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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 444956  
Subject: post office Date: 2/21/2013 12:35 PM
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Received in email. I agree with this. Even though email has replaced the "letter", I think the post office is important. I use email. Yes, it's very convenient. And I save the almost-4 bits to send a letter. And it's faster. No denying it.

But I just received an RO filter from costco.com. Can't email that. Arizona Highways or National Geographic magazines just wouldn't be the same on my phone (I ain't takin' my desktop into the bathroom!). If I want to contact more "formally", I use actual paper and a stamp (e.g. writing to my representative about a personal problem (e.g. INS) as opposed to providing general input on some issue of national import). 1poorkid is receiving college brochures. She also gets stickers for some activity she does, and free samples of things. Can't email most of that. Before my re-fi my lender (at that time) did not accept electronic payments, so I had to mail a mortgage check every month.

It's just dozens of little things that we probably don't notice. Yes, electronic transmission has made a lot of it superfluous. But not all of it, and likely it never will be all of it. I think it is in the best interest of the country for the government to keep the post office going, even if it does lose money (some of which can be fixed by not requiring that it fund its pension plan almost a century ahead of time).

Subject: The Post Office isn't broke -- it's being robbed.

Dear Friend,

The United States Postal Service has just announced that due to budget shortfalls, mail will no longer be delivered on Saturdays starting in August.

It's true the post office faces financial challenges. But the financial problems are in large part a direct result of an onerous and ill-considered 2006 law called the "Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act" (PAEA) that mandates pre-funding the postal service retiree health care and pension benefits for 75 years — something that no other government agency or private company is forced to do.

The vast majority — 85% — of the budget red ink comes from this pre-funding mandate. The PAEA was created by Republicans intent on goal: Killing a government service for the sake of proving that government can't work.

Tell Congress: Don't let Republicans kill the Post Office.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/usps_sat_delivery/?r_by=...
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Author: BuyLower Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418320 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 1:11 PM
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There are other ways to get the things you mention from point A to point B. It is convenient but is it necessary for the gov't to be providing this service if it can't at least break even?

I agree the pre-funding mandate seems excessive but if that's still only 85% of the red ink, it's still short 15%.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418321 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 1:23 PM
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It is convenient but is it necessary for the gov't to be providing this service if it can't at least break even?

Absolutely. Government isn't about turning a profit, or even breaking even. It's about providing services to the people. It's not a business. Yes, we pay for it. We know that.

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Author: Wessex99 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418322 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 1:38 PM
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1poorguy, although your point that we want services, not for government to make a profit, I'm sorry to see you repeat the right-wing meme that we pay for the Post Office. With possibly very limited exceptions, the Post Office is not funded by taxpayer money.

Wessex

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Author: rmhj Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418323 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 2:55 PM
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BuyLower: There are other ways to get the things you mention from point A to point B. It is convenient but is it necessary for the gov't to be providing this service if it can't at least break even?

I agree the pre-funding mandate seems excessive but if that's still only 85% of the red ink, it's still short 15%.


The Post Office was specifically created in the constitution. It was considered at that time to be critical to the success of the country. The constitution didn't say anything about 'if it makes a profit'.

The Post Office serves essentially everyone. It serves, particularly, rural areas that cost more to service than they bring in in revenue. That service is essential for many government functions -- taxes, official notices, social security checks, &c, and a variety of government operations are predicated on mail service, and important for rural citizens. Many of those functions would be considerably more expensive without a universal postal service.

There is competition -- UPS, FedEx, DHL, and other services also deliver packages. But they do so only in metropolitan areas and areas with fairly high population densities. None of them is willing to step up and serve all of the U.S..

I think there are reasonable choices here. We could insist that other carriers serve rural areas. (Or we could insist that they remit surcharges for refusing to do so.) We could beat congress around the head and shoulders and allow the post office to set its own rates. We could insist that congress make the USPS's bookkeeping sane.

But what we're actually seeing is Republicanism writ large: privatizing the profitable and socializing the losses. And it's working about as well as other things in similar straits, which is to say, it's seriously broken.

rj

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418324 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 3:19 PM
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BuyLower, you really need to re-read this:

It's true the post office faces financial challenges. But the financial problems are in large part a direct result of an onerous and ill-considered 2006 law called the "Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act" (PAEA) that mandates pre-funding the postal service retiree health care and pension benefits for 75 years — something that no other government agency or private company is forced to do.

The vast majority — 85% — of the budget red ink comes from this pre-funding mandate. The PAEA was created by Republicans intent on goal: Killing a government service for the sake of proving that government can't work.


Republicans have manufactured a financial problem within the USPS aimed at driving it out of business.

P.S. You can bet every federal legislator will have his/her hand out for an increase in office budgets if the USPS disappears and their franking privilege disappears.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418327 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 3:51 PM
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...the Post Office is not funded by taxpayer money.

I know. But it should be. That was my point. It is not about profit or "paying for itself". It's about a service we, the people, should have. And, yes, we should subsidize it through taxes as much as it needs beyond the income it generates on its own.

Just like rail, buses, etc.

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Author: CairnDad Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418330 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 4:52 PM
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The Post Office is specifically provided for in the Constitution. Conservatives should be for it, not against it.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418331 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 5:01 PM
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The Post Office is specifically provided for in the Constitution. Conservatives should be for it, not against it.

But it competes with FedEx, UPS, and other "market" entities. Government competing with private sector is bad and bad to most conservatives. That those entities have very sparse service in rural areas (as pointed out by another poster) is just the market at work.

They only like the Constitution when it allows them to have as many guns as they want, or declare some federal program illegal (often citing the 10th Amendment, by inference if not explicitly).

Otherwise it's just some pieces of parchment to them.

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Author: Wessex99 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418336 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 7:15 PM
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Thanks for clarifying what you meant, and I agree.

I must admit, though, I would never have got that interpretation from the portion of your original post that stated "Yes, we pay for it." Perhaps you meant we pay for it by buying the Post Office's products and services.

Wessex

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Author: BuyLower Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418339 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 10:12 PM
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Did not realize it was provided for in the Constitution but I don't believe the Constitution should never be changed. This is not part of the Bill of Rights so let's not equate this with the whole gun debate.

The question is, given the state of things right now, does it make sense to have the USPS? I don't live in a rural area, so I just assumed that FedEx and their ilk serviced the whole US. If this isn't true than that is a great argument why it's still a necessity.

Regarding the PAEA, I found this in Wikipedia:

The PAEA stipulates that the USPS is to make payments of $5.4 - $5.8 billion into the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund, each year, from 2007 to 2016 in order to prefund 75 years of estimated costs. This requirement also explicitly stated that the USPS was to stop using its savings to reduce postal debt, which was stipulated in Postal Civil Service Retirement System Funding Reform Act of 2003.[4] This is in addition to deductions from pay for federal contribution to social services.[5] This pre-funding method is unique to the USPS. In June 2011, the USPS had to suspend its weekly payment of 115 million into the fund because it had reached 8 billion dollars in debt and the retirement plan had a surplus of 6.9 billion dollars.[6] The schedule rate of payment has been changed and the USPS is currently expected to make a payment of 5.6 billion no later than September 30, 2011

While it may be unusual that the USPS has to prefund to that extent, is the argument that prefunding their liabilities is a bad idea or is it the amount of time/funding?

One question though, if USPS is 8 billion in debt, where is that money coming from if it's not the taxpayers?

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418341 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/21/2013 11:08 PM
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but I don't believe the Constitution should never be changed. This is not part of the Bill of Rights so let's not equate this with the whole gun debate.

Actually, the "post office" is part of the original Constitution. The "Bill of Rights" came later. (They are, obviously, the first 10 amendments to the Constitution.) Technically speaking, that makes the "Post Office" more in sync with the original writers who thought it important enough to include from the beginning, not less.

Yes, sure, if you want to change the Constitution, change it. But don't pretend this particular clause doesn't exist because it does.

The question is, given the state of things right now, does it make sense to have the USPS? I don't live in a rural area, so I just assumed that FedEx and their ilk serviced the whole US.

FedEx, UPS and others rely on the USPS to deliver "last mile" packages to rural areas. That's the problem with private services, they will happily "cream skim" the dense, urban and suburban (read: easy to deliver) areas, and ignore those which are unprofitable. We had the same problem with "electricity" until we mandated rural electrification, and we likewise had the same problem with telephone service until AT&T was required to provide rural service there, as well. It goes without saying that the rural customers do not pay 100% of the freight for themselves (same with rural airports.)

While it may be unusual that the USPS has to prefund to that extent, is the argument that prefunding their liabilities is a bad idea or is it the amount of time/funding?

No other agency or private business is required to do this. If it is a good idea, then everyone should do it. If it is not, then the USPS should not. (They are being required to pre-fund 75 years worth of obligations within a 10 year window.)

One question though, if USPS is 8 billion in debt, where is that money coming from if it's not the taxpayers?

The USPS has loans out from the government; some in Congress are advocating a default on those obligations and an exit from the "private corporation" status thrust upon it, since Congress still controls its every destiny, from the price of stamps to what offices it is allowed to close or consolidate. The Congress (led by Republicans in this case) has given it all the responsibilities of private industry - and then some - but none of the prerogatives of a private company to determine how best to serve customers.

It's a clusterflock, engineered by your friends in Congress.
 


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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418343 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 12:46 AM
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Government competing with private sector is bad and bad to most conservatives.



Disband our armed forces and go with mercenaries.

Eliminate police for security guards.

Maybe you want to think this one out some more?

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418344 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 12:50 AM
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While it may be unusual that the USPS has to prefund to that extent, is the argument that prefunding their liabilities is a bad idea or is it the amount of time/funding?

It "may be unusual" in the same sense that a unicorn is. Articles I've read have said that NOBODY does this. Nobody -- not elsewhere in the federal gov't or industry.

The rest of your statement dissolves from there....

One question though, if USPS is 8 billion in debt, where is that money coming from if it's not the taxpayers?

If you'd read the damn posts which precede yours, you'd find out -- it's mostly a "debt" manufactured by the outrageous prefunding liability which Republican'ts forced on the USPS.

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418345 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 12:56 AM
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If you'd read the damn posts which precede yours, you'd find out -- it's mostly a "debt" manufactured by the outrageous prefunding liability which Republican'ts forced on the USPS.

---------------------------


Can there be any doubt left that the Republicans are doing everything they can possibly do to destroy this country? And they are succeeding, too. The only question I have is Why?

AM

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Author: NailThatJello Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418346 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 2:17 AM
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Can there be any doubt left that the Republicans are doing everything they can possibly do to destroy this country? And they are succeeding, too. The only question I have is Why?

Because they believe that we want what they have. They hate us and fear us for that because they think we a-gonna use guv'mt to take theirs from them.

Whenever analyzing Republican motives, start with greed and fear. That'll usually lead you to the answer quickest.

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Author: BuyLower Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418347 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 9:51 AM
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Yes, sure, if you want to change the Constitution, change it. But don't pretend this particular clause doesn't exist because it does.

Yikes, who pi$$ed in your cheerios? I never said anything about it not existing.

No other agency or private business is required to do this. If it is a good idea, then everyone should do it.

That is my point as well. Perhaps everyone should do it. How many private businesses have offered pensions and benefits after retirement and wind up having to cut those because guess what, they don't have the money. How many private businesses even offer this to their workers anymore?

The USPS has loans out from the government; some in Congress are advocating a default on those obligations and an exit from the "private corporation" status thrust upon it, since Congress still controls its every destiny, from the price of stamps to what offices it is allowed to close or consolidate. The Congress (led by Republicans in this case) has given it all the responsibilities of private industry - and then some - but none of the prerogatives of a private company to determine how best to serve customers.

Nor should they have ALL the prerogatives of a private company, since they have a monopoly and don't need to turn a profit to remain in business. However, I would not advocate a default on those obligations since the 75 years worth over 10 years seems to be a tall order that was created to make it an issue. I think the concept sounds good but the execution of the bill, as usual, was as you say a clusterflock.

It's a clusterflock, engineered by your friends in Congress.

I can assure you, none of them are friends of mine. I wouldn't trust the whole lot as far as I could throw them.

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Author: BuyLower Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418348 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 9:57 AM
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Can there be any doubt left that the politicians are doing everything they can possibly do to destroy this country? And they are succeeding, too. The only question I have is Why?

Fixed that for ya.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418351 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 10:20 AM
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Maybe you want to think this one out some more?

Talk to the neo-cons. I think their ideas here are idiotic, and will tell them so every time they bring it up.

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Author: rmhj Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418352 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 10:22 AM
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AM: Can there be any doubt left that the Republicans are doing everything they can possibly do to destroy this country? And they are succeeding, too. The only question I have is Why?

An inordinate belief in their own intrinsic moral and intellectual superiority, a sumptuous banquet of historical ignorance, a thin gruel of education, and lots of deep-red eyewear?

rj

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Author: rmhj Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418353 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 10:27 AM
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BuyLower: That is my point as well. Perhaps everyone should do it. How many private businesses have offered pensions and benefits after retirement and wind up having to cut those because guess what, they don't have the money. How many private businesses even offer this to their workers anymore?

No, that was a different law, passed by congress back in the '80s. That allowed companies to underfund their pension plans on the idea that they might later patch things up during bumper years. Instead, it's a nice way to find themselves technically bankrupt (owing $$$$ to the pension fund), then allowing them to declare bankruptcy and dumping the obligations.

It was this that turned "bankruptcy for profit" into a cottage industry for the airlines and many other industries, helped kill off unions, and pretty much did in pensions as well.

rj

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418354 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 10:28 AM
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Whenever analyzing Republican motives, start with greed and fear. That'll usually lead you to the answer quickest.

While that sounds like just another leftie taking a jab at righties, I believe you are 100% correct. Recently someone linked to a study that was done in which it was determined that conservatives are in fact more fearful overall. Fearful for their safety, for their "stuff", etc.

So you aren't just being hyperbolic there. There is science to back your assertion.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418355 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 10:41 AM
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~Government competing with private sector is bad and bad to most conservatives. ~

Disband our armed forces and go with mercenaries.

Eliminate police for security guards.

Maybe you want to think this one out some more?


Last week some rightwingnuts were screaming that the US military should have "saved" the passengers on the Carnival Triumph, rather than having them endure out the tow by private contractors.

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Author: NailThatJello Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418358 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 10:58 AM
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Whenever analyzing Republican motives, start with greed and fear. That'll usually lead you to the answer quickest.

You aren't just being hyperbolic there. There is science to back your assertion.

I like the way Carl Sagan explained it. While he didnt name Republicans, he reviewed brain evolution and noted that we have three layers: the innermost "reptilian" layer where the base instincts lie (eat, sleep, screw, dont think, just repeat); the middle "mammalian" layer, where we picked up fear, hate, superstition and following the crowd, all useful for strength-in-numbers survival including religion; and the top primate layer, where we got the ability to do abstract reasoning and other intellectual tasks, which we needed to figure out how to live out on the savannas.

All three layers are still there, and each human thought is a power struggle amongst them. People differ in their inherent brain chemistry and which layers are the most dominant. Those who are dominantly reptilian or mammalian, tend to become Republicans. Those whose cortex dominates, tend to become Democrats.

Ok the latter part is my hypothesis because it conforms to Occam's Razor - the simplest good fit between what we see in real life every day, and what we know about how our brains evolved.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418360 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 11:24 AM
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"1poorguy, although your point that we want services, not for government to make a profit, I'm sorry to see you repeat the right-wing meme that we pay for the Post Office. With possibly very limited exceptions, the Post Office is not funded by taxpayer money."


But the Post office is micro managed by the government.

And politicians.


There are loads of reasons why you can give up Saturday delivery, including half the folks aren't even home on Saturday to get the mail.

Ya know...way back when, there was TWICE A DAY delivery in most cities. Wow.....morning and afternoon.....well, that went the way of the horse cart.

You really think you need six days a week vs five day a week delivery of your magazines and bills? Have you actually gotten a letter from a friend in the mail in the last six months, or a post card from a vacation destination? Gimme a break....and if it arrived on Monday instead of Saturday, would your world collapse?

Most businesses don't even have anyone to process the mail on Saturday. They are SHUT DOWN. People work five days a week in business.

SO what's the beef about not delivering mail on Saturdays, other than 5000 or 10,000 extra post office jobs?

That's the only reason they are having problems stopping Saturday delivery!...>UNIONS....UNIONS>.....UNIONS.....and they votes they buy in Congress to stop the 'not a government' function from actually doing the right thing!...

There are also loads of teeny weeny post offices that should be shut down. The town hardware store shut down when Walmart moved in 15 miles away. FOlks drive to the Walmart for groceries..the town store shut down..... you can order your postage on line.....and get it delivered to your door or use Stamps Dot Com to mail stuff out.

Heck, why should we fund a company frozen by 1930 rules - forced by UNIONS - ???????

IT's a business. Run it as a business.

I"m tired of getting stuck in the future.....they aren't putting money into the pension plan for a million retired workers and the tax payers are going to have to fork up billions and tens of billions to fund their gold plated pensions and benefits, just like GM...which was an auto union bailout and only that.


I'm sick of the unions ripping off the taxpayers....


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418361 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 11:27 AM
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"The vast majority — 85% — of the budget red ink comes from this pre-funding mandate. The PAEA was created by Republicans intent on goal: Killing a government service for the sake of proving that government can't work."


It's true


The government has 80 to 100 trillion in pension and SS and Medicare costs it has not funded.

Any business trying to do that would have all its executives in jail.


AS you folks always want to say...all government union employees are reaping fat future pension and health benefits and current above market salaries...and 'socializing' the trillions of unfunded pension and health care benefits they are 'entitled to' by union contracts.



t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418363 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 11:34 AM
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"FedEx, UPS and others rely on the USPS to deliver "last mile" packages to rural areas. That's the problem with private services, they will happily "cream skim" the dense, urban and suburban (read: easy to deliver) areas, and ignore those which are unprofitable."

That's called wise business decisions. Dominoes pizza doesn't deliver to Podunk, either.

-------




" We had the same problem with "electricity" until we mandated rural electrification, "


Yeah...and the government borrowed, and everyone gets to pay to serve rural America......who get to buy the power at the same cheap rates.


-----------


"and we likewise had the same problem with telephone service until AT&T was required to provide rural service there, as well. "


heh heh...AT&T was a regulated monopoly. They just raised rates on everyone to pay for the extra high cost of serving rural America.

I'm amazed that you actually think that 'AT&T' paid. It was 'required' as a regulated monopoly to do it, and of course, immediately applied for rate hikes everywhere else to cover the cost and earn the 'regulated' rate of return for its investors.

DuH!...somehow you folks think there is a magic money fairy, or that 'corporations' magically fund things like this without passing along the cost to everyone else!

--------




"It goes without saying that the rural customers do not pay 100% of the freight for themselves (same with rural airports.)"

Yep, Hayseedians...you get to pay for your country bunmpkins...you pay higher taxes, higher electric rates, higher telephone rates and surcharges, higher cellphone bills (25% of it is taxes and fees for just such lifeline programs with 44% waste and abuse).....

When the politicians tell you how great their new plans are....just remember, it is YOU who will be funding them!.......on your utility bills, your real estate taxes, your state taxes and of course, all the fed taxes starting with income taxes, and surchargesand 'fees' on most of your utilities.....

Just look at your next smart phone bill...and the 25% total taxes and fees on it!....


t.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418365 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 11:37 AM
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Those who are dominantly reptilian...tend to become Republicans.

So Republicans are snakes...

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Author: SpeedBump13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418369 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 12:08 PM
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I live in a city of 7 million people. I like the Post Office, but if Republicans manage to kill it, I would be affected very little. I can't remember the last time I mailed anything but a bill payment, and incoming mail is 95% junk. The people who would be hurt the most are the Republican base, people living in areas that are very far from UPS and Fedex bases. They need to begin to understand that people who live in isolated areas and demand government services are as much a drag on society as the urban poor.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 12:24 PM
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So Republicans are snakes...

Well, possibly, although one could equally trace their evolutionary roots to crocodiles, toads, salamanders, lizards, frogs and geckos... you'd need a detailed DNA fingerprinting study to be certain.

The less savory consequence of Sagan's brain theory is that since Republicanism has a biological basis, we can't blame them for their behavior. It's not their fault. They were born slightly sub-human. And thus they shall remain our burden, forever.

Unless we castrate them. Maybe if we can get them reclassified as pets... Hmmm...

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 12:37 PM
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IT's a business. Run it as a business.

Tell it to Congress. Would any business choose to pre-fund it's retirement obligations to the extent that Congress has mandated for the USPS? Especially while putting their ability to generate revenue in a stranglehold?

Nothing about how Congress runs the USPS makes sense in the context of "running it like a business".

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 12:42 PM
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There are also loads of teeny weeny post offices that should be shut down. The town hardware store shut down when Walmart moved in 15 miles away. FOlks drive to the Walmart for groceries..the town store shut down..... you can order your postage on line.....and get it delivered to your door or use Stamps Dot Com to mail stuff out.

Question: If you live in one of those rinky-dink towns that FedEx and UPS won't touch with a forty-foot pole and order your stamps online, HOW THE F*** ARE THEY GOING TO GET DELIVERED TO YOUR DOOR without those "teeny weeny" post offices?

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 12:53 PM
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Can there be any doubt left that the Republicans are doing everything they can possibly do to destroy this country? And they are succeeding, too. The only question I have is Why?


Because they're making money.

6

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 1:09 PM
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Because they're making money.

6

--------


Only the fat cats are making money.
The redneck religious are poor as ever - and they keep electing those bozos to office - and proud to do it. Worse, these are the very people who claim to love this country so much - yet they are destroying it. It's a real puzzle.

AM

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Author: LB0507 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418375 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 1:14 PM
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Can there be any doubt left that the Republicans are doing everything they can possibly do to destroy this country? And they are succeeding, too. The only question I have is Why?

My take is that Republicans at heart are neo-feudalists, longing for the good old days of the lord of the manor and the compliant serfs. The prime example in American history was (surprise, surprise) the Southern plantation system and slavery. The concepts of equality, common good, etc. are really anathema to these people as is the Federal guvment which exists to insure these things. Therefore it must be destroyed.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 2:18 PM
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ii
The people who would be hurt the most are the Republican base, people living in areas that are very far from UPS and Fedex bases. They need to begin to understand that people who live in isolated areas and demand government services are as much a drag on society as the urban poor.
m
but they're not a drag as long as they vote Republican

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 2:22 PM
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take is that Republicans at heart are neo-feudalists, longing for the good old days of the lord of the manor and the compliant serfs. The prime example in American history was (surprise, surprise) the Southern plantation system and slavery


but the Golden Age of early industrialists pretty close second

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 2:37 PM
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NTJ: Unless we castrate them. Maybe if we can get them reclassified as pets... Hmmm...

Pretty hazardous for pets.

But they seem to want to put themselves in a zoo, which seems both convenient and appropriate. The displays will need bullet-proof glass and specially trained keepers, I think, but many would be happy to move in if only they're allowed weapons.

rj

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 2:45 PM
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greyling: There are also loads of teeny weeny post offices that should be shut down. The town hardware store shut down when Walmart moved in 15 miles away. FOlks drive to the Walmart for groceries..the town store shut down..... you can order your postage on line.....and get it delivered to your door or use Stamps Dot Com to mail stuff out.

MV: Question: If you live in one of those rinky-dink towns that FedEx and UPS won't touch with a forty-foot pole and order your stamps online, HOW THE F*** ARE THEY GOING TO GET DELIVERED TO YOUR DOOR without those "teeny weeny" post offices?

The stupidity is strong in this greyling. It needs to stop chugging the mouthwash.

rj

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418380 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 2:47 PM
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The stupidity is strong in this greyling


but famous for its prevarication



NTTAWWT !

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 2:52 PM
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Question: If you live in one of those rinky-dink towns that FedEx and UPS won't touch with a forty-foot pole and order your stamps online, HOW THE F*** ARE THEY GOING TO GET DELIVERED TO YOUR DOOR without those "teeny weeny" post offices?

If you choose to live a hundred miles from the nearest post office, why not wait until you drive into the nearest post office and pick up your mail ?

Perhaps twice a week runs on rural routes would be reasonable?

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 3:10 PM
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The redneck religious are poor as ever - and they keep electing those bozos to office - and proud to do it. Worse, these are the very people who claim to love this country so much - yet they are destroying it. It's a real puzzle.

They just have nothing to do besides sit on the porch of their double-wide hating everyone who isn't them.

6

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 3:51 PM
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Did not realize it was provided for in the Constitution but I don't believe the Constitution should never be changed. This is not part of the Bill of Rights

You're in complete disagreement with the founding fathers. They included the amendment process so the constitution could be changed as needed.

And the Bill of Rights is a series of 10 changes to the constitution. What do you think an amendment is???

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 3:52 PM
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But the Post office is micro managed by the government.

And politicians.


There are loads of reasons why you can give up Saturday delivery, including half the folks aren't even home on Saturday to get the mail.

Ya know...way back when, there was TWICE A DAY delivery in most cities. Wow.....morning and afternoon.....well, that went the way of the horse cart.

You really think you need six days a week vs five day a week delivery of your magazines and bills? Have you actually gotten a letter from a friend in the mail in the last six months, or a post card from a vacation destination? Gimme a break....and if it arrived on Monday instead of Saturday, would your world collapse?

Most businesses don't even have anyone to process the mail on Saturday. They are SHUT DOWN. People work five days a week in business.

SO what's the beef about not delivering mail on Saturdays, other than 5000 or 10,000 extra post office jobs?


That's the whole point! The post office *wants* to stop delivering mail on Saturday. They want to do a lot of things differently. And a year and half ago the Senate passed a bill ending Saturday delivery and other needed reforms, but that idiot John Boehner blocked it in the House.

So here we are a year and half later and the problem has just gotten worse, as you'd expect. In the meantime, Boehner is currently on tour talking about how the government is wasting money on "cigarette smoking machines" but he can't lift his damn pinky to actually reduce spending in a smart way.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 3:56 PM
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Those who are dominantly reptilian...tend to become Republicans.

So Republicans are snakes...


I wonder how many of them are parseltongues... Voldemort 2016!

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 6:06 PM
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I live in a city of 7 million people. I like the Post Office, but if Republicans manage to kill it, I would be affected very little. I can't remember the last time I mailed anything but a bill payment, and incoming mail is 95% junk.


I mail a fair amount of stuff, and receive a fair amount of stuff via mail, including checks and things I order online. Not to mention Netflix. One less day a week of DVD delivery is going to suck. That just means I'm going to have to spend money on wi-fi or however it works for streaming.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 6:08 PM
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The stupidity is strong in this greyling. It needs to stop chugging the mouthwash.


Hell, Josh even created a new doppel for this thread.

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Author: alchook Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418399 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 6:42 PM
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I’ve often wondered if the post office could help itself by adopting a more modern approach to marketing itself.

A lot of companies have done well by sponsoring or somehow associating themselves with athletic endeavors, which happen to be very popular in the USA and provide inspiration for the youth of America.

Maybe the postal service should think along those lines.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 6:49 PM
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I assume you mean something like cycling?

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 6:49 PM
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A lot of companies have done well by sponsoring or somehow associating themselves with athletic endeavors, which happen to be very popular in the USA and provide inspiration for the youth of America.

Maybe the postal service should think along those lines.


The USPS did sponsor a lot of athletic efforts in the past.

Most famously, Lance Armstrong was supposed to return his $$$.

google: usps sport sponsorship.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 6:55 PM
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I am pretty certain al knew that and was having fun with his post.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 7:27 PM
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I’ve often wondered if the post office could help itself by adopting a more modern approach to marketing itself.

A lot of companies have done well by sponsoring or somehow associating themselves with athletic endeavors, which happen to be very popular in the USA and provide inspiration for the youth of America.

Maybe the postal service should think along those lines.


Heh.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 7:28 PM
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Hey! The USPS sponsors bike racing. Now, I feel like mailing some stuff!

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Author: SpeedBump13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 418406 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 7:42 PM
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The stupidity is strong in this greyling. It needs to stop chugging the mouthwash.


Hell, Josh even created a new doppel for this thread.


It isn't a new dopple. It was already greyed out whether it is the Good Christian or not.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 7:52 PM
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The Post Office could basically charge me anything to throw out my junk mail instead of putting it in my mailbox, and I'd pay it with a grateful smile.

6

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 8:07 PM
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I assume you mean something like cycling?

That might work in France or something. I was thinking more along the lines of a real sport, like Ultimate Fighting or Female Full Contact Karate.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/22/2013 9:23 PM
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I'm a bit surprised that no one has touched on this part of the issue. The racist wing of the neo-wingnut Republican Tea Party has always hated the PO because it was/is a rare avenue to a middle class life for minorities. They have simply learned to posture their veiled racism in a plausible fiscal high road stance.

Black men accounted for 11.2 percent of career postal workers in 2002, compared with 5 percent for the overall workforce, according to a 2003 study by the U.S. General Accounting Office. And 10.1 percent of career postal workers are black women, who on average made up 6.3 percent of the overall workforce, according to the study. Blacks still make up 21 percent of the Postal Service's workforce, a spokesman said Monday.

Blacks and other minorities have particularly thrived in the upper ranks of postal employees.

As of 2008, a third of the Postal Service's senior executives were minorities, compared with 16 percent governmentwide, according to congressional testimony by the service's Office of Inspector General.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-12-06/business/ct-bi...


proton

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/23/2013 12:07 PM
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You're in complete disagreement with the founding fathers. They included the amendment process so the constitution could be changed as needed.

And the Bill of Rights is a series of 10 changes to the constitution. What do you think an amendment is???


LOL! Read my sentence again and note the double negative. We are in complete agreement. You, I, and the founding fathers. :)

Did not realize it was provided for in the Constitution but I don't believe the Constitution should never be changed. This is not part of the Bill of Rights

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/24/2013 2:28 AM
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Those who are dominantly reptilian...tend to become Republicans.

So Republicans are snakes...



Snakes everywhere are offended....


i really think it goes the other direction:
Fish Brain; concerned with the most basic of needs: eat ,sleep, breathe
Rodent Brain: more sophisticated responses ... bonding, some planning, some organization and communication
Ape (hominoid?) Brain: the full enchilada --hate and discontent, gods to justify it, kill anyone who gets in the way.....



(i was reminded of this watching an old sic-fi that had had a great impact on my 11-yr-old self -- a group goes into the Mts to find/capture/kill a Yeti. the leader is a sort of Frank Buck/Carl Denham who aims to take one back for the circus...
He's taken on a scientist/explorer/mystic who just wants to study the 'thing' ...he runs this riff about how there may have been three species of human ..

they 'accidentally' kill one and then the party is picked off one by one by strange happenings (they hear voices, hallucinate, walk off cliffs).

when they're down to the two (adventurer and scientist), scientist opines, knowing the Yeti have been killing the other members of the expedition .... perhaps they saw what WE were and took off to the Mts, to wait for us to destroy ourselves and then they could come down and live in peace.... <perhaps we're not Homo.sapiens, man the thinker, but Homo.vaster, man the destroyer>

the scientist escapes (deus ex machine) and when he gets back to 'civilization' says, "there is no Yeti" .....

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 2/24/2013 11:26 AM
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the scientist escapes (deus ex machine) and when he gets back to 'civilization' says, "there is no Yeti" .....

--------


What movie was this?
I gotta see this. :)

AM

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Author: Wessex99 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 420233 of 444956
Subject: Re: post office Date: 4/1/2013 10:43 PM
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There is of course no doubt that republicans intend to destroy our Country for as many people as possible.

It's money and power, AM. They will not stop until everyone except the 1% (or above) and their lackeys are desperate serfs.

Wessex

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 4/2/2013 1:54 AM
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They will not stop until everyone except the 1% (or above) and their lackeys are desperate serfs.

Seems that way, though you'd think they'd be all over gun control. 300M heavily armed, desperate serfs is not going to help their cause. They may want to review what happened to the Czar, Marie Antoinette, and some others.

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 4/2/2013 2:34 AM
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Seems that way, though you'd think they'd be all over gun control. 300M heavily armed, desperate serfs is not going to help their cause. They may want to review what happened to the Czar, Marie Antoinette, and some others.


meh ... the citizens will have rifles and handguns
the Army: tanks mortars arty automatic weapons
and air support.

if they lose the military, citizens won't matter


and I think part of the syndrome is believing it can't happen here
it's different now but if it does happen I'll be
gone

it's alot like the story of the Tyrannosaurus & the Slug

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Subject: Re: post office Date: 4/2/2013 9:15 AM
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300M heavily armed, desperate serfs is not going to help their cause.

They own the drones and control the oxygen supply.

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