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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 10547  
Subject: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/5/2012 8:39 AM
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Hi guys! *waving*

My home theater has been languishing

Two years ago y'all helped me acquire a very nice LCD TV, the the LG520 http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-42LD520-lcd-tv . We also talked of how to change my speakers around for better sound. As DH loves movies you would think he'd be interested in improving the sound as well, but I couldn't interest him in re-arranging anything, he seemed content to putter along with the new TV and the current mismatched speaker "system".

Not even when the puppy, who is now 19 months old, chewed through the rear speaker wires did he budge an inch. (wires are still chewed) Nor when the old semi-broken stereo speaker used as the center speaker bit the dust (though it could be the feed from the amp that busted*) did he budge. The last few months we have had to watch shows and movies with closed captioning (or maybe our ears are just getting old?). I know we need a new AV receiver and that will be my second post, but first let's discuss center speakers, reasonably priced, for DH's sake.

Now to keep y'all from having to dig for my previous post I will reprint the specs of my current front speakers and sub.

Boston Acoustics CR 6

crossover 3600 Hz
Freq Resp 65-20,000 Hz
8 ohms
sensitivity 88 db (1 watt at 1 m)
recommended amp power 15-100 watts

powered sub-woofer CR 400

FR 35-150 Hz
amp power 75 watts continuous 4 Ohms,
< .15% THD @ 60 watts, 4 ohms, 25-200 Hz

While searching the internet I do believe I found the specs for the center speaker that would have gone with these if I'd been able to convince DH it was necessary.

Speci?cations CRC speaker

Frequency Response (±3dB) 280–20,000 Hz
Recommended Ampli?er Power 15–100 watts
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Sensitivity [1 watt (2.83v) at 1m] 89d
Bass Unit 4 1/2" (115mm) copolymer
Passive Radiator 4 1/2" (115mm) copolymer
Tweeter 1" (25mm) Kortec
Crossover Frequency 22,500Hz

I've been puttering about on Amazon and Crutchfield trying to compare specs to that CRC but I really haven't much of a clue what is equivalent or even what price range I should be looking at to get something that would mesh well with the CR6s or even if it's possible.

Two years ago we talked about taking my CR8s from my stereo system and using them for fronts and the CR6s for rears. While this would be very nice and save money to put towards a better center speaker and higher end amp I still wonder if matching could be too tough.

So how about still moving the CR6s to the rear and then get a center AND two new front speakers? Can I do it for $300ish? (Or less to keep DH happy?)

IS this a good plan? And so what can we do? If we can figure this out then we can talk amps.

RM

*if the feed from the amp IS busted then having a new center speaker languish unheard will probably do more to help score me a new amp then any amount of batting my blue eyes at DH would ever do
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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9579 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/5/2012 10:49 AM
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IGNORE the previous specs for that CRC center speaker. I just found the old BA spec book with the CR1 center speaker meant to go with the CR6!

Freq Resp 95-20,000Hz
Rec amp power 15-100 w
nom impedance 8 ohms
sensitivity [1 watt(2.83v) at 1m] 90 db
bass unit 4.5" copolymer
tweeter 3/4" dome
crossover fq 3500 Hz
weight 5.5 lbs

I think that makes more sense.

RM

PS I also have the specs for the CR2 which was tuned to go with my CR8s.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9580 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/5/2012 11:00 AM
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Speakers depend on the amp. If your amp drives 120W/channel you don't want a speaker rated at 80W. For example.

Also, if you can run your rear channel speaker wire into the attic. That will avoid the puppy problem, and also the people-tripping-over-it problem. (Been there, done that.)

1poorguy

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9581 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/5/2012 2:38 PM
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Speakers depend on the amp. If your amp drives 120W/channel you don't want a speaker rated at 80W. For example.

Yeah I know, I suppose I should have provided some info on possible amps.

My current Sony amp is 80 w per channel. (says 20w for center and rear)

For new amps I'm looking at a couple different ones from Onkyo and Yamaha.

The first 2 interest me simply for the price. They are older models.

onkyo TX SR313 $200 amzn - 4 hdmi, 65w
yamaha RX V371 $191 amzn - 4 hdmi, 100w

They seem to have been replaced by these 2 though I am having trouble figuring out if what they have is really worth another $70-80.

onkyo TX SR414 $270 amzn - 6 hdmi, 80w
yamaha RX V471 $272 amzn - 4 hdmi, 105w

Then there is this one:

yamaha RX V373 $250 amzn - 4 hdmi, 105w

Since my current front speakers, the CR6 are list a recommended amp power of 15-100 w I wonder if the Yamaha could be too much for them? (my CR8s are rated at 15-125w so that could be a fix for that)

And a new wrinkle. This morning I told DH what I was up to and he suddenly repaired the wiring to the rear speakers. I also figured out the problem with the center speaker, it was merely a button on the front . (Amazing how finding the manual and reading it can help!) So we've got full surround again and DH says "well, I suppose you could still get a better center speaker, but I think the Sony receiver works just fine." (you now may imagine the sound of my head beating against a wall)

I admit the sound is greatly improved but I know it can be better. Convincing DH is the problem.

So, there ya go, I'm not quitting yet but I need better ammo in my battle with DH!

RM

PS - the rest of my components are an old VCR which has RCA connections so it will probably be retired to the old CRT TV in his den and an ordinary DVD player, not even HD (we almost never use it, we don't rent DVDs)

PPS Ziggy doesn't chew up stuff anymore, he's a good little boy!

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9582 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/5/2012 2:54 PM
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The 371 looks like a reasonable beastie.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amp...

http://data.yamaha.jp/sdb/local/products/images/21792/12075/... (you can zoom in and pan around)

I agree it may be on the high-end of power if your existing speakers are rated at 100W. You might need to replace those if you go with the 371.

They Onkyos are probably good (I'm a Yamaha person, but Onkyo has a good reputation). Lower power would help your speaker dilemma.

OTOH, if you're up and running and happy, why spend the money? If you're going to spend the money, you'd probably want to upgrade (i.e. more power, more features, video up-conversion, etc). IMO, it wouldn't make sense to do a replacement for similar if everything is working.

1poorguy

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9583 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/5/2012 5:02 PM
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My stereo has an old Onkyo that is still going strong, it's what my CR8s are attached to.

I read your last sentence to DH. He just smiled. But I'm on the lookout anyway because I KNOW I'll have to change something eventually.

RM

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9584 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/5/2012 7:17 PM
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I looked at the rear panel of the 371, but I don't see the subwoofer 12v control jack anywhere.. Has the subwoofer out jack, the mini jack should be near it...

weco

(looking to replace my elderly, non-HDMI receiver, and stick with Yamaha)

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9585 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/5/2012 8:57 PM
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I read your last sentence to DH. He just smiled. But I'm on the lookout anyway because I KNOW I'll have to change something eventually.

If your TV has HDMI, that could be a reason. Very nice, especially if you have other components (like BluRay) that support it). If you want better resolution of a video input, up-conversion is a very nice feature. I have HDTV without paying for HDTV because of it.

There ARE reasons. I would not say a similar/like replacement is one of them if the present system is working. But to upgrade to newer, useful features? Absolutely.

(Is he still smiling?)

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9593 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/7/2012 12:38 AM
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RM, you have a nice TV but you’re not getting the sets potential. The feed into it doesn’t match its native resolution of 1080p. You’re not getting the resolution the set’s capable of.

Rather than a new center speaker I would get a new amp that can upconvert the cable and peripherals to the set’s full resolution. I would highly recommend Yamaha’s Aventure RX-V373 ( review at http://shop.retrevo.com/m/s/Yamaha-RX-V373-Receivers-review-... ) Cost is about $250 plus taxes.

The RX-V373 has all the bells and whistles you’d ever need and it will last (tell the hubster this) you for years.

Right now I’d (if I’d have the RX-V373) bung any speaker I have as center. Later I’d look and find a Paradigm CC-370 V.3 or similar. Cost is about $200 and is well worth it because the speaker (or similar) makes the system work.

I am the board’s sound nut but that doesn’t mean I neglect the TV’s resolution. To me I get that through having an amp that send a signal the TV can use to then show 1080p. I chose my amp because it had a chipset capable of this. I think that’s the best move you can make now.

You have some good speakers yet, similar to the TV’s resolution not being fully realized, nor are these speakers. So don’t spend on a center until you have an amp that supports it well.

Can you get the puppy to chew up the older amp?

MichaelR

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9594 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/9/2012 9:09 AM
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(Is he still smiling?)

He seems to be. We watched Dr Who on BBC America last night for the first time without CC and even with the fast talking British accents mostly understood every word. So I'm sort of biding my time and hopefully on Black Friday there might be a really good deal on something.

Have to finish reading all the replies now, probably should have before I answered this one. I've been off playing hooky with my camera and pretty much ignoring the internet except to post photos on dpreview.

RM

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9595 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/9/2012 11:16 AM
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HI Michael,

RM, you have a nice TV but you’re not getting the sets potential. The feed into it doesn’t match its native resolution of 1080p. You’re not getting the resolution the set’s capable of.

But we are taking the signal directly from the HD DirecTV box straight into the TV via HDMI, so wouldn't this mean we are getting the 1080p video signal?

I tried to figure out what cables were going where but when I can't move the TV to look I can only check the boxes. It looks like we've hooked the AV amp to the DVD box which then hooks to the TV via 3 component cables.

We are NOT using the digital audio from the HD DirecTV box, but it looks like RCA audio AND video out to the VCR which then feeds those signals to the AV.

About the only thing the AV has coming out of it and into it are the speaker wires and 2 sets of RCA cables, one to the DVD and the other to the VCR.

So I'm guessing a new amp would probably help with the sound. Is this right? How much better would sound be using the satellite Video Audio out directly to a new amp? I assume there is some sort of signal loss jumping the sound from box to box before it hits the amp?

You know, being as DH is an electrical engineer, you'd think he'd be more interested and knowledgeable about this stuff. But he would probably blame his lack of interest on his tinnitus, he brings that up every so often as an excuse for "sound" stuff.

RM

PS - none of these less expensive receivers have up conversion, is that a problem? UC seems to add another $100 to the cost.


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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9596 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/9/2012 6:09 PM
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RM, I checked with DirectVT’s site
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?asset... and if you have an HR20, HR21, or HR22 box then you are getting 1080p. My error.

If you have the TV connected to the DiretTV’s box with HDMI and chose not to use the TV’s speakers then it’s routing the sound and that’s all about upgrading the amp: the way it’s presently setup you are using a combination of composite and component cabling (depending on the electronic component – DVD or VHS).

Sidebar: DVD will give 480 and CHS 240 resolution. Both far below what the TV is capable of handling.

So I'm guessing a new amp would probably help with the sound. Is this right? How much better would sound be using the satellite Video Audio out directly to a new amp? I assume there is some sort of signal loss jumping the sound from box to box before it hits the amp?

Ideal setup would be HDMI out from the DirectTV box to the amp and then HDMI to the TV. You won’t need the DirectTV’s other outputs. The DVD can connect via component and the VHS via composite thus putting the amp in the path so it can upconvert to HDMI and upscale to to the TV’ native resolution..

None of these less expensive receivers have up conversion, is that a problem? UC seems to add another $100 to the cost.

What brings the cost of upscaling is the cost of the chipset and licensing to the amp’s maker. Farouja DCDi being the least expensive and Anchor Bay and Marvell at the top end. Essentially, the more expensive chipsets are for ultra-large displays: with a 42-in. set viewed at a normal distance it’s hard to distinguish what chipset is used.

You know, being as DH is an electrical engineer, you'd think he'd be more interested and knowledgeable about this stuff. But he would probably blame his lack of interest on his tinnitus, he brings that up every so often as an excuse for "sound" stuff.

Sometimes tinnitus is worsened by poor sound – especially where there are excessively loud peaks. Not always that but it’s a consideration. There’s some stuff on it at http://www.quietrelief.com/ but I can’t say if the product works as advertised. Worth a try.

MichaelR

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9597 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/9/2012 7:19 PM
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The DVD can connect via component and the VHS via composite thus putting the amp in the path so it can upconvert to HDMI and upscale to to the TV’ native resolution..

I'm a little confused. If the V373 can't upconvert how can it upscale the DVD and VHS to 1080? OR am I missing something?

DH wants to know why bother putting the video through the amp? what does it gain over going straight from satellite box to the tv?

Also, does HDMI into the amp somehow improve the sound vs the RCA cable sound?

RM

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9598 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/9/2012 9:19 PM
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The DVD can connect via component and the VHS via composite thus putting the amp in the path so it can upconvert to HDMI and upscale to the TV’s native resolution..

I'm a little confused. If the V373 can't upconvert how can it upscale the DVD and VHS to 1080? OR am I missing something?


Again, my error. The V373 can only pass though an existing 1080. The HTR-5064 seems the cheapest unit that does upconvert and upscale. http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amp...

DH wants to know why bother putting the video through the amp? What does it gain over going straight from satellite box to the TV?

It gains in certain processing (removing mosquito noise and the like) and in better color. The problem with a feed direct from a source such as DirectTV is that in their compression algorithms artifacts are introduced into the signal received at home. The amp’s video chips remove them.

Also, does HDMI into the amp somehow improve the sound vs the RCA cable sound?

The RCA cables (yellow for video, white and red for audio) pass a analog stereo signal while HDMI passes a digital 5.1 signal. Two points: with digital you have surround using all speakers while analog uses, essentially, two. With an amp that has digital sound capabilities you can use, say a VCR, and the amp converts this to digital (A/D capability) and you can have 5.1 from it.

DirectTV is already sending you a digital signal in its HDMI outs.

For DH: the amp is a hub that can take virtually any signal (analog and/or digital) and give a uniform video/audio processing. This means you still keep your present peripherals and all will work at a high resolution. Should you decide in the future to upgrade any of them the amp will accommodate the upgrade without any additional expense. The by-far cheapest upgrade to any system is the amp.

MichaelR

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9599 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/9/2012 10:06 PM
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RM:

Here’s a good roundup of a/v amps (and prices)

http://hometheater.about.com/od/avreceiversreviews/tp/aatpmi...

MichaelR

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9600 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/10/2012 4:52 PM
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Thanks for all your replies. I have told DH that if and when an interesting amp comes on sale I am liable to buy it. I think after reading him your replies he is less reluctant (or just hoping I'll forget about it for another 2 years!)

Getting back to a center speaker:

Later I’d look and find a Paradigm CC-370 V.3 or similar. Cost is about $200 and is well worth it because the speaker (or similar) makes the system work.

Took a little searching but I finally found the specs on the Paradigm except for crossover frequency. Seems only available used on ebay.

However, I've been poking around for ones with specs similar to the one Boston Acoustics had spec'd for my CR6s and found one that might do.

It is from Atlantic Technology http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Technology-2200C-BLK-Speakers...

I sure wish I could actually listen to speakers before buying but I suppose it doesn't matter that much unless I can take my current book shelf speakers with me to hook them up with someone else's center speaker.

RM - there are a few disadvantages to living in the boonies

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9601 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/10/2012 5:09 PM
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Seems like 7.1 is becoming the norm. Can't seem to find any 5.1 systems with upconvert. I'll just have to ensure any new components are already 1080p compatible.

I was looking at my DVD player manual. It is not HD and it seems proud that it can upscale to 480p. Guess it's been a while since my mom gave me that. I then looked at the ~10 DVDs that I own. Not even my LoTR seem to be HD. The newest ones are 5.1 though. The others are recordings mostly pre-Dolby of any kind.

RM

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9602 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/10/2012 5:27 PM
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Having 7.1 is not a problem. You can run it as 5.1 or even 2.0 if you want. Mine has a menu to let me tell it what speakers are present, and whether I want them 'large' or 'small'.

Don't let the 7.1 deter you. It will work fine. (Mine is a 7.1 that is connected at 5.1, works great.)

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9603 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 9/10/2012 5:42 PM
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However, I've been poking around for ones with specs similar to the one Boston Acoustics had spec'd for my CR6s and found one that might do.

It is from Atlantic Technology http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Technology-2200C-BLK-Speakers......

RM


Excellent speaker because of its adjustability. There’s a short video on it at
http://www.invidium.com/atl/sat/2200_c.html

I was looking at my DVD player manual. It is not HD and it seems proud that it can upscale to 480p. Guess it's been a while since my mom gave me that. I then looked at the ~10 DVDs that I own. Not even my LoTR seem to be HD. The newest ones are 5.1 though. The others are recordings mostly pre-Dolby of any kind.

Your DVD’s native output is that of the DVD disc. It can’t play HD – only a Blu-ray player has that capability. That’s why I hammer on getting a good upconverting/upscaling amp: you will get HD from the discs you have (and from the VHS player).

If the DVD disc doesn’t specify Dolby 5.1 it is in Dolby 2.0. Once again, a better amp can take that and massage it to a higher codec using all your speakers. So it doesn’t mean to get HD you have to replace the present DVD player.

MichaelR

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9635 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 10/4/2012 12:39 PM
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It is from Atlantic Technology http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Technology-2200C-BLK-Speakers.........

RM

Excellent speaker because of its adjustability. There’s a short video on it at
http://www.invidium.com/atl/sat/2200_c.html


I never did get that link to work Michael.

However, it's probably a moot point now unless it had some good tips.

I was a bad girl and instead of getting the receiver first I went ahead and bought myself the center speaker from Amazon. I discovered that my Discover Card points could now be applied to Amazon purchases so in the end I got the speaker for only $60. It came yesterday and I set up a table in front of the TV, snagged the wire from the old Altec Lansing speaker and fired her up.

Oh my.

So much better.

I made DH leave his den and return to his recliner so I could flip the switches on the back while he listened. He didn't notice anything. I couldn't either, but we were watching TV rather than a movie and he has that tinitus and I was the one walking around. After he went hunting I emptied out the shelves under the TV and drilled the hole for the speaker wire, found a better piece of wire than was used for the old speaker (not as good as the Monster everything else is wired with but I'm out of the good stuff) popped in "the Fellowship" again.

Then I started having trouble with speakers dropping out, first the left main, then the center. Very frustrating. Finally figured it out; one wire had gotten pulled from the Sub, I'd hit a button on the AVR and dropped it out of surround, etc. Finally got it all working again then DH was home and we were watching TV shows rather than the movie. Will try that again when I've got time.

I did move the mains down to the same level as the center (the cause of all the wiring problems), now they're all at about 3.5 feet off the floor. Before the mains were about 5.5 feet off the floor in line with the center of the TV.

But I had to let you know what I've been up to. I grilled DH last night and did get him to admit he was pretty pleased with the sound. I think the Atlantic Technology center meshes really well with my Boston Acoustics. Though I've not any real experience of how wrongly mated speakers would sound I didn't notice anything that really bugged me. I do think it sounds better with the volume a little louder than DH wanted it last night.

So now I wonder... how this AT center would sound with the matching AT mains (still available for $149 for the PAIR).... and putting the CR6s as the surrounds replacing DH's old Lafyette XL-44s...

I should have known that once I started in on one upgrade I'd catch the bug to keep on going.....

RM :-o

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9639 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 10/4/2012 4:10 PM
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I did move the mains down to the same level as the center (the cause of all the wiring problems), now they're all at about 3.5 feet off the floor. Before the mains were about 5.5 feet off the floor in line with the center of the TV.

But I had to let you know what I've been up to. I grilled DH last night and did get him to admit he was pretty pleased with the sound. I think the Atlantic Technology center meshes really well with my Boston Acoustics. Though I've not any real experience of how wrongly mated speakers would sound I didn't notice anything that really bugged me. I do think it sounds better with the volume a little louder than DH wanted it last night.

So now I wonder... how this AT center would sound with the matching AT mains (still available for $149 for the PAIR).... and putting the CR6s as the surrounds replacing DH's old Lafayette XL-44s.

RM


The mains were too high and were firing over the seats. Good move to drop them down. The only speakers that benefit from height are surrounds.

But for a center buy speakers in pairs. Solves a lot of problems with sonic matching. As for speaker cable get 18-gauge lamp wire from Radio Shack.

Up to you but I’d next buy the amp and use the existing speakers. The biggest change in your system is the amp replacement.

As for center volume I raised mine about 2dB relative to the mains. Did that when I used a sound meter to level speakers (before having an amp with YPAO) and it worked better.

MichaelR

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9640 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 10/4/2012 9:56 PM
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My center is above the TV. Probably just over 6' off the floor. Problem??

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9641 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 10/4/2012 10:21 PM
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My center is above the TV. Probably just over 6' off the floor. Problem??

1poorguy


Shouldn’t be if it’s toed down to fire at the seats. It’s a tad high yet I’ve seen installations where, depending on the room’s reverbs, a higher placed center is far better than one too low (at knee height and aimed at the knees).

A lot depends on the dispersion characteristics of the speaker: some centers hold a tight line and some don’t.

I’d experiment with aiming it downward to see if you pick up more of the higher frequencies.

What center do you have?

MichaelR

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9642 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 10/4/2012 10:36 PM
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What center do you have?

A loooooong time ago I bought the Infinity SM62 speakers. A while later when I had a real job I wanted to match those so I got the SM center channel. Which led me later to getting the 155s (to match the center). Original plan was to move the 62s to rear channel duty, but as you know I did the in-ceiling units instead. So the 62s now sit in my closet. For now.

So, short answer, the SM center. Big sucker, too (for a center). It presently is firing straight forward. I could probably put a pair of adhesive rubber feet on the back edge to toe it down a bit.

1poorguy

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Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 10/4/2012 11:30 PM
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Nice center: two 6.5 in woofers and a one-inch tweeter at 80-20,000 Hz.

Yes, I’d experiment toeing it down.

You know something? We replace lots of stuff but not speakers. I have some that are almost 50 years old (that maker is long out of business) and they’re still good.

MichaelR

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9644 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 10/4/2012 11:55 PM
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A loooooong time ago I bought the Infinity SM62 speakers. A while later when I had a real job I wanted to match those so I got the SM center channel. Which led me later to getting the 155s (to match the center). Original plan was to move the 62s to rear channel duty, but as you know I did the in-ceiling units instead. So the 62s now sit in my closet. For now.

1poorguy


Does your amp have an A-B setting for the front mains? I have my Infinity Reference speakers as far left and far right on the A circuit and, on the B circuit, two Mirage 360 speakers (http://www.miragespeakers.ca/na-en/products/bookshelf/ ) on supplied stands located inwards of the Infinitys.

What I like about this is the ‘loosening’ of the Infinity speakers and, when the Dolby steering moves from left to right front there a more even sound field.

Those 62s are still really good speakers.

MichaelR

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Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 10/5/2012 5:48 PM
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You know something? We replace lots of stuff but not speakers. I have some that are almost 50 years old (that maker is long out of business) and they’re still good.

Original cones?

I had to replace the tweeters on the 155s a couple years ago. Much cheaper than replacing the speakers themselves (not that this would be possible now, as you know). I find it interesting that all these years later most audiophiles still think of the Infinity SM series as better than most of the new stuff (including their new SM series). You'd think with advances in technology that this wouldn't be the case. So, yeah, I hang on to them.

I'll try a bit of pointing, and rerunning the YPAO.

1poorguy

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9647 of 10547
Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 10/5/2012 10:12 PM
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I had to replace the tweeters on the 155s a couple years ago. Much cheaper than replacing the speakers themselves (not that this would be possible now, as you know). I find it interesting that all these years later most audiophiles still think of the Infinity SM series as better than most of the new stuff (including their new SM series). You'd think with advances in technology that this wouldn't be the case. So, yeah, I hang on to them.

1poorguy


I think the SM series back then were a departure from the’baggy’ bass of others; the SM’s were clearer and more definitive. Although old I would stack them up against many newer models even though these newer speakers are made of better materials.

What some modern speaker makers do that I don’t like is cut costs by using cheaper crossovers and cheaper cabinets. Rap a knuckle against the SMs and compare that with the sound coming from some speakers made more recently. Cheap is a boxy sound teling the internal bracing isn’t what it could be.

I feel the same of my Paradigm Studio/60’s (http://www.paradigm.com/products/products-by-category/floors... Clean, tight and solid construction. They will part over my dead cold hands.

MichaelR

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Subject: Re: RM Needs a Center Speaker Date: 10/6/2012 1:57 AM
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I understand. Those SMs are never leaving me. They are sooooo much better than the Pioneers they replaced (I had the Pioneers first, then the 62s, and now the 155s). The Pioneers were fine until I heard the 62s...the difference in clarity was startling. The 155s seem just as clear, but with more depth and range. IMO.

Those Paradigms look nice. I knew someone who had a set (not that specific model), and they were very nice. Clear and rich. He played the 1812 Overture on them for me once...the version that included the US Army firing off howitzers at the end. :-)

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