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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 60452  
Subject: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/18/2009 1:32 PM
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<<WASHINGTON — A Congressional tax standoff has opened a window of opportunity for wealthy Americans determined to avoid paying up post-mortem.


The latest on President Obama, his administration and other news from Washington and around the nation. Join the discussion.



With lawmakers unable to agree on a year-end fix for a quirk in the Bush-era tax cuts, the federal estate tax is set to be repealed for one year as of Jan. 1, meaning that those who suffer a timely death could escape the usual certainty of taxes.

“If you are at the checkout counter, you might want to expedite things,” said Representative Richard E. Neal, the Massachusetts Democrat who heads the House subcommittee on taxation. >>




I'm guessing Tele wont be taking advantage of this opportunity to escape taxes...



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/us/politics/18cong.html?hp...
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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22242 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/18/2009 2:46 PM
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Seattle Pioneer posts, "WASHINGTON — A Congressional tax standoff has opened a window of opportunity for wealthy Americans determined to avoid paying up post-mortem."
-----------------------


After you die you won't care about what happens to your body or any of your "stuff" after you are gone. In fact you will look back on your life here on Earth like it was a "dream in itself." The soul casts off the body like an old worn out suit of clothes and looks back on the body after it leaves with about as much emotion as a butterfly might look back on cocoon.

"I felt an understanding about life, what it was, is. As if it was a dream in itself. It's so very hard to explain this part. I'll try, but my words limit the fullness of it. I don't have the words here, but I understood that it really didn't matter what happened in the life experience, I knew/understood that it was intense, brief, but when we were in it, it seemed like forever. I understood that whatever happened in life, I was really ok, and so were the others here." - excerpt from Michelle M's NDE, http://nderf.org/michelle_m%27s_nde.htm


Artie

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22247 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/18/2009 8:38 PM
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What could be more important right now than permanently ending a tax that's been in effect since World War I and only affects a few percent of estates? The mind boggles.

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Author: CountUptoten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22248 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/18/2009 10:05 PM
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What could be more important right now than permanently ending a tax that's been in effect since World War I and only affects a few percent of estates? The mind boggles.

Once again the super rich have hoodwinked the affluent middle class into thnking this somehow affects them.

Count Uptoten

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22249 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/18/2009 10:26 PM
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C-U:"Once again the super rich have hoodwinked the affluent middle class into thnking this somehow affects them. "

It does.

The rich don't pay estate taxes. They have fantastic tax lawyers, trusts, generation skipping trusts, foundations, life insurance trusts, etc.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet likely won't pay a dime.

It is middle class America that pays.....small business/farm owners.

My mother died. We had to pay the blood sucking feds 55% of part of her estate. She just happened to own real estate (one house) in an expensive place....it costs $70,000 in 1978.......but it ran up the 'value' of the estate over $550,000 which was the limit back in 1999 or so.....and we had to pay the feds the better part of 100K bucks.

My sister kept the summer home.....

I will make sure I don't pay uncle sam a dime if I can help it.....I'll set up a charitable remainder trust or something similar when I hit 70.....with all my assets over the fed limit for estate taxes......

Only the middle class pays estate taxes. The rich never do. You don't seem to get that through your head.

Bill Gates has put his billions into his foundation and taken a TAX WRITEOFF.....

Same for Buffet.

They, their kids will be employed by the foundation with fat VP jobs for their lives - and benefits...and pensions......and their kids and kids and kids......

The wealth will get passed on....

likely there are education trusts and everything else set up, too......

The elites don't think the rules apply to themselves. How many tax cheats does Obama have working for him or in Congress? How many dozen? or it is hundreds? you got it!.....nearly all the lib dems....and his czars.....



t.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22250 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/18/2009 11:04 PM
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What could be more important right now than permanently ending a tax that's been in effect since World War I and only affects a few percent of estates? The mind boggles.
============
Once again the super rich have hoodwinked the affluent middle class into thnking this somehow affects them.



or something.

not sure the AMC really believes it affects them .. they've just been convinced to parrot the wishes of SR ...hoping for crumbs?


=

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22251 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/18/2009 11:09 PM
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What could be more important right now than permanently ending a tax that's been in effect since World War I and only affects a few percent of estates?

As the law stands now, the estate tax disappears for one year only, 2010, and then goes back to 2000 rates. IIRC that's somewhere around a $1 million exemption. Conventional wisdom is that it will settle at about the current level, a $3.5 million exemption. Problem is, Congress can't get out of its own way. The Senate is going to try to clear a bunch of stopgaps Saturday morning to keep the government running since they still haven't done most of their appropriations for the fiscal year that began October 1.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22252 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/18/2009 11:43 PM
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We had to pay the blood sucking feds 55% of part of her estate....
Only the middle class pays estate taxes. The rich never do.


Nonsense. The middle class doesn't leave multi-million dollar estates, only the rich do. YOU didn't pay a dime in estate tx. Your mother's estate paid, and I expect you didn't earn a penny of it so what's the beef? You're not broke. You're very fortunate to get a significant inheritance, most middle class people get little or nothing. My husband got a small bequest from grandparents which he gave to his sister to help pay for her college (hubby paid his own way, helped by a full tuition scholarship). That's the only inheritance he'll ever get. Depending on my mother's health and longevity, I'll get between nothing and 100,000 or so. A small fraction of my savings, and I couldn't care less if it were heavily taxed--it's not my money till the estate is settled and I'll be content with whatever I get. My real bequest from my parents was a good upbringing.

The middle class doesn't have multi-million dollar estates, only the top few percent of Americans do.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22253 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/18/2009 11:46 PM
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The middle class doesn't have multi-million dollar estates, only the top few percent of Americans do.



but the middle class Does like to MUS


=

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22254 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 12:13 AM
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but the middle class Does like to MUS

MUS...Make Up Stuff?

A mouse genus?
A city in Turkey?
A Spanish card game?
The NATO country code for Mauritius?

=alstro, not quite hip

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22255 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 12:50 AM
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With lawmakers unable to agree on a year-end fix for a quirk in the Bush-era tax cuts, the federal estate tax is set to be repealed for one year as of Jan. 1, meaning that those who suffer a timely death could escape the usual certainty of taxes.

This is called the "throw mama from the train" provision. Brilliant political strategy. It got GWB elected twice.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22256 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 12:52 AM
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but the middle class Does like to MUS

MUS...Make Up Stuff?




first try!

"Make Up S****"



(>:

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22257 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 1:15 AM
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first try!

garshamighty!

"Make Up S****"

Well, I'm just too much of a lady to say that (or to ask tele what percent of his portfolio was provided benificently by Mama while he looks down his nose at the riffraff who can't afford health insurance--apparently his middle class upbringing didn't include noblesse oblige, but oddly enough, mine did-).

=alstro, snarky in her insomnia tonight

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22259 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 1:36 AM
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<<I will make sure I don't pay uncle sam a dime if I can help it.....I'll set up a charitable remainder trust or something similar when I hit 70.....with all my assets over the fed limit for estate taxes......>>


I'm with you on avoiding taxes where I can, Tele. But I don't know that I'll go for the tax free opportunity provided next year.


How 'bout you?



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22261 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 2:03 AM
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We had to pay the blood sucking feds 55% of part of her estate...

LOL. Clueless or an intentional deceiver.

55% of part??? Hey. They also paid 0% on part. And since they actually earned 0% of all, I think they must have been pretty lucky.

This is like when the teabaggers claim their income tax rate is what their marginal rate is. They don't understand taxes but that doesn't stop them from whining.

I've got mine, now give me my Momma's too and screw the rest of you.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22262 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 2:12 AM
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We had to pay the blood sucking feds 55% of part of her estate...

LOL. Clueless or an intentional deceiver.


with that phrasing? i go with intentional.
( and insulting )



This is like when the teabaggers claim their income tax rate is what their marginal rate is.


the Teabaggers are mostly clueless


=

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22263 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 8:19 AM
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"Well, I'm just too much of a lady to say that (or to ask tele what percent of his portfolio was provided benificently by Mama while he looks down his nose at the riffraff who can't afford health insurance--apparently his middle class upbringing didn't include noblesse oblige, but oddly enough, mine did-).

=alstro, snarky in her insomnia tonight "


My mother had 2 kids....in my case, it was less than 10% of my portfolio value......

then again, having to pay like 55% on an estate of 650,000 for the last 100K sort of gripes you. What right does Uncle Sam have to estates. My mom was 82. She had a house that had appreciated, and some CDs and some stock. Nothing big time. Let's see....at 4% withdrawal, that gave her all of 24K/yr income. Wow.....and you don't call that middle class?

Again, it hasn't dawned on you that Bill Gates, and Obama, and Buffet aren't going to may more than a dime in estate taxes. Their funds will be donated to their own charities (foundations), or in family trusts, kiddie trusts, grandkiddie trusts, educational trusts, life insurance trusts, and everything else designed to PAY ZERO ESTATE taxes.

Only the middle class pay most of the inheritance tax.

More than half my mom's estate was tied up in a SUMMER HOME on Lake George that the local tax authorities had valued at sky high prices to extract outrageous taxes from the 'summer folks'. The same house in town would have been valued and taxed 90% less. She got screwed while alive and when she died.

0x6a74 "-i doubt he had a Mama"

Typical lib slur....

What else can you say?

Libs are the worst liars of all......do as they say, not as they do.....
either that, or they have their hands out for freebies...."Obama Money! Obama Money!"



t.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22264 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 10:06 AM
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My mom was 82. She had a house that had appreciated, and some CDs and some stock....having to pay like 55% on an estate of 650,000 for the last 100K

I'm not sure I'm following you. The entire estate was worth $650k and was taxed $55,000 on only $100,000 of it? That's less than 10% of the total estate. Why were estate taxes owed on your mother's estate worth under $1MM? It sounds more like a real estate transfer tax--what location was this? IIRC, we paid something like 1% to the city/county when we sold our San Francisco property to semi-retire to South Carolina.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22266 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 11:04 AM
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<<This is like when the teabaggers claim their income tax rate is what their marginal rate is. They don't understand taxes but that doesn't stop them from whining.

I've got mine, now give me my Momma's too and screw the rest of you. >>



Spoken like someone who doesn't anticipate paying any death taxes.


Those who do often resent it. And while the Bush reforms sharply reduced the burden of that tax, it was an unreasonably high percentage of an unreasonably low amount for many years under Democrats, who gleefully gouged families who had savings, investments, businesses or other assets.

Liberals often favor plundering intergenerational transfers of wealth. I do not.




Seattle Pioneer

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22267 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 11:24 AM
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"I'm not sure I'm following you. The entire estate was worth $650k and was taxed $55,000 on only $100,000 of it? That's less than 10% of the total estate. Why were estate taxes owed on your mother's estate worth under $1MM? It sounds more like a real estate transfer tax--what location was this? IIRC, we paid something like 1% to the city/county when we sold our San Francisco property to semi-retire to South Carolina"

In 1999, the exemption was for $550,000 of estate.....above that, it was 55% tax.

There was no real estate transfer tax other than something like $200 deed registration fee in NY.......

The thing that really got me was that it was 55% rate.

Of course, folks like the Kennedies put their real estate in a 'family trust'...the shares are a nominal $1. So if Ted Kennedy dies, his share of the family trust, of maybe 100 shares, is transfered to another family member at a value of $100. Maybe for his 'part' of a 20 million dollar mansion.

No deed transfer tax. No change in ownership.

The 'rich' don't pay estate taxes. Only middle class folks do, and family farms and family or individually owned businesses. Own a few pizza restaurants? Family business...but if in the name of the original owner, on his dead, the family business is destroyed if they can't come up with 'death taxes'......

If you look at the stats for those who actually pay the inheritance tax, it is small middle class folks with assets between 3.5 million and 10 million or so.

Very little comes from those with assets over 10 million. They hire effective estate tax planning folks. It's all passed on tax free.



t.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22268 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 12:39 PM
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In 1999, the exemption was for $550,000 of estate.....above that, it was 55% tax.

Ah, didn't realize this happened that long ago. So you got half of ~$600k? And it's 10% of your stash? Swweet!

folks like the Kennedies put their real estate in a 'family trust'.

Folks like Bushes don't, eh? ;-)

Very little comes from those with assets over 10 million. They hire effective estate tax planning folks. It's all passed on tax free.

If this is so, we should close the loopholes. The only exemptions I like are for family businesses (and then only if a family member is actually running the business, not just collecting the profits and maybe warming a seat on the board a la Waltons) and charitable bequests.

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22269 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 12:56 PM
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LOL. Clueless or an intentional deceiver.

55% of part??? Hey. They also paid 0% on part. And since they actually earned 0% of all, I think they must have been pretty lucky.

This is like when the teabaggers claim their income tax rate is what their marginal rate is. They don't understand taxes but that doesn't stop them from whining.

I've got mine, now give me my Momma's too and screw the rest of you.


Heh. I was going to mention something but thought better of it. He said that he paid close to $100,000 on $550,000. Which is a lot of tax to be sure. But by his own accounting it is a lot less than 55%, and a lower tax rate than if he earned him the money himself by swinging a hammer or otherwise being productive.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22270 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 1:01 PM
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<<Very little comes from those with assets over 10 million. They hire effective estate tax planning folks. It's all passed on tax free.

If this is so, we should close the loopholes. >>


Sure. Right after liberals get done flogging the insurance companies in their health care "reform" legislation, no doubt.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22271 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 1:05 PM
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<<Heh. I was going to mention something but thought better of it. He said that he paid close to $100,000 on $550,000. Which is a lot of tax to be sure. But by his own accounting it is a lot less than 55%, and a lower tax rate than if he earned him the money himself by swinging a hammer or otherwise being productive.>>



Some families have an interest and tradition in passing on some of their wealth to the next generation.

Other families pass on a tradition of collecting welfare benefits from generation to generation.


Personally, I prefer to encourage the first and discourage the second. With liberals, it's often just the reverse.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22272 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 1:47 PM
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and a lower tax rate than if he earned him the money himself by swinging a hammer or otherwise being productive.



the Tax Code HATES those 'productive' people.


(>:

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Author: CountUptoten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22273 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 2:43 PM
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SG: 55% of part??? Hey. They also paid 0% on part. And since they actually earned 0% of all, I think they must have been pretty lucky.

This is like when the teabaggers claim their income tax rate is what their marginal rate is. They don't understand taxes but that doesn't stop them from whining.


55%? Strange. When my parents died, their estate paid no tax whatsoever. Wonder how that came to be?

Count Uptoten

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22274 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 2:46 PM
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55%? Strange. When my parents died, their estate paid no tax whatsoever. Wonder how that came to be?



they must have been really really rich


the Local MUS here is that the really rich have ways around the tax ...



=
55% is beyond strange --but last time i mentioned that my post got yanked.

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Author: CountUptoten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22275 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 3:11 PM
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the Local MUS here is that the really rich have ways around the tax ...

=
55% is beyond strange --but last time i mentioned that my post got yanked.

The word "liar" has been bandied about of late. Is calling a liar a liar yank-worthy?

Count Uptoten

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22276 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 3:20 PM
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55% is beyond strange --but last time i mentioned that my post got yanked.

The word "liar" has been bandied about of late. Is calling a liar a liar yank-worthy?




yup.

interesting system.

... being a liar is OK /calling someone a liar is 'uncivil'


-
.... i'll email you the post <g>

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22277 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 3:31 PM
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"If this is so, we should close the loopholes. The only exemptions I like are for family businesses (and then only if a family member is actually running the business, not just collecting the profits and maybe warming a seat on the board a la Waltons) and charitable bequests."

They are not loop holes.

You seem to be green with 'envy'.

In the same manner as folks set up 529 accounts for their kids, use 'health savings accounts' for their medical expenses....which escape taxation...

or have tax deferred contributions to 401Ks and IRAs, trusts are legal vehicles to sidestep the tax man. At some point, when the trust is liquidated...the taxes will be paid.....maybe 400 years from now....

Just like a corporation doesn't get liquidated every time a single share holder dies.....the 'entity' continues to exist.

You have bad 'wealth envy'.

t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22278 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/19/2009 3:36 PM
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"55%? Strange. When my parents died, their estate paid no tax whatsoever. Wonder how that came to be?



they must have been really really rich "

Obviously, libs can't do math.

If you died with an estate over 550K in 1998 or 99, you paid 55% on that part of the estate over 550K.

If you paid near 100K in taxes, that would have meant the estate was worth not even $750K....about the value of a single 3 bedroom house in many places in MD or NY suburbs or California.......

That means if the kids want to keep their parents house (in the 1990s.)...they would have had to come up with 100K to pay the taxes...if the house was the ONLY thing in the estate.

My sister lives in Gaithersburg...her 3 bedroom house is worth $750K.....the summer place on Lake George NY hit a valuation of $900K....a little 3 bedroom 1700 sq foot house......both are over 30 years old.

It doesn't take much with ONE house to get over a $1 million exemption these days....which is what it will go back to......or lower...if nothing is done....



t.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22312 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 10:28 AM
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You have bad 'wealth envy'.

Actually, I don't. When you grow up as I did without expectations of wealth donated by relatives, you just feel good supporting yourself. It's you, tele, who has wealth envy, demanding inheritance from your parents like the rich & famous get. One might almost say you have an entitlement mentality ;-)

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22318 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 11:24 AM
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"It's you, tele, who has wealth envy, demanding inheritance from your parents like the rich & famous get. One might almost say you have an entitlement mentality ;-)"

Hee hee...

My dad died one year after I moved to TX.....he was 72.....and the last five years of his life, he was in so-so condition. Physically OK...but the heart medicines messed him up...and he died 3 weeks after a botched heart bypass operation. Fortunately he 'retired' early at age 60 on a disability pension from Ma Bell....so he had some good years to live before ailments took over.

My mom then lived by herself for another 10 years or so....she spent six months a year living with me in TX....and 3 months up at the old summer place at Lake George....and 3 months in FL in Briny Breezes FL in a manufactured home. She had SS and part of my dad's pension (survivor benefit), and not a whole lot more - a few CDs and stocks.....but she did OK.....she managed her money carefully - she had grown up during the depression. She got out of high school in 1934, not the best time to graduate, right?

Then she lived through WW2 rationing.....

She clipped coupons furiously, and spent a half hour in the store figuring out what was the best deal......

She died in 1999 thereabouts.....and 2/3rds of the assets were in real estate. My sister wanted to keep the summer house in NY state.....all of 1700 sq feet - 3 bedrooms, no basement.....holding tank for sewerage and water from the lake - no city services there.....no city....nearest town 8 miles away.....

Uncle Sam took a healthy bite out of her small estate.....

She could have lived to 90 or 100....so you need to have something to live on, right? Remember, you SS is based upon what you earned..after you are retired for 20 years......that SS gets to look worse and worse, especially after you went through the 1980s with 15% annual inflation,and SS lagging way behind.

Maybe you should have tried to live on like $9,000 a year in SS?

At the end, taxes and insurance ate up about 30% of her income...between having to have flood and hurricane insurance in FL......on a $40,000 25 year old mobile home...that ran into the thousands a year...and real estate taxes on the small 3 bedroom house that ran $6000/yr.......

Wait until you are 80 years old, and inflation has caught up with you....but your income hasn't...

and then Uncle Sam sock it to you.....with your few hundred thousands in CDs and stocks, that give you enough to live on after you pay your taxes and insurance and medicare part A and B and D......and any medigap insurance...and the deductibles......

Ya gotta be kidding.......

then Uncle Sam thinks it's entitled to a big chunk of the estate? Why?

If she waited to die another 10 years, Uncle sam would not have gotten a dime.

Lib dem left wingers always 'see money' and 'want to tax money'....to redistribute to those who didn't earn it and think they are 'entitled' to it.....

t.

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22323 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 11:47 AM
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"It's you, tele, who has wealth envy, demanding inheritance from your parents like the rich & famous get. One might almost say you have an entitlement mentality ;-)"

Hee hee...
My dad died one year after I moved to TX.....he was 72.....and the last five years of his life, ...

{BIG ol' clip}
...If she waited to die another 10 years, Uncle sam would not have gotten a dime.
Lib dem left wingers always 'see money' and 'want to tax money'....to redistribute to those who didn't earn it and think they are 'entitled' to it.....
t.

-----

Good grief, does that disconnected stream-of-consciousness irrationality reflect your 'thinking' process?

If so, it sure explains a lot of how you leap some giant chasms of logic.


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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22328 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 1:11 PM
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Lib dem left wingers always 'see money' and 'want to tax money'....to redistribute to those who didn't earn it and think they are 'entitled' to it.....

You mean that big honking check we sent to the IRS for our employee stock option gains (dwarfs yo' Mama's estate tax)? Yeah, we just loved handing that over to the Bush Administration for the invasion of Iraq.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22329 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 1:20 PM
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<<You mean that big honking check we sent to the IRS for our employee stock option gains (dwarfs yo' Mama's estate tax)? Yeah, we just loved handing that over to the Bush Administration for the invasion of Iraq.
>>



You want to eliminate capital gains taxes as well as the death tax?



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22331 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 2:21 PM
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"You mean that big honking check we sent to the IRS for our employee stock option gains (dwarfs yo' Mama's estate tax)? Yeah, we just loved handing that over to the Bush Administration for the invasion of Iraq."

You didn't send a single dime that went to the IRaq war. Silly. That money went to pay the entitlement programs of SS, Medicare and welfare.

all that money was borrowed to be paid back by your kids. But Obama borrowed 3 times as much in the first 9 months of his administration, and will borrow 4 times as much as the entire Iraq war costs next year!.....and worse the year after!..

If you were worried about what Pres Bush borrowed to fund the war - you should be worried about Obama borrowing 3 times as much in 9 months alone, and adding 4 times as much next year...and even more the year after.

I've paid over 150K/yr in income taxes....I think it was 1999..the year I retired......had to sell stock options accumulated for 15 years....


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22332 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 2:24 PM
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"You want to eliminate capital gains taxes as well as the death tax? "

Stock options exercise are at 'regular income tax rates'...

My last year at work, I got 49 weeks severance pay in Dec, and had to cash in my stock options....I hit almost almost $350K in income, and the tax brackets were HIGH back then......

Writing a additional check for a LOT of money on top of over $80,000 in taxes taken out...was painful.

Of course....the next year....my income went way down....just unemploymnet.....for six months.....oh, I think I had 3000 in other 'work' income....and naturally some dividends and interest off my savings....


t.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22335 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 5:47 PM
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You want to eliminate capital gains taxes as well as the death tax

Don't want to eliminate either. Well, if our govt had a magic money machine to run on, we could get rid of taxes completely.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22336 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 5:49 PM
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I've paid over 150K/yr in income taxes....I think it was 1999..the year I retired......had to sell stock options accumulated for 15 years

I wish it had only been 150k in 2000 ;-)

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22338 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 6:05 PM
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"I wish it had only been 150k in 2000 ;-) "

What...you don't like following Biden's advice that paying taxes and more taxes and even more taxes is 'patriotic'?

Did you get your money's worth that year?

hee hee...


t.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22355 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/22/2009 10:46 PM
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I've paid over 150K/yr in income taxes....I think it was 1999..the year I retired......had to sell stock options accumulated for 15 years

--
I wish it had only been 150k in 2000 ;-)



i wish i had a year where i MADE 150k


.. not exactly weeping for either of you.



-b
.... but not exactly believing one of you <g>

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22357 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 11:21 AM
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If you were worried about what Pres Bush borrowed to fund the war - you should be worried about Obama borrowing 3 times as much in 9 months alone, and adding 4 times as much next year...and even more the year after.

There is a huge difference between borrowing money to do something unnecessary - like invading Iraq, and borrowing money to do something completely necessary, like save the economy from collapsing.

What...you don't like following Biden's advice that paying taxes and more taxes and even more taxes is 'patriotic'?

Did you get your money's worth that year?


I get my money's worth almost every year. Without those taxes I would not have many of the benefits and privileges that living in America provides. Of course I disagree with much of what is spent, as well, but I don't get a line item veto, so I take the bad with the good. Republicans seem to think it's all bad, but of course that's nonsense, and when in power they seem to forget all about those so-called "core principles" and outspend Democrats wildly, while rewarding their rich friends with huge gifts of money, both directly and indirectly. Bah.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22358 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 11:38 AM
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"There is a huge difference between borrowing money to do something unnecessary - like invading Iraq, and borrowing money to do something completely necessary, like save the economy from collapsing."

Everything we have done for the past 20 years is ONLY about oil. Control of the oil. Keeping the oil in friendly hands.

If Iran gets too uppity, we will be forced to deal with them. Bet on it.

IT's all about keeping the oil in friendly hands. The Saudis have blood on their hands......but they have the oil, and we'll keep the corrupt 'royal family' in power, divvy up hundreds of billions in oil money in their kingdom to keep the oil flowing.....and keep Iraq producing and increasing oil flow.

Without oil, the entire western world collapses...quickly.

You don't get it.....the entire conflict in the Middle East..the 50 plus military bases...aren't there to do anything but insure a flow of Middle East oil to the west and China. Period.

That's why we'll spend a half trillion keeping the oil flow going.

If it stops, western civilization heads for the basement in six months......in 2 months you'd pass the worst of 1932......in six months, you won't want to imagine the horrors.....

Within a year, a billion or more would be dead.



t.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22359 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 1:00 PM
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<<Republicans seem to think it's all bad, but of course that's nonsense, and when in power they seem to forget all about those so-called "core principles" and outspend Democrats wildly, while rewarding their rich friends with huge gifts of money, both directly and indirectly. Bah.>>



Regrettably, both parties seem disposed to spend wildly.

As to rewarding your friends with gifts of public money, we need look no farther than the current health care bill. Democrats are giving lavish gifts to any Senator willing to sell their vote.

The most bitter complaints I hear is that no Republican Senators are willing to sell their votes at whatever the price, at least on this bill.


Really, there is, unfortunately, no moral superiority between the parties on this issue, only moral equivalency.


I do think George Bush deserves some belated recognition by Democrats for his Medicare drug bill in view of the current scene in the Senate. By comparison, it was an elegant bill done in a pretty stylish process.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22360 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 1:48 PM
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SeattlePioneer writes,

I do think George Bush deserves some belated recognition by Democrats for his Medicare drug bill in view of the current scene in the Senate. By comparison, it was an elegant bill done in a pretty stylish process.

What are you talking about? The Frist Amendment to the Medicare Drug bill that banned the Gov't from negotiating drug prices with pharmaceutical manufacturers added more than $100 Billion to its cost.

The money that Senators Nelson, Landreau, Dodd, etc got from the health bill isn't enough to fund one golden parachute for a pharma CEO.

intercst

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22363 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 4:01 PM
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intercst: "The money that Senators Nelson, Landreau, Dodd, etc got from the health bill isn't enough to fund one golden parachute for a pharma CEO."

What was it? 100 milllion for Nelson? 100 million for Dodd.....and 300 million for Landreau.

You want to show us where those golden parachutes were worth half a billion bucks? Please?

And that is the tip of the iceberg....the Cornhusker Kickback goes on FOREVER...and forever....likely hundreds of millions of dollars.....

And who knows what else is in the now 2800 page bill? 2800 pages, of which 2000 plus are porkulus and paybacks and SEIU funding and ACORN funding and union give aways........

The lib dem health bill stinks to high heaven......passing at 1 am in the morning on the snowiest December day in history......


t.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22364 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 4:11 PM
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<<SeattlePioneer writes,

I do think George Bush deserves some belated recognition by Democrats for his Medicare drug bill in view of the current scene in the Senate. By comparison, it was an elegant bill done in a pretty stylish process.

What are you talking about? The Frist Amendment to the Medicare Drug bill that banned the Gov't from negotiating drug prices with pharmaceutical manufacturers added more than $100 Billion to its cost.

The money that Senators Nelson, Landreau, Dodd, etc got from the health bill isn't enough to fund one golden parachute for a pharma CEO.

intercst
>>



I guess I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that it was an elegant bill done in a pretty stylish process compared with the health care bill currently wending it's way through the Congress.

As to the guarantee that the government would pay the usual and accustomed prices for drugs --- that's hardly a surprise.

The same guarantee was made to the AMA when Medicare was being passed by the Congress, and that practice endured until the early 1980s when the Congress started sharply cutting reimbursement rates.

So I don't find that kind of guarantee surprising or offensive.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22368 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 5:33 PM
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Of course, folks like the Kennedies put their real estate in a 'family trust'...the shares are a nominal $1. So if Ted Kennedy dies, his share of the family trust, of maybe 100 shares, is transfered to another family member at a value of $100. Maybe for his 'part' of a 20 million dollar mansion.

No deed transfer tax. No change in ownership.

The 'rich' don't pay estate taxes. Only middle class folks do, and family farms and family or individually owned businesses. Own a few pizza restaurants? Family business...but if in the name of the original owner, on his dead, the family business is destroyed if they can't come up with 'death taxes'......

If you look at the stats for those who actually pay the inheritance tax, it is small middle class folks with assets between 3.5 million and 10 million or so.

Very little comes from those with assets over 10 million. They hire effective estate tax planning folks. It's all passed on tax free.


I find your description of estate taxation highly amusing.

-synchronicity

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22369 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 5:45 PM
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If you paid near 100K in taxes, that would have meant the estate was worth not even $750K....about the value of a single 3 bedroom house in many places in MD or NY suburbs or California.......

Those homes weren't worth that much back then. But you know that, you're just playing fast and loose with the numbers anyway.

BTW, if you're really really that upset with "the really rich" "evading" estate taxes, there are a few issues you could be legitimately upset about. Of course, those same options are available to someone worth a lot less than many millions.

-synchronicity

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22370 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 6:15 PM
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"BTW, if you're really really that upset with "the really rich" "evading" estate taxes, there are a few issues you could be legitimately upset about. Of course, those same options are available to someone worth a lot less than many millions."

For someone who has 20% over the 550K exemption back in 1999, the cost to 'evade the tax man' would have been tens of thousands, setting up trusts...

My BIL's mother set up multiple trusts...and he received trust income, and the kiddies went to college on funds set up in those trusts...... which evaded most taxation...... they've just were liquidated about 3 years ago when the one kid reached 30...still a few bucks left in it.....

Of course, my mother, for most of her life, was below the exemption...suddenly the folks up north found a bonanza taxing the lake front property at about 10 times the rate of non-lakefront property....and the value of her estate went way up.

I'm going to have to take steps to pass things on tax free if the ceiling comes down too low. No sense paying Uncle Sam a giant bite.....


t.

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22373 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 6:50 PM
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Remember, you SS is based upon what you earned..after you are retired for 20 years......that SS gets to look worse and worse, especially after you went through the 1980s with 15% annual inflation,and SS lagging way behind.

Uh, you do know that SS benefits are adjusted upward for inflation every year, right? Right?!?

Really, I'm beginning to wonder how much more you can get incorrect.

-synchronicity

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22374 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 6:56 PM
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For someone who has 20% over the 550K exemption back in 1999, the cost to 'evade the tax man' would have been tens of thousands, setting up trusts...

You need to get yourself a new estate planner.

-synchronicity

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22375 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 7:03 PM
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I do think George Bush deserves some belated recognition by Democrats for his Medicare drug bill in view of the current scene in the Senate. By comparison, it was an elegant bill done in a pretty stylish process.

I've long said that if Congress would simply raised taxes every time it increased spending and coupled decreasing taxes with decreasing spending, we'd pretty rapidly come to a balance of taxes and spending that is acceptable to the American people.

Given that, in my view Medicare Part D was a particularly cowardly piece of legislation. The American public was almost demanding a prescription drug benefit, so passing it was a political no brainer. Congress did something politically very easy by taking something nearly everyone was in favor of and simply skipped the politically difficult--but honest--part of figuring out how to pay for it.

Worse, since they took the coward's way out by not having a way to fund the program, it was easy to make bigger and more bloated than it needed to be and that left plenty of room to hand huge public give-aways to their buddies in the pharmaceutical and insurance industries.

I give credit to G.W. Bush for being political coward, but that's about as far as it goes.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22376 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 7:58 PM
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-synchronicity"Uh, you do know that SS benefits are adjusted upward for inflation every year, right? Right?!?"


Yeah. right...Congress votes themselves a commission which gives them a $3000/yr raise....fed workers in most places and union workers get 2-6% this year by contract..... 2% for fed workers, right?

Medicare costs go up 30-50% for many people next year.....

and SS goes up - well, zero....repeat, zero....let's see, Congress gets a raise..all the fed workers get a raise....all the union workers get a raise...all the state workers get raises.......

During the 1970s and 80s, when the treasury notes hit 15%, the gov't managed to figure out that inflation was only a little bit of that...you were lucky, AFTER THE FACT, to maybe get 2/3rds of that inflation. Remember, energy doesn't count,and what drove that inflation was a doubling of energy prices.

Oh. maybe you just haven't lived that long sync, huh?


"Really, I'm beginning to wonder how much more you can get incorrect."


Anyone other than a union or city pensioner will tell you 'COLAS" rarely keep up with actual inflation.....and often lag it by year or two or three......ie, the inflation goes up, but you don't get a decent compensating COLA for a year later then it goes back down even faster.

Now, energy prices are rising again. Electric rates aren't down but likely up. Municipal utilities always go up since the workers get COLAs regardless....

In the future, I expect SS will rise even slower since the gov't is forking out more than it takes in.....but it is hard to rise slower than zero....and that is the projected increase for the next 3 years...zero each year....

t

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22377 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 8:04 PM
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Anyone other than a union or city pensioner will tell you 'COLAS" rarely keep up with actual inflation.....and often lag it by year or two or three......ie, the inflation goes up, but you don't get a decent compensating COLA for a year later then it goes back down even faster.

Social security benefits are tied to CPI. Now, if you want to argue that the government is "cooking the books" with regards to CPI, so be it, but that's a whole 'nuther argument. And most "COLAs" outside of government are tied to CPI in one way or another, whether directly or not.

You do understand how Social Security benefits are calculated, right? And are you seriously arguing that utilities raise their rates because their workers are going to get COLAs regardless of anything else? Really?

-synchronicity

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Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 8:15 PM
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By the way, on that whole estate planning thing...

You want to know one of the simplest ways to dramatically reduce your exposure to estate taxes? If you're married, have each spouse set up wills (or Revocable Living Trusts if you're in a state with difficult probate and/or want to keep most your stuff private and/or are worried about unsavory relatives contesting your will) that mirror each other and have a "credit shelter trust". Simply put, if at the death of the first spouse the taxable estate is over whatever the lifetime exemption is, that amount can be put into a trust for the benefit of the surviving spouse, and all assets above that can go directly to the surviving spouse.

If the credit shelter trust is drafted correctly (basically, assets to be used for "Health, Maintenance, Education and Support" of the surviving spouse), then those assets will be in the decedent's taxable estate and not in the surviving spouse's estate.

Long story short, each spouse gets to use their lifetime exemption. So you effectively shelter 7M of assets under current law (3.5M per person).

That is very basic estate planning, shouldn't cost more than a couple grand to set up. Don't believe me? Fine, let's aim high and say that it costs almost 10K to have everything drafted (heck, for 10K you should get the whole kibosh: health care powers of attorney, durable power of attorney, pourover wills, and revocable living trusts with credit shelter trusts included in them). I'll go out on a limb and say that someone with 3.5M to 7M in assets can damn well afford to pay on planning an amount equal to that of a decent quality used car.

-synchronicity, poor miser whose last used car purchase was only $2,500.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22379 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 8:18 PM
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"You do understand how Social Security benefits are calculated, right? And are you seriously arguing that utilities raise their rates because their workers are going to get COLAs regardless of anything else? Really?"

Union members get raises regardless....they get a minimum typically of 2-3% PLUS a COLA on top of that.

That's why public sector workers make 40% more than private sector workers...

And why city workers and others can retire after 20 years on fat pensions that go up every year, regardless....it's in the union contract.....


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22380 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 8:20 PM
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great..but after 2010, it goes back to , what, 550,000 exemption?

I'm single so that won't work..and not planning on getting married to not pay the tax man when I die...

t.

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22381 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 8:28 PM
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Union members get raises regardless....they get a minimum typically of 2-3% PLUS a COLA on top of that.

They do? Really? I gotta tell my wife about this, because maybe they can vote out her union and get one that does what you're saying.

-synchronicity, 1.5% to 2.5% COLA with nothing on top.

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22382 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 8:32 PM
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great..but after 2010, it goes back to , what, 550,000 exemption?

If nothing happens at all, 1M. But the Obama administration has already publicly supported an extension of 2009 law indefinitely ($3.5M lifetime exemption, 45% tax on amounts above that). A bill doing just that has already passed the House (Rep. Pomeroy's bill, IIRC). In the Senate, there's apparently a proposal to increase the amount to 5M and possibly reduce the tax. Given that they're...uh, a little busy right now, what will probably happen is that they'll pass a bill "temporarily extending" 2009 law to 2010, then deal with it in detail next year.

FWIW, aside from a very tiny minority in Congress, nobody wants the estate tax to revert to the old 1M/55% levels.

Oh, I forgot the Circular 230 Disclaimer - nothing I say can be taken as tax advice or can save you from IRS penalties, talk to real advisor before implementing anything, and I may be a moron who don't know nothin'.

-synchronicity

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Author: CountUptoten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22383 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 9:03 PM
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<i.You need to get yourself a new estate planner.

-synchronicity

I suspect the person you are talking to is retired early because of inherited wealth. As such he has only a slight grasp of the reality experienced by thals without a legacy inheritance.

Count Uptoten
... Hey, I got about $90K, so that may apply to me as well.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22387 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 10:50 PM
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<<I do think George Bush deserves some belated recognition by Democrats for his Medicare drug bill in view of the current scene in the Senate. By comparison, it was an elegant bill done in a pretty stylish process.

I've long said that if Congress would simply raised taxes every time it increased spending and coupled decreasing taxes with decreasing spending, we'd pretty rapidly come to a balance of taxes and spending that is acceptable to the American people.

Given that, in my view Medicare Part D was a particularly cowardly piece of legislation. The American public was almost demanding a prescription drug benefit, so passing it was a political no brainer. Congress did something politically very easy by taking something nearly everyone was in favor of and simply skipped the politically difficult--but honest--part of figuring out how to pay for it.>>



I thought it was pretty amusing myself.


Democrats had been beating the drum for a Medicare drug benefit, and of course the elderly supported that because they thought they were going to get "free" drugs.

The way it turned out, only the really poor got essentially free drugs. The benefit was pretty sharply means tested with middle class retirees getting stuck paying premiums, co-pays, donut holes and whatever to get them to buy in. So much whining and wailing!


Democrats have made a career out of underfunding their welfare programs, with Medicare being a prime example. George Bush comes along and puts a cherry on top of that mess.

As I understand it, the health care bill has among it's limitless number of provisions. Medicare payroll tax increases on those with high earned income. Not only will these people pay Medicare taxes on limitless amounts of income, but at a higher rate than everyone else!

That's just larding it on. But perhaps it will give yet more incentive for high income people to retire early and greatly cut their tax liabilities.

The Democrat health care bill is perhaps the messiest bill ever. By contrast, Bush got a relatively clean bill and program with the Medicare Part D program. There are certainly things you can complain about, but I think it is a FAR more elegant bill than what is currently being brewed up in Washington.

What is going on in Washington sounds like a legislative abortion, and a partial birth abortion at that.

VERY inelegant. A scandal, really.




Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22388 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/23/2009 11:03 PM
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<<Union members get raises regardless....they get a minimum typically of 2-3% PLUS a COLA on top of that.

They do? Really? I gotta tell my wife about this, because maybe they can vote out her union and get one that does what you're saying.

-synchronicity, 1.5% to 2.5% COLA with nothing on top.
>>


As a gas utility employee, we did quite well.

In the past I've related the wide variety of perqs employees got for working overtime, from double time to dinner money to getting the next day off with pay if you worked till three or four in the morning or later to complete work you got called out to do.

I always thought the reason for that was that utilities HAD TO HAVE skilled employees willing to turn out in the worst of weather and work 24 hours a day when the **** hit the fan. Offering generous perqs as incentives made that happen.

It was one example of where management recognized the wisdom of an old labor song "without our blood and muscle not a single wheel will turn."

When you have some contractor run a 6" drill through a 500 PSI gas transmission line, suddenly that fact becomes real critical!

There were company Vice Presidents who used to complain that hourly employees who liked to chow down on overtime made more than they did.

But gas utility employees didn't have a patch on electrical linemen. Those are the real heroes of the blue collar world. Company management was afraid of those tough guys, and with good reason.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22390 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/24/2009 8:43 AM
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"aside from a very tiny minority in Congress, nobody wants the estate tax to revert to the old 1M/55% levels."

And the slimy lib dems aren't going to vote for 'tax breaks for the rich' in an election year either...


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22391 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/24/2009 8:45 AM
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"I suspect the person you are talking to is retired early because of inherited wealth. As such he has only a slight grasp of the reality experienced by thals without a legacy inheritance."

Who you talking about?


tele got less than 10% of his assets inherited from his mom.....

The rest I earned. And intend to keep as best I can...... and make sure no more than a dime goes to Uncle Sam when I die...


t.

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22392 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/24/2009 11:06 AM
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And the slimy lib dems aren't going to vote for 'tax breaks for the rich' in an election year either...

Huh? Where did this incongruous statement come from, and what does it have to do with what I just said?

-synchronicity, really, the 3.5M/45%-extension of 2009 law thing is already past the House. Obama was supporting it during his 2008 campaign run. It hasn't exactly been a great big secret or anything.

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Author: synchronicityII Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22393 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/24/2009 11:08 AM
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The rest I earned. And intend to keep as best I can...... and make sure no more than a dime goes to Uncle Sam when I die..

Again, no more than a dime is going to go to Uncle Sam anyway, your fears notwithstanding. Unless your net worth goes up substantially (unlikely since you're retired and living off your assets)

-synchronicity

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Author: CountUptoten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22401 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/24/2009 1:30 PM
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tele got less than 10% of his assets inherited from his mom.....

The rest I earned. And intend to keep as best I can...... and make sure no more than a dime goes to Uncle Sam when I die...


t.

Which is it? Your inheritance was taxed at 55% (Meaning it was well over $1 mil.), or you earned most of it. Or you are a serious multi-millionaire.

Count Uptoten

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22403 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/24/2009 2:27 PM
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"Your inheritance was taxed at 55% "

My mom's inheritance was taxed for a part of it at 55%..that over $550,000.

ANd she had more than one kid. So what she had left after taxes got divided multiple ways. And it was way way less than a million.....


"(Meaning it was well over $1 mil.), or you earned most of it. Or you are a serious multi-millionaire."

No..my mom's estate was a little over 700K....and more than 60% of that was real estate......one house at Lake George, NY.....and one $40K mobile home in FL......

And of course, you aren't going to retire at age 52.5 if you don't have at least a million or so in the bank (invested).....that's less than $36,000 a year after taxes....... I was making $100K/yr when I retired.

So a lot of baby boomers if they are going to retire early are going to have well over a million in assets if they expect to have a decent middle class life, and pay for their own health care....and car insurance..and house insurance......and the other stuff you need to live on.

So you must have wealth envy? I haven't heard you go after intercst......why not?

We're all not dependent upon the government wimps...



t.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22404 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/24/2009 2:53 PM
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Which is it? Your inheritance was taxed at 55% (Meaning it was well over $1 mil.), or you earned most of it.



on Planet Pallin, .true.Americans EARN their inheritance.


=

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22405 of 60452
Subject: Re: "Death Tax" About to Die Date: 12/24/2009 3:05 PM
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"on Planet Pallin, .true.Americans EARN their inheritance."

I earned 90% of my assets......

When I die, someone will inherit some money. The rest will bypass the tax man nicely.

Depends upon what the cut off limit is for taxation.....

Then again, once you EARN your money, pay taxes on it once....why should Uncle Sam then demand 55% of it when you die?

Oh...right.....the libs always think they are entitled to your own personal money...money is just 'loaned' to people...but it 'belongs' to the government and they 'allow' you to keep some of it....


t.

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