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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1947226  
Subject: Poll: What's going to "Tank" the econo Date: 3/4/2013 8:30 AM
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There's alot of forces out there that can cause harm to our economy, which do you think it will be. (I know there's more)

And "All of the above is a cop-out".
$45 Billion-ish in Gov't Spending
$175 Billion-ish in new taxes
$4+ Gasoline and rising
New Healthcare Regulations
European Union elections and political chaos.

Click here to see results so far.

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Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863358 of 1947226
Subject: Re: Poll: What's going to "Tank" the e Date: 3/4/2013 12:14 PM
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Polls depend on words of clear and consistent meaning. Your question says "cause harm" to the economy. Your subject says "Tank" the economy.

Which is it? Because if tank is the operative word, then you should have included a choice of "None of the above."

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863373 of 1947226
Subject: Re: Poll: What's going to "Tank" the e Date: 3/4/2013 1:01 PM
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You seem to think nothing will tank the economy. I think the definition below is pretty right on.


11. informal ( intr ) to fail, esp commercially
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tank?s=t


The economy is going to fail due to one of these factors. My opinion is the new taxes are going to do it...others believe it's the cuts. Of course it could be the chaos in Europe.

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863432 of 1947226
Subject: Re: Poll: What's going to "Tank" the e Date: 3/4/2013 5:35 PM
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I don;t think any of the above will "Tank" our economy. I think all are now contributing to it's sluggishness. The chaos in Europe has the propensity to do the most harm in a short period.

Since 2008, I've believed the biggest uphill battle the economy still faces is the languishing middle class. This is where your power comes from in this economy, and this is where the building blocks form the upper middle class and beyond.

Without the education, jobs, whatever, you can only go so far without them. The biggest gap I see in lifestyles and future financial condition now, is between the middle class and the "well off". Not the super wealthy, but those that have withstood the financial hits, and had the capital to move on. Not necessarily an income class, but a wealth class.

Those that have sound retirement plans, assets paid off or mostly paid off. In other words, those that didn't listen to anyone other than their grandparents last decade ;) LOL

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Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863433 of 1947226
Subject: Re: Poll: What's going to "Tank" the e Date: 3/4/2013 6:04 PM
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It depends on what you mean by "tank".

Perhaps you mean, "What will bring on the next recession?"

Since recessions are inevitable, it is a little silly to blame them on any one thing.

But perhaps you mean, "What will bring on the next crash like 1929 or 2008?"

In that case the answer is "None of the above".

The next crash will come because of the popping of the fed bond bubble. And it won't take eight decades.

Peter

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863434 of 1947226
Subject: Re: Poll: What's going to "Tank" the e Date: 3/4/2013 6:07 PM
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Without the education, jobs, whatever, you can only go so far without them. The biggest gap I see in lifestyles and future financial condition now, is between the middle class and the "well off". Not the super wealthy, but those that have withstood the financial hits, and had the capital to move on. Not necessarily an income class, but a wealth class.

Those that have sound retirement plans, assets paid off or mostly paid off. In other words, those that didn't listen to anyone other than their grandparents last decade ;) LOL
______________________________

I think your prescription is largely wrong.

We need increasing productivity. Nothing we have done is aiding us to move in that direction.

We need more risk takers, and more reward for the successful. This will lead to people being more productive through the innovation those people bring to the table.

Things like cheap energy, low taxes and a sane and very stable regulatory environment are all far more important than education the only thing you mention by name. In fact all the money spent on 'more' education will harm rather than help those things. Though education is very important on a national level it is not nearly as important as the other issues. Education is not the key to innovation, and innovation is the key to a growing middle class in that it creates entrepreneurial opportunity.

You can not educate your way to success. You can spend your way out of it though.

We are incredibly stupid with our education spending. The misapplication is awe inspiring, the lack of innovation among our 'brightest' leaves a system one of the few in existence that barely evolves.

You have to create opportunity and people will grab for it, they will pull others up because they need others to get more. This entire idea that you can push a society through education and central decisions is absurd and the manna of idiots and will hold us back as long as the mindset holds power.

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863495 of 1947226
Subject: Re: Poll: What's going to "Tank" the e Date: 3/5/2013 8:15 AM
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I think your prescription is largely wrong.

We need increasing productivity. Nothing we have done is aiding us to move in that direction.

We need more risk takers, and more reward for the successful. This will lead to people being more productive through the innovation those people bring to the table.
________________

It wasn't a prescription, it was a partial look at what's lacking. Many of the tremendous growth companies we've seen came from middle class people. Hard-working people that had either the skills or education or combination of both to see something better. Build something better.

Innovation comes from people, no doubt. It also comes from new creativity, inventions, advances in science and engineering. You can have all the cheap energy and stable regulations you want, but that creates more opportunities, not ideas.

We're not disagreeing, but you're more pointing to absolutes and rankings. We need it All. Without the Middle Class, the country will always limp along. You can have a star quarterback, but if your receivers suck, so will your team.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1863496 of 1947226
Subject: Re: Poll: What's going to "Tank" the e Date: 3/5/2013 8:30 AM
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We're not disagreeing, but you're more pointing to absolutes and rankings. We need it All. Without the Middle Class, the country will always limp along. You can have a star quarterback, but if your receivers suck, so will your team.
_________________________________

But we have receivers. They just need someone to blow the friggin whistle to start the damn game.

RIght now? They are all in the locker room, obeying the taping up requirements and when they get on the field, they have to obey the do not run because we have seen pulled hamstring requirement and they can not more fast because of the fullbody armor

The good receivers? They can not catch the ball because their hand are in protective cages to avoid possible holding penalties

But with all that the quarterback won't throw the ball anyway, because he does not want to get blamed for interceptions.

Bottom line is I do not think we know if we have good receivers or not. Another thing, it is like magic after a little while together good quarterbacks magically have improving receivers and a pipeline of new receivers. It happens time after time

Now if you try to stock up receivers? Unless you have a decent quarterback it really does not help. All you get is underutilized receivers. That is where we are now, we have a whole lot of underutilized recievers, waiting for a game plan that opens up the offense and that game plan, just takes a quarterback willing to take some risks with the ball.

When that happens? The All Star receivers will emerge and every receiver on the team all of a sudden will seem to be running better patterns, and making sharper cuts.

The middle class does feed all. We both agree, I am with you there is little difference in out overall thoughts. However, I think it takes a system that over rewards risk, as risk is the driver not ability, unmet potential is as big a group as is imaginable, it takes something to bring out that potential someone to give those people focus. It is not education that will do that, it is not government seed capital showing that clean energy is the way to get rich -- it is people taking risk with their own money, it is the boom and bust of that and the willingness of the reward being great enough that people lay it all on the line.

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