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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 744749  
Subject: Romney's Answer Date: 10/16/2012 2:20 PM
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During a recent Romney campaign stop, a heckler from the audience hollered, "Hey Mitt Witt, where are you hiding your tax returns?

Governor Romney politely responded, "I've found a very secure place that I'm certain they won't be found."

The insistent heckler, then shouted, "And just where is that, dummy"?

Governor Romney smiled and said, "They are underneath Obama's college records, his passport application, his immigration status as a student, his funding sources to pay for college, his college records, and his Selective Service registration.

"What's your next question"
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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649183 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/16/2012 11:11 PM
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They are underneath Obama's college records, his passport application, his immigration status as a student, his funding sources to pay for college, his college records, and his Selective Service registration.
Next question:


If you have access to all those things, why haven't you released them?

Is it because they don't put Obama in any sort of compromised position?

Or is the point your making that Obama's college and other records from 30 years ago are just as important as your tax returns from three years ago?

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649188 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 1:31 AM
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hrse wrote: Or is the point your making that Obama's college and other records from 30 years ago are just as important as your tax returns from three years ago?

What has 30 vs. three years to do with the price of bananas?

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649189 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 1:49 AM
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What has 30 vs. three years to do with the price of bananas?

Price of banana's ? Nothing

Shedding light into their character: what you did three years ago says much more than what you did 30 years ago.

Do you disagree?

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Author: bdluckyshot Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649191 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 6:36 AM
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Shedding light into their character: what you did three years ago says much more than what you did 30 years ago.

Do you disagree?


Not at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRAMdUNo2Cg

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649193 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 6:53 AM
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Shedding light into their character: what you did three years ago says much more than what you did 30 years ago.

Do you disagree?
_________________

I know you did not ask me,

but what my accountant did with my taxes 3 years ago as long as it is legal. Versus what I did for myself 30 years ago, but more importantly what has been used a lot over the past 30 years as evidence by me and others of my character and ability????

YEs what I have used to show my character and ability for 30 years is more important than a tax return that someone will use to remove little tidbits from to make partisan attacks.

Frankly, I can not believe anyone believes that the evidence used for 30 years of someone's career as important is not an issue. Seems liek a fairly brutally dishonest talking point actually.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649205 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 9:26 AM
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hrse wrote: Shedding light into their character: what you did three years ago says much more than what you did 30 years ago. Do you disagree?

I think Obama's presence in U.S. politics was built on a lie.

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Author: fancifree Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649210 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 9:57 AM
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Shedding light into their character: what you did three years ago says much more than what you did 30 years ago.

Do you disagree?


I would agree. What Obama has done the past 4 years, 3 years, 2 years and 1 year rather speaks for itself. Based on that, I wouldn't want another 4 years.

Mitt Romney's tax returns from 3 years ago have not affected American voters one way or the other.

-Donna

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649218 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 10:52 AM
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Or is the point your making that Obama's college and other records from 30 years ago are just as important as your tax returns from three years ago?

Just as important as Romney being a bully about 55 years ago.

I find it funny (and both sides do this), military service isn't important until their guy was in the military (Gore then Kerry), college grades are important (remember Bush had better grades than both Gore and Kerry) until they aren't, question McCain about being born in Panama but can't provide an indisputable birth certificate, sanctity of marriage until our guy is on his second (Reagan), I didn't inhale (Clinton) is bad but being a recovering alcoholic/drug user isn't (Bush and Obama).

Politics has always been partisan but the hypocrisy seems to be at an all time high these days. Maybe its the 24/7 coverage and the "free press" of the internet. We are no longer spoon fed by 3 TV stations.

JLC

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649220 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 10:58 AM
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Shedding light into their character: what you did three years ago says much more than what you did 30 years ago.

Both, on the surface, are equal. However, I'd place more credence on the 30 years ago. Why? It lets me know if you've changed. Do you stand for the same things now as you did then? If not, why they change?

People's opinions and actions change. What is interesting and important is why. Republicans hold up Reagan as one of the ultimate conservative examples. But several years prior, he was not. And he explained why he changed.

So with Obama, I'm interested in what he was like 30 years ago. So far, his history is ephemeral and pliable because nothing can be nailed down. I distrust people that don't have a history.

JLC

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649228 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 11:16 AM
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fancifree wrote: What Obama has done the past 4 years, 3 years, 2 years and 1 year rather speaks for itself. Based on that, I wouldn't want another 4 years. Mitt Romney's tax returns from 3 years ago have not affected American voters one way or the other.

Excellent, Donna! Of course the practical reality is that every American acts first in his/her own enlightened self-interest. Therefore, a president should be elected BASED ON HIS RECORD and little else.

Obama's record stinks.

Romney's record is that of successful businessman and politician. I expect no less from him as President.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649277 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 1:33 PM
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Do you have a credible source for that? I doubt even Mitt Witt would be stupid enough to drag such tin-foil hat crap into facts-be-damned campaign.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649285 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 1:46 PM
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1poorguy wrote: Do you have a credible source for that?

A credible source for what--the facts in the post right above yours about Romney being a successful businessman?

Sure...here's a link with many credible citations.

http://www.aboutmittromney.com/business.htm

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649292 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 1:58 PM
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Wow. You really don't know anything about him, do you.

He started his business with a loan from rich daddy. He then proceeded to run it into the ground, and ended up lobbying for a bailout from the government. He got the bailout, and somehow also ended up with $10M from FDIC. He then proceeded to become a vulture capitalist, creating nothing but his own personal wealth.

Here's David Stockman (from the Reagan administration) with more on this:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/10/14/david-stock...

Except Mitt Romney was not a businessman; he was a master financial speculator who bought, sold, flipped, and stripped businesses. He did not build enterprises the old-fashioned way—out of inspiration, perspiration, and a long slog in the free market fostering a new product, service, or process of production. Instead, he spent his 15 years raising debt in prodigious amounts on Wall Street so that Bain could purchase the pots and pans and castoffs of corporate America, leverage them to the hilt, gussy them up as reborn “roll-ups,” and then deliver them back to Wall Street for resale—the faster the better.

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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649294 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:02 PM
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He then proceeded to become a vulture capitalist, creating nothing but his own personal wealth.

I had to stop here. I was laughing too hard to continue reading. This is the Obama campaign in a nutshell... demonize the other guy. Obama couldn't run a lemonade stand, but throws dirt on Romney's record.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649295 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:07 PM
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"He then proceeded to become a vulture capitalist, creating nothing but his own personal wealth"


Guess you never heard of Staples and Domino's pizza and lots of other businesses that Romney rescued.

Oh, how deluded you are!

or that most prominent dems owned a share of Bain Capital...the company that Romney ran!....(through their hedge funds they own)......




t.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649298 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:13 PM
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Sorry if I damaged your bubble. Your loss if you don't want to be educated. David Stockman worked under Reagan. Hardly a staunch Democrat. Quite the contrary, he was a Republican representative, worked in the Reagan administration, and is a Republican to this day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Stockman

He says Romney created nothing but debt (which he leveraged into his own personal wealth). You don't like it, take it up with David.

I have plenty of reasons not to vote for Romney, so this really didn't matter to me. But I do find it interesting how even with actual facts the Romney-great-businessman myth perseveres.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649299 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:19 PM
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Yes, 1poorguy, I'm aware of David Stockman's analysis, but Romney didn't start Bain Capital with a loan from his rich father. That is a myth.

Also, he didn't "run businesses, including Bain, into the ground." He conducted an analysis to determine if they were salvagable. If they weren't, they were sold. If they were, they were resuscitated. Fact.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649305 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:26 PM
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telegraph wrote: Guess you never heard of Staples and Domino's pizza and lots of other businesses that Romney rescued.

http://www.aboutmittromney.com/business.htm

By 1990, Bain & Co., the mother ship, was in dire straits because of excess debt. Founder William Bain asked Romney to return to the company as interim CEO to straighten things out. Romney tightened expenses, renegotiated loans, and improved morale. He returned the company to profitability within a year, before returning to lead Bain Capital.

2002 Olympics Committee leaders approached Romney about taking over the scandal-ridden 2002 Winter Olympics... the Salt Lake Olympics Organizing Committee (SLOC) had a projected shortfall of $397 million. With Romney at the helm, the games ended with a surplus of $56 million. The surplus money went to fund future Olympics.

Romney ran for governor of Massachusetts in 2002 on a platform of fiscal conservatism, promising to erase the state's $3 billion deficit. As the new governor, Romney consolidated state agencies, cut employees, and closed what he called loopholes in the corporate tax code. He also tackled the most difficult public policy issue of all, health insurance.

After raising $37 million in startup funds, Romney founded Bain Capital (sister firm to Bain & Co.) In addition to Staples, Bain Capital went on to help launch or acquire Domino's Pizza, Sealy, Brookstone, and The Sports Authority... Bain Capital now manages $40 billion.

Here are some audio clips of interviews with people who have personal experience with the resuscitative powers of Mitt Romney.

http://www.aboutmittromney.com/talk_show_hosts.htm#Larson

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649309 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:32 PM
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If you look at just four of the startups alone, they add up to more than 120,000 jobs:

Staples = 89,019 Employees (Staples, 10-K Report, Filed 2011)

The Sports Authority = 15,000+ Employees (Sports Authority, Press Release, 1/9/12)

Bright Horizons = 19,000 Employees (The Boston Globe, 11/6/11)

Steel Dynamics = 6,180 Employees (Steel Dynamics, 10-K Report, Filed 2011)

This doesn't even take into account any of the job growth under other companies Bain Capital invested in during Mitt Romney's tenure.

Some of the companies that Bain Capital invested in were struggling. The press has reportedly extensively on many of the cases where job losses occurred. While the campaign is not the source of these numbers, even looking at the totality of those numbers compared against just the four startups listed above, the net job growth is still over 100,000 jobs.

Press reports of job losses at Bain Capital-invested companies:

ADAP/Auto Palace: -20 jobs
AMF Bowling: -271 jobs*
AMPAD: -385 jobs
Closings Ltd.: -30 jobs
Dade International: -1,700 jobs
Ddi: -2,100 jobs*
EduServ Technologies: -400 jobs
FTD: -205 jobs
GS Industries: -750 jobs*
GT Bicycles: -100 jobs*
Handbag Holdings: -206 jobs
Holson Burnes: -294 jobs
The Learning Company: -500 jobs
LIVE Entertainment: -40 jobs
Midwest Of Cannon Falls: -40 jobs
MotherCare Stores: -100 jobs
Physio Control: -50 jobs
Transtar: -1,000 jobs
Waters Lab Technologies: -70 jobs
Wesley Jessen: -600 jobs

* (Indicates some job losses after Romney's tenure, which ended in February 1999 including during recessions after Bain no longer owned the companies.

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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649310 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:32 PM
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Your loss if you don't want to be educated

Stop it, stop it. You're killing me!!!!

BWHAAAAAA

I guess that's why so many people (like union pension funds) are giving assets to Bain to invest for them.

Too funny.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649311 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:36 PM
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1. Bain invested $1 billion in Dominos Pizza in 1998. Dominos had 1000 stores and 16,000 employees. Dominos now has 9000 stores and 145,000 employees and is worth $1.5 billion.

2. Bain invested in Sports Authority in 1987. Sports Authority now has 250 stores.

3. Bain acquired financially ailing Sealy mattress in 1997. Sealy restructured and now has 5000 employees and $300 million in annual revenue.

4. Bain invested in 200 + other companies including AMC Entertainment, Bombardier, Bright Horizons, Burlington Coat, Church's Chicken, Clear Channel Communications, Dominos, Gymboree, Harlem Globetrotters, Latrobe Specialty Steel, LinkedIn, Minute Clinic, Staples, The Weather Channel, Toys R Us, Vonage and about 190 more.

Isn't this what American business is all about?

FeedMeNowHuman? intercst? JoelCairo? Buehler? Anyone?

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649313 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:38 PM
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1poorguy, do you want more? Because there is more.

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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649316 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:43 PM
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1poorguy, do you want more? Because there is more.

I hope so, 'cuz I love being educated by liberals.


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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649317 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:46 PM
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1poorguy, do you want more? Because there is more.

I hope so, 'cuz I love being educated by liberals.
_____________________________

Yeah, I was just laughing at this one over on Conservative Fool. Obviously just another lib who likes to attempt to be obnoxious, but is so ill informed, he ends up entertaining

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649319 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 2:49 PM
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Records from the Freedom of Information Act reveal that Mitt did run the company into the ground, and then appealed for a bailout. There are several sources reporting it. Here's the first one I found:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-federal-bailou...

There are more if you're really interested.

In fact, government documents on the bailout obtained by Rolling Stone show that the legend crafted by Romney is basically a lie. The federal records, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, reveal that Romney's initial rescue attempt at Bain & Company was actually a disaster – leaving the firm so financially strapped that it had "no value as a going concern." Even worse, the federal bailout ultimately engineered by Romney screwed the FDIC – the bank insurance system backed by taxpayers – out of at least $10 million. And in an added insult, Romney rewarded top executives at Bain with hefty bonuses at the very moment that he was demanding his handout from the feds.

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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649327 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 3:11 PM
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Records from the Freedom of Information Act reveal that Mitt did run the company into the ground, and then appealed for a bailout.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that everything you post is true. Just for discussion's sake.

Since life is never 100% rosy and there are setbacks along the way, let's add up the other side of the ledger. Just read what CC wrote for the positives.

Now, let's compare Obama's "accomplishments." It's a very short list....




The blank space is intentional because he's done NOTHING other than rabble rouse and play the insider political game to line his pocket. Somehow, some way, Romney's flaws are soooooo terrible that they cancel out his accomplishments and leave him in negative territory?

For some reason, the total lack of Obama's experience at running ANYTHING is a non-issue, but failing occasionally at venture capitalism (a high risk/high reward endeavor) disqualifies him?

And that's just at Bain. What about the Olympics? What about balancing the budget in MA?

And then you wonder why I laugh at you? Please stop trying to "educate" me.


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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649329 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 3:13 PM
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Let's try this again...

Records from the Freedom of Information Act reveal that Mitt did run the company into the ground, and then appealed for a bailout.


For the sake of discussion, let's assume that everything you post is true. Just for discussion's sake.

Since life is never 100% rosy and there are setbacks along the way, let's add up the other side of the ledger. Just read what CC wrote for the positives.

Now, let's compare Obama's "accomplishments." It's a very short list....




The blank space is intentional because he's done NOTHING other than rabble rouse and play the insider political game to line his pocket. Somehow, some way, Romney's flaws are soooooo terrible that they cancel out his accomplishments and leave him in negative territory?

For some reason, the total lack of Obama's experience at running ANYTHING is a non-issue, but failing occasionally at venture capitalism (a high risk/high reward endeavor) disqualifies him?

And that's just at Bain. What about the Olympics? What about balancing the budget in MA?

And then you wonder why I laugh at you? Please stop trying to "educate" me.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649339 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 3:56 PM
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...but failing occasionally at venture capitalism (a high risk/high reward endeavor) disqualifies him?

Not necessarily. It does reveal his hypocrisy (bailouts good for him, but not for anyone else). Also, the Stockman analysis shows he really created nothing. He leveraged companies into bankruptcy, and reaped profits from that. Arguably that shouldn't be possible, but it's not his fault that it was possible. The myth is that he was a job creator. He may have created a few, but mostly he destroyed. If success is measured strictly by dollars, then his $250M argues for his success. But at least one should understand how he really got that money. It wasn't as some captain of industry. It was as a scavenger. Not a creator.

I'd have more respect for him if he had been honest about that.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649349 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 5:01 PM
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1poorguy wrote: I'd have more respect for him if he had been honest about that.

I'd have more respect for you if you could read English.

I posted enough credible citations for you to decisively conclude that Romney is, IN FACT, an accomplished businessman of high integrity with literally hundreds of business successes to his credit.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649351 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 5:06 PM
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1poorguy wrote: I'd have more respect for him if he had been honest about that.

I'd have more respect for you if you could read English.

I posted enough credible citations for you to decisively conclude that Romney is, IN FACT, an accomplished businessman of high integrity with literally hundreds of business successes to his credit.
___________________________

Much like when they visit Conservative Fool. Liberals do not come here to exchange ideas with you, they come here to lecture you.
They will take what you say, and parse out a few thoughts in order to create a springboard for their canned nonsense.
THEY KNOW YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY, you are not a liberal, so there is not any way you can have anything intelligent to say, or else you would agree with them on every issue.

It is not like the pattern does not repeat with a very inconsequential margin for error.

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649355 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 5:11 PM
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Nothing can be nailed down with Obama?

Have you listened to any of the critisism of Mitt? That is the basis of most of it. It was the drum beat during the primarires, it was the drum beat four years ago and it was even mentioned once or twice when Kennedy beat him in the senate seat.

What kind of character assesment can you get out of his passport status?

Has Mitt released any of his college records? They are not on the same site as his tax returns. Where are they?

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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649356 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 5:18 PM
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you are not a liberal, so there is not any way you can have anything intelligent to say, or else you would agree with them on every issue.

Liberals spent an inordinate amount of time straining to find the splinter in the conservative's eye (even if they have to make it up), but are surprisingly unconcerned about the forest of beams in their own.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649357 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 5:22 PM
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Liberals spent an inordinate amount of time straining to find the splinter in the conservative's eye (even if they have to make it up), but are surprisingly unconcerned about the forest of beams in their own.
__________________

The idea that Obama called Libya a terrorist attack in the Rose Garden the day after is an amazing doozy

If he did that, then you have to explain why days later and for a period of two weeks, he changed his mind and had his administration defend that is was a spontaneous reaction to a movie!

That would be fun to watch. Because well, that is what happened if they are telling the truth. IT is simply awe inspiring how someone can find that ending up their actual opinion and not sit back for a second and wonder if perhaps well 'Houston we have a problem'

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649358 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 5:22 PM
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I was not paying as close attention to politics when Gore ran, but I don't recall anyone from the left making much to do about Kerry's service.

It was pointed out that 43 got special treatment to avoid service, and then failed to fulfill the requirements for that.

But nothing like what McCain did to tout his service. However I clearly was biased in both those campaigns, and although I woudl nto be surpised to find out that both touted their service about the same (or even if McCain did less), I am not going to just take your word for it.

Funny story, when McCain was running I was talking to a distant relative who said "Who cares about Palin, I am voting for McCain because I always vote for the Vet!" It took 2 seconds to ask if he really voted for Kerry, and he said "that was different".

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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649359 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 5:27 PM
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The idea that Obama called Libya a terrorist attack in the Rose Garden the day after is an amazing doozy

If he did that, then you have to explain why days later and for a period of two weeks, he changed his mind and had his administration defend that is was a spontaneous reaction to a movie!


I know. This is why I just wash my hands of them. Logically, it does not follow to correctly label Libya a terrorist attack on Day One, but then call it something else in following days. Why would Obama do that?

But all that matters is the narrative. Sometimes I feel embarassed for them.

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649364 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 5:51 PM
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2002 Olympics Committee leaders approached Romney about taking over the scandal-ridden 2002 Winter Olympics... the Salt Lake Olympics Organizing Committee (SLOC) had a projected shortfall of $397 million. With Romney at the helm, the games ended with a surplus of $56 million. The surplus money went to fund future Olympics.

Those future Olympics that Romney's success funded no doubt included the one Obama went begging to the Olympic Committee to have held in Chicago.

Can you imagine what would have happened if Obama had taken over the Olympics? He would have gotten Nancy Pelosi to write a 2,000-page Olympic Reform Act that forced every American to buy a ticket or pay a tax, while its debt would have doubled while Obama spent all his time blaming the previous Olympic leadership when he wasn't playing golf.

--fleg

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649365 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 6:01 PM
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Can you imagine what would have happened if Obama had taken over the Olympics?
______________________

Actually it would likely have been kind of interesting

The guys from Norway would be wearing ankle weights to make skiing events more fair

The Swedish team would be wearing blindfolds while they were skiing around and shooting stuff

Once thinks were made more to Obama's liking the Jamaican bobled team would have had a much better chance of meddling

(what a wonderful chance to be a racist and use a real example at the same time, I do so try to make Joel happy)

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649377 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 6:27 PM
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lowstudent wrote: The idea that Obama called Libya a terrorist attack in the Rose Garden the day after is an amazing doozy

Voters saw right through the Empty Chair.

Luntz Focus Group Of Mostly Former Obama Voters Switch To Romney

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/16/luntz_focu...

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649386 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 6:54 PM
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I can read. I would ask you the same, but I'm trying to be more civil. Especially since this isn't one of my usual boards.

The first item at your link was the "rescue Bain & Co". The FoIA I mentioned (and was discussed in the article I linked) clearly shows he failed at that. It was not a "going concern". What he succeeded at was getting a federal bail-out. If that's a "success", then I guess we have different definitions of the word. Yes, Bain survived. Because Mitt begged for a hand-out (and got it). From there it was LBOs (basically gambling, per Stockman) in a growing bubble. I'd like to see him have tried it since about 2005 (it would have blown up in his face).

Obviously your link is a fan-boy site. The links within it go to "mittromney.com" and other similar sites. I don't regard it as credible. Not that it is (necessarily) lying, but more likely it is omitting huge amounts of information (like the federal bail-out - not mentioned). Get me some NYT, WashPo, or other more reputable source and I'll be less skeptical.**

My link was David Stockman, someone who is NOT pro-Democrat, analyzing Mitt's business. I can't speak to his motives, but I sincerely doubt they were to support Obama. If you can find errors in there, by all means...

1poorguy

**I did notice one WashPo reference, which was pro-Romney insomuch as they were criticizing an anti-Romney video for factual errors...which is good. The video was produced by pro-Gingrich forces, so cannot be blamed on "libs" as seems to be popular on this board.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649387 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 7:16 PM
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1poorguy, why are you so jealous of success?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/romney/realmitt.asp

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649388 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 7:27 PM
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I'm not. You're pivoting. You didn't address my point (or the article) at all.

However, thanks for the Snopes link. It is interesting. Some good, some bad. And with credible sources (Snopes usually does have those).

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649390 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 7:44 PM
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1poorguy, this is the way I look at it: it's not disingenuous to accept FDIC "bail out" money--if in fact that did occur; I'd have to see bona fide FoIA documents with my own eyes--and STILL be opposed to bail out money on the scale that Obama instituted TARP.

TARP was an extraordinary use of taxpayer funds. Most of the money was wasted. Much of it will never be repaid. A lot of it went to union thugs. AND it was borrowed!!

Bain, on the other hand, repaid every penny, with interest. You can be sure of that even without confirmation.

As to "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt," did you know that newspaper editors routinely compose article headlines? Sometimes they do a rotten job of it, too. I know a syndicated columnist who constantly complains that newspaper editor-selected titles bear scant resemblance to the contents of his articles.

In the case of Romney's op-ed in The New York Times, Romney suggested a structured Chapter 11 bankruptcy EXACTLY LIKE the bailout EXCEPT THAT taxpayers were not on the hook for the intended result! That Romney advocated that "Detroit go bankrupt" is therefore an extreme lie perpetrated by The New York Times!

Thanks to the liberal press, Americans aren't fully informed about what's really at stake in this election. It's tragic.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649393 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 8:04 PM
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1poorguy, this is the way I look at it: it's not disingenuous to accept FDIC "bail out" money--if in fact that did occur; I'd have to see bona fide FoIA documents with my own eyes--and STILL be opposed to bail out money on the scale that Obama instituted TARP.

By itself, no it's not. But he then turns around and criticizes the GM bailout (for the record, so did I...but I never took a bail-out of my own). However, if you have a link to the NYT you mentioned, I would be interested. Also, I would want to see confirmation if you are asserting that Bain repaid their bail-out.

And TARP was Bush, not Obama. Signed by Bush in October 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program

That said, I think if they had structured it properly it would have worked better. But enabling executives to get their fat bonuses was not helpful.

Interesting that you think the press is liberal, and I think it is just apathetic (i.e. not reporting aggressively on lots of stuff the way they used to do). Sure, individual outlets are liberal (or conservative), but I don't see an overall bias across the media one way or the other.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649394 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 8:07 PM
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"Can you imagine what would have happened if Obama had taken over the Olympics?"


Yep.

Everyone would have had a handicap based upon their previous events. Nr 1 in the world? biggest penalty.....you'd have to 'beat your own record' handily to 'win'.


Diving? crowd would have to jeer based upon the current world standing. There could be no 'crowd favorite'. that would be banned.

Only the bottom 10% of athletes could appear on network TV to 'encourage them'.

only events in which minority race winners from their country/continent could be broadcast in prime time.

Only corporate 'green sponsors' and 'healthy food' makers would be allowed to buy prime time TV ads.



t.

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Author: wolverine307 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649400 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 8:21 PM
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1poorguy, why are you so jealous of success?

Poor self-esteem.

It is easier to be angry at those who work hard and sacrifice than it is to look in the mirror, accept responsibility for your situation, and fix it.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649403 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 8:57 PM
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Here's Romney's op-ed in 2008. I sense he knows what he's talking about. Notice how many times he said "managed bankruptcy" but the media projected it as Chapter 7 (liquidation).

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html

Insofar as TARP signed by Bush, not Obama; yes, that's right, but the MONEY WAS SPENT by Obama. Lots of money! More money than was spent by all administrations before Obama COMBINED!

I'm AMAZED you don't see liberal biased across all of journalism.

You must be young.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649438 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/17/2012 11:26 PM
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I'm AMAZED you don't see liberal biased across all of journalism.

You must be young.


Nope. I remember Stockman. I voted for Goldwater (as senator...I was alive but too young when he ran for POTUS). I voted for Reagan. I'm not on SS yet, but I have more years behind me than ahead of me.

And, no, I don't see an overall liberal bias. MSNBC, yeah. Some news websites, yes. Lots more are seriously right-wing (FOX most notably).

I'm actually enjoying journalists finally getting into fact-checking again, and calling candidates on their lies. Been a long time since they did that. I do not believe that facts have a "liberal bias". Facts are facts. Whether they support my (or your) position or not.

Thanks for the link, and the civil discussion. It's nice not yelling at each other.

The money was spent by Obama, or some of it was. But it was still appropriated by Bush (and I believe the first series of outlays were his). My biggest gripe about it is that it didn't go to infrastructure and jobs, but instead went into saving financial institutions that were responsible for the mess in the first place. It saved fat-cats, not jobs. Far too much of it was wasted on them and their bonuses, while they refused to lend and watched foreclosures skyrocket.

But if you look at is in terms of growth of debt, Obama has reduced growth. Under Bush it averaged about 16%, under Obama it's about 13%. Not nearly good enough, but given an intransigent Congress it's still a positive. Hopefully the next four years will show real progress. Though, frankly, I'm not counting on it because I don't think either party has the political courage to really tackle the problem.

1poorguy

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649495 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/18/2012 9:56 AM
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Nothing can be nailed down with Obama?

Now you're starting to catch on.

Something as simple as his college transcripts won't be released? Why? Did he received a bunch of "in completes" , just like he gave himself on the economy? Were all of his electives on Marxist/Communism? We don't know. What is he hiding?

Just like Gore claiming to be smarter than Bush, until we find out he flunked out of divinity school. Seriously?


What kind of character assesment can you get out of his passport status?

A few simple things. One, is he really who he says he is. I'm not talking about Barry vs. Barack. I'm talking Dunham vs. Soetoro vs. Obama vs. others. If a name change, when and why? Two, did he go where he said he went? You would have to have the physical original to know. And not everywhere did you have to show a passport. Three, does he really have a passport from the USA?

Now I admit some of these sound conspiracy theory bent, but for someone that isn't too forth coming on what should be easily documentable/verifiable history, I start to wonder what they're hiding.

Its like when I interview a patient that keeps answering, its all in the records you can find it there. And its 2AM and the old records are locked up, so no, I can't find it. I'm left with one of two conclusions, the patient is either stupid or is trying to hide something they are embarassed about.

JLC

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649520 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/18/2012 10:34 AM
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Something as simple as his college transcripts won't be released? Why? Did he received a bunch of "in completes" , just like he gave himself on the economy? Were all of his electives on Marxist/Communism? We don't know. What is he hiding? - JLC

-------------

I have read speculation that the reason is that his college records would reflect he applied as a foreign student...

Not that that matters so much, there is plenty of reasons not to re-elect him without going there.

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649589 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/18/2012 1:42 PM
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What eer you hope to gleem from these obscure documents seems nothing to tax returns from the last 10 years.


Further, if these documents are important, then why hasn't Mitt released his?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649595 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/18/2012 1:50 PM
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"I have read speculation that the reason is that his college records would reflect he applied as a foreign student...

Not that that matters so much, there is plenty of reasons not to re-elect him without going there. "

If he were a foreign student....and it was 'true' he would not be a US natural born citizen and not eligible to be president.

It's quite probably he got a 'foreign student' preference and financial aid based upon that.....as well as being a minority race member.....



t.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649684 of 744749
Subject: Re: Romney's Answer Date: 10/18/2012 8:44 PM
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It was pointed out that 43 got special treatment to avoid service, and then failed to fulfill the requirements for that.

It was also pointed out that the allegation of initial special treatment was unproven and lacking evidence that probably (but not necessarily) would have existed if it were true.

And that all the appropriate documents were in place showing that he had fulfilled all the requirements of his National Guard service.

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