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Right on Paul. I have read Mish's posts and have found nothing of substance other than derision of every one on this board trying to make sense out of chaos. Reminds me of a similar character on the Gilder Board who continually disrespected everyone who disagreed with his negativity. Short term, any psycho can be right. Long term, if we still believe in the American capitalistic system and the ability of the American people to overcome all the adversity placed before them, then we should be diligently looking for opportunity when logic and sanity return to the markets. We are now in a period of "irrational pessimism" as AG might say. The bounce will be as strong and unpredictable as the collapse was in 2000. Human behavior is best described as an addictive personality that magnifies everything beyond predictable measures. The bubble was insane and this selloff is insane. Sanity will prevail, despite the rantings of Maria Barfaromo (sic) and others. I am sure when the markets are up considerably(whenever that will be), then Mish will be there telling us he saw it coming.
Mish is not just some guy with a different opinion. He is an unbalanced, cruel and indecent person. All he knows how to do is to destroy. He is working very hard to destroy this board.LMAOI can not destroy this board.If it contines to practice LTBH it may eventually destroy itself however.M
Reminds me of a similar character on the Gilder Board who continually disrespected everyone who disagreed with his negativity. AND WHO WAS RIGHT?Gilder was a pump and dumper.Anyone who followed his nonsense and held LOST IT ALL.How many "Gilder wonders" are under $8 now? $5 now? $2 now? From the hundreds.Personally I am GLAD I remind you of that person on Gilder.No doubt we were both correct in what we were saying.M
I thought there was absolutely nothing wrong with Mish's post on the Berkshire board. Mish says things we do not like to heat--that does not seem to prevent him from being right. At least in the short term.
Two weeks ago a poster on the the Berkshire Hathaway board posted a tribute to his father. Here is that post:http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=17483527&sort=recommendationsThis poster used his his father's death as a kick-off point to promote his LTBH philosophy. Mish's response ( http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=17485690 ) addressed that posters' views on LTBH, nothing more.Mish is not just some guy with a different opinion. He is an unbalanced, cruel and indecent person........Mish is clever enough to stay on the right side of the TOU.And you?Jim
XaosSurfer, Have you gone a bit nutty or were you just sleep deprived before your post. Basically the guy posted that buy and hold is the greatest thing since baked bread. Mish replied with no its not and that there have been many time periods where buying and holding hurt badly. Um indecent where was the indecent. That was one of mish's nicest posts. It basically got to his beliefs and didnt but didnt pull punches. If one disagrees then state so, and reasons for that diagreement for this is what the board is for. To call someone indecent for stating his opinions on a post that he really disagrees with is more of what I would call indecent and downright foolish.
I will respond because I did not spell out my complaint.The man was eulogizing his father who had just recently passed away. Attacking a man because you disagree with the content of the eulogy for his father is sadistic. Defending such a man is pathetic. The only regular from the Mish board that challenged his was BouncingBear. He had the grace and dignity to ask that Mish back off.That was one of mish's nicest posts. Now I know all I need to know about you.Good luck with your investments.Paul
XaosSurfer, not trying to get into a war of words here. I meant that it was one of his nicest posts in the way that he did out and out call someone stupid or an idiot. He basically laid it out on the line that he really disagreed. Maybe Misheldo should have prefaced it with saying that he had nothing against the guy's father may God rest his soul. I certainly would rather someone tell me the error of my ways and help me to make money than worrying about how I will take it. Once again perhaps mis should have prefaced it or said it with more tack but I stand by my statement that there was nothing inherently indecent in that post of his.Hermonta
Herm. Thanks.If you see a followup post, you will not that I did indeed apologise for the way my post was taken and yes I could of and debatably should have started with sympathy for the death or something similar before my basic reply.Still, I felt that post needed a reply and I do not see how my reply was far out of line. Could it have been better?Of course.A few extra minutes might have done it.Paul's attack on me here was far more out of line than my reply on the BH board, but I thought Paul's post was funny. I even gave it a rec.M
Paul, So that everyone here can cheer, I am leaving this board unless I feel the need to reply to a taunt or otherwise defend myself, and/or to reply to an open thread. This process might take a day or a week and references to me or about my posts or ideas could make it take longer. You are not getting accomplished here what you want and I can see it is virtually impossible to change peoples beliefs about LTBH, GG principles, stock options, the economy, or in fact anything else.Hopefully for the investors on this board there will be a decent rally soon and hopefully some here will see that rally as another chance to get out. Feel free to stop in on my board anytime and post disagreements to anything I am saying there.Perhaps this message will lead people to correct conclusion that I am not a fear monger, I do not think I have any market influence and never did, and I am merely stating my views that the econony and stock market is going to hell in a handbasket (on a TA as well as FA basis). I freely admit that perhaps we could bottom soon (I just doubt it) and further believe that even if we do, the market isn't going anywhere in a hurry. OTOH, no one here seems willing to even consider that I could be correct, and what the ramafications that might cause to LTBHers.I wish everyone here the best of luck.M
Mish:These last few posts have been a bit disappointing. Please allow me a few constructive comments and observations that I hope you will take in the good faith that they are offered:1) You are a novice investor. I don't mean that in a derogatory sense but the fact is, you just started investing in 2000 as you freely admit. You really have lost your sense of importance in the investment world as you declare that you are the savior who has arrived to offer a previously unrecognized point of view. In fact, your point of view is in the majority and there is nothing you are saying that has not been said by many others well before you were saying it. You somehow now imply that you "can see it is virtually impossible to change peoples beliefs about LTBH, GG principles, stock options, the economy, or in fact anything else." I have seen this same attitude by the longs when we were in a bull run that I liken to an "I'm bigger than the market" attitude that will ultimately make you look bad. In the bull run, we saw the "nugget masters" popping in with this obscure company or that. In your case it is “sell sell sell” as the market continues to tank in the worst bear market in decades. My point is that you enamor yourself by merely happening on a stage that is so far going the direction you spout. The day will come that you will be perceived with far more scrutiny and your actions and comments going forward will allow you either a soft or hard landing as you choose. 2) This is your first bear market and you have little experience with bull markets. Your incessant predictions while riding the hard right edge show your inexperience. The more experienced know better……………… as the hard right edge is a very slippery place. 3) You admit to little experience with valuations4) You post more opinions from others than your own. In fact, you often just post a bunch of referenced articles with little editorializing. I really don't see some major exposes that you have authored presenting unique thought or processes.5) You really have left yourself a great deal of wiggle room in your posts with vacillations of market direction, timing, etc. You will no doubt call upon that wiggle room regardless of market direction to “prove” you were right again. In fact, you will not be.6) You seem to want attention and that will be your downfall. You cannot be bigger than the market. Why is it so important to you that you always be right?7) You communicate by anecdote rather than reason and that comes across as antagonism rather than simple disagreements. 8) You have created a lifelong investment philosophy based on your 2 year experience and have little back testing or hard data to back up your disdain for other investment philosophies. Lastly, and most importantly, you are creating some havoc on this board with posts concerning "Mish" taking up long threads of wasted time and effort when we should be discussing ways to make money. I hope you will find a way to be polite and recognize that you are too much a distraction to be of great value and move on as you have offered. While you have implied a “shoot the message” persona on this board, I can tell you that IMHO, it doesn't exist as I commonly see disagreements (some of which I have had) and these discussions remain confined to the message rather than the messenger. These various discussions have included some of your favorites including bears, bulls, Gorilla gaming, LTBH and the like. You argument that the NPI cannot handle these discussions is wholly unfounded and if anything points to your misunderstanding of the contributors here. Human interaction is a complicated event as someday you will recognize. Communicating as a team (give and take) is very different from that of a CEO (i.e. your opinion is the last that counts). The board format requires communication in teams (unless of course you are Warren Buffet). Great communicators know how to get their message across and they use various styles at various times to do so. Here you sit today so very young and inexperienced but perhaps with more potential than most yet…………your message is wasted by your inability to understand how to communicate. I wish you well in your personal and professional growth and hope one day you understand how your life can be enhanced by improving your communication and humility.BTW, as I have grown weary of these threads I shall refrain from any further discussion of the like and hope you will as well.
Mish,You miss the point. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about grace, class and dignity. If you knew all the answers then you should have amassed trillions of dollars and rule the world from your castle in Switzerland. Since you don't, I can infer that you do not have all the answers. Some people can tell you that you are wrong about someting and do it in a way where you are not offended nor put on the defensive. In fact you might just take a look at their side of the equation. Rudeness and the self-deluded premise of omnipitence just alienates people from what may be a justifiable argument. The people who have been active participants on this board do not need you to tell them that all their efforts are wasted and they are doomed. This is a board that I am proud to be a member of, and I have learned infinitely more from the likes of Paul, Denny, Matt, et.al., than I have ever learned from you. Have some class. If you disagree, at least do it in such a way that does not make everyone miss your point because you piss them off so much.
1) You are a novice investor. I don't mean that in a derogatory sense but the fact is, you just started investing in 2000 as you freely admit. You really have lost your sense of importance in the investment world as you declare that you are the savior who has arrived to offer a previously unrecognized point of view. In fact, your point of view is in the majority and there is nothing you are saying that has not been said by many others well before you were saying it. So what I am a novice. If you want to listen to Abbey Conehead, analyst PEG estimates, etc. Go right ahead. I have no vested interest. They do.2) This is your first bear market and you have little experience with bull markets.So what?I have studied the charts and past history.Past history suggests a prolonged bear market after such insanity that we had. Its gonna take many years for earnings to catch up with evaluations, or share prices to drop or both. You can ignore history or not. Your choice. I do not care. We had an 18 year bull market and never before in history has a rebound started with this much debt, and these high PEs, and this high consumner spending. What is it about this that I dont understand? Or perhaps something that people here just refuse to see. 3) You admit to little experience with valuationsOnce again so what. You want to listen to the FED Fund model or other such nonsense, or Abbey Conehaed be my guest. I studied history. We are way way overvalued on the basis of normal PE ratio, and at immensely high levels for a bear market. Thus the bear market is highly unlikley to end soon.4) You post more opinions from others than your own. In fact, you often just post a bunch of referenced articles with little editorializing. I really don't see some major exposes that you have authored presenting unique thought or processes.Now this one is insanely laughable. You criticize me for lack of experience. Then you criticize me for sharing viewpoints from others more experienced than me! Which way do you want it?5) You really have left yourself a great deal of wiggle room in your posts with vacillations of market direction, timing, etc. You will no doubt call upon that wiggle room regardless of market direction to “prove” you were right again. In fact, you will not be.Man you are grasping. For such an attack for someone who supposedly thinks things thru, you are claiming I will be wrong no matter what I predict. I will either be right or wrong. And yes, I reserve the right to change my mind. Is there harm in trying to be flexible? Aparently you have no flexibility. Those that do not have flexibility get stuck in the mires of LTBH forever. The long term trend is down. It will likely remain down. In the meantime we will have one or more bear market rallies, and yes thay can come at unexpected times or unexpected levels. It is impossible for anyone to get them all right. That's why I ahve been preaching caution.6) You seem to want attention and that will be your downfall. You cannot be bigger than the market. Why is it so important to you that you always be right?I have never procalimed to be bigger than the market. I have denied this attack 3 times on this board already. I laughed my head off last time this was suggested and now I see this nonsense again. Furthermore, I am not always right. Never said I was. 7) You communicate by anecdote rather than reason and that comes across as antagonism rather than simple disagreements. I have presented many many reasons , some historical, many based on TA, many based on FA, many based on the world economy as to why the markets are still overvalued. How many reasons do you need? If I seem antagonistic then perhaps beauty is in the eye of the beholder or perhaps sometimes I am. 8) You have created a lifelong investment philosophy based on your 2 year experience and have little back testing or hard data to back up your disdain for other investment philosophies. This one seems to be a repeat. Which way do you want it criticism of 2 years experience or criticism of posting viewpoints based on reading what others have to say. As for backtesting, I believe you are a little lacking. Do some research and show me how long bear markets last after major insane 18 year bull market runs. Lastly, and most importantly, you are creating some havoc on this board with posts concerning "Mish" taking up long threads of wasted time and effort when we should be discussing ways to make money. I did not start that silly thread. Someone here did. You are adding to this mess with yet another silly post, laughable for taking both sides of an issue and trying to use both against me at the same time AFTER I volunteered to leave no less, while reserving the right to respond to such posts. I wish you well in your personal and professional growth and hope one day you understand how your life can be enhanced by improving your communication and humility.Thank you. I wish you and this board well as well.M
Mish, your response was great and I mostly agree. Most of the posters are refugees from the Gorilla Game board and are knowledgable technocrats who are deeply frustrated. They come to the NPI board seeking sanctuary which bearish posts disturb. You may wish to resolve that you do not post to NPI more than once a day. Peace, :-)
Hahaha. Great post, dumaflotchie. But your communication method doesn't seem to come across. "STHU, come back in 10 years" would have sufficed.P.S. I would love to see his investing records for the past 10 years. Hey, if he wants to pass off as a guru, he should back it up, right? If he couldn't even do well himself, why should I listen to him about investing? A 2 day rise doesn't make a rally just like a 2 year experience doesn't make an investing career.
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