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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 10534  
Subject: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/13/2012 1:31 AM
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RM, you asked about floor standing speakers and the why of them. I really didn’t answer your question so this.

First, nomenclature: while we say ‘speaker’ referring to the speaker box what the boxes contain are more properly called ‘transducers’ (able to convert an electrical signal to mechanical motion). Your system doesn’t really have 7.1 speakers but 15 ‘transducers’.

If we ask a single speaker to handle say 40-20,000 Hz the sound is garbled: high and low frequencies intermesh and neither is clear. So we divide the incoming signal into two with the highs separated to a smaller speaker and the lows to the larger. That’s a typical bookshelf speaker: one high frequency transducer and one low.

So since a transducer works best with a limited frequency range, a floor-standing speaker with say three larger and one smaller transducers sends the highs to the smaller and divides the lower frequencies so each of the three larger transducers are given a separated signal: one may be 100-700, the other 700-1300, and the last 1300 to where the tweeter takes over – which could be 1800-20,000.

The sub has one speaker because it is assigned 30-150 Hz.

So the essentials of a floor-standing speaker is just that said above. What makes a difference in floor-standing speakers is the quality of the transducers, the efficiency of the crossover electronics, and cabinet construction. Your center speaker is a good example of better construction and internal crossover.

MichaelR
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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9917 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/15/2012 10:46 AM
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Thanks Michael, interesting and i bet some nice floor standers would sound really great in this room but, alas, it's not to be. :-)

I'm still pretty happy with things the way they currently stand. Though, I sure wouldn't mind a slightly larger TV, say a 55"... maybe, when this one has seen better days. I know it would fit the space, we'd just have to slide the tall cabinets a bit more to each side and voila!

But I am still amazed how well my kluged speaker set up sounds, I have yet to crank the AVR up past -15.0 dB for movies. I may have to try it a bit higher (lower?) while DH is at deer camp and see what it's like. I am still tempted to buy the matching Atlantic Tech surrounds though. If I did I probably ought to do it before Hal gets around to hanging the others up off the beams...

RM

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9918 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/15/2012 10:51 AM
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-15 dB??

If I did that on my system I'd probably go deaf (and lose a lot of glass). My across-the-street neighbors could hear that.

I can listen at -35dB comfortably (it's quiet, but fine). Typical is about -31 dB. When I want to fill the room I go to about -26-28 dB. That's, ummm, powerful. I don't know that I've ever gone above -25 dB.

1poorguy

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9919 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/15/2012 1:10 PM
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You may not remember, my HT is in the ubiquitous "great room" with cathedral ceiling, walls and ceiling covered in knotty pine, huge stone fireplace. I suspect a lot of the sound gets sucked out into the void. ;-)

For the heck of it I just turned on the TV and set it to -35.0. Yeah, I can hear it just fine, but I like about -28 for normal TV shows. The -15 is just for movies. Definitely a little too loud for TNT, for instance, just tried it.

And for the heck of it, I've put it on music; 7 channel stereo, and one of those Directv music channels, Got it up to -9.5 and seems a bit quiet. Fleetwood Mac is playing. Let's try another setting, good old 2 channel stereo output on my trusty old Boston Acoustic CR8s, does -1.5 very comfortably. Could go higher, um +1 is quite nice but I'll turn it down to make the dogs happier. -7.5 should do.

:-)

RM

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9920 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/16/2012 2:50 AM
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-15 dB??

If I did that on my system I'd probably go deaf (and lose a lot of glass). My across-the-street neighbors could hear that.

I can listen at -35dB comfortably (it's quiet, but fine). Typical is about -31 dB. When I want to fill the room I go to about -26-28 dB. That's, ummm, powerful. I don't know that I've ever gone above -25 dB.

1poorguy
_____________________________________________________________________

For the heck of it I just turned on the TV and set it to -35.0. Yeah, I can hear it just fine, but I like about -28 for normal TV shows. The -15 is just for movies. Definitely a little too loud for TNT, for instance, just tried it.

And for the heck of it, I've put it on music; 7 channel stereo, and one of those DirecTV music channels, Got it up to -9.5 and seems a bit quiet. Fleetwood Mac is playing. Let's try another setting, good old 2 channel stereo output on my trusty old Boston Acoustic CR8s, does -1.5 very comfortably. Could go higher, um +1 is quite nice but I'll turn it down to make the dogs happier. -7.5 should do.

:-)

RM


RM: The differences between your system and 1poorguy’s is speaker efficiency. Not there’s anything wrong with yours yet 1poorguy’s take less power to achieve a particular volume effect at the speakers. Your setting could be, say,-25 dB and his likewise – and sitting in his HT you would say, ‘Gawd Maude, that’s loud!” and it would be while in yours acceptable.

There’s another factor: loudness and volume. Both you and 1poorguy have good amps where the master grain control effect both volume and loudness.

Short digression. Volume is sound pressure measured in decibels; loudness is the control for compensation of frequencies (equalization) that alters with volume. When volume increases the loudness control decreases bass and emphasizes treble. And, yes, there is a sweet point: an SPL meter reading of 85 dB (THX standard). For most that’s too loud and that’s why Yamaha has ‘quiet listening’ circuits for late night listening. This circuit is a loudness control that gives a better equalization when the volume is set low.

But back to speaker efficiency. Lots has been written about this but it boils down to how many decibels output for wattage input. Get 95 dB for 100 Watts is better than 75 Db for 100 Watts. In practice it is relatively meaningless since turning up the volume to 95 dB is easily done (and scare the pets). Yes, the Ohm rating of a speaker figures in there but since the nominal Ohm rating is either 8 or 4 and that shifts rapidly upward with increase in volume the math is staggeringly complex.

One last: the room. 1poorguy’s is full of angles while yours. RM. Is a Bavarian Hunting Lodge. Both are widely different and that difference can also be expressed in usable volume coming from the speakers. Larger rooms have more reverb and while that can be problematic it does allow for higher db settings for listening.

RM, theose Boston Acoustics CR8’s are the most efficient speakers you have. That’s why they handle the volume/loudness so well.

MichaelR

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9921 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/16/2012 6:24 PM
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But back to speaker efficiency. Lots has been written about this but it boils down to how many decibels output for wattage input. Get 95 dB for 100 Watts is better than 75 Db for 100 Watts. In practice it is relatively meaningless since turning up the volume to 95 dB is easily done (and scare the pets). Yes, the Ohm rating of a speaker figures in there but since the nominal Ohm rating is either 8 or 4 and that shifts rapidly upward with increase in volume the math is staggeringly complex.
..
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RM, theose Boston Acoustics CR8’s are the most efficient speakers you have. That’s why they handle the volume/loudness so well.


Okay... still scratching my head here. I can't remember what 1poorguy has for speakers so I can't look up the specs. However, I can for mine, and to compare apple to apples, I've also got the specs of the Atlantic Techs that match the center I bought. (and those specs are identical to the center's just mounted horizontally.)

Boston Acoustic CR8 1 1" tweeter 1 7" woofer

Frequency response 48-20,000 Hz
Rec Amp Power 12-125 watts
nom Impedance 8 ohms
Sensitivity 90 dB
Crossover Freq 3000 Hz



Atlantic Technology 2200 1 1" tweeter 2 4.5" woofer

Frequency response 90-20,000 Hz
Rec Amp Power 10-140 watts
nom Impedance 8 ohms
Sensitivity 90 dB
Crossover Freq 3500 Hz

Okay, is there any way to tell how efficient one is over the other? Or as the specs are so similar is comparing these two not useful? I see that the AT has smaller but two woofers compared to the BA's single one. Does that sort of thing make a difference? I do notice when looking at photos of floor standers they often have multiple woofers (which I believe you touched on in a previous post, referring to them having different frequency responses.)

As the 2 woofers in the ATs have the same frequency response, I can infer a couple possibilities, that either they used two to keep the box dimensions small, or 2 is better than one even if they are smaller? Does something weird happen as in total diameter making a difference?

Also can speakers (transducers?) get tired?

RM - full of questions

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9922 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/16/2012 10:09 PM
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Okay, is there any way to tell how efficient one is over the other? Or as the specs are so similar is comparing these two not useful? I see that the AT has smaller but two woofers compared to the BA's single one. Does that sort of thing make a difference? I do notice when looking at photos of floor standers they often have multiple woofers (which I believe you touched on in a previous post, referring to them having different frequency responses.)

As the 2 woofers in the ATs have the same frequency response, I can infer a couple possibilities, that either they used two to keep the box dimensions small, or 2 is better than one even if they are smaller? Does something weird happen as in total diameter making a difference?

Also can speakers (transducers?) get tired?

RM - full of questions


Both speakers have a sensitivity of 90dB done by putting in 2.83 volts (1 Watt at 8 Ohms) and having a mic one meter away measuring the speaker’s output in dB. That’s the technical jargon. What it means is a 90 dB sensitivity give more sound pressure than one at 60 dB.

Note: this isn’t a measurement of frequency response, volume and loudness control or the number of transducers or their size in a speaker. It’s more a rating on how the speaker was constructed (number of coil windings, the gauss strength of the magnet, etc.).

Speaker sensitivity had an importance when amps had limited Wattage however, today with amps churning out 100 W and more, not as much. Manufacturers still include the rating but in the real world (as opposed to measuring in a sonically dead room) amp power can overcome a low rating. It is a tad important when running multiple speakers as in 7.1 and up but even then most modern amps can handle the load.

Do speakers get old? They age. Some of the parts dry out (especially the foam surrounds holding the speaker in older designs) but otherwise they hold up well. Of all parts of a system that are replaced in upgrading speaker are usually last. I have, in my second downstairs system, speakers that are 30-odd years old and they’re still good.

MichaelR

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9923 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/17/2012 12:22 AM
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I got lucky...here are the specs (scroll down just a bit):

http://911manuals.com/product_info.php/products_id/222766

Sensitivity is 102 dB. Range of 29-27K Hz.

I love my speakers...I got so lucky spotting them on ebay. I will die with them, and leave them to 1poorlady and then 1poorkid.

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9925 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/17/2012 1:08 AM
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Sensitivity is 102 dB. Range of 29-27K Hz.

I love my speakers...I got so lucky spotting them on ebay. I will die with them, and leave them to 1poorlady and then 1poorkid.

1poorguy


Figured as much since your description of volume levels. Nice. Earlier today I cranked my system to levels I haven’t done before: -7 dB. Far too loud to enjoy. The amp and speakers could handle it and did so without distortion yet that level is way about the normal of about -30 dB or so. Scared the cats, though.

Ipoorguy, dear friend and compatriot, don’t decide on the disposition of your SM-155s until you’ve received my financial contribution to the family.

Your drooling friend,

MichaelR

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9927 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/17/2012 2:08 AM
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I'd be surprised if your setup wasn't as good or better in terms of sensitivity and range, Michael. You're a connoisseur. If you couldn't find what you want, you'd build it yourself (and I seem to recall you did!).

1poorguy

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9929 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/17/2012 11:17 AM
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Some of the parts dry out (especially the foam surrounds holding the speaker in older designs) but otherwise they hold up well.

That I know, I lost my AR18s to dry rot in the woofers. These were the ones the BA CR8s replaced. (still have them boxed somewhere in the basement though, can't seem to throw old equipment out!)

So in comparing the specs of the ATs to by BAs, I assume they are roughly equivalent then? Replacing the BAs with the ATs to match the center wouldn't really make any sense? I ask merely because they dropped $20 bucks for the pair this week. I really would prefer if the surrounds dropped in price, replacing the CR6s with those might make more sense.

RM

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9930 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/17/2012 4:02 PM
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I'd be surprised if your setup wasn't as good or better in terms of sensitivity and range, Michael. You're a connoisseur. If you couldn't find what you want, you'd build it yourself (and I seem to recall you did!).

1poorguy


Actually I have relatively average speakers rated at 90dB (most expensive was the Paradigm floor standing speakers at $1500 the pair).The remaining 13 speakers are about average cost in their range – at about, roughly, $5-800 a pair.

What I am big on is amp power. Speaker sensitivity was more important back in the day when amps were about 50 watts max but the present Yamaha Z-11 A/V churns out a total of 1180 watts (140x7, 50x4) and can drive the speakers (eight Ohm) easily. Since it takes double the amplification to raise the volume -3dB, I have lots of headroom with the Z-11.

I haven’t built speakers in years (other things sorta got in the way) but if I were I have a design: hollow concrete spheres with a full frequency transducer mounted in an opening of the sphere. In effect large Helmholtz resonators.

MichaelR

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9932 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/17/2012 4:30 PM
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So in comparing the specs of the ATs to by BAs, I assume they are roughly equivalent then? Replacing the BAs with the ATs to match the center wouldn't really make any sense? I ask merely because they dropped $20 bucks for the pair this week. I really would prefer if the surrounds dropped in price, replacing the CR6s with those might make more sense.

RM


I have two hard and fast rules about speakers: but for the center always buy in pairs and get speakers having as broad a frequency range as possible (at least 80-20,000 Hz) especially for surrounds even though the wattage for these speakers is less than for mains.

If the price is right, get the speakers.

MichaelR

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9934 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/17/2012 8:22 PM
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In effect large Helmholtz resonators.

Why do you want the air oscillating in/out of the cavity, possibly in conflict with what the speaker is trying to do? It is basically a damped harmonic oscillator, but as that is fading the cone is trying to push the next tone. I would think it would get messy in home audio.

But the concrete makes sense...no vibration/rattle/reverb from the cabinet. (Right?)

1poorguy

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9935 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/17/2012 11:26 PM
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In effect large Helmholtz resonators.

Why do you want the air oscillating in/out of the cavity, possibly in conflict with what the speaker is trying to do? It is basically a damped harmonic oscillator, but as that is fading the cone is trying to push the next tone. I would think it would get messy in home audio.

But the concrete makes sense...no vibration/rattle/reverb from the cabinet. (Right?)

1poorguy


I’d tune port (several of varying lengths) and seal the speaker (s). It’s all theory now. There are some spherical speakers on the market and I like them but, for me, I’d like to design the ultimate speaker having no standing waves (and round does that).

Problem with round Helmholtz containers is each has a prime frequency the unit resonates to. The absurd answer is having a speaker per single frequency (so would need 20,000 speakers to cover the hearing range). Now that would be a crossover nightmare!

I have a design that is a parabolic cross-section and made of concrete. Stands about four feet tall and has one speaker and is for midrange. That is also on my ‘I really should get off my ass and do something’ list.

Isn’t your degree in physics?

MichaelR

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9938 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/18/2012 12:59 PM
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always buy in pairs and get speakers having as broad a frequency range as possible (at least 80-20,000 Hz) especially for surrounds even though the wattage for these speakers is less than for mains.

Ah, but since my current mains have a FR of 48-20,000 Hz and the newer ATs would have only 90-20,000 Hz it sounds like I should keep the BA CR8s as my mains.

Checking the AT surrounds, they also are 90-20,000 while the CR6s I am already using are 65-20,000 Hz. The only thing the ATs have going for them is the ability to switch between dipole and bipole.

Or perhaps I should be looking at a different brand for the surrounds.

RM

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9939 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/18/2012 3:46 PM
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Ah, but since my current mains have a FR of 48-20,000 Hz and the newer ATs would have only 90-20,000 Hz it sounds like I should keep the BA CR8s as my mains.

RM

Depends on the tonality of the speakers. I’d keep the current mains if they’re more ‘tonal’ than another set.

Checking the AT surrounds, they also are 90-20,000 while the CR6s I am already using are 65-20,000 Hz. The only thing the ATs have going for them is the ability to switch between dipole and bipole.

Surrounds are better dipole/bipole because of dispersion of sound. However, with the room you have you may be better off keeping what you have what with the high reverb of the room.

MichaelR

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9940 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/18/2012 4:11 PM
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Isn’t your degree in physics?

Yes. Though I haven't had to deal with anything like this in 20 years. Been working semiconductors. (And even 20 years ago I was doing astro-physics, not acoustics.)

But the Helmholtz gives you the initial compression wave, creating a lower pressure in the cavity so air comes back in until pressure in the cavity is higher than outside at which point the air flows out again. A damped oscillator. I would think that would create an echo, and interfere with the next compression wave the cone throws out.

1poorguy

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9941 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/18/2012 7:14 PM
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But the Helmholtz gives you the initial compression wave, creating a lower pressure in the cavity so air comes back in until pressure in the cavity is higher than outside at which point the air flows out again. A damped oscillator. I would think that would create an echo, and interfere with the next compression wave the cone throws out.

1poorguy


It does and that’s the reason there’s large speakers that can handle the compression stroke. However, that energy can be used when the speaker is ported. In smaller air-tight speakers the back stroke is not used for bass response but to act as a return spring activating the transducer.

No matter the shape a speaker cabinet is a resonant cavity. It can be broken up by having separate transducer-tuned housings within the cabinet and a port (or extended horns) on the larger speaker(s). Bose and Klipsch both port with folded cones and defined transducer space.

My imagined speaker is an orb because I like to experiment with systems that reduce standing waves (those occurring within a speaker) and a further examination of porting. I wonder what if instead of one tuned port there are several, say, ten or more.

Semi-conductors, eh? Made me realize the amps I built in the 60s were before this. Speakers I may get to but amp construction – never again.

MichaelR

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9942 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/18/2012 10:18 PM
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Semi-conductors, eh? Made me realize the amps I built in the 60s were before this. Speakers I may get to but amp construction – never again.

There are those who insist that the response from tubes can't be beat. IIRC, they order their tubes from Russia because it's one of the few places you can still find them.

It would be bulkier, but I don't see why it couldn't be done if you wanted to. Just allow for cooling. :-)

1poorguy

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9943 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/19/2012 1:15 AM
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Semi-conductors, eh? Made me realize the amps I built in the 60s were before this. Speakers I may get to but amp construction – never again.

There are those who insist that the response from tubes can't be beat. IIRC, they order their tubes from Russia because it's one of the few places you can still find them.

It would be bulkier, but I don't see why it couldn't be done if you wanted to. Just allow for cooling. :-)

1poorguy


Tempting thought but while I have heard some really good tube amps I think that phase of me is over. Fun while it lasted but the matching of amp and speakers got too time consuming. I built triode amps (last was a humongous 35 watts) and matching the speaker sensitivity to it was hairy (went through several stereo sets before deciding).

However, building tube amps did teach me something: cats love getting on top of them for the heat. That and small children love pulling out tubes because they can.

I have a lot of vinyl left over from those days (despite several moves) and have a decent enough turntable that when I go through the Yamaha amp I enjoy them – especially since the amp upconverts stereo to ‘all speakers driven’. I guess saying that means I am not a purist. Don’t care.

MichaelR

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9945 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/22/2012 12:36 AM
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Actually I have relatively average speakers rated at 90dB (most expensive was the Paradigm floor standing speakers at $1500 the pair).

It occurs to me that the page I linked showed the wiring diagram for the 155s. You could make your own if you wanted. The only variable would be the cones, which you can buy from Infinity (I bought my tweeters from them when one of the originals died).

I think you of all people would appreciate them, and I'm guessing you'd get a kick out of doing it too! ;-)

1poorguy

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9947 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/22/2012 1:45 AM
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I think you of all people would appreciate them, and I'm guessing you'd get a kick out of doing it too! ;-)

1poorguy


As I said, tempting but now halfway through my 70s getting all the stuff needed would be a chore. Plus finding the space. Each year older I get, it seems to be less and less: now half the garage is stuffed with boat stuff.

A few years ago I had the opportunity to invest in a speaker company. The owner/designer wanted to quit the whole shebang and I could have bought his factory but I didn’t. Reason: I saw speaker design, but for a few models that were ahead of the curve (such as the SM-155 and kin), was rapidly changing and while I could have produced speakers (at $10.000 a pair) I would have the devil’s job keeping up with companies such as Infinity and PSB. Plus I knew the demand for speakers would be those low-priced enough to afford having Dolby AC3 (remember that?).

Sidebar: I once rebuilt an aircraft. A PZL Cobra super ship (40-1 glide ratio) sailplane. I have strict instructions to Elly: if I ever say I am going to do that again she is to put a gun to my head and pull the trigger.

She might do that if I say I am back building speakers.

MichaelR

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Author: Razz037 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9949 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/22/2012 3:21 PM
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I just wanted to chime in and say; I love my Klipsch Synergy series 3 speakers. They'rrrre great from the lows to the highs. I opted for the sub12s instead of the one listed with the S3 series.

Razz

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9950 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/22/2012 10:19 PM
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I just wanted to chime in and say; I love my Klipsch Synergy series 3 speakers. They'rrrre great from the lows to the highs. I opted for the sub12s instead of the one listed with the S3 series.

Razz


Craig, did you get the floor-standing F-3s or the stand supported speakers?

And what amp at what power?

MichaelR

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Author: Razz037 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9968 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/26/2012 4:19 PM
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I have the floor standing fronts. I have an Onkyo TX-SR605 or 606 I have to look when I get home.

Razz

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Author: Razz037 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9970 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/26/2012 7:55 PM
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Yeah, it's been a while since I looked and it turns out it is the Onkyo TX-SR705

Razz

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9971 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/26/2012 8:19 PM
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Yeah, it's been a while since I looked and it turns out it is the Onkyo TX-SR705

Razz


Why I asked is because the Klipsch speakers you have are rated at a sensitivity of -92 dB and with that you really don’t need huge wattage to make them work. The Onkyo you have puts out 100W/c and I’ll bet you don’t ever have it at higher volumes (unless you’re interested in shattering small ornaments).

MichaelR

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Author: Razz037 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9972 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/26/2012 9:27 PM
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Correct. I have very good sound at low to moderate sound levels, but I like the option of cranking it up once and a while. I used to have a Bob Carver amp (M-400a)and preamp (CT-6) for the sound and have moved them to my big barn along with my speaker lab speakers I built (my design) back in 1979 and 1981 when I was just a teen.

Razz

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9973 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/27/2012 2:47 AM
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Correct. I have very good sound at low to moderate sound levels, but I like the option of cranking it up once and a while. I used to have a Bob Carver amp (M-400a)and preamp (CT-6) for the sound and have moved them to my big barn along with my speaker lab speakers I built (my design) back in 1979 and 1981 when I was just a teen.

Razz


Now there’s a blast from the past. Carver made some good amps and pre-amps. They were a tad finicky if the speakers were mismatched but the unit did deliver good clean power. Don’t hear much about Carver these days (or I don’t move in those circles) but back in the 80s they were considered Real Good.

MichaelR

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Author: Razz037 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9974 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/27/2012 10:40 AM
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I think you would appreciate the Bob Carver Cherry 180 Monoblocks at $7400.

www.bobcarver.com/

Razz

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9975 of 10534
Subject: Re: RM: Floor-standing speakers Date: 11/27/2012 8:57 PM
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I think you would appreciate the Bob Carver Cherry 180 Monoblocks at $7400.

www.bobcarver.com/

Razz


I think if I had continued with stereo equipment as I was in my 20s then having Carver amps would be high on the list. Back then I was heavily into tube amps and built several so extending that wouldn’t have been hard. However, this thingy with multiple speakers got a hold and that developed into amps with more than stereo. And that lead to surround sound. And look where that took me: a 13.2 home theater.

MichaelR

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