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I can't get excited about global warming, but peak oil (which gets no press) is something that I can very easily see happening in the near future. Here in Phoenix we got a glimpse a couple years ago, when our only oil supply pipeline broke; gas shot to over $4 a gallon, stations ran out of gas, and lines at stations with gas were literally around the block (though a lot of the problems were due to mass hysteria and stupidity--"I know I still have half a tank, but I'd still better fill up!").

Anyway, here's an interesting site on preparing for peak oil and economic collapse:

http://www.beyondpeak.com/index.html

One of the pages is about Cuba, which experienced this when the former Soviet Union (and their sole economic provider) collapsed, and how they're dealing now.

Ellen
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I was a teenager during the 1973 time when OPEC cut off U.S. oil supplies. My family and I lived in the Wash.D.C. area and supposedly the oil companies made sure conditions were worse there than other parts of the country as a way to incentive Washington to actually do something. There were lines at the gas station around the block and further .. there were articles in the newspaper about the long lines with all sorts of exaggeration about the conditions of the lines. That period made a significant impact on me.

Peak oil actually has some controversy about whether or not it's a real condition. I don't know whether the controversy is fabricated or not. From what I've read it's a very difficult to accurately determine the amount of recoverable oil in the ground. While it may be difficult to say when the peak will arrive or whether the peak has actually arrived already, but what is clear is that the overall model is sound. What's clear is that it's not a matter of "if" but "when" and "how soon".

I'm having a hard time envisioning the actual effect of Peak Oil, once it occurs, as anything other than Mad Max The Road Warrior. The backstory of that series of movies is, Peak Oil.

The way to avoid Mad Max is to start using other energy resources than fossil oil.

Modern science and technology already knows all sorts of methods to gather and use energy that does not involve fossil oil. There's a huge number of alternatives, many of which are successful and reliable technologies. But the decision makers only look at the relative costs of the systems and say that since fossil oil and fossil coal is the cheapest then that's where they'll continue to invest. But that will leave us vulnerable because according to the peak oil model when we hit the decline years, the decline will happen very quickly, more quickly than alternative energy industries can ramp up production to a level required to satisfy the world needs. What we need to be doing is say "screw the numbers, just start using the alternatives"

But with President Enron, Vice President Halliburton, and Secretary of State Chevron in office are we likely to see any proposal that does not continue reliance on fossil oil and fossil coal?

In Who Killed the Electric Car there was a very apt statement by one of the talking heads. He said There are somewhere around 1 trillion barrels of oil left in the ground (btw, that's the amount claimed by the peak oil people) and at $100 per barrel of oil (a cost that's not inconceivable given recent costs) that gives $100 trillion worth of business still to be conducted

Even in Wash.D.C. $100 trillion is an inconcievably large amount of money. That is the amount of resources the fossil oil and fossil coal companies have at their disposal to buy governments and laws and policies that will continue the worlds dependence on the product they sell.

- David
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Next time some self-appointed, know-it-all scold starts lecturing about how we're going to run out of something and it's going to lead to a disaster of mythic proportions, think about all the wringing of hands that took place over "peak oil". Then put that person on blast.
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>> Next time some self-appointed, know-it-all scold starts lecturing about how we're going to run out of something and it's going to lead to a disaster of mythic proportions, think about all the wringing of hands that took place over "peak oil". Then put that person on blast. <<

Wow, did you really have to perform a thread necromancy on something almost NINE years old just to score a few points on your soap box?

PS -- welcome. But if you didn't know, being new and all, resurrecting a long-dead thread is generally considered bad "netiquette".

#29
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I'm a bit bemused that suddenly someone has posted in Voluntary Simplicity. I made the board a favourite but never posted, just got on with simplifying my life, downsizing etc - got quite a shock when I sawthat there were two messages posted to the board. Goodness.
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I'm a bit bemused that suddenly someone has posted in Voluntary Simplicity. I made the board a favourite but never posted, just got on with simplifying my life, downsizing etc - got quite a shock when I sawthat there were two messages posted to the board. Goodness.
______________

Give credit where it is due. At least they were not about simplicity<grin>

That said.

I just finished on one of those sites (I used learnvest) that tracks your expenses.

My wife and I are getting ready for full retirement, I had retired, but she enjoyed her job more, so has kept working, but now is saying she plans on 3-4 years and she's out, she thinks it will take her out physically.

So I started looking at getting even simpler than I am now. I thought well, 'where am I now?' so I got on looked around and said, OK, let's start with how I spend money, compare reality to the spreadsheets I was using to determine how we would draw down in retirement.

What an eye opener that was!(is!). I spend a lot of money on stuff that is a waste! So I started on the road to smoothing things down and simplifying a little.

Yeah, my daughter is graduating in May, and some of the confussion is over that, but not all of it. So, in my case? First step toward simplifying is getting a plan on this issue.

I have had this board up for a long time, I guess it is about time I throw something on here.

There are just so many levels of simplifying to offer value, I hope others who have bee like me, and got caught up on politics or other trite stuff might have ideas etc to share that we all might grow from

If not hey, happy snow to those in the East from DC on UP!
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Hey low, I have 3 friends who are intrigued with the tiny homes concept of simple living. They have tiny house shows on cable.

I've watched the show, not all of it and have looked at pictures. For me, it sounds horrid. I'd be too claustrophobic. But it is simplifying and cheaper than traditional sized house.

Warrl lives in a motor home with his honey, not sure how big it is but big enough apparently for them to stay married. :)

LD
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Well I'm already retired and have truly simplified and decluttered down to serenity. I will have to say one of the problems I have with the small house movement is 1) its expense- it seems to me to be too much like a fad for rich folks and 2) because it's a fad it tends to suck in people who don't think things through - they go to an extreme and then find out they're claustrophobic or didn't plan for this hobby or that child or a pet ... I approve of smaller houses. There are already tons of them built. Small woodframe houses with one bathroom and two bedrooms and postage size backyards. Go move into one of those if your goal is truly to reduce your footprint and fix it up to suit you. If your true motivation is to indulge your lust for cute and the gypsy lifestyle and you have the money - then do that but be honest with yourself as to what you are doing.
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There are already tons of them built. Small woodframe houses with one bathroom and two bedrooms and postage size backyards.

Exactly. I bought an 800 s.f. house in Oak Cliff, a Dallas suburb in 1980. Two bedrooms, one bath. It was perfect for one person, but I sold it to a family of four. Cannot imagine that living arrangement. I know there are families that large living in tiny NYC condos. I salute them, but wouldn't want to be them.

I agree that these super-tiny 200 s.f. houses, for example, are a passing fad. You want something that small, buy a regular camping trailer. It'll cost less.

Chili
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Hey low, I have 3 friends who are intrigued with the tiny homes concept of simple living. They have tiny house shows on cable.
_______________

I watched part of an episode a few time, it is interesting.

The whole minimalist thing is quite interesting

A little more challenging than I intend though<grin>

I am thinking something with a master BR on the lower level and maybe 1/2 upper for the grandkids when they come, that I can completely ignore the rest of the time. One of those houses where the slanted roof makes the room kind of funky, I though that was so cool at my grandma's house(who knew I was sleeping in the attic!<grin>)
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How did you find the cutting back process?

OR where you always a little keep it simple?

For me, I expect this to come in waves of ever simpler over the next few years(I have a few I expect as my wife plans to work for a few more years, she enjoys it, God bless her). I do not assign much memory to 'things' but my wife does and I have no desire to stomp anyone's memories --- on the other hand I do believe too much stuff actually stops you from enjoying any of it. A few things you can leave around, easy to enjoy your trip to nice memories when you want too many and you are in a storage space foraging etc)

Anyway, still wondering how your move to simple was done, if you care to share
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I was a teenager during the 1973 time when OPEC cut off U.S. oil supplies

It wasn't OPEC, it was the Arab oil producers who happen to be member of OPEC. Non Arab OPEC members continued to pump as usual

The 1973 oil crisis began in October 1973 when the members of the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries proclaimed an oil embargo. By the end of the embargo in March 1974,[1] the price of oil had risen from US$3 per barrel to nearly $12 globally; US prices were significantly higher. The embargo caused an oil crisis, or "shock", with many short- and long-term effects on global politics and the global economy.[2] It was later called the "first oil shock", followed by the 1979 oil crisis, termed the "second oil shock."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

Denny Schlesinger
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