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Author: stockmover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 10370  
Subject: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 5/30/2009 1:30 AM
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Hi Everyone

I am trying to find out how to correct my Quicken 2007 reports and graphs from showing transactions such as asset transfers ( ie transfers from one bank account to another bank account and also my credit card payments) as an expense or an income item when in reality it should not be shown neither as an expense nor an income item on the reports and graphs that Q2007 generates.
For a little background info I recently updated my Quicken 2007 Basic Edition (which I had used for several years on my old XP pc without any problem) so it would run on my new laptop running the Vista Home Premium OS. I recently spoke to a Quicken techie using their chat feature but after about 10 minutes I knew that he knew zilch about double entry accounting with him finally telling me that Q07 was handling it properly??? He is dead wrong!
Kurtv helped me to uninstall the old Quicken software (a long story) on the HWTSC board and I really appreciate his help. Everything in Q07 is running fine except for this problem. Anyone else having this problem or know of a fix?
I appreciate any advice.

TG
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Author: Rikka7 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8972 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 5/30/2009 8:55 AM
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There's a report option for Transfers (in 2008, it's on the Advanced tab when you customize an income/expense report). Choose Exclude Internal.

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Author: Kurtv Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8973 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 5/30/2009 10:05 AM
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Rikka7 nailed it, here's a rec!

While I wouldn't call it a bug, there are many options included in the reports that make them hard to use. Call it "Non-Intuit-tive" if you want.
I mostly strip down the canned report to include nothing and then build it to show only what I really want. Still, in your case the option to exclude internal transfers was mighty easy to overlook. ;-)

Kurt

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Author: stockmover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8976 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 5/30/2009 1:27 PM
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There's a report option for Transfers (in 2008, it's on the Advanced tab when you customize an income/expense report). Choose Exclude Internal.

I think I may have already tried that but I'll make sure and report back. Thanks for all your help guys.

TG

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Author: Patzer Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8977 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 5/30/2009 7:48 PM
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There's a report option for Transfers (in 2008, it's on the Advanced tab when you customize an income/expense report). Choose Exclude Internal.

I think I may have already tried that but I'll make sure and report back. Thanks for all your help guys.


Exclude Internal worked great in Quicken Deluxe 99. It broke for me with Quicken Deluxe 2004. I'm now running Quicken Premier Home & Business 2006, and the reports seem to be organized the same was as in Q2004.

The secret: Each transfer account is a also a category according to the reports. I had to go through Customize and uncheck all the categories corresponding to internal transfers. When I did this, there was no fail-safe for two way transfers. By this I mean it was quite possible to include Account A and Account B in the report, showing transfer from A to B but not from B to A.

Be sure you save any report you want to use again. This level of customization would be really annoying to do on an ad hoc basis.

Patzer

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Author: stockmover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8978 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 5/31/2009 12:05 AM
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I am Baaaaack

Thanks to Kurt, Patzer and Rikka7's help I was FINALLY able to get the reports and related graphs to come out correctly! What a PIA ! Ya know for a software company as large as Intuit who sells Quick Books TurboTax and other small business related accounting and tax software it confounds me that, we the users, have to customize reports that should be a standard report within Quicken. Oh well, I had to get that off of my chest! Once again thanks guys for all of your help.

Sincerely,

TG

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Author: xSixSigmaMBB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8979 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 5/31/2009 10:17 AM
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TG,

I'm sorry to rant here...

Those reports have included transfers since about version 4 BECAUSE customers want to see that stuff... not the other way around.

The only way anything in Quicken ever gets changed is because of customer input either from "Follow-Me-Homes" or from bug reports / support requests. As a matter of fact, I know that Gordon here on TMF specifically was involved in making a change that was implemented in the 2009 version.

Don't complain about it here, go to the Quicken forums and request the changes over there. That is how Gordon and other did it.

Rant over

xSSMBB
Former Intuit Employee

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Author: stockmover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8980 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 5/31/2009 7:04 PM
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I sincerely didn't mean to "ruffle any feathers" and my frustration with Intuit/Quicken has no reflection on you. But let's face it Chris, Intuit use to have great products a few years back but then they started to lose their customer base in droves because 1st) TurboTax (TT) started to make their users register TT on only one computer which caused a whole host of problems for the users especially ones not having administrator priviledge etc ; 2nd) then last year they wanted to charge their TT users a $9.95 fee for each additional tax return that they printed whether or not they filed it 3rd) this year they stopped making the Basic Quicken Version and substituted Quicken Starter 2009 which didn't let their users transfer data from earlier Quicken Versions. Yes you are right, it's called a "Starter Edition" but the lack of data transfer capability was in the fine print on the box. Many users did not see it. I am not so naive that I don't realise that some people abuse TT and prepare several returns for others but there has to be a better way for Intuit to handle this issue.
Finally, now for the issue at hand ~ Quicken. You tell me that the report formats were done in such a manner to appease the end user. Well the end user probably in most cases has little or no formal accounting education and/or experience. My best guess is that the vast majority of the users are just trying to see where their money is going to? Most folks can tell you how much money they make ... but where they spend it? ... that's another story and they more than likely do not have a clue? That is why they rely on financial programs such as Quicken, QuickBooks and TurboTax to help them. Within Intuit they must have host of accountants, tax experts, application programmers/systems analysts to design, create and develop their software. When Quicken treats Transfer transactions as either an expense or income item in their reports and/or graphs it is totally wrong. These transfers are solely Balance Sheet transactions and not P&L transactions. Therefore Quicken distorts the true income and expense totals for the user. These transfer transactions don't even effect Cash Flow statements.

I guess what I am saying is that the end user places their complete trust in Quicken, TurboTax and Intuit to help them manage their personal finances without having to know about the debits and credits of accounting or the complex IRS tax laws and regulations in filing their tax returns. At the very least Intuit should follow GAAP no matter what the user may erroneously or naively ask for. Thanks for listening folks.

TG

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Author: xSixSigmaMBB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8981 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 5/31/2009 9:14 PM
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TG,

First, I feel I must disclose: From the position I was in at Intuit, I had inside information and I'm still legally not allowed to discuss non-publicly announced information I was privy to at the time of my departure last August.

You are correct...

In the case of the reports, you are correct, Quicken is geared at a user that has no formal accounting experience or knowledge. Any historian or the book, Inside Intuit, can tell you that Quicken was originally built for Scott Cook's wife. She hated balancing their checkbook and wanted there to be an easier way to accomplish the task. Alas Quicken was born. Chipsoft which was purchased by Intuit in 1994 was built to make filing taxes easier. When I first joined, I was originally a Chipsoft employee and was there through the Intuit / Chipsoft merger and the failed Microsoft merger. I grew up in the support organization and can make your head spin with the things I've forgotten about Quicken and QuickBooks. I'm not here to brag however, just trying to give some context.

I can tell you that the number of developers for Quicken is WAY smaller than you'd think.

You are correct that Intuit is getting defensive protecting the franchise for very good reason. The difficult problem in today's society are the number of people out there that are leaching off of big companies like Intuit or Microsoft. Did you know that roughly 8 out of every 10 copies of Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Office, Quicken and QuickBooks sold on eBay are likely counterfeit or were illegally obtained?! They are legit copies of the software, but are purchased through counterfeit means and then illegally re-sold. Now you understand why Intuit, Microsoft and other software companies such as the gaming industries "lock down" the applications so that they rightfully attempt to receive the revenue they deserve.

When I was first a support agent in TurboTax back in 1994, I had CPA's using TurboTax to do 300 returns... this is why Intuit went to the registered copy fiasco. Regretfully this hurt the legitimate end users of TurboTax which is why Intuit rescinded the registration copy protection about a month or so into that season and changed the methodology to prevent CPA's from using it.

I hear you on the GAAP side of things, but at the end of the day, Quicken is geared at making someone's financial life easier not harder. That is why you traditionally don't see a P&L or Balance Sheet in Quicken, but do in QuickBooks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still a HUGE proponent of Intuit. I wish I were still there, but it wasn't meant to be and was time for me to move on. If you have a legitimate gripe about something, Intuit DOES listen, but not here on TMF. There are 2 other TMF users that are Intuit employees, but I don't think they pay as close attention here anymore. They are more focused on the Quickengroups' boards and they do listen and respond.

I still have contacts there and am happy to forward your request along. To get a new report such as what you're looking for you won't see anything until the 2010 version.

xSSMBB
Former Intuit Employee '94-'08
Current Intuit Stockholder

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Author: stockmover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8982 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 5/31/2009 11:19 PM
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First of all I want to thank you xSSMBB for your courteous reply and for volunteering to forward my request to the approriate people. And especially for a greater insight into the mindset at Intuit/Quicken which you provided me and many other Fools Im sure.
I am sorry that things didn't work out for you at Quicken and in my opinion it's Intuit's loss. Thanks again for your help and insight Chris.
Best Regards,

Rich (aka TG)

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Author: hockeypop Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8983 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 6/1/2009 7:51 AM
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xSSMBB

As a Quicken user from the DOS days before TT I feel somewhat compelled to point out that I get no greater value anywhere than from my Intuit products.

Because one year I was paying taxes to Virginia and NJ (with residences in each), with one college kid working in NYC after working in Delaware the year before, I paid about 15 years of TT cost to have our auditors check my returns. The difference by their accounts was "noise." How else could I accomodate my stubborness at still wanting to do my own taxes?

Quicken indeed frustrates me at times, usually from my errors. I've evolved into a non-technical probably power user (I use all parts and once ran a business off it), and couldn't conceive of my life without it. It helps if you remember that it's supposed to simplify things, not complicate them. I actually just learned about turning off the internal transfers. Previously I ignored them.

I KNOW of that tax preparer problem of which you speak. Indeed, how do you run a business when the best and brightest steal your product and reason that you should stop them (it reminds me of my daughter's excuse for stealing music off the web).

Well, thank you for your role.

Hockeypop

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Author: Patzer Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8984 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 6/2/2009 7:25 AM
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In the case of the reports, you are correct, Quicken is geared at a user that has no formal accounting experience or knowledge.

I can understand the addition of fluffware because of user requests. Unsophisticated users will request dumb things, and those dumb things translate into obnoxious wizards.

But that doesn't explain breaking things that formerly worked. In this thread, we have the example of the "exclude all" flag on the reports. It worked in Q99. It doesn't work in Q2004-2008, which is a pretty long time to leave a bug unfixed. At a minimum, the flag should have been removed; preferably, it should have been made to automatically check and uncheck the appropriate categories.

Then there's my pet peeve, the balance adjustment. From Quicken 2.0 through Q99, I could balance adjust a cash account and it defaulted to the current date. Starting with Q2004, it defaulted to the last date a balance adjustment was done. I have a hard time believing that's a request by a user, even by an unsophisticated one. It's a bug that got introduced.

Stuff like this is why Intuit is losing its embedded customer base. I'd grumble but accept paying $30 every three years to keep the ability to download. I can live with bugs not getting fixed, once I get used to the workarounds. I'd grumble but live with the gratuitous changes in user interface. But when you throw in random breakage of stuff that used to work, it's not worth it. I'll live with what I've got for as long as it works, and deal with not being able to download.

Patzer

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Author: Radish Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8985 of 10370
Subject: Re: Problem with Quicken 2007 Date: 6/2/2009 7:59 PM
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But that doesn't explain breaking things that formerly worked.

I'm using Quicken 2008 Deluxe, and one of the most annoying things in it is the change in the calculator function. In all previous versions, when entering a dollar amount you could type a calculation and hit either Tab (to go on to the next field in the entry) or Enter (to complete the entry, this is assuming one has "Use enter key to move between fields" turned off).

For example, in a register entry you could hit tab to move to Payee and type in the payee, then hit tab to move to Charge and type 100+3 to calculate the sum of 100 dollars and 3 dollars. Now you could hit Tab to move on to Memo, or hit Enter to complete the entry. Either way the Charge would be $103.

In Quicken 2008, if you hit Tab to move on to Memo, the Charge is $3, not $103. And if you hit Enter, the Charge becomes $103, but it doesn't complete the entry. Note that if you just type in 103 and hit Enter, that does complete the entry.

Since upgrading to 2008, countless times I've made incorrect entries because of hitting Tab after a calculation, something that always worked before. This especially happens a lot when I'm doing a purchase as a split transaction into multiple categories and I want to include sales tax in each category. If the sales tax is, for example, 7% and the item costs $5.43, for the charge I'd type in 5.43*1.07 and hit tab to move on to the next split entry. Starting with Quicken 2008, when I do that I get $1.07 instead of the cost of the item including tax. Sooooo annoying.

xSixSigmaMBB seems to be claiming that Quicken implements user suggestions for improvements. I've asked for a simple improvement many, many times over many years and never gotten so much as a response. I use "wallet checks", which have three checks on a page. Whenever you print a check, Quicken shows the next check number automatically. From the check number, it could easily figure out whether the page you're about to print has three, two, or one check remaining. But it doesn't. You have to tell it every time if it's not the default selection of three. This is not rocket science. You just divide the check number by three and look at the remainder. The remainder tells you how many checks are left on the page, assuming the user has ever printed a check before and indicated how many checks were left. It would work until you order a new batch of checks, then you might have to override the setting on the first new check you print. Then you'd be all set for the entire batch. As I said, I've asked for this over and over, many different ways, and never gotten any response from Intuit. On the other hand, I hardly ever print checks anymore. So it's not as annoying as it used to be.

Meanwhile, the last time Intuit sent me a letter urging me to upgrade to a new version of Quicken, I read through the entire letter and noticed that there were no new features of any sort, as far as I could tell. The website says "Improved! See what bills have already been paid, what's coming up and if you have enough left in your accounts to cover them". Already got that. "New! Save money and shop smart... Quicken Picks seeks out the best online coupons". Yawn. Like I want my accounting program to spam me with coupons. "Improved! Optimize your complete investment portfolio online". Pretty sure 2008 already has that, not that'd I'd ever use it. "New! Enjoy guidance and helpful tips on every page". Yawn. I can already use Help from every page. "Improved! Connect to more financial institutions". Huh? Isn't Quicken 2008 already constantly wasting my time downloading new institution lists? "What's more, we make it easy to upgrade to 2009... reads and imports your existing Quicken data". Wow, just like every Quicken upgrade I've ever done. But wait, there's more! Oops, no, there isn't! That's all the amazing new features, according to the website. Gee, I wonder why I didn't jump on that upgrade?

Phil

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