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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 68622  
Subject: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/3/2012 10:57 PM
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Wonder if he has been reading the NPI?

Even CNN was universally complementary!

Have a nice weekend everyone!
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Author: XMFBreakerTinker Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63918 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 12:25 AM
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Duma,

Wait until Nov 7. Funny, how the day before the debate the polls, TIGHTENED, all of a sudden.

I would expect some more poll propoganda, but it is still 30 days...pundits are pundits, and the electorate will do.

Unlike Tamhas, I am not paid, or volunteered, to carry the water for an ideological regime. I just call it like I see it. And things are dynamic. Tamhas, like Liberals in general, just think there is a fixed pie, and what happens today won't affect what happens tomorrow.

So be it.

It will feel much better if it starts to go this way. Obama has not reached 50% in any major polls, and undecideds are looking to vote for the new guy, and Romney gave the undecideds what they needed to so make that call. But pundits and these people, we shall see what happens, not that we will spin something to achieve an affect, which is utterly dishonest.

Tinker

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63920 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 6:11 AM
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Even CNN was universally complementary!

Since you are having so much fun duma let me see if I can ad to it.

I thought Romney clearly won the debate, the use of the word rout is not to strong IMO and Obama's performance was every bit as bad as GB's first debate against Kerry's.

The debate very much reminded me of a football game where one team (Obama) clearly has the stronger team and yet when the game starts the weaker team strikes early & often leaving their opponent dazed and confused to the point they are unable to recover.

Please don't misunderstand me, he won, but it was a contest of style over substance.

Mitt was clearly better prepared and he executed his "game plan" near flawlessly. From the very beginning and on virtually every topic that came up he had a long list of sound bites at the ready which made it nearly impossible for Obama to respond effectively. If you know your opponent has 2 minutes to respond for example (even assuming he'll go over the allotted time) then a wonderful technique is to spend your 2 minutes rattling off a list of completely baseless(mostly)accusations knowing full well your opponent will only have time to address one or two leaving the rest of the accusations unanswered. (Sh1t clinging to the wall)The same technique was used effectively when Mitt was promising a "chicken in every pot" and a cure for every disease through what best could be described as political alchemy.

Still though, Obama clearly was his own worst enemy IMO. He looked irritated the whole night, his answers were "professorial" vs. Mitt's litany of sound bites and lofty but ridiculous promises. Although I'm not exactly sure it's cause (camera angles) the filming of the debate through the entire night gave the appearance that Mitt was looking at/listening to both Jim & Obama while Obama appeared to be not listening or looking away the whole time. If I was a right winger I would certainly be screaming mainstream media bias and conspiracy, but since I'm not I'll just make the observation that it didn't help an already bad situation.

So yes IMO Mitt won, primarily because he was able to communicate/distill his message (even when it was mostly BS) in a way that fit the format. Obama, on the other hand, acted like that he would have all of the time in the world to explain his positions honestly and in detail, when clearly that could never be accomplished in the time frame allotted.

What impact will it have on the polls? Clearly it will help Mitt, maybe a lot. Does Obama need to improve his performance next time out? With out a doubt. Will he? Don't know.

What I do know is this debate isn't likely to change the opinions of either man's base, which leaves the race in the hands of truly independent voters as it has always been.

Will they be smart enough to distinguish between style and substance? We'll see I guess, but for the country's sake I certainly hope so.

So anyway; What's with have a nice weekend? Most of us normal folk work Fridays and if your intent is to hold a victory party my suggestion would be that it may still be a bit premature for that.

B

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63922 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 8:34 AM
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one team (Obama) clearly has the stronger team

Here we disagree B. If Obama had a better record, Romney couldn't have made any headway with him. But is was point after point with no media there to protect Obama from the core issues.

If you know your opponent has 2 minutes to respond for example (even assuming he'll go over the allotted time) then a wonderful technique is to spend your 2 minutes rattling off a list of completely baseless(mostly)accusations<?i>

Maybe Obama tried that but since he had a full 4 minutes more talk time than did Romney, it wouldn't appear that Romney used such a tactic or at least that Obama wasn't given the courtesy of time to respond.

What I do know is this debate isn't likely to change the opinions of either man's base, which leaves the race in the hands of truly independent voters as it has always been.

Agreed.

But I am not sure your impression of substance lacking with Romney was correct. A few examples:

1) Emphatically stated he will work with Democrats as much as Repubs and has the history to prove he can and would do that. IMO, I believe we would find him to be more moderate so liberal don't need to fear him.

2) Well defined point by point approach to economic recovery and defined his management style.

3) Dispelled concerns about lowering tax burden paid by the rich. People can understand why that 3% is so important since 40% of jobs come from them!

4) Dispelled concerns about negatively impacting education. Thought his commentary on "choices" Obama made with alternatives ($90 Billion wasted) that could have hired 2 million teachers was spot on!

5) Stressed priorities and why Obamacare was ill timed legislation

6) Stressed need to rebuild and strengthen middle class and was acutely aware of their plight

7) Stressed that Medicare would be saved and that gutting providers will reduce access

8) Stressed energy independence through all sources

9) Stressed importance of regulation but knew very specifics about what legislative initiatives would and are more harmful than good.

10) Etc.

But I certainly agree with you.....the Repubs shouldn't be spiking the ball.

Even so, it is very clear when Romney and Obama are not protected by media bias or teleprompters and all issues are on the table, people can see them for what they are.

In that regard, the frenzied attempts by tamahas to suggest this election is over........now that was PREMATURE!!

Romney was presidential.......I suspect everyone could see that quite clearly and the liberal media on CNN were no less than stunned by the revelation that Romney is presidential and brings polish, potential for bringing us back together.


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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63929 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 10:06 AM
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I am not paid, or volunteered, to carry the water for an ideological regime.

Actually, that makes us alike.

You don't seem to understand that if the polls shift now, that means that opinion has shifted, not that the polls currently are wrong.

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63931 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 10:14 AM
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The problem with all that stress, Duma, is that it was promises without substance or detail ... a perfectly fine set of goals, but without the detail, one has no idea how they are going to be accomplished. Very notable in this is the so-called tax plan. The few details we do have create either a big shortfall in revenue or a need to get the revenue from somewhere else. Merely calling it revenue neutral without explaining how that is going to be accomplished is an empty promise. If there is a plan, we need to know what it is in order to evaluate what we think of it.

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63934 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 10:27 AM
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I am not paid, or volunteered, to carry the water for an ideological regime............

Actually, that makes us alike.


LOL!

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63935 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 10:36 AM
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If there is a plan, we need to know what it is in order to evaluate what we think of it.<?i>

Funny how you didn't seem to car about details in 2008!!

Romney had much more details than Obama did last night.....far more!

He was presidential, well reasoned, firm, bipartisan, fair and very very knowledgeable.

Don't worry so much tamahas.......he won't be a liberal's nightmare like Bush was.

He is our only chance to be friends again ;) and work as a country on both sides of aisle and in between.

Embrace it!


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Author: captainccs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63936 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 11:03 AM
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He is our only chance to be friends again ;) and work as a country on both sides of aisle and in between.

Embrace it!


Good comment! In my country a lot of people wanted Capriles to take a more right wing stance but Capriles is a left of center politician like most of our successful ones over the past 50 plus years. You cannot turn a ship around on a dime. CAP, the democratic president who won by the greatest landslide ever lost his job when he tried to turn to the right suddenly without first preparing the population. Privatizing the national telco went well, eliminating price controls was not popular, but when he tried to rationalize the price of gas at the pump, he was fired.

I realize that Venezuela is and will remain socialist for a long time. The real issue is not spending oil income on the poor but respecting private property at all levels, rich and poor alike. Living with the fear of losing your business or your home or other hard won property does not lead to a happy existence. With Chavez the threat is threefold, government expropriating anything they fancy, the government encouraging invasion of private proper, and rampant crime stealing and kidnapping for ransom.

Chavez, like Obama, is charismatic and has a large following but when you travel on the subway and hear people talk, they worry about their daily lives, not about political philosophy. They want bread and security. Last night I was looking for a video of the debate. Not finding one, I listened to Romney's RNC acceptance speech. Unlike Chavez and Obama, he was not advocating class warfare or racial warfare. He was addressing ALL fellow Americans. One point really struck a chord with me, when he said: "Obama promised to make the seas stop rising. I promise to help you all to a better life." Ideologue vs. pragmatist! Let the pragmatists win every time!

Denny Schlesinger

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63938 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 1:39 PM
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But is was point after point with no media there to protect Obama from the core issues.

Just because a infomercial is effective doesn't really make it a slam dunk that you will be happy when the package is delivered to your door.

1) Emphatically stated he will work with Democrats as much as Repubs and has the history to prove he can and would do that. IMO, I believe we would find him to be more moderate so liberal don't need to fear him.

LOL, right after he repeals something that Democreats have fought for for 80 years (Obamacare) I assume.:<)

You seem to be overlooking that in Massachusetts he really had no alternative but to tilt to the left, just as he had no alternative but to reinvent himself by tilting hard right if he wanted the Republican nomination. That IMO has nothing to do with "working together" it's simply being opportunistic (some might call it a lack of any core values). Frankly, it isn't hard for me to imagine Romney working with Democrats but it is nearly impossible for me to imagine him standing up to the ideologues in his own party.

So in short and with apologies to Bob Dylan the answer to our problems my friend is not electing someone who will change every time the wind blows. Whether you like his claims about what he believes, or will do, there is simply no precedent indicating that it is a high probability event that he will accomplish/act in the manner he claims.

Even so, it is very clear when Romney and Obama are not protected by media bias or teleprompters and all issues are on the table, people can see them for what they are.

Believe it or not, as I read the others points you make I actually try to understand your position even when I disagree. Then you write stuff like this and I ask myself; what's the point?

I thought you left for the weekend?

B

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63939 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 2:24 PM
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Gallup: Obama’s Approval Rating Reaches 54 Percent, Highest Mark Since ‘09

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/gallup-obamas-ap...

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63940 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 2:54 PM
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If there is a plan, we need to know what it is in order to evaluate what we think of it.

What is the point of your incessant poll reporting??

I suppose you are not trying to spin this right??

BTW, that polling data was pre-debate.......think it will still be the same next week??

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63941 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 3:05 PM
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My poll reporting is in response to wishful thinking on the part of posters here who think one isolated poll means something. I added this one, even though it is one poll, because of Tinker's repeated (incorrect) claims that Obama can't be reelected because he has less than 50% popularity. Well, not only do people get elected with less than 50% popularity, but now we have a data point solidly above 50%.

As for next week, nothing in the debate is likely to lower this number. Romney's own popularity, which has been in the toilet, much lower than Obama's, might rise a little.

As for the impact on the presidential horse race or electoral map, we'll see. So many people have made up their minds this year, that it would be surprising if last night either decided a lot or converted a lot. I do know that if Romney doesn't get a good bump, it is looking bad for him.

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Author: TMFMurph Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63951 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 8:05 PM
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...it was promises without substance or detail ... a perfectly fine set of goals, but without the detail, one has no idea how they are going to be accomplished....<snip>...If there is a plan, we need to know what it is in order to evaluate what we think of it.


Hi tamhas!

Why not handle it like the Speaker of the House advised on ObamaCare--pass it in order to see what's in the plan. ;-)

Cheers!
Murph
Home ( could not resist ) Fool

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Author: captainccs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63952 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/4/2012 8:10 PM
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Why not handle it like the Speaker of the House advised on ObamaCare--pass it in order to see what's in the plan. ;-)

Cheers!
Murph


BRILLIANT!

Denny Schlesinger

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Author: FreethinkerKW Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63954 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 12:58 AM
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Why not handle it like the Speaker of the House advised on ObamaCare--pass it in order to see what's in the plan. ;-)

You meant "The Patriot Act" didn't you?

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63956 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 5:56 AM
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Why not handle it like the Speaker of the House advised on ObamaCare--pass it in order to see what's in the plan. ;-)

Cheers!
Murph
Home ( could not resist ) Fool


Hmmm, I wonder if this might not shed some light on my questions about who is involved, and what their biases might be, when it comes to enforcing the fool rules of conduct.

I don't really know, but I have certainly always been curious given the uneven and arbitrary decisions on what is ultimately allowed.

B

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63958 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 7:02 AM
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Hmmm, I wonder if this might not shed some light on my questions about who is involved, and what their biases might be, when it comes to enforcing the fool rules of conduct.

B, you only have to look square at your colleague tamahs.....he has been the post reporter and he freely admitted it.

No need for your conspiracy theories.......

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63961 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 7:59 AM
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B, you only have to look square at your colleague tamahs.....he has been the post reporter and he freely admitted it.

Perhaps, but if it has indeed been comrade tamhas, then wouldn't that make him "fair & balanced".

Just saying,

B

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Author: TMFMurph Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63962 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 8:06 AM
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....
Hmmm, I wonder if this might not shed some light on my questions about who is involved, and what their biases might be, when it comes to enforcing the fool rules of conduct.

I don't really know, but I have certainly always been curious given the uneven and arbitrary decisions on what is ultimately allowed.


Hi B!

Perhaps a refresher course in what the various TMF designations do would be of help:

http://www.fool.com/community/community-team.aspx


So, as a Home Fool, my job is to do the following:

"Home Fools, as designated by the H icon, expand beyond the role of Welcome Guides by engaging and enriching the discussions. These Home Fools encourage high quality discussions; help maintain a welcome environment for all posters, and post interesting content."

Based upon my interactions with hundreds of Fools over the years,I think that I've generally done a decent job of living up to that charge.
Further, as a Home Fool, I have absolutely no input as to enforcing the rules of conduct or any other policy matters for TMF.

However, becoming a TMF'er does not cancel my rights of free speech.

The post I made simply pointed out what I thought was the somewhat humorous irony of what I perceived to be a bit of a double standard ( please note the smiley face at the end of my previous post ).

My objective was not to offend; rather to point out that there are always two sided to every story.

Cheers!
Murph
Home Fool

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63964 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 8:09 AM
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The post I made simply pointed out what I thought was the somewhat humorous irony of what I perceived to be a bit of a double standard ( please note the smiley face at the end of my previous post ).<?i>

Murph:

Most of us took it for humor....I suspect even B chuckled for a nanosecond ;)


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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63965 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 8:11 AM
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Perhaps, but if it has indeed been comrade tamhas, then wouldn't that make him "fair & balanced".

No....you were just "a bump in the road".......friendly fire ;)

Peace!

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Author: TMFMurph Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63968 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 8:42 AM
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Why not handle it like the Speaker of the House advised on ObamaCare--pass it in order to see what's in the plan. ;-)

You meant "The Patriot Act" didn't you?


Hi FTKW!

Great to "see" you again! I hope things are going better for you down in the Keys than the last time we talked ( BMW Method boards ).

Anyway, perhaps you have a point; however comparing the passage of the Patriot Act and Obamacare may be at bit problematic:

Obamacare passed without a single Republican vote

The Patriot Act passed the Senate 98-1; and passed the House 357-66

If I read my charts right, composition of the Senate at the time was 50-50; the House was 221R/212D....so, 54 Democrat Senators voted in favor, as did 146 Democrat House members.

As to the point about finding out what's in a bill by passing it ( since there was little time for members to read a 1200-page bill before it was brought up for a vote ), well, Pelosi's statement is a matter of record. The Patriot Act was 342 pages.

Please keep in mind that I'm speaking to the method of passage of the two bills....not the rightness or wrongness of their content.

Cheers!
Murph
Home Fool

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63971 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 9:14 AM
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"a bump in the road".......friendly fire ;)

It's ironic that you would choose to combine the two phrases given the discussions we have had over the last few days. As it happens, I guess maybe the third person I knew to die in Vietnam (it got worse) had a big role in popularizing the phrase "friendly fire".

Mike was a couple years older than me, so I knew his sister Mary better and his mom Meg better still. Meg worked in my high school office where I found myself spending an inordinate amount of time due to various violations of the rules of conduct. (Some things never change)

Just a little trivia on a slow day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_Fire_(1979_film)

B

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63972 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 9:35 AM
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Since I decided to post about Mike I thought I'd add this as well. I'm sure you will recognized a rather well know General (Stormin Norman) in the story.

My take on this story, is simple. Whether you choose to believe that a cover up had taken place or not, one thing is clear the pain & suffering endured by the family is real and doesn't ever really go away.

What this story also shows very well is how people who choose to involve themselves in a story strictly for personal or political gain simply make it worse for the family, when what they really deserve is the truth.

Anyone see any parallels to Benghazi?

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1976/oct/14/friendl...

B

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Author: captainccs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63975 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 9:55 AM
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Murph:

Your Pelosi zinger was BRILLIANT! (irrespective of the contents of the bill).

The Captain

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63977 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 10:15 AM
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One might point out that it is not the person doing the reporting who has violated TMF etiquette. One might also point out that TMF staff have to agree that it is a violation before it gets back to the original party. TMF is not going to censure based on any kind of "thought police" issues, but rather on issues like being personally offensive. Is that what you are trying to preserve ... the right to be abusive?

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Author: TMFMurph Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Home Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63978 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 10:30 AM
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...If I read my charts right, composition of the Senate at the time was 50-50; the House was 221R/212D....so, 54 Democrat Senators voted in favor, as did 146 Democrat House members....

OOPS!

Just so my math is correct; 50-1, with one abstention ( not sure which party )...so let's say about 48-49 of the 50 Democrats.

Cheers!
Murph
Home ( thick-fingered ) Fool

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63979 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 10:33 AM
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One might also point out that TMF staff have to agree that it is a violation before it gets back to the original party. TMF is not going to censure based on any kind of "thought police" issues, but rather on issues like being personally offensive.

What does all of this have to do with pulling a piece of satire, with no name calling, clears the profanity filter etc.?

I mean really, personally offensive? With a standard like that virtually no post is safe.

So are you admitting duma's claim that you are my nemesis? :<)

B

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63980 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 10:50 AM
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Since it is gone, I can't go back and see what might have triggered them pulling it. I don't recall it being particularly offensive ... and it certainly wasn't I that reported it, just as I am sure that a certain person has been reported by someone other than myself, even though I was the one being personally insulted. It certainly wasn't in the category of some of the posts on this forum, i.e., while one might wish the level of dialog were high enough that it *might* have been outside the bounds, empirically, the amount of day to day personal attack here means that it was actually more reasonable and intelligent than many unreported posts here, at least, as far as I recall at this point.

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63981 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 10:56 AM
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and it certainly wasn't I that reported it,

Well that's a relief comrade, for a moment I was afraid I'd have to report you to my friends on the politburo. :<)

B

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63982 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 11:13 AM
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So are you admitting duma's claim that you are my nemesis? :<)

See B.........the enemy is from within ;)

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Author: ncfool2 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63992 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 5:33 PM
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I see Jack Welch (former GE CEO) is on the airwaves this evening raving (without a shred of actual evidence) about how this morning's job numbers were "cooked" by those "gangsters in Chicago". (Is he bad-mouthing Milton Friedman here?). But of course, Uncle Jack is now 107 years old, so he may have a touch of the old Alzheimer's

http://www.ryan-romney.org/inspiring-images

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63995 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 6:54 PM
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A few actual facts about the $90B

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/...

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/romneys-clean-energy-whoppers/

So, "blowing $90M" on green is a big whopper.

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63997 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 6:59 PM
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So, "blowing $90M" on green is a big whopper.


Nonsense!

You just post pure political liberal rags as "truth sayers"???

Extremism is not truth.......nonsense.

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 63999 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 8:46 PM
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Nonsense!

You just post pure political liberal rags as "truth sayers"???


Geez duma, give it a break,the information you brought to the board proved it wasn't true.

Next thing you know, you guys will start to include cutting the grass at the White house as a boondoggle because the grass is green. :<(

B

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Author: XMFBreakerTinker Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64000 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 9:52 PM
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SHOCKER: ROMNEY NOW AHEAD IN THREE KEY SWING STATES WHERE HE WAS DOWN BIG TIME JUST DAYS AGO, AND THIS BEFORE THE IMPACT OF THE DEBATE, IN OHIO, VIRGINIA, FLORIDA:

http://news.yahoo.com/swing-states-swinging-back-romney-2004...

Still, Obama up in the national poll.

But I thought these meant something! Tamhas said they did. When the national polls had Romney up, Tamhas said, yes, well, look at the swing states, and I suppose when the swing states have Romney up he will say look at the national polls.

Which way is it? Or rather, most of the polling to date has been buckus except really for Ramussen and some Gallup polls. Polling will now start to get more accurate as reputations are now on the line, and the trend will really and truly be your friend, not the absolute numbers.

As I said, why did you even start taunting on this issue Tamhas? Rather clearly, to achieve, in whatever small way we can on these boards, a cumulative emotional and psychological affect to discourage donations, and limit early voting, not to mention create the illusion of momentum that might build upon its own steam.

I still don't know who is going to win this election, but it certainly is not going to play out from your dishonest spin. I say dishonest because of the intent behind it, whcih is clearly not to discuss or analyze but to put out the regime talking points, which you have moved into, time and time again, as the regime does, and then moved on when the next talking points are released.

Tinker

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64001 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 9:55 PM
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Geez duma, give it a break,the information you brought to the board proved it wasn't true.

It was Obama's definition as well B.....you can't have it both ways.

These were his green initiatives period.

Romney has it right....it was diversion of what would have been education money for this Obama project and therefore Obama is being hypocritical as usual for accusing Romney of diverting education money elsewhere.

Obama seems to have played much more loose wight the facts......as usual.

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64002 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 10:04 PM
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I still don't know who is going to win this election, but it certainly is not going to play out from your dishonest spin. I say dishonest because of the intent behind it, whcih is clearly not to discuss or analyze but to put out the regime talking points, which you have moved into, time and time again, as the regime does, and then moved on when the next talking points are released.

These new polls do not yet reflect the full movement toward Romney which more typically would be polls into next week.

Romney has the much stronger argument but he still needs to at least match Obama in next 2 debates......Obama will come out swinging and aggressive IMO.......

Gotta love the liberals excuses:

1) Altitude made him slow to think
2) Romney didn't tell the truth
3) Lehrer didn't moderate Romney
4) Obama is too busy running the country to prepare for debate
5) there was no TelePrompTer

What a joke!!!

Romney is our last chance lest we go "forward" over the cliff.

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64004 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/5/2012 10:23 PM
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Romney has it right....it was diversion of what would have been education money

Geez duma; do you ever even think about what you write. Even if you believe the money was wasted it doesn't mean it was money diverted from hiring teachers.

BREAKING NEWS

Obama has been arguing for more teachers and has been able to help the states in this regard.

BREAKING NEWS

The Republicans have been fighting him every step of the way (except for the Republican governors who took the money and then crowed how they made tough choices to balanced their budgets as they bashed Obama for spending too much money.) and as I recall Mitt had something to say on the subject as well; remember this?

"he wants another stimulus, he wants to hire more government workers. He says we need more fireman, more policeman, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It's time for us to cut back on government and help the American people."

Pure unadulterated BS and you are helping to spread it.

B

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64006 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 6:39 AM
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It is clearly not BS B......BSB?..........interesting :)

Romney's retort was to Obama's repeated accusation that Romney's tax plan would rob education. Romney rightfully pointed out that Obama made choices that effectively robbed education with all that wasted green spending.

You can't choose which facts you want to pay attention to because you don't like calling Obama out for his hypocrisy.......because that is what it is......plain and simple.

BTW.....how did you like Romney' tax plan.........I would think you would approve.

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64009 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 8:52 AM
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how did you like Romney' tax plan.........I would think you would approve.

Good morning Mr duma,

What tax plan would you be referring to? I don't recall seeing one, unless you are referring to that half plan where he knew the rates he would cut but couldn't explain how he would actually limit deductions to offset the loss of revenue.

It sure sounded nice but in away it reminded me a bit of a younger Mitt and his "plan" on a different subject.

Perhaps you are aware that during the Vietnam war Mitt was a strong supporter of the idea (plan) of young men fighting and dying for his country. So much so, that as it turns out he actually participated in pro-war rallies. Unfortunately, when the time came to implement part 2 of the war plan (the equivalent of giving up these unspecified deductions in his "tax plan") Mitt didn't see the need to step up and make the personal contribution required.

So yeah, I guess you could say I liked the sound of his plan, I like flag waving as well, but perhaps you can understand when I say once bitten twice shy when it comes to Mitt.

Or to put it another way, talk is cheap. :<(

B

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64012 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 10:11 AM
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unless you are referring to that half plan where he knew the rates he would cut but couldn't explain how he would actually limit deductions to offset the loss of revenue.

Are you aware that he proposed to limit deductions to just $17,000 per year??

Despite what Obama lied about, Romney's proposal with reduction in deductions, will not add to the deficit.

Come on over B.....try to be fair and consider the actual data rather than the spin.

We need a reset....it is abundantly clear.

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64015 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 10:42 AM
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Are you aware that he proposed to limit deductions to just $17,000 per year??

I am aware he floated it as a trial balloon and as I understand his campaign has already backed away from it pretty much. (Something they do regularly after he tells a select crowd what he thinks they might want to hear.)

come on over B.....try to be fair and consider the actual data rather than the spin.

Show me the data. I'm not making things up, you are. By Romney's own admission he is not intending to bring a plan to the Presidency (those pesky details can be dealt with later) instead like Ronald Reagan (What happened to him not being a Reagan Republican)he was only bringing a governing philosophy.

Didn't you listen to the debate? Perhaps you should see if you can find a transcript of it somewhere.

We need a reset....it is abundantly clear.

I agree, my wish is that some day the Republican party will undergo a "reset" to the days they actually allowed moderates into the party, beyond that is, hoping a few will vote for them despite what they have become.

To think I could look back at Nixon as the good old days is down right scary and very, very sad.

But it is what it is.

B

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64016 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 10:49 AM
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Politifact is a pure political rag???? Don't I recall you citing their lie of the year because you happened to like that one?

This is another example of your dismissing without thought or consideration any information which comes from a site you don't like ... in this case as much as anything because you didn't like the conclusion offered. The data is there as are sources. So far, all you have done is to point to some spending numbers, not to provide any evidence that any of the money was "blown". Clearly, a small percentage of the loan guarantee money was lost, but the loan guarantee was only a small part of the total spending on green, so trying to create the impression that all spending on green was wasted or that half of the loan money was lost is either an outright lie or, at best, disingenous citing of other people's screeds without bothering to check or think about what has been said.

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64019 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 11:06 AM
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Once again, Tinker, you overreact on limited data. See my remarks to Duma ... take a deep breath ... and wait a week before you even start to believe there has been a change.

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Author: rubberthinking Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64020 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 11:13 AM
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This is another example of your dismissing without thought or consideration any information which comes from a site you don't like ...

Tamhas,

you'd be great in anti smoking campaigns.

You would not effect anyone to the point that they would stop smoking, but you'd be loud.

When are you going to get your act together and realize that if a sort of grown adult wants to chow down on a pile of political shyte he has every right to do so and he wont change at all?

Duma, tink and captain denser are lost causes. You cant do a brain transplant on a lost cause.

Dave

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64021 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 11:26 AM
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Not Obama's definition at all.

If you are going to define anything not spent on education as blown, there are a lot of budgets that one should look at other than something vaguely green ... how about defense?

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64022 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 11:34 AM
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Ask yourself one question, Duma, was the performance you saw Wednesday typical of what you have seen from Obama. If not, then do you think you can rely on this lasting through the next two?

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64023 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 11:49 AM
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Romney rightfully pointed out that Obama made choices that effectively robbed education with all that wasted green spending.

Are you suggesting it is "wasted" simply because it is green? Otherwise, it makes no sense since clearly only a very small part failed to accomplish its purpose ... which doesn't fit most definitions of waste.

how did you like Romney' tax plan.........I would think you would approve.

How would one know? No coherent plan has been advanced. So far, statements that have been made indicate that either revenue will be substantially reduced or there is going to have to be additional revenue come from some unidentified source. Clearly, removing the deductions for the rich isn't enough ... the way you do accounting, that means they don't count at all!

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64025 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 11:55 AM
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Are you aware that he proposed to limit deductions to just $17,000 per year??

And you think that is enough to solve the offset?

Moreover, do you see such a thing actually passing? Among other things, it would provide a killer blow for charitable contributions.

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Author: rjf53 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64028 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 2:41 PM
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Romney's proposal with reduction in deductions, will not add to the deficit.

Hi Mr Duma,

I just couldn't resist letting this one last little bit of "data" out of our discussion.

I literal just awoke from a nap, long story involving a "lock in" my daughter attended last night. So anyway I walked right to my porch, sat down in my recliner and switched on the TV.

What was on was a interview of a Romney spokesman being asked about a perceived discrepancy between what Mr Romney said from a clip in the debate, where he said he would cut tax rates across the board by 20% for everyone vs what he claimed in a clip a few days later about not cutting taxes on the 1%.

Now I'm sure if I could provide you precise quotes or better still a video of what I watched you would have a great explanation but I can't. I can however provide you with an exact quote made by the Romney spokesman to the query.

"I am not going to respond to that question, I do not know what Governor Romney was thinking"

Ah yes, a man with a plan, unfortunately even his spokesman doesn't know what it is.

But no worries because apparently you do? Right?

Warm regards,

B

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64030 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 3:36 PM
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Ah yes, a man with a plan, unfortunately even his spokesman doesn't know what it is.

Not surprising when the "plan" is no more than some broad goals and everything else a trial balloon that only lasts a couple of days.

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64031 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 4:27 PM
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Not surprising when the "plan" is no more than some broad goals and everything else a trial balloon that only lasts a couple of days.

Which isn't of course true but even it it was, still MUCH better than the Obama plan of class warfare that doesn't even pay for 8% of the deficit!

Obama.....the most unpatriotic debt laden president of all time.

I would break this post into 8 posts like tamahs does but I have better things to do.

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64032 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 4:54 PM
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but I have better things to do.

Which apparently does not include actually responding to any substance, but does include reiterating the same slogans as if they were still relevant.

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Author: dumaflotchie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64033 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 5:07 PM
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Which apparently does not include actually responding to any substance, but does include reiterating the same slogans as if they were still relevant.

The only "substance" that interests you is the grunge in the toilet bowl like found in your politico, etc. extremist liberal sites. Hence, yuor numerous unreferenced italicised material.......we know why you don't seem to link them right?

The truth however has been addressed repeatedly by me.

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Author: tamhas Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 64034 of 68622
Subject: Re: Romney is Brilliant! Date: 10/6/2012 5:13 PM
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The truth however has been addressed repeatedly by me.

Like the "truth" in this thread in which you equate any money spent on any vaguely green project as wasted?

The only reason I did not link some is because I knew that people like you would disregard the information based on the source without even bothering to read it. You seem to have failed to notice that since you started complaining about it, I have, in fact, been providing the links. So, once again you selectively hang on to your minutiae and pretend like they are the whole.

And, btw, I don't read politico and so am very unlikely to have ever quoted it.

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