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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 455614  
Subject: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 12:27 AM
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To put cutting 2.4 percent from $3.5 trillion in government spending in perspective, let’s look at what a 2.4 percent cut to a family budget would look like. To reduce their spending by 2.4 percent, the average Texas family would need to:

- Run cars on 94.7 gallons of gasoline a month instead of 97 gallons per month

- Find $6 in savings from a $250 monthly grocery budget

- Look for ways to conserve $4.20 from a $175 monthly utilities bill

All working Americans had to figure out how to make ends meet with 2 percent less in their paychecks last month when the payroll tax expired. How is it that Washington can’t do the same?
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Author: tim443 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417046 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 8:34 AM
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DD

According to the news people this thingy is so destructive that neighbouring galaxies will be destroyed along with our own?

One clearly stated that only in the US would they develop a poison pill so powerful that the US and much of the rest of the global economy will become an economic wasteland for decades to come... and then immediately swallowed it. }};-()

Perhaps a touch of hyperbole? }};-D

In truth it doesn't sound like a very good idea to me and some people/families will certainly see it as a personal economic disaster.

There is something to be said for a parliamentary system where we know who is responsible for the mess... most of the time.


**** absolutely not signed ****


OT - If you think the voter is always right this story should destroy that notion.

Most Provinces in Canada use the HST which is a combined Federal/Provincial sales tax with the Feds collecting and turning the provincial share over to them. This saves a tremendous amount of administrative cost from the old GST and PST taxes being collected separately. A former BC premier somehow convinced the electorate that they were being ripped off after they had switched to the HST and managed to get a referendum that he won with 55% of those who bothered to mail in their vote.

I don't think they have calculated the cost just from having to revert the change but it is at a minimum a couple of billion with continuing costs from the province now having to manage their own collection. I think this may be a bit of a simplistic explanation but at least the gist of it.

http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/pst-return.htm

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Author: notehound Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417047 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 8:57 AM
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One clearly stated that only in the US would they develop a poison pill so powerful that the US and much of the rest of the global economy will become an economic wasteland for decades to come... and then immediately swallowed it.

Who'd-a-thunk that reducing the amount of spending increase would be so painful? I guess it's all in how a person looks at things.

For instance, if my DW and I are faced with a spending freeze, reduction in increase or even an outright spending cut due to a lack of revenues (income) necessary to support our spending, she will have a very different view than I.

The first thing I would cut would be the premium channels on cable TV. However, she would consider such a sacrifice to be equivalent to being sentenced to prison in a desert.

On the other hand, DW would be glad to cut back on some services that I value greatly, such as lawn fertilizing/weed control or the pest control service.

However, I think she would miss the weed control and pest control a lot more quickly than I would miss the cable TV.

;-)

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Author: tim443 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417049 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 9:24 AM
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The first thing I would cut would be the premium channels on cable TV. However, she would consider such a sacrifice to be equivalent to being sentenced to prison in a desert.


Mutt,

Your wife and my wife have similar priorities. }};-D

Living in a five story condo has it's benefits with lawns, snow clearing, underground parking and security included.

My FIL who used to run them down now is "thinking about it". One would think that at 88 it would be the snow, lawn care and nice neighbourhood that would attract him? Not so, I've discovered that over Christmas while we were in Washington and he was cat sitting that a bunch of the "widow gang" were being very friendly. }};-O


Any <You can’t scare me, I had children> mouse

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Author: tim443 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417052 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 9:48 AM
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Perhaps a touch of hyperbole? }};-D


This one used "hurtled on Friday toward making deep spending cuts that threaten to hinder the nation's economic recovery,"!!!

I won't post any snips as it is entirely too political.

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2013/3/1/US-stares-down-start-of-85B-...


**** absolutely not signed ****

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Author: notehound Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417053 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 10:02 AM
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...a bunch of the "widow gang" were being very friendly.

That's a result of most women outliving their husbands by years.

Although I imagine that living as a single man (or widower) in old age can be a very difficult existence without a wife, I don't think loneliness will be a problem if the old guy observes the following:

"Notehound's Guidelines for Old Codgers"

1. Conscientiously observe personal hygiene (shave, shower, trim eyebrows and ear/nose hair) on a regular basis - whether you want to or not.

2. Don't allow yourself to get fat (it interferes with Guidelines No. 5 and 7, below).

3. Drive a nice car (preferably a luxury brand).

4. Take dancing lessons.

5. Don't talk too much about your aches & pains.

6. Go to church, temple or synagogue (there are more widow ladies in church than anywhere else).

7. From time to time, mention casually that you are a lousy cook (this explains why you are not fat).

8. Don't accept a home-cooked dinner invitation from the same lady in the group more than once every other week. Give the other ladies in the group their turn.

9. When being fed & entertained, don't mention any of the other ladies' cooking to the lady you're with - and for goodness' sake, don't tell the same old joke over & over.

10. Observe the above guidelines, and you'll never be lonely or hungry again.

;-)

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Author: hk2 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417056 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 10:26 AM
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All working Americans had to figure out how to make ends meet with 2 percent less in their paychecks last month when the payroll tax expired. How is it that Washington can’t do the same?


Knowledge that the intitial 2% cut in payroll tax was a temporary 'income bonus' helped.


But your 'mere 2.4%' cut will translate into a 20% cut in my paycheck. That's *my* perspective.

The current political gamesmanship will have real & meaningful impact on a large portion of our population.


Jim

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Author: GalinAZ Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417059 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 10:36 AM
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We all want to keep what we have and get more without any sacrifice. The party is over and time to pay the price.

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Author: warbac Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417060 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 10:43 AM
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" The party is over and time to pay the price."

What about those have been paying the price all along and for whom there never was a party?

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Author: notehound Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417065 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 11:30 AM
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We all want to keep what we have and get more without any sacrifice. The party is over and time to pay the price.

You're right, of course - and it should be time to pay the price.

However, because of their concerns about re-election (and defeating the opposing party) politicians will never voluntarily "get along" and implement the necessary changes until market mechanisms force them to do so against their political will.

For a very primitive analogy, think about two children fighting in the back seat of a car. The kids will continue fighting until a parent promises them both discipline. Once discipline is imposed by a parent, the children can quickly learn to get along (at least for a while).

Politicians are sensitive to market movements, market prices and market pressures. Since market mechanisms have been displaced, disrupted, manipulated and distorted by central bankers, it is impossible for the market to do its disciplinary work.

In the past, the market mechanism (i.e. - the "you must pay now" signal) was triggered by the now-extinct "Bond Vigilantes." In the mid-1990's, when the Bond Vigilantes demanded payment, the politicians were forced to act in the best interest of the country, rather than in the best interest of themselves.

Now that the Bond Vigilantes are dead (destroyed by unfair price competition from the central banks), only the endlessly-printing, endlessly-subsidizing, endlessly-ZIRP central bankers can trigger the payment mechanism.

In other words, so long as the Fed allows endless borrowing and printing at virtual zero interest cost, the politicians know it is not yet time to pay the price and that they can continue business-as-usual.

The US used to have two parents: Bond Vigilantes and the Fed. However, since one parent (the Fed) has now killed the other parent (Bond Vigilantes), it is left up to the Fed to enforce discipline and make the kids get along.

Nothing will change until the Fed makes things change. In the meantime, it's full-speed-ahead political fighting, spending and brinksmanship.

;-)

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Author: katinga Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417067 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 11:37 AM
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- Find $6 in savings from a $250 monthly grocery budget

Starting with a 6 pack of Bud replacing a 6 pack of Shiner.

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417069 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 12:18 PM
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Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.

According to the news people this thingy is so destructive that neighbouring galaxies will be destroyed along with our own?

Perhaps a touch of hyperbole?


Come now, Sir, surly you jest!

Mayhap you've been watching those alarmists at CNN, CNBC, CBS, NBC & ABC who can not conceive of government living within its means. Or perhaps the legislators who know (or think they know) that continued employment in their cushy jobs requires continuing the charade.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy will collapse over loose fiscal policy." (Attributed to several people, but you can blame me if it makes you feel better.)

Desert (Fundamental Law of the Universe 23B (FLU23B) Every organism from the lowly ameba to the smartest human does that which it perceives to be in its own best interests.) Dave

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Author: tim443 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417073 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 12:44 PM
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Mayhap you've been watching those alarmists at CNN, CNBC, CBS, NBC & ABC who can not conceive of government living within its means. Or perhaps the legislators who know (or think they know) that continued employment in their cushy jobs requires continuing the charade.


DD

Well yeah, but the BNN bureau chief who lives in New York was actually chuckling as he said "What a way to run a country". }};-D

Of course some of it has a Canuck slant to it.

http://watch.bnn.ca/#clip875624

How Canada Will be Affected by U.S. Spending Cuts? [03-01-13 10:05 AM]With US$85 million in spending cuts set to take effect in the U.S., BNN speaks with Perrin Beatty, President & CEO, Canadian Chamber of Commerce to find out how the Canadian economy will be affected.

Even RK's boss gets in on it.

http://watch.bnn.ca/#clip875627
<<<some political system comments>>>>
Impact of U.S. Spending Cuts on Canada's Economy [03-01-13 11:05 AM]BNN speaks with Gary Doer, Canadian Ambassador to the U.S. to find out how Canada's economy will be affected by the US$85 billion spending cuts set to take effect in the U.S.

http://watch.bnn.ca/#clip875632

ETF Update [03-01-13 11:25 AM]Amber Kanwar delivers today's ETF Update.

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Author: flyerboys Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417074 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 12:56 PM
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notes,

following your rules (he is an old Vienna gentleman and had no choice he was brought up that way) led my Uncle (now 93) to near panic as he found himself "hunted, pursued, trapped, ambushed, and then exhausted, drained, flattened and used up."

He picked one and negotiated a peace -- he "sleeps in my own cave and get Mondays off."

;-)

david fb

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Author: brucedoe Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417088 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 5:12 PM
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desert

Ah, but the cut is not on the whole Federal budget, only on DOD and non-defense discretionary spending (on $1.1, or 1.2 trillion) plus the fiscal year is already 5 mo. gone so a lot of money has already been spent. If you assume they have been spending 1/12 of their funds per mont (and it will be close to that because most of the budget is in salaries), The only 7/12 of the budget is left to cut or something like $0.645 trillion or $650 billion or 13.7% of the remaining funds. that percentage is larger than the operating funds of many bureaus for the entire fiscal year and, of course, if you take away all the operating funds, there is little work that can be done and you are left with employees twittering their fingers. Perhaps now you are beginning to see the magnitude of the problem of why so many people are either being laid off or furloughed?

That said, the Sequestration is an experiment. It is not even clear that the cuts will reduce the 2013 fiscal year deficit. About half the total will be in cut contracts and a three year contract that is cut this year in its first year is counted entirely against this year even though it has two years to run. That is the accounting method the government uses. Then all the temporary workers (non-critical workers by definition) laid off will get unemployment benefits. To cut many contracts, there will be a penalty to be paid. It goes on and on. It is possible that the deficit this fiscal year will be higher than the $89 billion.

One smart thing being done is to furlough Federal workers, this cuts their wages without actually cutting the salary plus they cannot apply for unemployment. But of course, they will have around 20% less money to spend during the furlough period - said to be 22 weeks in some agencies.

brucedoe

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Author: brucedoe Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417089 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 5:18 PM
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All working Americans had to figure out how to make ends meet with 2 percent less in their paychecks last month when the payroll tax expired. How is it that Washington can’t do the same?

Incidentally nearly all Federal workers are on the FERS retirement system (those hired since 1984) in which they pay for Social Security so they got the 2% cut too.

brucedoe

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Author: Volucris Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417091 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 5:58 PM
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Isn't Medicare and Medicaid slightly less than $1T? Isn't debt service about $400B?

Makes it a 4% cut. . . . . .

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417094 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 7:33 PM
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Isn't Medicare and Medicaid slightly less than $1T? Isn't debt service about $400B?

Makes it a 4% cut. . . . . .


Medicare and Medicaid, having absolutely no Constitutional justification, are classed among those things that Congress is generally considered to be incapable of cutting. ("Non-discretionary".)

Of course the programs only exist because Congress created them, so the notion that Congress *legally* can't cut them is absurd.

(Whether they are *politically* cut-able... apparently the answer is yes, because Medicare has been cut.)

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417096 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 8:30 PM
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On the other hand, DW would be glad to cut back on some services that I value greatly, such as lawn fertilizing/weed control or the pest control service.

Be a man! Buy a mouse trap, a bottle of RoundUp & a box of hydrogen borate (Boric Acid*&**) in the pharmacy at your grocery store for roaches and other bugs. Mix used coffee grounds and tea into the soil of your garden. Then sit down with your wife and watch TV!

*
Boric acid is one of the most commonly used homemade roach killer. It was first registered as an insecticide in 1948. When roaches eat the boric acid, it makes them become dehydrated, which will eventually kill them. The ones that eat it will typically bring some back to their nest, on their feet or body, and introduce it to the rest of the family.

**
Boric acid was first registered in the US as an insecticide in 1948 for control of cockroaches, termites, fire ants, fleas, silverfish, and many other insects. The product is generally considered to be safe to use in household kitchens to control cockroaches and ants.[16] It acts as a stomach poison affecting the insects' metabolism, and the dry powder is abrasive to the insects' exoskeleton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boric_acid#Insecticidal

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417098 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 8:52 PM
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" The party is over and time to pay the price."

What about those have been paying the price all along and for whom there never was a party?


That's right! We can spend and spend more and more forever and the good times will never end!

/snark

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417107 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 10:26 PM
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Ah, but the cut is not on the whole Federal budget, only on DOD and non-defense discretionary spending (on $1.1, or 1.2 trillion)...

Yes, yes I know. We can go on spending more than we make forever. There's no end to it.

Desert (The world's greatest excuse pales in the face of mediocre performance.) Dave
-- (Quotation, with attribution, permitted and encouraged.)

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Author: soycapital Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417108 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/1/2013 10:34 PM
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<Notehound; I gotta know how you know all this ancient wisdom?>

1. Conscientiously observe personal hygiene (shave, shower, trim eyebrows and ear/nose hair) on a regular basis - whether you want to or not.

2. Don't allow yourself to get fat (it interferes with Guidelines No. 5 and 7, below).

3. Drive a nice car (preferably a luxury brand).

4. Take dancing lessons.

5. Don't talk too much about your aches & pains.

6. Go to church, temple or synagogue (there are more widow ladies in church than anywhere else).

7. From time to time, mention casually that you are a lousy cook (this explains why you are not fat).

8. Don't accept a home-cooked dinner invitation from the same lady in the group more than once every other week. Give the other ladies in the group their turn.

9. When being fed & entertained, don't mention any of the other ladies' cooking to the lady you're with - and for goodness' sake, don't tell the same old joke over & over.

10. Observe the above guidelines, and you'll never be lonely or hungry again.

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Author: notehound Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417121 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/2/2013 10:32 AM
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<Notehound; I gotta know how you know all this ancient wisdom?>

My "Guidelines for Old Geezers" grew out of lessons I learned when I was fresh out of college and on my own for the first time - as a means to avoid starving.

After 4 years studying in the frozen North, I moved out to the left coast (Newport Beach, CA) and tried to live a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget. It took basically my whole paycheck just to cover the outrageous beachside apartment rent plus gas & auto insurance.

The only way I survived was by becoming active in one of the affluent local churches (since I was a trained musician, they paid me $100/month to be a singer in the choir). I used my "singing money" for groceries, but that still wasn't enough.

A couple of benefits of being a decent-looking clean-cut 22 year-old single guy and an active churchgoer in a wealthy community were as follows:

1. The old ladies of the church fell all over themselves to ask me to come have a nice home-cooked dinner; and

2. The young ladies of the church were all rich girls who offered to pay (with daddy's credit card) at least every other date.

Don't get me wrong - I wasn't a Kato Kaelin "freeloader-type" at all.

However, I quickly learned that being well-mannered, reasonably charming and sincerely appreciative of hospitality will make a single man of any age suitable company for desirable ladies of any age.

I stayed in touch with a couple of the widow ladies for many years - until sadly, they both passed away. They were true friends and surrogate moms - and they lived their faith.

It was the greatest time of my life - at least for the couple of years it lasted. I'm glad I got to live my California Dream.

Finally, I got tired of living from paycheck-to-paycheck and decided to move back East to go to law school and seek a career rather than a job.

Sometimes I wonder how different my life might have been if I'd stuck around and married one of the young heiresses, though (just kidding). Fortunately, my beautiful, charming wife doesn't read this board.

Now, you know more about my life than most of my closest friends. Yikes!

;-)

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Author: corbetti Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 417359 of 455614
Subject: Re: Putting the 2.4% cut into perspective Date: 3/5/2013 3:16 PM
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Define "Large".

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