No. of Recommendations: 95
Wrong again.

Newsday, July 21:

Intelligence officials confirmed to Newsday Monday that Valerie Plame, wife of retired Ambassador Joseph Wilson, works at the agency on weapons of mass destruction issues in an undercover capacity -- at least she was undercover until last week when she was named by columnist Robert Novak.
---------
MSNBC, September 30:
CIA lawyers answered a series of 11 questions "affirming that the woman's identity was classified, that whoever released it was not authorized to do so and that the news media would not have been able to guess her identity without the leak."
----------
Mel Goodman, former CIA analyst, Washington Post online Q&A, October 1:
....I've worked in Washington for the past 38 years, including 24 years at the CIA...and I know Ambassador Wilson....and I did not know that his wife was an agency employee. Let's face it....this was targetted information as part of a political vendetta....a pure act of revenge.


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2003_10/002318.php

Do try to keep up, Maw.

Erik
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Do try to keep up, Maw.

Lurkermom was making a different point, SBW.

The term "covert agent" used in the original post has a very specific meaning within the relevant national security statutes, and does not embrace every single CIA operative whose identity is classified. It refers only to those operatives who, in addition to meeting other criteria, have operated outside the country within the last five years.

The fact that Plame was undercover and that her identity was classified is therefore not dispositive of the question of whether she was a "covert agent" within the meaning of the statute.

It is germane, though, to the wrongfulness of Rove's actions in disclosing her identity. There are plenty of things that are reprehensible that are not direct violations of statute.

Albaby
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Do try to keep up, Maw.

Erik
-----------------------


From the Wall Street Journal editorial.

"Media chants aside, there's no evidence that Karl Rove broke any laws in telling reporters that Valerie Plame may have played a role in her husband's selection for a 2002 mission to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore in Niger. But it appears Rove didn't even know her name and had only heard about her work at Langley from other journalists. On the no underlying crime point moreover no less than the New York Times..."

This is the key part of the Journal editorial.

"On the no underlying crime point moreover no less than the New York Times and Washington Post now agree that there hasn't been a crime committed here, so do the 36 major news organizations that filed a legal brief in March aimed at keeping Mr. Cooper and the New York Times' Judith Miller out of jail."


So...the new spin now from CNN is Rove lied to Bush and so can't be trusted and should be fired. lol...Bush will NOT fire Rove, but let's say it came to that. Rove will not go anywhere. He will stay on Bush's payroll. He's too valuable a person outsmarting the Democrats time after time after time again. :o)





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"Media chants aside, there's no evidence that Karl Rove broke any laws in telling reporters that Valerie Plame may have played a role in her husband's selection for a 2002 mission to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore in Niger

These people are liars, Maw.

"On the no underlying crime point moreover no less than the New York Times and Washington Post now agree that there hasn't been a crime committed here, so do the 36 major news organizations that filed a legal brief in March aimed at keeping Mr. Cooper and the New York Times' Judith Miller out of jail."

BS of the day.

Erik
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"These people are liars, Maw."

"BS of the day."

Erik
--------------

lol....good come back Erik...
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"These people are liars, Maw."

"BS of the day."

Erik
--------------

lol....good come back Erik...


The worst comeback ever is sarcasically saying good comeback.

Erik
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He's too valuable a person outsmarting the Democrats time after time after time again.

Mr. Rove's "smarts" include planting bugs in his own office in an attempt to discredit the opposition, using an opponent's work with children as a springboard for rumors of pedophilia, creating fictional campaign literature attacking his own candidate (once again, in order to make the opposition look bad), starting rumors that Bush-supporter John McCain fathered illegitimate children and betrayed his country as a POW, and costing a valuable public servant her job (at the very least) for political expedience at best and cynical cover-up of a tragic mis-calculation that led us to a war that has cost nearly 2,000 American lives and counting, at worst...

The candidate or office-holder who finds these traits "valuable" is not someone I want making decisions on my behalf.

For all your complaints and indignation about Democrats and liberals "sliming" and "bashing" the President, Republicans and conservatives, I'm surprised that you would characterize such behavior from the right as "smart" and "valuable".

How do you reconcile this seeming double-standard?

Speck
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The worst comeback ever is sarcasically saying good comeback.

Erik
--------------

I was only trying to be nice, didn't want to hurt your feelings. ;)
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How do you reconcile this seeming double-standard?

It is to the point where there is no right or wrong for them. Just look at the WSJ editorial on this matter...they said that anything that discredited Joe Wilson was something we should thank Rove fore. Doesn't matter if it was outing a CIA agent or not, the ends justify the means.

To Bush and his supporters politics is a salt the earth type of affair. Laws and ethics are not important. You can call a triple-amputee war veteran a traitor. You can out a CIA agent. You can use a woman who has been in a coma for 15 years as a political pawn. You can do all of those things you brought up in your post.

There is no moral issue, there is only the destruction of your political enemies. Any conduct is fair game, and nothing is going too far.
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From the Wall Street Journal editorial.

"Media chants aside, there's no evidence that Karl Rove broke any laws in telling reporters that Valerie Plame may have played a role in her husband's selection for a 2002 mission to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore in Niger.


According to Novak, Rove didn't say Plame "may have played a role" in sending Wilson to Niger. He said,

Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20030714.shtml

You'd think that the WSJ editorial writers could have looked this up as easily as I did, but why let accuracy get in the way of spin?

Furthermore, how on Earth does the WSJ know whether the Grand Jury has uncovered evidence of a crime or not?



But it appears Rove didn't even know her name and had only heard about her work at Langley from other journalists.

It doesn't appear that way at all.



This is the key part of the Journal editorial.

"On the no underlying crime point moreover no less than the New York Times and Washington Post now agree that there hasn't been a crime committed here...


Nevermind then. I say we refer all allegations of criminal wrongdoing to the New York Times and Washington post editorial boards. Who needs proesecutors, judges and juries?


...so do the 36 major news organizations that filed a legal brief in March aimed at keeping Mr. Cooper and the New York Times' Judith Miller out of jail."

I'd bet a week's pay that the above is an innaccurate description, a mischaracterization, (a lie) about what's in the brief filed by the media organizations.


So...the new spin now from CNN is Rove lied to Bush and so can't be trusted and should be fired.

Did Rove lie to Bush or not?

Is outing a CIA operative in order to exact political revenge against a dissident okay or not? (Let's leave the question of whether it's a crime or not to the prosecutor and grand jury for the time being.)


lol...Bush will NOT fire Rove, but let's say it came to that.

Of course not. That'd require integrity.

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He's too valuable a person outsmarting the Democrats time after time after time again.

Yeah, what a great piece of advice he gave bush on the Schiavo fiasco. And what a great piece of advice he gave bush on providing private accounts on Social Security. And what great piece of advice he gave bush on attacking Iraq with no allies to speak of.
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He's too valuable a person outsmarting the Democrats time after time after time again. :o)

How pathetic is it to care how sleazy someone is, as long as they win. The ends justify the means.

So much for you vaunted moral principles.

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BS of the day.

Erik


Do try to keep up, Erik.

-Darth
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The worst comeback ever is sarcasically saying good comeback.

Erik


Ummm...isn't that what you just did?

-Darth

P.S. I'm allowed to do it, because I think it's a decent comeback.
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You can call a triple-amputee war veteran a traitor.

If he is and naming him as such will reinforce the position of our troops currently in combat, then yes.

You can out a CIA agent.

But only if she isn't an "agent", and she has already been "outed" by journalists, and her husband is an arse.

You can use a woman who has been in a coma for 15 years as a political pawn.

Only if you believe that she is still "alive" (I didn't, but if they did, then they had to follow their heart), and people are trying to "kill" her.

"You're going to find, Luke, that many of the truths that we hold dear depend greatly on our own point of view."
--Obi-wan Kenobi (pity that my Sith brethren had to kill him, but...)

-Darth
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But only if she isn't an "agent"

Of course, if she is an agent then Bush supporters will concentrate on how revealing that information is dangerous to national security.

So basically, if she is an agent we should pretend she isn't and give those who broke the law a free pass to protect national security. At least, that is a conservative mantra when it is conservatives who betray the country. When it is liberals who question conservative policy, well their just traitors.

You just have to keep in mind, some conservatives aren't loayal to the United States, they are only loyal to the Republican Party. Thus their definition of treachery is disagreeing with or opposing Republicans, and they don't seem to care one bit about the United States of America.

(note: I'm doing my Rovian spin here, "some conservatives" doesn't equate to all conservatives. So only those conservatives who are actual traitors would object to my commentary. At least, using the logic many conservatives use regarding Rove's comments in the past on liberals)
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note: I'm doing my Rovian spin here

feleck,

You're definitely attempting some sort of spin, but you're no Karl Rove. You're about at the "wobble" stage.

-Darth
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To Bush and his supporters politics is a salt the earth type of affair. Laws and ethics are not important. You can call a triple-amputee war veteran a traitor. You can out a CIA agent. You can use a woman who has been in a coma for 15 years as a political pawn. You can do all of those things you brought up in your post.

There is no moral issue, there is only the destruction of your political enemies. Any conduct is fair game, and nothing is going too far.


Oh, please. It's so sad to read this comment from the party of James Carville & Dick Morris.

Let's not forget Sandy Berger's theft of documents from the National Archives so that the 9/11 commission wouldn't have access to all the pertinent information.

Using the IRS to intimidate your political enemies.

Using the FBI to smear a bunch of helpless travel agents so you can "legally" fire them and hire your friends.

The wanton destruction of government property just because your side lost the 2000 presidential election.
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Depends what the meaning of "was" is.
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Let's not forget Sandy (burgler)Berger's theft of documents from the National Archives so that the 9/11 commission wouldn't have access to all the pertinent information.

Using the IRS to intimidate your political enemies.

Using the FBI to smear a bunch of helpless travel agents so you can "legally" fire them and hire your friends.

The wanton destruction of government property just because your side lost the 2000 presidential election.


All that stuff is "different", what's a matter with you! Same with Dan Blather etc.

Sheesh, the hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds.

ES
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Mr. Rove's "smarts" include planting bugs in his own office in an attempt to discredit the opposition, using an opponent's work with children as a springboard for rumors of pedophilia, creating fictional campaign literature attacking his own candidate (once again, in order to make the opposition look bad), starting rumors that Bush-supporter John McCain fathered illegitimate children and betrayed his country as a POW, and costing a valuable public servant her job (at the very least) for political expedience at best and cynical cover-up of a tragic mis-calculation that led us to a war that has cost nearly 2,000 American lives and counting, at worst...

Almost tempted to create 1000 doppels to give this the recs it deserves.

But that would be too Rove-ish.
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"Using the IRS to intimidate your political enemies"

--That was a trick that was picked up from the Nixon White House.

"Using the FBI to smear..."

--oh, another Nixon trick of the trade...

"Let's not forget Sandy Berger's theft of documents..."

--Oh, lets go back alittle further and look at the Watergate break in...

"Dick Morris..."

--I believe he works for Fox News now....

So, the party that campaigns on the concept of values is also the party originating all the dirty political tricks.....

Then when you look at the number of people in the Bush Administration who owe their political beginnings to Richard Nixon...well, what else could you expect but deja vu?

TAO
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So, the party that campaigns on the concept of values is also the party originating all the dirty political tricks.....


That seems to cover both major political parties on our country. Which one are you trying to claim is better than the other?
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"That seems to cover both major political parties on our country. Which one are you trying to claim is better than the other?"

Lets go with none of the above...

The democrats self destructed sometime ago and still can't seem to get off the floor even while the Republicans are imploding....

We have the god awfulless mess for a political system the world has ever seen.....

As the need for leadership increases it seems that that the obviousness of our lack of leadership increases....

Well, with Rove and the Court nominations we can kiss social security reform, tax system overhaul, and budget reductions goodbye....

Whats more important running the country our locking in ones ability to control power?

TAO
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There is no moral issue, there is only the destruction of your political enemies. Any conduct is fair game, and nothing is going too far.

Great Post!

gnos
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The wanton destruction of government property just because your side lost the 2000 presidential election.

That should have stayed in-house....bunch of whiners.

The other posts thou, yeah we suck...execpt maybe Berger I don't know enough about that. I didn't hear about the IRS thing, please to enlighten.

gnos
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All that stuff is "different", what's a matter with you! Same with Dan Blather etc.

Sheesh, the hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds.

ES


I being a little lefty say, I'm sorry. Oops I was wrong. and other apologies and knowledge that I am just a big Homer sometimes.

Here's one for ya.

Welfare failed.

Your turn. Take something that your side cherishes. A failed Ideal. Tell us the mistake you made. A word. A sentence. A paragraph. A paper. It doesn't matter. Tell us something.

the hypocrisy of the right knows no bounds.

gnos
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BEEEEEEP! UH UH. I got yer hypocracy right here, gnos.


thuh right:

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND?


Kick THAT pig for awhile!

:-)
B
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yes, but they must admit they were wrong.

nothing good will come until then.

gnos

<ThinkChildren>
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gnos

admit they're wrong, of course. It's a bubble headed idea without a hope of accomplishing it's stated goals.

Not that it didn't help Texas schools, but I've found that ideas which work on a small scale don't always translate to a much larger one.

Texas is a rich state. Take "No child left behind" on the road to Mississippi or Louisiana and see what you get!

Blood out of a stone will not be one of your choices.

B
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here's <sort of> one for you by Tinkershaw. The body of the post is defending Rove, I think. <ggg>

I will say, it is despicable to out anyone just to gain political vengeance. Much like the old Travelgate thing with Hillary.

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=22743226

gnos
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It hasn't even been confirmed that she was on active duty when Novak printed her name.

Naj
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...the new spin now from CNN is Rove lied to Bush and so can't be trusted and should be fired.

Right. (Although of course Bush is not the only person that Rove has lied to.)

Bush will NOT fire Rove

Right. He won't do what should be done.


--SirTas


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"That seems to cover both major political parties on our country. Which one are you trying to claim is better than the other? "

Good point , last I remembered the Chicago water department is being
investigated for RICO violations.

Who can forget when Rove assumed a fake name and infiltrated Alan Dixon's campaign for Illinois Treasurer. Rove took campaign stationary
and used it to print fake invitations to the grand opening of the Democrat's Chicago office. He distributed it to homeless people, offering free drinks and food and women, and got a large turn out.
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It should also be mentioned that Rove was fired by Bush's
father in 1992 for Leaking to Novak.
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How do you reconcile this seeming double-standard?
Speck


The same way they justify everything
1) might makes right - as long as it is their guy
2) the end justifies the means - as long as it is their end
3) Bush talks to god and can do no wrong
4) It's Clinton's fault

Mish
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<<We have the god awfulless mess for a political system the world has ever seen.....>>

Simply put no. If you look around the world and throughout history politics is always this bad and worse. This is why we should give as little power as possible to the government.
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