Message Font: Serif | Sans-Serif
 
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (10) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1660  
Subject: Ramadan Date: 7/21/2012 4:41 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
all the best to those who are observing ... including my daughter.


Dov
Print the post Back To Top
Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1640 of 1660
Subject: Re: Ramadan Date: 7/22/2012 11:13 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Has she reverted?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1641 of 1660
Subject: Re: Ramadan Date: 7/23/2012 12:13 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
no, she's enjoying her first days of being Muslim.

She went to Jerusalem with her mother a few weeks ago and visited the Al Aqsa Mosque. At first they didn't want to let her in, they didn't believe she was a Muslim, but she recited the prayer (in Arabic) and they let her in.

Israel border police don't know quite what to make of her. A girl with a Jewish father, Catholic mother, with relatives in Tel Aviv who'se converted to Islam.

Now she's back in Jordan and taking part in Ramadan. She's always been a bit of an insomniac, and she says a lot of Muslims are up very late on Ramadan eating and enjoying each others company, so she's having fun.

We'll see if it sticks, it's only been a month or two. But so far, she's sticking with it and doing so in a kind of relaxed and natural way.


... kind of mind boggling for me, but I'm not pressuring her about it. It's her life, her path ...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Silencer2480 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1642 of 1660
Subject: Re: Ramadan Date: 7/23/2012 9:59 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
That's an amazing story Dov, care to share more?

Hope everyone is having a good fast.

silencer

Print the post Back To Top
Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1643 of 1660
Subject: Re: Ramadan Date: 7/23/2012 2:07 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
That's an amazing story Dov, care to share more?

Hope everyone is having a good fast.

silencer



my daughter has a Jewish father and a Catholic mother. Her mom was not nearly as attached to her religious identity as I was, so we decided to give my daughter (and son) a Jewish education. They both went to Hebrew school and were both B'nai Mitzvah around 15 years ago. We were in a Reconstructionist congregation.

These days, Reconstructionists have 'tightened up' on that kind of thing, and it is harder to find a Reconstructionist Rabbi who will Bar Mitzvah someone who'se mother isn't Jewish, but back then you could find it.

My daughter was pretty studious, and when the time came, she read from the Torah in front of 100+ friends and family.

But like many (including me) after the Bas Mitzvah she went secular, and liked to party and have fun. She graduated high school and became a waitress. She was VERY independant, moved out, made her own money and lived her own life. She told me many times she didn't feel she was Jewish (funny though, now that she has converted to Islam she tells me she feels MORE Jewish).

Eventually she went back to college and got her Bachelors. She kept waitressing, but decided she wanted to go into 'International Relations' for her career. The joke in my family is that Pilar likes to travel, so she's trying to make that into her career.

After her degree (2 years ago) she took a certification course in English as a second language, and decided she would go teach in South Korea. She got some nibbles from some private schools in Seoul. She had saved some money and decided to go on a trip. Now you have to understand that this young woman has travelled around the world and seen more countries by the time she was 25 than most folks will see in a lifetime.

So, she went to India for three weeks to do Yoga at the foothills of the Himilayas in Rishikesh where the Beatles met Maharaji Mahesh Yogi. She loved the Yoga but didn't like India so much. Then she went on to Dubai and then Jordan. She told me she felt much safer in the Arab countries than she did in India, interestingly enough.

She didn't like Dubai very much but she absolutely fell deeply in love with Jordan. She stayed there for a week and made a number of friends. There are lots of young people in Jordan who long to be westerners, or who feel sympathetic to the west and absolutely hate the Al Queda types, and hate the Mullahs of Iran. That's the crowd she fell in with.

I spoke to several of her new friends via Skype, including a young woman who just graduated from a Jordanian law school and landed an job with a local law firm, and several other young professionals. All lovely young adults, friendly, respectful to me .... and they seemed to adore Pilar.

She then went on to Israel for a few days. She loves Israel too. She did the birthright program when she was around 25 and made lots of friends there too.

Then she came back home and told me she wanted to get a job in Jordan instead of Korea, and that her new friends would help her. I was skeptical, but she actually did land a job teaching third grade at a private school in Amman.

She worked there for a year, and then landed another job (that starts in 3 weeks) with another private school in Amman that is far more prestigious than the first, so she is building her resume for international relations. She is studying Arabic and is almost fluent in speaking, and is working hard to be fluent in writing.

In the year she has been there, she met a young man and they started dating. I've spoken to him and written with him several times, he is a very nice young man and he treats Pilar, as far as I can see, with love and respect. He is also a devout Muslim. Now, he is not a conservative fundamentalist, he hates those people and feel they are destroying Islam. But he does love his religion, he does pray 5 times a day, he does try to keep to Islamic guidelines.

So, now we have a young couple who are seemingly in love who come from backgrounds that couldnt be more different. A Jewish-Catholic American girl with tatoos, an urban attitude, and a fun loving orientation and a local Arab-Muslim boy who hasn't really been more than 50 miles from his home (she's actually seen more of Jordan than he has).

The time bomb here is that he really can't marry a non-Muslim girl. So there relationship has had this Sword of Damocles aspect to it.

She may have been afraid of losing him, and she would have, to both their regrets. So, she started studying Islam with a convert who lives in Amman and after several months, decided that Islam spoke to her. She said the prayer, in Arabic, in front of witnesses, and the deed was done.

Interestingly enough, the prayer is almost identical to the Shema prayer.

Anyway, she says she converted because she felt that she was lead to Islam and that it resonated with her. She is 30 years old now, and she has to decide these things for herself. For me, it's a little bit coincidental that she converted around the time that her relationship with Feras became problematic because she wasnt Muslim. But we all know that all religions tell potential converts not to go into the religion to please a potential spouse. If you do that, what is your attachment to that religion going to be over time?

probably not very strong.

So, I challenged her on that but she claims that she really feels the 'call'.


So .... there are many things I haven't said .... her mother came to visit her and they spent two weeks together in Jordan and Israel. there are stories about going through Israeli security from Jordan into Israel, as an American girl with a Jewish father who is a convert to Islam who has her passport stamped with Egyptian, Lebanese, Jordanian, Dubai visas .... her visit to the Al Aqsa mosque where the Muslim authorities didn't believe this tall American red head was a Muslim, until she recited the prayer to them in Arabic .... and then they allowed her to come in and told her mother she could come in too ... visiting with an Israeli friend who spent years in the IDF ....


For me, well, I married outside the faith (although my second wife is Jewish) and therefore my kids are not considered Jewish by maybe 80% of world Jewry .... but I would be a liar if I didn't admit to some sadness about it.

But, people will do what they will, including my daughter, and I just hope that if this remains her choice, she is doing it for the right reasons and it brings some kind of fullfillment to her life.


Dov

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1644 of 1660
Subject: Re: Ramadan Date: 7/24/2012 11:02 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I've been thinking about what I wrote, and the situation with my daughter and wanted to say a few more things.

When someone converts from one religion to another, there is often shock and upset among the family members. I truly have nothing against Islam. As far as I am concerned, Islam = Christianity = Judaism = Buddhism etc, in the sense that people have a natural tendency to want to see beyond our 'ordinary reality' and that we are spiritual beings.

Objectively, no religion is better than another. Subjectively, it gets more complex.

My daughter is a new convert to Islam. I am a Jew. Most Jews would not view my daughter as Jewish because her mother is not Jewish. My daughter considers herself Jewish though, and now she also considers herself a Muslim.


There are over 2 billion Christians in the world. There are around 1 1/2 billion Muslims.

there are maybe 13 million Jews. The worldwide Jewish population today is just reaching was it was around 1940, having taken over 70 years to recover (numerically) from the Holocaust .... so, when someone converts from Judaism to anything else, is sends kind of a ripple, a shockwave, through the community .... except my daughter isn't halachically Jewish.

It's complicated ....

I've met and known many Muslims in my life, at work, in social settings, and one in particular at this website .... and knowing all these folks just reinforces the notion for me that people are just people no matter what their religion.

My daughters conversion brings up many issues for me as well as for her, issues of my first marriage being an interfaith marriage, issues of loss .... but .... have I really lost anything?

My daughter and I still love each other. I admire her pluckiness, her independance and her courage. Because of her I have met many more Muslims, mostly Jordanians, and they have been so kind and hospitable to me, and understanding.


So, this is rambling. I just wanted anyone reading this to know that I am not angry and do not have any negative feelings towards Muslims because my daughter is a convert .... and lol, she's fine with the whole situation, I am the one wrestling with it.



Dov

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1645 of 1660
Subject: Re: Ramadan Date: 7/25/2012 6:45 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
no, she's enjoying her first days of being Muslim.

In other words, yes, she proceeded with the reversion she was considering. My best wishes to her.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1646 of 1660
Subject: Re: Ramadan Date: 7/25/2012 9:41 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
no, she's enjoying her first days of being Muslim.

In other words, yes, she proceeded with the reversion she was considering. My best wishes to her.


thanks ... I'll pass it on.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: GreatPricePearl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1647 of 1660
Subject: Re: Ramadan Date: 8/14/2012 1:03 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Dov, just read the heartfelt story about your daughter. You are a very tolerant Dad and it reads like you have a tolerant daughter. I commend you both. Truly there is only one God, the God of Love and Truth that we all worship. Your daughter will never lose what you taught her and obviously live.

best, gpp

Print the post Back To Top
Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1649 of 1660
Subject: Re: Ramadan Date: 8/17/2012 1:36 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
thank you

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (10) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement