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"Art....I think I need to learn more about this??? NDE?"- Birgit


Near death experiences and deathbed visions have been around for thousands of years. Plato, in his book "The Republic" actually tells the story about a soldier named "Er" who died on the battlefield and then 10 days later as they were gathering up the bodies to be cremated Er woke up and described having been in another place. Er also said that he could no longer live as he had been living because the experience had changed him so much.

Deathbed visions and nearing death awareness are experiences that dying people have close to to the time they are dying. They see their deceased relatives and have conversations, saying things like they a deceased loved one is there and they are going on a trip. My two favorite books, written by hospice nurses are "Final Gifts" written by Maggie Callanan and Patricia Kelly, and "Visions, Trips, and Crowded Rooms" written by David Kessler. Both books are excellent and very comforting and uplifting. They are both easy reads and can be read in a couple of days.

Art
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Talk to an elder law attorney in your state. The path forward varies depending on where you live.

intercst
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The easy solution is long term care insurance.

Other methods are usually based on the idea that after assets are depleted to a certain level then the individual qualifies for care under Medicade. But they keep extending the look back period (where assets given away must be counted in eligibility requirements) making this require long range planning in most cases.

Various methods can be used to reduce assets. Purchase an annuity. Various charitable trust arrangements. Donate funds to heirs. etc etc. Elder Care attorney will know the rules and what is required or possible in your state.
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"married couple both 78. If one gets a major illness, how can we protect our savings-net worth for other?" - Alan
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At your age I hope you have all the coverage you need? Medicare part A, and Part B, and supplemental, drug coverage, eye and dental, etc.

Health care is the #1 reason for bankruptcy in the United States. It is because our health care is so expensive and we are dependent on health insurance to take care of us. Even with Medicare we have to buy Medicare part B and Supplemental, and drug coverage so even with Medicare health care isn't free. When we go in the hospital we have no foreknowledge of how much it is going to cost in the end.

Usually in the end the doctors and lawyers end up with whatever is left at the end. Or you can refuse care and just go on ahead and die. If you see that the end is near and that further healthcare is pointless just go into hospice and cross over into the Light.

Art
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Art53 writes,

Usually in the end the doctors and lawyers end up with whatever is left at the end. Or you can refuse care and just go on ahead and die. If you see that the end is near and that further healthcare is pointless just go into hospice and cross over into the Light.

</snip>


Excellent advice!

I'm also planning low-cost cremation services. I see little utility in spending ten thousand dollars or more parading my remains around town in a hearse.

intercst
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"Excellent advice! I'm also planning low-cost cremation services. I see little utility in spending ten thousand dollars or more parading my remains around town in a hearse." - intercst
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I read somewhere that like 33% of healthcare dollars are spent on the last three months of life? Like the doctors know your dying but they keep trying new things which just runs up big bills and you end up dying anyway?

I know most of ya'll don't believe this NDE stuff I tell you about but I have read quite a few NDEs where the people describe that while they were out of their body they felt no emotion or attachment to their physical body. They say things like "I felt no attachment to that thing down there." They were told it was not their time and woke up in their bodies even though they would have preferred to stay on the other side.

The reason I say this is it is because from everything I've read "souls, ghosts, spirits," or whatever you want to call them don't care at all what happens to their old physical body. In fact the majority of people don't want to come back. The only people who say they wanted to come back are mothers with small children who want to return to their bodies to take care of their children.

Art
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If one gets a major illness, how can we protect our savings-net worth for other?

Are you concerned over the potential high costs of medical or custodial care? For medical costs, these should be covered by either Medicare + Medigap insurance, or a private Medicare Advantage plan. How much you will have to pay in copays and deductibles will depend on your coverage. If you are concerned about custodial care costs, there are a number of variables in asset protection before taxpayers (Medicaid) will pay for long term care, to include:

1. Whether your state is a community property or common law property state
2. What your state considers 'exempt' assets
3. How much in non-exempt assets your state will allow the spouse to retain.

If you, or a family member, checks you should be able to find an elder-law attorney near you that charges a reasonable rate for this kind of advice for your state.

BruceM
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No. of Recommendations: 25
I read somewhere that like 33% of healthcare dollars are spent on the last three months of life? Like the doctors know your dying but they keep trying new things which just runs up big bills and you end up dying anyway?


Disclaimer: I was a doctor.

Reality: I truly honored what a patient wanted. Often suggested hospice and supportive care in situations where few weeks would be gained, at significant quality-of-life cost. However, 8-9 times out of 10, if not defined by the patient, family stepped in and demanded (even threatened lawsuits if not done)fruitless, expensive, waste-of-time and destructive of quality-of-life attempts in the last days/weeks, etc.

If you choose to go gently into the night, talk to ALL of your family (even that child who really hasn't wanted to talk to you) and TELL them what you what. Don't discuss, don't debate.......tell them exactly what your call is. Put it in writing. They will debate and argue that is not what you wanted until you have been drug through the mud.

LakeD
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There is a great book that every older person should read entitled "Being Mortal" about how one doctor looks at the end of life.

After reading it, I took a serious look at who my primary care doctor is because I want them in sync with my desires. PLUS, I have to document all of my requests.

Thanks Doc for being one of the good guys - even if those families do not get it.

PW
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"

I read somewhere that like 33% of healthcare dollars are spent on the last three months of life? Like the doctors know your dying but they keep trying new things which just runs up big bills and you end up dying anyway?


Disclaimer: I was a doctor.

Reality: I truly honored what a patient wanted. Often suggested hospice and supportive care in situations where few weeks would be gained, at significant quality-of-life cost. However, 8-9 times out of 10, if not defined by the patient, family stepped in and demanded (even threatened lawsuits if not done)fruitless, expensive, waste-of-time and destructive of quality-of-life attempts in the last days/weeks, etc.

If you choose to go gently into the night, talk to ALL of your family (even that child who really hasn't wanted to talk to you) and TELL them what you what. Don't discuss, don't debate.......tell them exactly what your call is. Put it in writing. They will debate and argue that is not what you wanted until you have been drug through the mud.

LakeD

"

***************************************


And may God help you should you change your mind.

Howie52
sometimes even "control freaks" have periods where they recognize that
they do not have control over all things in all situations.

And we rarely can define what is for the best since we only see through our
own eyes - and cannot see beyond the motes of dust.
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I have had the experience of losing a loved one to a hospital stay. The local body snatchers (funeral homes) wanted a minimum of $1000. for a direct cremation. We are not insured or financially secure, but after she died, the hospital wrote my wife off as a charity case to the tune of $125k for 3 visits to the ER. I found this service that worked for me. http://www.sciencecare.com/ They took care of everything for no cost to me. The wife and I had discussed this beforehand and when the time came, it made the situation much easier to handle, emotionally and financially. It is a medical whole body donation firm, nationwide.
Wonderful people to work with. A great help when funds are short.
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<If one gets a major illness, how can we protect our savings-net worth for other?>

DH and I consulted with an elder care/asset protection attorney in our state. We now have 3 trusts set up—one with our real estate assets (technically we no longer own our real estate, our son is the trustee), and a testamentary (special needs)trust for each of us. This leaves our retirement accounts that must be spent down, but if one spouse passes, their remaining assets go into a trust for the surviving spouse. We had to separate our assets into “his” and “mine”, and I believe there is a 5 year look back for Medicare/Medicaid purposes. Our goal was to allow the surviving spouse to retain assets so that the government didn’t get them.

DH and I are in our early 60’s; a 78 year old couple in the OP will not have time on their side.

It’s a complicated and expensive process, but we felt that this was the best decision for our asset protection.

Isewquilts2
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I know most of ya'll don't believe this NDE stuff I tell you about but I have read quite a few NDEs where the people describe that while they were out of their body they felt no emotion or attachment to their physical body. They say things like "I felt no attachment to that thing down there." They were told it was not their time and woke up in their bodies even though they would have preferred to stay on the other side.


Art....I think I need to learn more about this??? NDE?

Birgit
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If you choose to go gently into the night, talk to ALL of your family (even that child who really hasn't wanted to talk to you) and TELL them what you what. Don't discuss, don't debate.......tell them exactly what your call is. Put it in writing. They will debate and argue that is not what you wanted until you have been drug through the mud.

I have a paper in my Revocable Trust that states I do NOT want to be kept alive when I should be dying.

Birgit
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"Art....I think I need to learn more about this??? NDE?"- Birgit


NDE stands for "Near Death Experience." The name was coined by Dr. Raymond Moody in his 1975 book "Life After Life." Stories about people who "died" for a few minutes or longer and describe leaving their bodies and floating above and having veridical experiences, seeing the inside of the operating room from the perspective of being on the ceiling, and also traveling to another dimension where they met and talked to their deceased relatives and also a "being of light", and having a "life review", etc. My favorite NDE is Mark Horton's which (to me at least) seems to parallel or corroborate what Michael Talbot wrote about in his book "The Holographic Universe." Quite a few NDEs have a very holographic flavor about them.

If you read the online essay "The Universe as a Hologram", written by Michael Talbot and then go and read Mark Horton's NDE, the connection between them is amazing. There seems to be a lot of consilience between the two.

The Universe as a Hologram - Online essay by Michael Talbot

http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html

Mark Horton's NDE description,

http://www.kuriakon00.com/celestial/nde/mark_horton.htm

Art
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No. of Recommendations: 1
"Art....I think I need to learn more about this??? NDE?"- Birgit


Near death experiences and deathbed visions have been around for thousands of years. Plato, in his book "The Republic" actually tells the story about a soldier named "Er" who died on the battlefield and then 10 days later as they were gathering up the bodies to be cremated Er woke up and described having been in another place. Er also said that he could no longer live as he had been living because the experience had changed him so much.

Deathbed visions and nearing death awareness are experiences that dying people have close to to the time they are dying. They see their deceased relatives and have conversations, saying things like they a deceased loved one is there and they are going on a trip. My two favorite books, written by hospice nurses are "Final Gifts" written by Maggie Callanan and Patricia Kelly, and "Visions, Trips, and Crowded Rooms" written by David Kessler. Both books are excellent and very comforting and uplifting. They are both easy reads and can be read in a couple of days.

Art
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