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Author: TwoCybers Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 121598  
Subject: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 3:07 PM
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My wife has taken over many administrative functions for a small nonprofit organization. Currently Quicken Books for Non-Profit is being used to track finances. This organization has total income under $100,000 per year. The organization is going to hire two part time people since the founder/director has developed health issues. Intuit wants $200 per year for the payroll addition to Quickbooks for Non-Profit. This amount is more than the organization wants to pay. What are the alternatives?

Gordon
Atlanta
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Author: irasmilo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110896 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 3:31 PM
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My wife has taken over many administrative functions for a small nonprofit organization. Currently Quicken Books for Non-Profit is being used to track finances. This organization has total income under $100,000 per year. The organization is going to hire two part time people since the founder/director has developed health issues. Intuit wants $200 per year for the payroll addition to Quickbooks for Non-Profit. This amount is more than the organization wants to pay. What are the alternatives?

A quick search turned up Payroll Mate which sells for $99. I have no experience with the product, so I can't comment on its suitability for the organization's needs.

From my perspective, $200 isn't much to pay for a payroll package. Withholding tables and unemployment insurance, workers' comp, disability insurance rates change frequently and you want a solution that will be revised whenever things change. A good payroll package will also simplify the prepartation of any payroll tax returns.

Ira

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Author: Wradical Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110897 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 3:32 PM
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My wife has taken over many administrative functions for a small nonprofit organization. Currently Quicken Books for Non-Profit is being used to track finances. This organization has total income under $100,000 per year. The organization is going to hire two part time people since the founder/director has developed health issues. Intuit wants $200 per year for the payroll addition to Quickbooks for Non-Profit. This amount is more than the organization wants to pay. What are the alternatives?

Gordon
Atlanta

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They can look into a payroll service - Paychex, ADP, etc. Which is the way I'd go. But it will cost more than $200/yr. But not all that much more. Maybe $500/yr., but that includes all the payroll returns, W-2s, etc.

Really, $200/yr. is nothing, but that also means someone on staff is doing the data entry, printing out the forms, etc.

This is just the cost of doing business when you hire people.

Bill

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Author: ellipsoid Big red star, 1000 posts Global Fool Motley Fool One Everlasting Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110898 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 3:45 PM
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I agree. $200 is nothing.

I don't use PayChex or ADP because the just don't fit my business needs. I DO use the Quickbooks Online Payroll Extension and I think it works great for our needs. It is well worth the price. I would bet that the Quicken version is similar...

Ellipsoid

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110899 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 3:51 PM
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The organization is going to hire two part time people since the founder/director has developed health issues. Intuit wants $200 per year for the payroll addition to Quickbooks for Non-Profit. This amount is more than the organization wants to pay. What are the alternatives?

Since they were still marveling at the abacus when I came one the tax scene, I'll offer the old-fashioned method of just doing it by hand. There would be a big investment of start up time in learning the rules and getting everything set up with the state, but after that it's no big whoop. The starting point for Federal is Publication 15.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110900 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 4:02 PM
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There will also be annual updated required to keep the payroll software up to date. She should demand that they contract to a payroll service and not take on the liability associated with

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Author: ptheland Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110901 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 4:15 PM
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What are the alternatives?

Paying that $200 (or more) every year in payroll tax penalties and interest. ;-(

I wouldn't recommend the Quickbooks payroll add-on unless you have someone already on staff who knows payroll pretty well. The QB payroll stuff is not very good.

Frankly, I'd just hire a payroll service. Paychex and ADP are good choices. There are probably a number of local services in your area as well, although their quality will need to be checked out.

--Peter

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Author: OSUMAG Two stars, 250 posts Global Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110902 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 5:25 PM
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Since they were still marveling at the abacus when I came one the tax scene, I'll offer the old-fashioned method of just doing it by hand. There would be a big investment of start up time in learning the rules and getting everything set up with the state, but after that it's no big whoop. The starting point for Federal is Publication 15.

I agree with Phil. With only two employees, it would not be too difficult to keep track on a spreadsheet. There is a good, free payroll calculator on AccountantsWorld (requires registration).

http://www.accountantsworld.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?page=too...

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Author: ellipsoid Big red star, 1000 posts Global Fool Motley Fool One Everlasting Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110903 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 5:32 PM
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Peter,

I disagree about the QB offering being sub par. However, we may be talking about two different things. The Quickbooks Payroll Service that I uses works quite well for our needs. This is the payroll service that is tied to the Quickbooks Online version not the desktop versions. I don't have any experience with the desktop versions of quickbooks payroll service. I researched the PayChex offering and for our business the PayChex fees are much much higher, because we have a lot of parttime workers that earn very little money (this is a second job for most if not all of them) Our workforce is also very seasonal.

The Quickbooks Online Payroll service does have a few differences from the Paychex offering that I know about. Mainly, it has to do with when and how the money is taken from the business account to pay for payroll taxes. My understanding is that PayChex takes all the money for the taxes and the actual pay out of your bank account right before or when the checks are issued. They pay the tax and file the returns (I think) for you. The QBO Payroll doesn't automaically pay these taxes for you nor does it send in the returns. However, it does generate the checks (tax and pay) for you to mail and also creates all the tax returns that are required - it even tells you where to mail the tax return and the tax checks, if mailing the checks is how you decide to do it. PayChex keeps the float on the money QBO does not. In exchange for this float and higher fees Paychex guarantees that you will not pay any IRS penalties on payroll that is submitted to them. The interest on the float is not much at all, so not a big difference. But some of our checks are not cashed for months which allows for a lower line of credit. Again - most of our checks are for part time pay and a second job so sometimes our employees will save our checks for say the Holiday season - I know it doesn't make great sense, but they do it.

To be completely forthright, I have forgotten to send in an IRS payroll tax payment or two and the IRS has fined me. HOWEVER, in my case the fine was significantly less than the PayChex higher fee. So, it was and is worth doing the payroll myself. I will freely admit that my business is out of the norm and PayChex no penalty guarantee might be worth losing the float and the higher fees in most cases. However, I do not agree that the "QB payroll stuff is not very good." It is GREAT for my needs and my business. In fact, I'd say that it is perfect for my needs and abilities.

I understand that it may not be the right fit for everyone or every business. However, that does not mean that the service is "not very good"

The buyer should research the different offerings and select the service that best fits their needs.

Ellipsoid

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Author: nwvic Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110904 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 5:48 PM
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Been there, done that. I understand that $200 per year can seem like a lot to a small NFP where every penny counts. I am a CPA, and my time is worth something, so I hate doing payroll by hand, even for two employees. I use PayWindow by ZPay. Free for the first month. If you like it, it's about $90 for the first calendar year, and about half that for annual updates. If you can wait until Oct. 1 to buy it, and you probably can with the 30 day free trial, you will get next year's version free. The program is regularly updated, the author is responsive, and on-line support is decent. You still need to have an idea of what you are doing, but it makes it pretty easy. It even has support for automatic deposit. And all of your data stays on your computer.

If you want to try it, get it here: http://zpay.com/index.htm

I have no financial interest in the company. In fact, I own stock in Paychex. For me, PayWindow is economical, flexible, and just right.

Best of luck to your wife and the organization.

Foolish regards,

Vic
ancora imparo

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Author: TchrP Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110905 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 6:20 PM
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I direct a nonprofit organization with two FT employees and about ten PT employees.

We keep our books using Quickbooks nonprofit version, obtained inexpensively through techsoup.org, but our treasurer also balks at the fee for the payroll add-on, so we do payroll with Z-Pay PayWindow, http://www.zpay.com/.

It works very well for us and in some ways is superior to what we had with Quickbooks payroll, but posting to the general ledger is less convenient; the Quickbooks integration was better in that respect.

If you want to consider a payroll service, be sure to look at those that allow you to enter all your data through a web browser; they are generally much less costly than those that take your data every pay period by phone or fax.

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Author: ptheland Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110906 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 7:53 PM
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I disagree about the QB offering being sub par. However, we may be talking about two different things. The Quickbooks Payroll Service that I uses works quite well for our needs. This is the payroll service that is tied to the Quickbooks Online version not the desktop versions.

I was talking about the desktop version.

And I'm only basing my comments on the number of times I've had to correct payrolls for clients who used the QB desktop payroll module. Granted, many of the problems I had to fix were likely user errors. But given the OP apparently has no idea what to do with payroll, I suspect going the DIY route will be fraught with peril.

For someone who knows what they're doing, the QB payroll module may be adequate.

--Peter

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110907 of 121598
Subject: Re: Payroll Issue - Non Profit Date: 8/16/2010 10:58 PM
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I have QB Pro and this year they increased my Payroll Subscription to $275.00. This time, I balked. I continued the Subscription through January 31, 2011, so I can complete my year-end reports and W-2 for 2010, and that's it.

I plan to seriously look into ZPay as it appears to have what I want, starting with the year 2011.

Donna

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