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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1972748  
Subject: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/22/2013 10:31 AM
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"Obama's Middle East policy in tatters:"

"U.S is now less popular in the region than at the end of the George W. Bush administration."

snip
"The White House has been lowering expectations for Obama's trip to Israel all this week.
If Israelis don't like Obama, Palestinians are even less favorable.
Obama has to assure Israelis and Palestinians that he is still engaged.
President Obama's first journey to Israel as president comes amid earth-shattering change in Middle East, much of it for the worse. The Arab Spring, which once raised hopes of freedom and dignity, has diverged onto the dark path of Islamist authoritarian rule. In Syria, tens of thousands of people have died in a bitter civil war that might have recently seen its first use of chemical weapons. And Iran continues its march toward nuclear weapons capability, heedless of international condemnation. Obama's effort to seek peace between Palestinians and Israelis is in tatters.
snip
"That's why the White House has been lowering expectations for Obama's trip to Israel all this week. He will announce no new peace plan, grand design or major foreign policy initiative. His advisers are calling the trip a "listening tour." That is what you call a state visit when you have little to say."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/03/20/obamas-midd...

PS: The article is not from FOXNews so it must be true...
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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1866749 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/22/2013 11:16 AM
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PS: The article is not from FOXNews so it must be true...

Funny admission.

But it's not a news article at all. It's an opinion piece written by James Robbins, who used to be a columnist for the Washington Times and now works for a right-wing think tank.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1866765 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/22/2013 12:34 PM
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PS: The article is not from FOXNews so it must be true...

Funny admission.

But it's not a news article at all. It's an opinion piece written by James Robbins, who used to be a columnist for the Washington Times and now works for a right-wing think tank.

_______________________

It is an admission of truth...According to the left here you cannot trust FOXNews, but if a liberal rag quotes it, it must be true...

"All major U.S. media lean left except Fox News and Washington Times, UCLA study finds.."


http://www.tldm.org/News8/MediaLeansLeft.htm


http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2005/dec/05121...

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Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1866782 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/22/2013 1:20 PM
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My mom's side is from the Middle East. The Middle East to me is proof of mankind's ability to find the smallest, stupidest things to fight over. Take away religion, and most of the groups fighting are probably genetically the same - is there really any genetic difference between Palestinians and Israelis, or Armenians and Turks? To put it in perspective - they're fighting over which invisible all-power being to pretend rules the universe.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1866794 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/22/2013 1:32 PM
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It is an admission of truth...According to the left here you cannot trust FOXNews, but if a liberal rag quotes it, it must be true...

"All major U.S. media lean left except Fox News and Washington Times, UCLA study finds.."



Well, at least you can name one newspaper. Now go to the dictionary and look up "Opinion"

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Author: markand4504 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1866813 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/22/2013 3:18 PM
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My mom's side is from the Middle East. The Middle East to me is proof of mankind's ability to find the smallest, stupidest things to fight over. Take away religion, and most of the groups fighting are probably genetically the same - is there really any genetic difference between Palestinians and Israelis, or Armenians and Turks? To put it in perspective - they're fighting over which invisible all-power being to pretend rules the universe.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To put it in perspective they are fighting over land. Who should get the land? It's a tough call. There's the guys with an IBM research and development lab or the guys who just killed a woman for riding a motorcycle.

It's a tough call I know.

Mark

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1866824 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/22/2013 3:42 PM
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But it's not a news article at all. It's an opinion piece written by James Robbins, who used to be a columnist for the Washington Times and now works for a right-wing think tank.

_______________________

It is an admission of truth...According to the left here you cannot trust FOXNews, but if a liberal rag quotes it, it must be true...


No one here thinks that.

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Author: schvitzing Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1866897 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/22/2013 8:15 PM
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The article is not from FOXNews so it must be true...

It's opinion, not news.

But, here's news, datelined today:

Israel and Turkey agreed to restore full diplomatic relations on Friday after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu apologized in a phone call for a deadly naval raid against a Gaza-bound international flotilla in a dramatic turnaround partly brokered by President Barack Obama.

...

It was a surprising turnaround for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who had long rejected calls to apologize. He announced the breakthrough after a 20-minute phone conversation with his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Obama helped broker the fence-mending while visiting Israel, but the sides had been reaching out to each other before.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130322/DA56DKM81.html

In tatters, you say?

Schvitz

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1866904 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/22/2013 8:35 PM
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It's funny, the right accusses Obama supporters of worshiping him, but in reality they are the ones expecting him to perform miracles.

The people of the middle are trying to kill each other. It's only been that way for about 5000 years. But the right is upset that Obama can't snap his fingers and make everything perfect in an instant.

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Author: wittgenstein Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1866909 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/22/2013 8:50 PM
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But the right is upset that Obama can't snap his fingers and make everything perfect in an instant.

I think he delivered an outstanding performance.

jz

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1866999 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 8:25 AM
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It's opinion, not news.

But, here's news, datelined today:

Israel and Turkey agreed to restore full diplomatic relations on Friday after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu apologized in a phone call for a deadly naval raid against a Gaza-bound international flotilla in a dramatic turnaround partly brokered by President Barack Obama.

It was a surprising turnaround for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who had long rejected calls to apologize. He announced the breakthrough after a 20-minute phone conversation with his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Obama helped broker the fence-mending while visiting Israel, but the sides had been reaching out to each other before.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130322/DA56DKM81.html

In tatters, you say?

Schvitz


__________________________________

Yes, in tatters, and another bit of opinion explaining why...

snip
"OBAMA CAUSES ISRAEL TO MAKE HUMILIATING APOLOGY TO TURKEY’S ANTI-ISRAEL PRIME MINISTER
Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu apologized today to Turkey on Friday for an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla. The apology is, of course, the handiwork of President Obama. Indeed, Netanyahu made the call during an airport meeting with Obama shortly before Obama mercifully left Israel.

The apology is a humiliation for Israel, which had nothing for which to be sorry. Netanyahu’s statement — which he wisely resisted making for three years — will not improve Israeli relations with Turkey. Relations are poor not because of the flotilla incident, but because Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan, a good friend of Obama’s, is an Israel-hating Islamist.

How much does Erdogan hate Israel? Daniel Pipes reminds us that last month, Erdogan stated: “Just like Zionism, anti-Semitism and fascism, Islamophobia must be regarded as a crime against humanity.” And three days ago, Erdogan stood by his claim that Zionism, the principle upon which Israel is founded, constitutes a crime against humanity.

If anyone should apologize, it is Erdogan — not just for his verbal attack on Zionism, but also for supporting the terrorists who undertook the Gaza flotilla . But instead, thanks to Obama, Erdogan is rewarded with an apology from Israel.

Erodgan/Turkey is the only winner from Obama’s trip to Israel. And he’s the only party Obama wanted to win, now that he has become disillusioned with the Palestinians.


http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/03/obama-causes-i...

and here are some more today's headlines...

'Most Palestinians hate Obama'; US president gets heated reception in West Bank

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palesti...

No love in Jordan
snip
Protests held in Jordan ahead of Obama visit

http://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/protests-held-jordan-ahead-...

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Author: schvitzing Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867010 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 10:20 AM
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Yes, in tatters, and another bit of opinion ...
The apology is a humiliation for Israel, ...
'Most Palestinians hate Obama...
No love in Jordan...'


Let me see if I've got this right.

Reactionaries have lambasted Obama as being un-American, a foreginer.

Reactionaries have attacked the president, and continue to attack him, as an enemy of Israel.

Now, it appears that he's also the Palestinians' enemy.

All this while brokering a rapprochement between two of our nation's most important allies.

Something doesn't fit. Perhaps you could explain...coherently, if you can.

BTW, Bibi [and Israel] will get over his 'humiliation,' even if you and Pipes won't.

Schvitz

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Author: anniesdad Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867021 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 11:05 AM
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“He’s completely conquered us,” said Israel’s new cabinet secretary ahead of the second state dinner in Obama’s honor in as many nights. “It’s been a wonderful trip.”

Many Israelis compared the president to a rock star. One boy who met him at a reception at the home of President Shimon Peres was filmed later telling friends, “He’s really tall. He’s handsome.” Jerusalemites seemed dazed by the proximity to such glamour.

Obama chose as the centerpiece of his visit one of the most extensive and probing presidential statements ever made on the nature of Israeli-American ties and on the possibilities, both hopeful and dire, that await Israel in its future.

The 45-minute speech was interrupted more than 15 times by a cheering audience made up of university students who had won their place in the convention center hall through raffles.
http://www.salon.com/2013/03/22/obama_completely_conquers_is...

“It is not fair that a Palestinian child cannot grow up in a state of their own, living their entire lives with the presence of a foreign army that controls the movements, not just of those young people but their parents, their grandparents, every single day,” the president said. “It’s not just when settler violence against Palestinians goes unpunished.”

The cheers and applause that greeted Obama’s statements calling for justice for the Palestinian people surprised most Israeli observers.


........
Israel and Turkey were once close allies. But in recent years, ties have deteriorated with the rise of Erdogan’s Islamist party. Following the flotilla incident, Turkey withdrew its ambassador to Israel and greatly scaled back military and economic ties. But relations were never broken completely.

A statement from Erdogan’s office said Netanyahu had apologized on behalf of Israel for all kinds of mistakes that resulted in the loss of life or injuries in light of an investigation led by the Israeli side that pointed at a series of operational mistakes. “Our prime minister accepted the apology in the name of the Turkish people,” it said.

The statement from Turkey said an agreement also had been reached on the issue of compensation and that Israel had lifted restrictions on the movement of goods to Gaza as long as “calm” lasts.

During the telephone conversation, Erdogan told Netanyahu that he valued the strong ties of friendship between the Turkish and Jewish people, the statement said.

Erdogan “expressed that it was saddening that relations, which are of vital strategic importance for peace and the stability of the region, have been soured in recent years,” the statement said.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/22/israel_on_turkish_flotilla_d...

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867047 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 1:00 PM
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OBAMA CAUSES ISRAEL TO MAKE HUMILIATING APOLOGY

How did he do that exactly? With the force, maybe. But that only works on people with weak minds. Does Netanyahu have a weak mind? He never struck me as having one.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867054 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 1:25 PM
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BTW, Bibi [and Israel] will get over his 'humiliation,' even if you and Pipes won't.

Schvitz

____________________________

In the larger picture, the prez (Washington) needs both Turkey and Israel, but too bad the prez couldn't also force an apology from the Turks who supported the illegal armada carrying illegal arms to Israel's enemies. Instead the prez resorted to his usual undiplomatic diplomacy.

From the past...
snip
"We need not apologize for the fact that naval commandos defended their lives against an assault by violent IHH activists, and for the fact that we acted to stop the smuggling of weapons to Hamas, a terrorist organization that has already fired over 10,000 missiles and rockets at our civilians," said Netanyahu. "We need not apologize for the fact that we acted to defend our people, our children and our communities."
The prime minister, however, reiterated that Israel has expressed "regret over the loss of life" in the incident, which has since seen a deterioration in the relations between Israel and Turkey."

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-09/04/c_131...

eom

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Author: schvitzing Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867072 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 2:16 PM
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but too bad the prez couldn't also force an apology from the Turks who supported the illegal armada carrying illegal arms to Israel's enemies.

Perhaps that's because the 'armada', as you call it, was unarmed.
Well,maybe not entirely. According to the right-wing Jerusalem Post, the commandos did find "...knives, slingshots and night vision goggles."

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177342

Slingshots!! Clearly heavy weaponry, especially in light of David's victory over Goliath. But, not even an AR-15.

Don't let facts get in your way.

Schvitz

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867091 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 3:55 PM
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"Slingshots!! Clearly heavy weaponry, especially in light of David's victory over Goliath. But, not even an AR-15.

Don't let facts get in your way.

Schvitz "

You are the one letting facts getting in your way. If your version was as simple as that then you would be right , but you conveniently leave out facts that makes you assertion false.

Fact 1. Israel has a naval blockade of Gaza.

Fact 2. Israel warned the flotilla that they would be stopped, if they continued to Gaza.

Fact 3. Israel had every right to board that ship according to international laws.

So, your assertion is full of BS.

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Author: schvitzing Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867094 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 4:14 PM
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So, your assertion is full of BS.

And what, exactly, was that assertion?

Schvitz

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867096 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 4:16 PM
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"And what, exactly, was that assertion?

Schvitz "

OK. You implied assertion, that Israel had no right to board the vessel.

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Author: schvitzing Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867107 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 5:12 PM
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OK. You implied assertion, that Israel had no right to board the vessel.

I implied nothing of the sort.

I rebutted the assertion stated in the title to this thread with breaking news to the contrary.

I rebutted the further assertion that the Turkish ship was transporting illegal arms with a cite to a right-wing Israeli newspaper.

And I requested a coherent explanation of reactionaries' seemingly contradictory positions on the president.

I made no assertion in this thread, express or implied, other than that the article cited by the OP was opinion, not fact.

Schvitz

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867110 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 5:17 PM
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Sorry for the misunderstanding on my art.

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Author: LurkerMom Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867137 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 7:42 PM
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Perhaps that's because the 'armada', as you call it, was unarmed.
Well,maybe not entirely. According to the right-wing Jerusalem Post, the commandos did find "...knives, slingshots and night vision goggles."

Slingshots!! Clearly heavy weaponry, especially in light of David's victory over Goliath. But, not even an AR-15.

Don't let facts get in your way.

Schvitz

______________________________

From a left wing American newspaper, the NYT...

snip
"The vessels refused the military’s request to dock at the Israeli port of Ashdod, north of Gaza, and continued toward their destination.

Around 4 a.m. on Monday, naval commandos came aboard the Turkish ship, the Mavi Marmara, having been lowered by ropes from helicopters onto the decks.

At that point, the operation seems to have gone badly wrong.

Israeli officials say that the soldiers were dropped into an ambush and were attacked with clubs, metal rods and knives.

An Israeli official said that the navy was planning to stop five of the six vessels of the flotilla with large nets that interfere with propellers, but that the sixth was too large for that. The official said there was clearly an intelligence failure in that the commandos were expecting to face passive resistance, and not an angry, violent reaction.

The Israelis had planned to commandeer the vessels and steer them to Ashdod, where their cargo would be unloaded and, the authorities said, transferred overland to Gaza after proper inspection.

The military said in a statement that two activists were later found with pistols taken from Israeli commandos. It accused the activists of opening fire, “as evident by the empty pistol magazines.”

Another soldier said the orders were to neutralize the passengers, not to kill them.

But the forces “had to open fire in order to defend themselves,” the navy commander, Vice Adm. Eliezer Marom, said at a news conference in Tel Aviv, adding, “Their lives were at risk.”

At least seven soldiers were wounded, one of them seriously. The military said that some suffered gunshot wounds; at least one had been stabbed."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/world/middleeast/01flotill...

So right don't let the facts get in your way.

"The government of Israel alleged that the flotilla was organized as a provocation or media stunt,[text 1] and that a hard core of about 40 IHH activists were prepared from the beginning for a violent confrontation.[6] The New York Times, in an editorial, asserted that "At least some of the activists on the lead ship, the Mavi Marmara, were seeking a confrontation – and got one."[7]"

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867154 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/23/2013 10:06 PM
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Don't let facts get in your way.

Have you ever known a neo-con who did?

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Author: jaagu Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867171 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/24/2013 2:43 AM
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"All major U.S. media lean left except Fox News and Washington Times, UCLA study finds.."

========================

IIRC that study from 2005 says owners and editors of U.S. media lean right while most reporters lean left.

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1867172 of 1972748
Subject: Re: prez Middle East Policy In Tatters Date: 3/24/2013 3:06 AM
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Perhaps that's because the 'armada', as you call it, was unarmed.

So it was really an unarmada?

-synchronicity

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