vactions, or in fact all the things the current generation takes for granted. Those rights exist only because unions levered the plutocrats in to giving those benefits. I expect, in another generation, to see those rights all but disapear for average workers. Even now employers fire at will without any justification except in the few remaining union jobs.

Enjoy your Republican world. Glad i lived at a time where working folks still had some leverage.
_______________________

Some real housekeeping.

First off, Republicans no more represent the worker than Democrats do. While it's true that unions brought many things to workers the last several decades, the same is not true anymore. The big work is done, and the damage from years and years of complacent "negotiating" is ever present. If you look at the results of most union contracts nowadays, you'd see their end result. When discussing government employee unions, it's always important to discuss the end result of their work.

While I know many Dems think it's just great that automatic raises, pensions and benefits flow from their hard work, they fail to see the damage left behind by a complete lack of common sense. While it's great that people can band together to discuss and negotiate, the end result oftentimes is a taxpayer left holding the bag. Both Dems and R's are taxpayers in every town. Is it fair that a school near me has an average of 9 kids per class? The taxes in two separate town are now triple what they were just 18 years ago. While the teachers have been rewarded handsomely, the average taxpayer is drowning in property taxes.

I know, the Dem answer to this is to tax someone else so their conscience will feel better.

While I truly understand why many hard-working people think either party is on their sides, the truth cannot possibly be further away. For Republicans, Unions represent a political impediment to their ideology. Even though most Democrats that control big companies wish Unions would go away quickly, they understand the need to remain silent. Unions are at opposite ends of the voting block for each party, which is why Republicans are careful to exempt fire and police unions, and Dems kiss the butts of teacher unions.

So while you bemoan the Republican World, you never for an instant see that the world you've helped create is far from ideal. Out of sight, out of mind. Screw the little guy for ideology. Sounds a bit like those that you despise so much.

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Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844284 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 11:43 AM
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Nice rant but utterly menaingless. In fact it is barely cogent. The Gov of Michigan just ended unions in Michigan.

Clearly you agree that unions should be trashed. We are already seeing a huge decline in middle calss wage that happens to be running at the same rate as the decline of union representation.

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Author: markand4504 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844296 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 11:59 AM
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Clearly you agree that unions should be trashed. We are already seeing a huge decline in middle calss wage that happens to be running at the same rate as the decline of union representation.
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Holy frickin non sequitur!! Did that decline happen in a vacuum or in a vacuum factory? Google search 'globalization' and 'dramatic increase in supply of labor from illegal immigration'. Sheesh.

Mark

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844300 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 12:02 PM
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We're three generatiosn removed from the day when there was no forty hour work week, time and a half, paid vactions, or in fact all the things the current generation takes for granted.

There's been plenty of backsliding on that already over the last few decades. How many "professional" workers work just 40 hours a week anymore? Most people I know work a lot of mandatory, unpaid overtime.

Over the last three decades, wages have stagnated or fallen, depending on how you account for benefits.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/11/265311/graph-fam...

It should be noted that one of the greatest factors involved in American wage stagnation and the explosion of inequality has been the decline of strong labor unions.

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Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844364 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 2:04 PM
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There's been plenty of backsliding on that already over the last few decades. How many "professional" workers work just 40 hours a week anymore? Most people I know work a lot of mandatory, unpaid overtime.

Yup...and the sheep keep there mouth shut...........

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844380 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 2:25 PM
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Working folks do have leverage. Employers need them badly. With so many whiney yuppies around, good employees command a premium.

Racist yuppies spouting off out of jealousy? Those are the ones that get canned by HR departments. LOL

Pimples on the collective butt of those they envy.

JediG

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Author: Wessex99 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844508 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/12/2012 7:31 PM
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I think those rights will disappear far sooner than in another generation. I've now come to the view that it is well deserved by the majority of stupid who keep voting for right-wing filth. It's too bad that those who are not stupid (and not rich) will suffer also.

Wessex

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Author: patchdodd Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1844586 of 1951204
Subject: Re: PA housekeeping Date: 12/13/2012 7:02 AM
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We're three generatiosn removed from the day when there was no forty hour work week, time and a half, paid vactions, or in fact all the things the current generation takes for granted. Those rights exist only because unions levered the plutocrats in to giving those benefits. I expect, in another generation, to see those rights all but disapear for average workers. Even now employers fire at will without any justification except in the few remaining union jobs.


40 hour work weeks were trending and codified long before federal statute in the '30s. Henry Ford did it decades earlier and he was a half century later than its origins.

More notably though, regardless of labor agitation, none of these rights were codified during periods when laws allowed for mandatory union membership as a condition of employment. The argument that RTW 'kills unions' is patently false, as the right to collectively bargain remains the law of the land under the NLRA. Unions and union agitation are going nowhere.

But carry on.

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