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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 63281  
Subject: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/1/2012 11:27 AM
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Methinks Obama has a good chance of election.

1)Baby boomers make up significant portion of electorate.

2)Many of them have lost their jobs & have health issues.

3)a tiny portion of boomers have adequate funds to retire but have health issues.

4)There are significant numbers of working poor [part of 47%] that do not have employer provided health care & will now receive "free" medicaid health care.
Yes-Obamacare could swing the election of Obama
No-Obamacare will elect Romney
Why is tj polling this cr*p?

Click here to see results so far.

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46053 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/1/2012 7:10 PM
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pol results from RE Campfire board

http://boards.fool.com/poll-obamacare-effect-30354025.aspx?r...

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46055 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/1/2012 7:31 PM
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"Methinks Obama has a good chance of election."

And methinks the opposite.....and 3 months ago, you would have said Obama has it 'locked up', right? He's going to lose, big time.

-------

"1)Baby boomers make up significant portion of electorate."

So? the 'early ones' are approaching Medicare age, have reached medicare age like me. The late ones will see no change in Medicare no matter who is elected. No one over 55 will be affected

And , in reality, the baby boomers are a small percent...remember, the elderly -- over 65....are a big big chunk....plus you have all the 18-50 year olds.....

20% of the baby boomers will be retired by Jan 1 2013.....another 40% will retire in a few years...... the last in 5-10 years and will so no change to Medicare..other than the 780 billion Obama plans to 'strip out' of it.

So this reason won't turn out many for Obama...

---------

"2)Many of them have lost their jobs & have health issues."

That's still a small portion of the boomers...and they can collect SS at age 52.5..or go on SS Disability...which then gets them Medicare 2 years later! Record numbers are going on SS Disability. Probably mostly boomers - with 'health issues' whether real or not.

So this reason won't turn out many for obama
------



"3)a tiny portion of boomers have adequate funds to retire but have health issues."

So? they work a bit longer, or retire early and go on COBRA...or SS Disability for a few years. or get an insurance policy through their wife.....or husband....or get their own policy for a few years.

------



"4)There are significant numbers of working poor [part of 47%] that do not have employer provided health care & will now receive "free" medicaid health care"

Ha.....the poor will get socked with massive penalties for not having 'approved health care' insurance......and they'll be paying for ObamaCare..or not be eligible for it. If you are on welfare you don't get ObamaKare...you have to get on the waiting list for Medicare...if your state will let you in....

and those poor are llkely to be 100% for Obama anyway so that doesn't get you any new voters.



--------

Your excuses fail..just like Obama.....

t

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46057 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/1/2012 11:22 PM
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So? the 'early ones' are approaching Medicare age, have reached medicare age like me. The late ones will see no change in Medicare no matter who is elected. No one over 55 will be affected

Wrong. You're not safe once on medicare.

Last year Americans paid $274 billion in Medicare taxes and premiums. At the same time, the program paid out $564 billion in benefits. That amounts to a shortfall of roughly $290 billion. Looking into the future, even the most optimistic estimate by the program’s trustees puts Medicare’s future unfunded liabilities at more than $38.6 trillion. More realistic projections suggest the shortfall could easily top $90 trillion.*

There gonna be alot of change in the future for those on medicare. Can we say rationing plus increased premiums plus doctor's reluctance to accept medicare patients.

So while you may be correct that bomers feel they will be safe once they reach medicare. They won't regardless of which prolific spending party is in power.

That's still a small portion of the boomers.

Wrong again.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat03.htm

If you pursue that link 1/4 to 1/2 of those age 50 to 64 aren't even in the work force depending on the age bracket or about 1/3 [30 million] overall. I question that they all are on disability or FIREd. That leave about 65 million still in the workforce of which 4 to 4.5 million are unemployed.

I don't think its an insignificant #.

As we know a large number of those over 50 are in poor physical condition & have medical issues. AS they are at risk of economic disaster in event of medical event; methinks Obamacare looks purty darn to them. And very well motivate then to vote for Obama.


*http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/24/romney-and-...

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46058 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/2/2012 12:48 PM
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"Last year Americans paid $274 billion in Medicare taxes and premiums. At the same time, the program paid out $564 billion in benefits. That amounts to a shortfall of roughly $290 billion. Looking into the future, even the most optimistic estimate by the program’s trustees puts Medicare’s future unfunded liabilities at more than $38.6 trillion. More realistic projections suggest the shortfall could easily top $90 trillion.*"

Hey, Obama promised me, along with Stretch Pelosi and Hairy REid, that folks on Medicare 'would be taken care of' if we re elected Obama.

Surely you don't think he is 'lying' do you?

WHich means the seniors won't have to worry. Obama will just raise 'taxes on the rich'...those 15%ers......and gouge the banksters, the oil companies, and all those nasty 'profit making' companies.

He'll put in carbon taxes. Raise taxes on gasoline till it is 9 bucks a gallon......just think , 40 billion or 80 billion a year in carbon taxes.


Then, likely he will try to get a 15% 'national sales tax' or VAT......which, of course, the rich will pay most of..since there will be 'rebates' for those making 'middle class incomes' with families.

You know he is going to take care of us seniors, right? He has a direct connection with the money fairy!.....He'll just tell the fed to keep printing all the money we need.

He already projected 20 trillion total in debt by just 2016. Heck, if Joe Biden follows in his footsteps, he'll run it up to 32 trillion. It's only paper money, right? Just print more of it!

But Obama will provide. Healthcare for nearly everyone!....and low cost too!.....

He promised it.

He also promised to reduce the deficit by half by now....promised to close Gitmo, and promised 100 other things, none of which he kept, but we just know he won't let seniors down with less care than they have now!

heh heh

Don't you remember saying 'Medicare as you know it forever!'....???


t.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46059 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/2/2012 12:58 PM
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Last year Americans paid $274 billion in Medicare taxes and premiums. At the same time, the program paid out $564 billion in benefits.

The Medicare tax has been far too low for far too many years. I would've been happy to pay more. Remember that Medicare took the place of NO HEALTH INSURANCE FOR SENIORS: corporate insurers have proven they don't want that business, at least at any price the 95% can afford. I note that the Medicare premiums paid by seniors have been rising, so that partial solution is already in place.

But my answer is catastrophic insurance for all (not just seniors, and with 100% coverage, none of this 80% chit like my corporate insurance)--by that I mean anything beyond the first, say, $2400/year per person, is covered in full. And more use of nurse practitioners/physician assistants/alternative medicine practitioners for first-line health care (I'm fine with that for myself).

I didn't vote for Obama because of Obamacare-not at all. I voted for him (yes, past tense--I just came home from voting early) for the Supreme Court, for protecting Social Security and Medicare, for not starting stupid wars that only benefit the military-industrial complex, for favoring the middle class rather than the oligarchs, for protecting federal lands and public schools--and the right to vote, marry, make decisions about our own bodies, and for equal pay, tax benefits for very small business (rather than big corporations or law firms/hedge funds/etc. with hundreds of employees), and the right to live with a secular government as our beloved founders in their great wisdom intended.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46060 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/2/2012 1:24 PM
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"The Medicare tax has been far too low for far too many years."

Jack up taxes!....kill the economy. Actually, what should be done is that seniors should be paying more.
------





" I would've been happy to pay more."

The government has gladly accepted volunteer donations each year. But you, WArren Buffet, and Bill Gates....despite their whining about paying more taxes...NEVER PAID A DIME EXTRA in VOLUNTARY contributions to the fed.

So, you would only pay more if a gun was held to your head? Got it?

You could have felt so much 'better' by simply writing a check for 10% more each year and saying 'keep the rest'.

-------

Medicare is bleeding red ink. The only solution is to make folks responsible for part of their health care costs. A lot bigger part.



t.

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46062 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/2/2012 3:54 PM
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The government has gladly accepted volunteer donations each year. But you, WArren Buffet, and Bill Gates....despite their whining about paying more taxes...NEVER PAID A DIME EXTRA in VOLUNTARY contributions to the fed.

Of course. Because YOU want to be a free-rider while other people "voluntarily" pay for your own shortfall.

It doesn't work like that. Roads don't happen because people "voluntarily" pay more for them, and if you reduce the military to begging for dollars then I assure you there will be a far smaller military.

No, you want to decide how to spend tax monies, except on things you don't like, so you put up this ridiculous shibboleth about how OTHER people should "voluntarily" send in money, while you sit in your kitchen playing with yourself.

So, you would only pay more if a gun was held to your head? Got it?

Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Taxes are voluntary; they are just the price of admission to whichever club you decide to join. If you don't like the admission fee here, go someplace else where it is lower. I hear Somalia is lovely this time of year.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46063 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/2/2012 4:16 PM
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<<Taxes are voluntary>>



Goofyhoofy spins off into outer space here.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46065 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/2/2012 8:02 PM
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"Of course. Because YOU want to be a free-rider while other people "voluntarily" pay for your own shortfall."

No.....I just want those libs who keep whining that they don't pay enough in in taxes to send in more, and stop their whining . that includes 'alstro'.

Taxes aren't voluntary unless you send in MORE than you owe.


----------

I"Roads don't happen because people "voluntarily" pay more for them, "

Actually, since 47% of folks don't pay taxes, but use roads, your theory is actually toast. Unless , of course, the 47% don't use roads, or have anything brought to them by road. Heh heh

Roads happen.
------------


"No, you want to decide how to spend tax monies, except on things you don't like, so you put up this ridiculous shibboleth about how OTHER people should "voluntarily" send in money, while you sit in your kitchen playing with yourself."

Oh, nasty nasty but typical Goofy's Revised Incorrect History of Everything'....

I want the gov't to collect as much as it spends, and to spend what it collects wisely....and not give most of it away to welfare weenies and queenies.

-------




"Nobody is holding a gun to your head."

You are right when it comes to 'voluntary' contributions that Buffet, gates and Alstro won't make.

As to paying your income taxes, try not paying them while making enough to owe income taxes.

We got folks sitting in the fed pen right now who tried that. Al Capone went off to the Big House for doing that.

--------


"Taxes are voluntary; they are just the price of admission to whichever club you decide to join."


Ha....with 47 not paying income taxes, it's the other 53% that get socked for building those roads, subsidized housing, foodstamps for 47 million and growing 75 times faster than the creation of new jobs.....

whatever club? heck, smart real estate tycoons pay zero taxes. Many other smart business men find ways to harvest tax losses, like Obama's buddies in the Solyndra case now planning on harvesting 170 million in 'tax losses' and using them to avoid taxes on that much other income.

It's just middle class folks who get clobbered with the tax burden....

-----



" If you don't like the admission fee here, go someplace else where it is lower. I hear Somalia is lovely this time of year. "

OH...the nasty goofy thing. Actually, I'd like to own a nice house on the Isle of Sark.....but they start at 5 million.

I choose to live in TX...no economy strangling state income taxes and reasonable business taxes and a friendly pro-business oriented state gov't and regulators.

t

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46067 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/2/2012 9:08 PM
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I'll freely admit that I won't pay more unless I'm forced to pay more. The only thing that will make me pay more is the threat of jail.

Art

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46068 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/2/2012 11:08 PM
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I think enough GOP Tea-Baggers have done the math and realized that making health care more expensive for them while giving a big tax to a wealthy prick like Mitt Romney isn't in their economic interest.

Obama will be easily re-elected on Tuesday.

intercst

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46070 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/3/2012 12:36 PM
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Last year Americans paid $274 billion in Medicare taxes and premiums. At the same time, the program paid out $564 billion in benefits. That amounts to a shortfall of roughly $290 billion. Looking into the future, even the most optimistic estimate by the program’s trustees puts Medicare’s future unfunded liabilities at more than $38.6 trillion. More realistic projections suggest the shortfall could easily top $90 trillion.*.

That is an almost nonsensical way to look at it. A portion of Medicare is paid for by payroll taxes. But a portion (mostly Part D) is paid from the general fund by statute. There is a "shortfall" in the same sense that the military has shortfall of $700 billion.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46071 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/3/2012 12:52 PM
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"That is an almost nonsensical way to look at it. A portion of Medicare is paid for by payroll taxes. But a portion (mostly Part D) is paid from the general fund by statute. There is a "shortfall" in the same sense that the military has shortfall of $700 billion. "


A shortfall is a shortfall.

You have to borrow money from the Chinese and pay them interest.

Interest is now a big item on the annual budget and will get bigger and bigger. If interest rates spike up - and they will - then just the interest on the current debt will grow to eat up most discretionary spending.

The fact that Medicare is bleeding red ink..in massive amounts, means it needs fixing.

It should be 'solvent' taking in as much as it pays out as there is no magic money fairy 'lock box'.......or 'reserve fund' as all that money was spent even before it got to DC.


You really think the Chinese are going to loan us 90 trillion? THere isn't that much money in the world.

At some point, and that point is not far off, it all collapses. Then no one gets anything. Period. Bankrupt.

Like Greece where state pensions cut 90%.....25% unemployment......and if you don't have cash, you don't get medical treatment.


t.

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46072 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/3/2012 1:22 PM
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A shortfall is a shortfall.

You have to borrow money from the Chinese and pay them interest.


Yes, but the shortfall is far, far smaller than that silly paragraph suggested. By law, a large portion (about half) of Medicare is supposed to be paid from the general fund. The general fund itself has a shortfall, but most of that is due to the Bush tax cuts, increased spending due to the poor economy (mostly Medicaid and UI), and wars of choice overseas. In other words, Medicare has a shortfall only the sense the general fund has a shortfall.

Increases Medicare costs are indeed a problem, but there are many common sense solutions to that problem. For example, the ObamaCare reforms extended the Medicare Trust Fund solvency by about eight years, to 2024.

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46073 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/3/2012 1:31 PM
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That is an almost nonsensical way to look at it. A portion of Medicare is paid for by payroll taxes. But a portion (mostly Part D) is paid from the general fund by statute. There is a "shortfall" in the same sense that the military has shortfall of $700 billion.

It might be worth pointing out that the "fear of China" is a right-wing shibboleth. Most of the "debt" is financed in the United States. Banks, corporations, individuals, pension funds, and more buy 85% of it.

Total foreign purchase of "deficit" debt: about 15%:

http://twitpic.com/apkfee

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46074 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/3/2012 2:11 PM
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That is an almost nonsensical way to look at it. A portion of Medicare is paid for by payroll taxes. But a portion (mostly Part D) is paid from the general fund by statute

The above statement is wrong.

The SMI trust fund has different revenue sources. There are no payroll taxes collected for this fund, and enrollment in Medicare Parts B and D is voluntary. Individuals enrolled in Parts B and D must pay premiums, which cover about 25% of program costs.3 The other 75% of revenues for the SMI trust fund primarily comes from general revenue transfers. Other sources of revenue include interest paid on the U.S. Treasury securities held in the fund and Part D state transfers for Medicare beneficiaries who are also eligible for Medicaid (dual-eligibles*

Thus roughly 50% of the medicare program comes from federal general revenues. As the number of beneficiaries surge due to baby boomers & rampant health care costs increases will result in an ever increasing portion of the federal revenues paying for the program reducing funding for other federal programs. Medicare is currently 15% of the federal budget. If no reform is enacted it is likely to double by 2030.**


*http://www.votefacts.org/medicaremedicaid/9/
**http://www.concernedactuaries.com/Text/facts_about_medicare....

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46075 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/3/2012 2:11 PM
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<<You have to borrow money from the Chinese and pay them interest.

Yes, but the shortfall is far, far smaller than that silly paragraph suggested. >>



Actually, Medicare is in FAR WOSE shape than suggested, due to continued exploding health care costs and the impending coverage of the baby boomer population bulge.

And Medicare has already being imposing unrealistically low reimbusement rates on health care providers for decades, boosting costs for other users.

The finances of Medicare are a shambles and a disgrace.


Seattle Pioneer

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46076 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/3/2012 3:27 PM
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The above statement is wrong.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Part D was fully paid out of the general fund, just that most of the payments from the general fund go to Part D.

Anyway, point is that is by design those portions are funded by general tax revenues, just like the rest of the government.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46077 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/3/2012 3:54 PM
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"It might be worth pointing out that the "fear of China" is a right-wing shibboleth. Most of the "debt" is financed in the United States. Banks, corporations, individuals, pension funds, and more buy 85% of it."


Actually, the treasury itself is buying 70% of the debt with more borrowed money!.....

And foreigners are wising up and now reluctant to buy more US debt.

Soon they won't be buying any and the currency crisis will hit.

t.

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 46101 of 63281
Subject: Re: Poll: Obamacare Effect Date: 11/5/2012 6:58 PM
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Tele, I do wish you would do some research before blowing off the top of your head.

<<Investing legend Warren Buffett has made good on a promise to match what GOP lawmakers volunteer to pay in non-obligatory taxes designed to narrow deficits.

Buffett says he'll cut a check for $49,000 to match donations made by Rep. Scott Rigell, a Virginia Republican, CNBC reports.

Read more: 'Delighted' Buffett Makes Good on Matching GOP Tax contribution.>>

See: http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Buffett-Match-GOP-Tax/20...

Donna

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