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Author: Domestique One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 19483  
Subject: Retired tithers Date: 3/15/2000 4:03 PM
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Retired Fooldom:

Do any of you retired Christian or Jewish Fools out there ever wrestle with how to tithe your retirement income? Income coming from investment interest and dividends doesn't pose much of a problem, but what about capital gains?

I don't want to get into any arguments about how you define the tithe - just wonder how you apply your own definition to your sources of retirement income.

I'm assuming, of course, that the current market doesn't continue making the issue moot!

Dave Ayers, aka Domestique
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Author: DoktorDi Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 2918 of 19483
Subject: Re: Retired tithers Date: 3/15/2000 5:59 PM
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<<Do any of you retired Christian or Jewish Fools out there ever wrestle with how to tithe your retirement income? Income coming from investment interest and dividends doesn't pose much of a problem, but what about capital gains?>>

This is an interesting question for me. I just retired and have been trying to figure this one out. Pre-retirement, I tithed on my gross salary for my main salary. I also tithed on capital gains prior to figuring the tax. The only income I tithed on net income was from royalties, honoraria and book sales for which I sometimes had substantial business expenses such as travel and book purchases.

Now that I'm retired, my pension is from pretax dollars so will tithe the same way I did on my preretirement salary. The cap gains and outside income is the same as before retirement (I haven't retired yet as a writer and speaker). I'm not taking social security yet and haven't figured out how to handle that.

I'll be interested how others (yourself included, Dom) are handling their tithe, esp. social security.



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Author: ginnigv Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 2926 of 19483
Subject: Re: Retired tithers Date: 3/15/2000 11:59 PM
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Noah Webster's original dictionary defines "tithe" as "the tenth part of anything." Down through the years it has been construed materially. Since life is basically mental, one can consider giving a tenth part of thought to constructive things, a tenth part of time to worthwhile activities, or a "tenth part of anything" that is productive. (My preference is a tenth part of every day in prayer for the betterment of world conditions.)Be creative and vary your tithes for a more interesting and rewarding retirement!

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Author: oldbones Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 2927 of 19483
Subject: Re: Retired tithers Date: 3/16/2000 2:00 AM
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Domestique:

You posed an interesting question regarding how to determine a fair tithe. The following works very well for me and is rather easy to do. I like simple.

The Adjusted Gross Income on my 1040 is the figure on which I base a full tithe. I pay tithing each month on my pensions gross and social security gross and then make any adjustment necessary when I file my tax return. Thus, any interest, dividends, capital gains, expenses or losses is accounted for in the AGI.

IRA/401-K distributions will be tithed on the gross amount received and the AGI principle will still be applied.

Hope this helps.

Frances

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Author: Domestique One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 2935 of 19483
Subject: Re: Retired tithers Date: 3/16/2000 11:42 AM
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This is an interesting question for me. I just retired and have been trying to figure this one out. Pre-retirement, I tithed on my gross
salary for my main salary. I also tithed on capital gains prior to figuring the tax. The only income I tithed on net income was from
royalties, honoraria and book sales for which I sometimes had substantial business expenses such as travel and book purchases.

Now that I'm retired, my pension is from pretax dollars so will tithe the same way I did on my preretirement salary. The cap gains
and outside income is the same as before retirement (I haven't retired yet as a writer and speaker). I'm not taking social security yet
and haven't figured out how to handle that.

I'll be interested how others (yourself included, Dom) are handling their tithe, esp. social security.


DoktorDi (and others)

Tithing is something each of us has to wrestle out for ourselves, and each of us has a different set of circumstancs, different relationships with our Maker, etc., but here is where I am at the moment on the tithe. As the saying goes, your mileage may vary... .

A business I co-founded in 1970 was sold in an all-cash transaction in 1989. The proceeds for my wife and I were in the low seven-figures. God blessed the business and prospered us, for which we praise Him. In 1992, I started an Internet service provider business, on a very small scale, and just last month we sold to a larger ISP for cash. I am 68 and my wife 66, so I guess we can call ourselves genuine Retired Fools now.

At the time we received the proceeds from each business sale, we tithed the gross proceeds as a one-time gift to the church and other Christian charities. That was pretty much a no-brainer.

The remaining assets are invested almost entirely in marketable fixed-income and equity securities. I arbitrarily define "income" from these investments as 3% of the total valuation on December 31 each year, an amount that I plan to use to supplement our other sources of income, which are a modest pension, a small annuity, and social security. The 3% should be easily covered by interest and dividend income throughout the year. The corpus of our Foolish investments should remain untouched except for special disbursements such as gifts to the kids or unusual medical expenses. So we are tithing our investment income, pension, annuity, and social security.

This leaves two open questions: Should we tithe on money gifted or on major medical expenses, and when do we tithe capital gains. I think capital gains are not income until realized, so they do not enter into the tithe amount.

Life sure gets complicated when one retires and starts living off savings and such, but I thank God for the complication!

Am I helping anyone or just sharing my own confusion?

Dave Ayers, aka Domestique




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Author: Domestique One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 2936 of 19483
Subject: Re: Retired tithers Date: 3/16/2000 11:47 AM
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Noah Webster's original dictionary defines "tithe" as "the tenth part of anything." Down through the years it has been construed
materially. Since life is basically mental, one can consider giving a tenth part of thought to constructive things, a tenth part of time to
worthwhile activities, or a "tenth part of anything" that is productive. (My preference is a tenth part of every day in prayer for the
betterment of world conditions.)Be creative and vary your tithes for a more interesting and rewarding retirement!


Thanks for your comments, ginnigy. Regardless of what Noah Webster says, it ain't easy to apply, as you so aptly put it. I have never figured out how a "tithe" of my time figures in. I guess we consider our time as a gift over and above the financial tithe.

I especially like your idea of a tenth part of each day in prayer. Makes a good Lenten resolve.

Dave Ayers, aka Domestique

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Author: Domestique One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 2937 of 19483
Subject: Re: Retired tithers Date: 3/16/2000 11:52 AM
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You posed an interesting question regarding how to determine a fair tithe. The following works very well for me and is rather easy to
do. I like simple.

The Adjusted Gross Income on my 1040 is the figure on which I base a full tithe. I pay tithing each month on my pensions gross and
social security gross and then make any adjustment necessary when I file my tax return. Thus, any interest, dividends, capital gains,
expenses or losses is accounted for in the AGI.

IRA/401-K distributions will be tithed on the gross amount received and the AGI principle will still be applied.

Hope this helps.

Frances


Hi Frances,

As you can see from an earlier reply, this is sort of the way we do it, leaving unrealized gains to do their thing until sold. Thanks for your help.

Dave Ayers, aka Domestique

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Author: DoktorDi Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 2940 of 19483
Subject: Re: Retired tithers Date: 3/16/2000 2:50 PM
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A moment out to smile...

If you tithe a tenth of your day in prayer, do you base it on the total hours in the day or a tenth of the hours you're awake. <g>

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