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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 60063  
Subject: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/21/2008 2:14 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/business/22air.html?_r=1&h...

American said it would assess the first-bag charge beginning with travel on June 15. The new charge applies to passengers who purchase discounted coach fare tickets within the United States.

Passengers who have already bought tickets for travel after June 15 are exempt from the first-bag charge.

The extra baggage fees will only exacerbate the situation on already crowded planes, said Patricia Friend, the president of the Association of Flight Attendants, a union representing 55,000 employees at 20 airlines.

“Too many passengers will now try to carry on even more rather than pay a fee,” Ms. Friend said.

“It’s the end of an era,” said Robert W. Mann Jr., an airline industry consultant in Port Washington, N.Y. Referring to the range of fees that customers face, Mr. Mann added, “Soon, like freight, we will pay by the pound for passenger air travel.”

</snip>


Poll question: Do you favor the pay-by-the-pound airline fare model?
No. I'm overweight
Yes. I'm thin

Click here to see results so far.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12565 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/21/2008 2:59 PM
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You didn't have enough choices. You need one for "Yes, I'm overweight." It sounds like a good and fair idea to me, and I'm 100 lbs overweight.

Of course the truth is that I don't care because I absolutely despise flying and I avoid it as much as possible. I don't like going anywhere I can't drive in a car to.

I would like to visit Hawaii but that's not happening unless "then a miracle" occurs and I win the lottery. I recently told my sister that I don't really have much motivation to travel anymore because I don't really care to travel unless I can do it in ultra-luxurious style. If I can't go first class I'd just as soon stay home. If I can't eat out at fancy restaraunts, sleep in a really nice hotel, and fly first class, why should I want to leave home?

At home I sleep in a king sized bed, have three TV's hooked up to cable, computer, DVD's, two refrigerators and a freezer stocked with food, etc. I cook better than most restaraunts that I've been to. Unless I've got the money to travel in style, I'd rather stay home.

Artie

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12566 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/21/2008 5:31 PM
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Of course the truth is that I don't care because I absolutely despise flying and I avoid it as much as possible. I don't like going anywhere I can't drive in a car to.

I would like to visit Hawaii but that's not happening unless "then a miracle" occurs and I win the lottery. I recently told my sister that I don't really have much motivation to travel anymore because I don't really care to travel unless I can do it in ultra-luxurious style. If I can't go first class I'd just as soon stay home. If I can't eat out at fancy restaraunts, sleep in a really nice hotel, and fly first class, why should I want to leave home?


Even first class isn't what it once was, and that includes pre-9/11, before they started treating every passenger as a criminal who hasn't been caught yet.

In 1999 a good friend got mad at United and called asking if I'd like to go to Europe round-trip first class on his points that he wanted to burn before he told them to bug off forever. I agreed. It was nice, but it really wasn't as good as business class was in 1993 when I first flew to Europe. No lobster. No caviar. Why bother?

Oh, goodie. My NOAA radio just sounded a severe thunderstorm warning for the next 35 minutes. Should pass south of me. I digress.

I'm fond of saying that my idea of roughing it is not having 24-hour room service available. It means reduced travel, but when I do, getting there is a lot of fun. Last year I managed to cross a Transatlantic crossing on the Queen Mary 2 off my list, with an ocean voyage home on a different ship. It was worth the wait.

Hawaii is my missing state before I've been to all of them. It will have to wait until I can afford to sail.

Phil

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12567 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/21/2008 8:07 PM
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To me it's not as much a matter of weight as it is the fact that if someone who is morbidly obese is in the seat next to you, you lose 1/4 of your seat and the "space" you paid for, more or less.

I'm not sure what the answer is there. It seems excessive to make them buy two seats, but on the other hand, it really can screw the traveler in coach on a coast-to-coast nonstop who has a 300-pounder next to them.

#29

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Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12568 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/21/2008 10:16 PM
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it really can screw the traveler in coach on a coast-to-coast nonstop who has a 300-pounder next to them.

Tell me about it! I recently got trapped that way flying from Rio de Janeiro to Miami.
Ted

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Author: amuseing Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12569 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/22/2008 1:28 PM
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"Tell me about it! I recently got trapped that way flying from Rio de Janeiro to Miami"

Just passing through but had to stop and smile and comment on this thread.

Just flown back to California from Philadelphia this past weekend and got to experience the other way of being "trapped".

Within minutes of getting settled on the Philly to Chicago flight the woman next to me couldn't help herself and I learned all about her grand-children whose mother was a heathen and they have no faith and she's so worried and on and on.....

Then on the Chicago to Oakland portion before I could get my iPod headset on I learned that my neighbor was going to Ca. to run in the Bay to Breakers..... naked.... and that next month he's going to do a naked bicycle ride.

Got that headset on as fast as possible....

V.

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Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12570 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/22/2008 1:37 PM
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hello amuseing, I had a look at your profile and saw that your job was "riding coach" Since we were talking about airplanes I figured you meant that you spent a lot of time riding in coach class (which may also be true) but when I looked a little further down, I gathered that you were talking about horses. Well, I was amused by the conclusion to which I had hastily jumped.

Ted :-)

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Author: karenfiftyone Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12571 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/22/2008 2:03 PM
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To me it's not as much a matter of weight as it is the fact that if someone who is morbidly obese is in the seat next to you, you lose 1/4 of your seat and the "space" you paid for, more or less.

I'm not sure what the answer is there. It seems excessive to make them buy two seats, but on the other hand, it really can screw the traveler in coach on a coast-to-coast nonstop who has a 300-pounder next to them.

#29


They don't even have to be fat. People who have broad shoulders encroach on their seatmates' space too.

karen51

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Author: hockeypop Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12572 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/22/2008 10:10 PM
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They don't even have to be fat. People who have broad shoulders encroach on their seatmates' space too.

karen51


No, if you're big I'll take it, if you're fat I'll charge for it. It IS my biase!

Hockeypop

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12573 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/22/2008 10:32 PM
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No, if you're big I'll take it, if you're fat I'll charge for it. It IS my biase! - Hockeypop
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually paying by the pound sounds fair to me and I weigh 300 lbs. Since there is some correlation between flight and weight and cost it only seems logical to me that fares would be based on weight? The idea appeals to my sense of fairness.

Artie

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Author: karenfiftyone Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12574 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/22/2008 10:57 PM
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No, if you're big I'll take it, if you're fat I'll charge for it. It IS my biase! - Hockeypop
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually paying by the pound sounds fair to me and I weigh 300 lbs. Since there is some correlation between flight and weight and cost it only seems logical to me that fares would be based on weight? The idea appeals to my sense of fairness.

Artie

----

I would only agree if bad packers were charged for every pound of luggage (carry-on and checked) they lug on board. I'd win on both counts.

I don't think it's fair though.

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12575 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/23/2008 1:08 AM
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To me it's not as much a matter of weight as it is the fact that if someone who is morbidly obese is in the seat next to you, you lose 1/4 of your seat and the "space" you paid for, more or less.

I've seen the same thing happen with men who are excessively tall. They just hang over into the seats on either side because they don't fold up. One man was taking up half the woman's seat next to him, and she didn't look like they even knew each other.

Vickifool

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Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12576 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/23/2008 2:51 PM
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How about having a few wider than normal seats? I'd gladly pay a premium to get a seat that was even 5 or 6 inches wider. Yeah, I know I can do that by paying a really big premium for business class, but I don't need that much space.
Ted

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12577 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/23/2008 2:58 PM
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>> How about having a few wider than normal seats? I'd gladly pay a premium to get a seat that was even 5 or 6 inches wider. Yeah, I know I can do that by paying a really big premium for business class, but I don't need that much space. <<

Basically, you'd probably have to pay a 50% premium at minimum, because they'd have to turn 3 seats into 2 in order to do this on most planes and a 50% increase would be what is needed to make it revenue-neutral (especially now post-9/11 with almost all planes filled to full capacity due to a reduced number of flights). The aisles are probably about as narrow as FAA safety regulations will allow.

So I guess they need focus groups to determine whether someone would pay $500 for one of these seats instead of (say) $300 in regular coach.

#29

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Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12578 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/23/2008 4:51 PM
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I have ridden in some small planes that have two seats on one side and one on the other. If you took a standard 6 seat across airplane and made part of it a five seater (three on one side and two on the other). It would mean that you would have to increase the cost per seat by 20% to get the same total revenue. I'd pay 20% extra, and the plane would be a little lighter from losing one passenger and his luggage, which would save the airline a little fuel.

Ted

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12579 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/23/2008 6:06 PM
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tedhimself writes,

I have ridden in some small planes that have two seats on one side and one on the other. If you took a standard 6 seat across airplane and made part of it a five seater (three on one side and two on the other). It would mean that you would have to increase the cost per seat by 20% to get the same total revenue. I'd pay 20% extra, and the plane would be a little lighter from losing one passenger and his luggage, which would save the airline a little fuel.

The trend is going in the other direction. A couple of years ago Airbus proposed "stand up seating" to some Asian airlines to reduce costs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/25/business/25seats.html?_r=1...

Airbus has been quietly pitching the standing-room-only option to Asian carriers, though none have agreed to it yet. Passengers in the standing section would be propped against a padded backboard, held in place with a harness, according to experts who have seen a proposal.

But even short of that option, carriers have been slipping another row or two of seats into coach by exploiting stronger, lighter materials developed by seat manufacturers that allow for slimmer seatbacks. The thinner seats theoretically could be used to give passengers more legroom but, in practice, the airlines have been keeping the amount of space between rows the same, to accommodate additional rows.

The result is an additional 6 seats on a typical Boeing 737, for a total of 156, and as many as 12 new seats on a Boeing 757, for a total of 200.

That such things are even being considered is a result of several factors. High fuel costs, for example, are making it difficult for carriers to turn a profit. The new seat technology alone, when used to add more places for passengers, can add millions in additional annual revenue. The new designs also reduce a seat's weight by up to 15 pounds, helping to hold down fuel consumption. A typical seat in economy class now weighs 74 to 82 pounds.

</snip>


intercst

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Author: AcmeFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12580 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/24/2008 8:20 AM
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They don't even have to be fat. People who have broad shoulders encroach on their seatmates' space too.

Then there are the people that wrap their arms/hands all around the seat divider. Often, this puts their arms/hands as much as 2-3 inches into your seat. And they always get upset when you politely ask them to respect your space...

Acme

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Author: AcmeFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12581 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/24/2008 8:29 AM
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How about having a few wider than normal seats? I'd gladly pay a premium to get a seat that was even 5 or 6 inches wider. Yeah, I know I can do that by paying a really big premium for business class, but I don't need that much space.

Your post contradicts itself. You want 5-6" extra width, but you say you don't need as much space as the seats in the front of the plane. First class seats are typically only about 3.5" wider than economy class seats.

To add 5-6 inches, you would have to remove at least one-third of all seats. While some would be willing to pay for this, studies have shown over and over that people generally end up going with the cheaper alternative even if it makes them uncomfortable.

Acme

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Author: putnid Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12582 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/24/2008 3:49 PM
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It's been an interesting discussion and all but, let's face it, modern air travel is just a bus ride at altitude nowadays. I don't see that changing anytime soon, except for those who are willing/able to pay more for creature comforts.

Respectfully yours,

6'5" average-weight guy who's had to fly too often for too many years...

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12588 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/26/2008 2:42 PM
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. . .modern air travel is just a bus ride at altitude nowadays.

Actually, I think you're being generous. Surely bus travel isn't as bad as air travel today. I just got back from a 3 week trip that took me to airports from Phoenix - Newark - Tel Aviv - Kracov - Warsaw - Wroclaw - Warsaw - Amsterdam - Houston - Phoenix. I think I spent about 50 or 60 hours in airplanes and airports being herded into one passenger holding area after another, packing and unpacking for security screens, emptying and filling my pockets, taking my belt off and on, pulling my laptop in and out, juggling my belongings while I proceeded to and from the metal detector, . . . Air travel today is miserable.

Regarding the pay-by-weight, there are practical reasons why this will never happen. You couldn't pay for your ticket until you arrived at the airport and weighed in. Having every passenger step on the scale and hand over their credit card would make air travel even more unbearable. Even if you had passengers step on the scale with their luggage, I think many people would object to this practice as yet another abuse to bear.

I don't know what the solution is, but airlines haven't figured out how to be profitable yet. They've been at it for decades, but they don't make money. I can't see how further abuse of the customer is going to help them, though. People want to travel. Almost all the planes I was on during recent trips were full (the flights within Poland are the exception). So there seems to be plenty of demand. Yet the airlines can't make money. If they can't control other costs, they need to raise ticket prices. I don't see how charging passengers based on their weight helps them make more money unless they charge more (based on the average weight passenger) than they currently charge. Why not simply charge more for the ticket and avoid the awkward required weigh-in process?

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Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12591 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/26/2008 3:54 PM
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I've been on two commercial bus trips lately. Far more comfortable than airplanes. The only problem is the time it takes. Recently took a train trip, also far more comfortable, but using old rickety equipment that was unreliable.

Ted

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12592 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/26/2008 5:10 PM
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Yep, you'll likely pay $250 for the seat and $1/lb of weight of both you and your luggage....on short trips.....and $400 plus $1/lb for you and your luggage....

t.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12595 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/26/2008 5:29 PM
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Yep, you'll likely pay $250 for the seat and $1/lb of weight of both you and your luggage....on short trips.....and $400 plus $1/lb for you and your luggage. - tele


That actually sounds quite fair. So much to hold your seat and then when you check in you step on the scale with you and your luggage and pay so much for total weight.

People like me will just stay home and that would put an end to the grumblings of those who can't stand looking or being near fat people.

Fine by me.

Artie

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12599 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/27/2008 3:06 AM
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I got curious about how much passenger weight really impacted airline costs and here's what I found:

http://www.fxstreet.com/fundamental/analysis-reports/jet-fue...

“. . .Historically, fuel expenses have ranged between 10 and 15 percent of U.S. passenger airline operating costs and currently run somewhere between 25 percent and 40 percent. . .”

So if the cost of flying an aircraft were 100% determined by passenger + luggage weight, then 25% to 40% of the ticket price could be justified by passenger + luggage weight. But even the empty aircraft has weight, so this estimate needs to be reduced by the ratio of total passenger loaded aircraft weight-to-empty aircraft work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737

According to Wikipedia, for a Boeing 737, the ratio of total payload weight to empty aircraft weight is 49% to 60% depending on the specific model of 737.

Assuming the worst case – that the entire difference between payload weight and empty weight is due to passengers and their luggage, the percentage of airline ticket cost that is related to passenger + luggage weight is about 12% to 24%.

Note that airlines typically fly some freight that is not directly tied to passengers so the assumption above is definitely a worst case estimate.

So how much difference in cost does various passenger weights have on a flight?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_weight

average weight US man: 190 lbs
average weight US woman: 155 lbs
average weight: 172.5 lbs

Weight impact difference on airline costs:

100 lb person + luggage – person is 42% under weight (compared to average) -- minimum ~5% of cost
300 lb person + luggage – 73% over weight (compare – maximum ~18% of cost

But none of this analysis increases airline revenue unless the average cost of tickets increase. So the question airlines have to answer is, "Does a ticket price increase that involves weights and measurements of every single passenger and their luggage seem more beneficial than a simple across-the-board increase in ticket cost?" A second, related question is, "Is the cost of enforcing a 5% to 18% cost difference implied by weight worth the cost of enforement:?"

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12600 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/27/2008 3:15 AM
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salaryguru asks,

But none of this analysis increases airline revenue unless the average cost of tickets increase. So the question airlines have to answer is, "Does a ticket price increase that involves weights and measurements of every single passenger and their luggage seem more beneficial than a simple across-the-board increase in ticket cost?" A second, related question is, "Is the cost of enforcing a 5% to 18% cost difference implied by weight worth the cost of enforement:?"

</snip>


I believe the current Administration would answer in the affirmative if the enforcement could be outsourced to Dick Cheney's Halliburton in a lucrative, no-bid contract.

intercst

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12601 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/27/2008 3:35 AM
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<< "Is the cost of enforcing a 5% to 18% cost difference implied by weight worth the cost of enforement:?"

</snip>

I believe the current Administration would answer in the affirmative if the enforcement could be outsourced to Dick Cheney's Halliburton in a lucrative, no-bid contract.

intercst
>>


These are really trivial issues compared with the need for our educated green elites to simply stay home and quit traveling about the world on jet airlines which consumer huge amounts of fuel.

My environmentalist friends have long carped and complained about families buying SUVs, while they use the SUVs of the sky to fly around the world for often trivial reasons. High oil prices have naturally solved the SUV problem, as high prices discourage SUV purchases and use. What we are discussing in this thread is that middle class travel about the world by air is on the brink of facing a similar reality check.

Environmentalists are very soon going to find themselves taking eco vacations close to home instead of in remote areas around the world. Soon they may be thinking globally, but they will be traveling locally for a change.

Whether this reform is advanced per per pound charges, charging per piece of luggage or simply raising ticket prices sharply to reflect higher fuel costs wont really make much difference.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12602 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/27/2008 3:39 AM
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I believe the current Administration would answer in the affirmative if the enforcement could be outsourced to Dick Cheney's Halliburton in a lucrative, no-bid contract.

Of course.

I would actually come in just below cost neutral based on body weight, and my guess is that I would be way below average based on luggage weight. Still, I don't think that this is a good idea. My guess is that this would only make things worse for travelers.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12603 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/27/2008 8:55 AM
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Still, I don't think that this is a good idea. My guess is that this would only make things worse for travelers. - salaryguru

It would discourage fat people like me from traveling. Even more so than it all ready is. What I mean by that is that airline travel is all ready uncomfortable for fat people because we don't fit in the seats and the seat belts don't fit around us properly. There is also not enough leg room and our bodies and appendages bang up against the seat in front of us and don't rest comfortably in the narrow seats provided.

I would be more than happy to forgoe airline travel in order to make it more affordably and comfortably for thinner people. I hate it anyway. Ya'll can have it.

Artie

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Author: pachouly Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12604 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/27/2008 9:22 AM
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It would discourage fat people like me from traveling. Even more so than it all ready is. What I mean by that is that airline travel is all ready uncomfortable for fat people because we don't fit in the seats and the seat belts don't fit around us properly. There is also not enough leg room and our bodies and appendages bang up against the seat in front of us and don't rest comfortably in the narrow seats provided.

Airline seats are uncomfortable enough for me at 5'2" and 145 pounds (so a bit chunky, but not significantly overweight). I always feel bad for people who are larger/taller/broader.

Bigger people don't always take more room though. I used to fly fairly regularly for work and have had the pleasure of sitting next to guys shaped like linebackers who take great care not to encroach on my space (even to the point of avoiding the shared armrest!) and the dissatisfaction of sitting next to skinny little men who can't seem to keep their knees from trying to reach mine. The only thing I have found regularly is that women are generally less likely to encroach upon other people's space..

pachouly

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12605 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/27/2008 9:55 AM
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Bigger people don't always take more room though. I used to fly fairly regularly for work and have had the pleasure of sitting next to guys shaped like linebackers who take great care not to encroach on my space (even to the point of avoiding the shared armrest!) and the dissatisfaction of sitting next to skinny little men who can't seem to keep their knees from trying to reach mine. The only thing I have found regularly is that women are generally less likely to encroach upon other people's space.. - pachouly
-------------------------------------

It's very difficult for me to fold myself up into a small enough ball to where I don't encroach on someone's space when I'm flying. I absolute despise it so I avoid it as much as possible. I used to have to fly at least once a year for work when it was obligatory to go to meetings in different cities around the country. I've been to meetings in Detroit, Cincinatti (drove), Denver, Miami, Chicago, etc. By the way, Chicago is a fun place to spend a week! Our hotel was right there next to the lake, near the Art Museum and Nature Museum. We walked all over the place, ate at German restaraunts, etc.

I haven't flown in years and I have no plans to do any flying in the future. The only thing that might could tempt to me to fly is if I won the Powerball jackpot and then I could fly first class to Hawaii, otherwise I'd just as soon stay home.

Artie

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Author: FCorelli Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12606 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/27/2008 12:26 PM
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Still, I don't think that this is a good idea. My guess is that this would only make things worse for travelers. sg


But if it made it better for the airlines then it passes the cost/benefits test.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12607 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/27/2008 12:37 PM
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<<But if it made it better for the airlines then it passes the cost/benefits test.

>>


Flying is a pretty unattractive form of recreation as it is these days. Making it worse might drive even more people away from this often optional form of consumer spending.




Seattle Pioneer

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12608 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 5/27/2008 1:10 PM
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Flying is a pretty unattractive form of recreation as it is these days. Making it worse might drive even more people away from this often optional form of consumer spending. - Seattle Pioneer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I like road trips a lot. Packing a car with a cooler full of drinks and food, picking out our favorite CD's, getting on the expressway and pointing the nose of our car south toward Florida, that's my idea of fun. I don't even mind the drive all the way to Key West which is almost a thousand miles away, as long as I have enough time. I bet we've made that drive to Panama City, Florida at least ten times.

I've driven to upstate New York four times to visit my friend up there. Utica and Albany, New York. One time we drove to Maine and stayed in Kennenbunkport and went fishing and ate lobsters. That was a fun trip.

Flying is what you do when your in a rush, and at least to me, if I'm in a rush, it's never as much fun.

Artie

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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12760 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 6/6/2008 5:44 PM
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Heh. Anyone read about Derrie Airlines new pay-by-the \-pound ad?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/ap_on_fe_st/philadelphia...

- Derrie-Air has been exposed. Readers of The Philadelphia Inquirer and Philadelphia Daily News opened their papers Friday to see ads for a new airline called Derrie-Air, which purportedly charges passengers by the pound
<snip<
In light blue banners throughout the papers — as well as on their Web site, Philly.com — Derrie-Air cheerily trumpets its policy: The more you weigh, the more you pay. The ads direct readers to the Web site http://www.flyderrie-air.com.
<><><>

cliff

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12761 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 6/6/2008 5:54 PM
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>> - Derrie-Air has been exposed. Readers of The Philadelphia Inquirer and Philadelphia Daily News opened their papers Friday to see ads for a new airline called Derrie-Air, which purportedly charges passengers by the pound <<

A waist is a terrible thing to mind.

#29

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Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12763 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 6/6/2008 6:09 PM
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"The more you weigh, the more you pay. "

Do they serve meals on their flights?

Howie52

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12764 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 6/6/2008 6:46 PM
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"Do they serve meals on their flights?"

No, but they have lots of water fountains and 'free drinks' (soft drinks and lemondae)...right before the weigh in station...and no rest rooms until you get past the weigh in station.....

<g>

t.

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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12765 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 6/6/2008 7:08 PM
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Did anyone go to their web site?

http://flyderrie-air.com/

cliff

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12766 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 6/6/2008 8:29 PM
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Me and my golf clubs flew cross-country last month for about 40 cents/lb. Derrie-aire's prices seem high.

intercst

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Author: PolymerMom Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12769 of 60063
Subject: Re: Poll: Pay-by-pound passenger airline travel? Date: 6/6/2008 10:38 PM
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A waist is a terrible thing to mind.


LOL!

On top of that the website was a hoax<G>.

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