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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 757793  
Subject: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/9/2013 8:42 PM
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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are CREATED EQUAL; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

--Declaration of Independence


Emancipation Proclamation of Preborn Children
NOW THEREFORE, I, RONALD REAGAN, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim and declare the unalienable personhood of every American, from the moment of conception until natural death, and I do proclaim, ordain, and declare that I will take care that the Constitution and laws of the United States are faithfully executed for the protection of America's unborn children. Upon this act, sincerely believed to be an act of justice, warranted by the Constitution, I invoke the considerate judgment of mankind and the gracious favor of Almighty God. I also proclaim Sunday, January 17, 1988, as a national Sanctity of Human Life Day. I call upon the citizens of this blessed land to gather on that day in their homes and places of worship to give thanks for the gift of life they enjoy and to reaffirm their commitment to the dignity of every human being and sanctity of every human life.

Ronald Reagan
Presidential Proclamation
January 14, 1988
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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665472 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/9/2013 8:45 PM
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Following are a few other brief excerpts from his comments.

My Administration is dedicated to the preservation of America as a free land, and there is no cause more important for preserving that freedom than affirming the transcendent right to life of all human beings, the right without which no other rights have any meaning.

"Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation"

First Appeared in: The Human Life Review Spring 1983

Every legislator, every doctor, and every citizen needs to recognize that the real issue is whether to affirm and protect the sanctity of all human life, or to embrace a social ethic where some human lives are valued and others are not. As a nation, we must choose between the sanctity of life ethic and the "quality of life" ethic.

IBID

The real question today is not when human life begins, but, What is the value of human life? The abortionist who reassembles the arms and legs of a tiny baby to make sure all its parts have been torn from its mother's body can hardly doubt whether it is a human being. The real question for him and for all of us is whether that tiny human life has a God-given right to be protected by the law -- the same right we have.

IBID

I have often said that when we talk about abortion, we are talking about two lives -- the life of the mother and the life of the unborn child. Why else do we call a pregnant woman a mother? I have also said that anyone who doesn't feel sure whether we are talking about a second human life should clearly give life the benefit of the doubt. If you don't know whether a body is alive or dead, you would never bury it. I think this consideration itself should be enough for all of us to insist on protecting the unborn.

IBID

A Senate committee hearing was held recently to determine, if we can, when life actually begins. And there was exhaustive testimony of experts presenting both views, and finally the result was declared inconclusive. They couldn't arrive at an answer. Well, in my view alone, they did arrive at an answer, an answer that justifies the proposed (human life) legislation. If it's true we don't know when the unborn becomes a human life, then we have to opt in favor that it is a human life until someone proves it isn't.

Remarks at the Centennial Meeting of the Supreme Council of the Knights of Columbus

Hartford, CT 8/3/82

And I just happen to believe that simple morality dictates that unless and until someone can prove the unborn human is not alive, we must give it the benefit of the doubt and assume it is. And thus, it should be entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Remarks at the Alfred M. Landon Lecture Series on Public Issues
Manhattan, KS 9/9/82

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665475 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/9/2013 8:50 PM
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http://www.amazon.com/Abortion-Conscience-Nation-New-issue/d...

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665478 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/9/2013 9:01 PM
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Quoted: I also proclaim Sunday, January 17, 1988, as a national Sanctity of Human Life Day.

How far we've declined.

Planned Parenthood sets record for abortions and government funding
http://blog.heritage.org/2013/01/09/planned-parenthood-sets-...

While Planned Parenthood affiliates performed a record number of abortions in 2011--[one every 96 seconds]--the organization made only 2,300 adoption referrals and provided fewer than 30,000 prenatal services. Roughly 40 percent of the organization’s reported contraceptive services last year were the provision of more than 1.4 million emergency contraception kits, which many believe can cause an abortion in early pregnancy. To solidify its place as the top abortion provider, Planned Parenthood recently announced that all local affiliates would have to begin providing abortion services starting in 2013.

[Over 54 million unborn babies have been lost to abortion since 1973, the year abortion was legalized in the US.]

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665480 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/9/2013 9:03 PM
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God bless Ronaldus Magnus.

WWRD?

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665550 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 11:15 AM
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how many people know someone who has had an abortion?

how many women have had unprotected sex with a man?

how many girls?

how many knows of a woman/girl who died during childbirth?

how many people know uneducated and poor females and males with kids?

how many people know of the abused and/or addicted kids of these pairings?

how many people would be willing to adopt?

how many people see the afflicted and now adult offspring of these pairings and how they interact in society?

life is life that is true, but to bring life into a situation where chances are great their lives will be filled with misery of some sort and not the loving, caring homes we all want for them is not fair either.

I liken it to having cats and dogs breed at will and their offspring running all over creation to be run over, get diseases, be tormented, to starve, to fight and to be used in all sorts of horrid things. That is not the life I would want for any creature, human or animal. There is no outcry when puppies and kittens are aborted, or drowned, thrown away like ragdolls in trash cans or on the side of the road. If life is precious, all life is precious.

LuckyDog

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665555 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 11:22 AM
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LD wrote: There is no outcry when puppies and kittens are aborted, or drowned, thrown away like ragdolls in trash cans or on the side of the road. If life is precious, all life is precious.

People are not dogs.

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665560 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 11:43 AM
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LD wrote: There is no outcry when puppies and kittens are aborted, or drowned, thrown away like ragdolls in trash cans or on the side of the road. If life is precious, all life is precious.

People are not dogs.
cc


I knew someone would raise that issue and I'm sorry it is you.

All life is precious in God's eyes.

and that's all my input on the subject.

Abortion and gay rights issue has torn apart people of all faiths, ages and income levels and I might add the Republican and Democratic Party.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665562 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 11:48 AM
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People are not dogs.
______________________

Sorry LD, I gotta agree

Further, there are lots of folks living lives I would not wish on them, and yet I would not kill any of them either.

I just think this is not a simple thing and both sides think it is simpler than it is.

I think one of the things I see running through your post is the idea that there is a lot of abortion and a lot of unwanted pregnancy etc, we really have to deal with that. At one time there really was not. I think we would be much better off if we were back in a time of 'when there was not'

Can we put the genie back in the bottle? Can't say, but we have lots of societal issues where we damn well better find ways to do just that.

Some call it going backwards. To me that is an asinine thought. Going from what does not work to what does, is PROGRESS, every time, even if you need to progress back to what worked.

But, but , but if we did that there would be backroom abortions or some other bad --- No kidding? There will ALWAYS be SOME bad, the idea is to find the solution with the least bad.

Plus I admit, I have a kernel of a problem with punishing the innocent, I have a very hard time diserning a difference other than location for an infant and a -6 week old -- so we draw a line? Where 6 weeks 1 day -- what difference does one day make?

I always say this issue is simplest for the folks like CC who see this as human life, day 1. That's not a knock or a kudo, just a fact. They may be right, the it is not a human crowd? Their logic is so all over the place I have real problems with them, though parts of it make sense.

It is just one complicated issue IMO

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665568 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 11:59 AM
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All life is precious in God's eyes.

Personally, I don't think God thinks a dog or cat is as precious as a human. I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think so. Bible history would suggest not, as animals were directed to be used as sacrifices, whereas humans were not.

LD, I understand you have a big heart for animals. I love that about you. My two sisters are the same way, but people can (and do) go overboard in their devotion to animals. Sometimes their feelings that animals are precious can ruin the humans' lives. Examples abound.

Of course, the opposite is true, too. Pets enhance and bring deep joy to our daily lives. I often think about getting a pet. Can't stand the shedding, however.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665569 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 12:09 PM
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I knew someone would raise that issue and I'm sorry it is you.

All life is precious in God's eyes.
______________________

I would like to put in also, I do support (actively) no kill shelters and neutering/spaying efforts.

I do think all life is precious, but I'll still eat a steak or chicken parm. I do think human life is different.

I happen to think abortion and gay rights is not what has torn apart the two parties BTW, but a massive distraction of what has torn them apart.

I wish the Republicans could find a way to cater to the religious folks who need the freedom for religion without catering to their demands about the behavior of others. It is not onlt bad politics IMO, it ticks me off personally. But that said, there are reasons beyond religion for certain policies that happen to track with the religious and the Dems distort a lot over than IMO.
The effort to deal with the religious, a natural pro freedom constituency that would be naturally Republican today IMO, has been one of the most ham handed and stupid efforts in the history of politics.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665573 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 12:18 PM
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I wish the Republicans could find a way to cater to the religious folks who need the freedom for religion without catering to their demands about the behavior of others.

In my opinion, sin is sin. If Republicans think homosexuality is sin, they should leave the judging to God and step aside on this issue.

Likewise, abortion. Widespread and readily accepted abortion is a human catastrophe, in my opinion. While it's not my place to judge, I can still voice my opinion. My opinion is that it won't surprise me when infanticide emerges as equally acceptable.

If history is any indication, God will not tolerate much more of the human race.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665579 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 1:15 PM
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In my opinion, sin is sin. If Republicans think homosexuality is sin, they should leave the judging to God and step aside on this issue.

Likewise, abortion. Widespread and readily accepted abortion is a human catastrophe, in my opinion. While it's not my place to judge, I can still voice my opinion. My opinion is that it won't surprise me when infanticide emerges as equally acceptable.

If history is any indication, God will not tolerate much more of the human race.
____________________________

IT is not that simple.

Such as homosexuality, how do you step aside when you want government to sanction it?

Could it and should it, have been handled earlier and smarter and more strategically. Separating the various benefits and situations granted by government from marriage? The entire idea of a partnership that endowed all the legal framework of marriage could have solved a lot of tough situations earlier and better IMO

If abortion is murder it is not a religious issue. It is a matter of judging when human life begins, I do not know how this could have been handled differently, with the exception of making a real effort long ago to separate it from religion. I keep coming back to Reagan on this one, it was not a religious issue for the biggest most powerful advocate government has ever seen.

It is a lot of small things, where they really had to manage the perception not necessarily concede the issue. The question becomes are all moral religion? The answer is clearly NO. The issues had to be separated from religion, and they were not.

Every society legislates morality to some degree. Most religion's positions are based on something they see will benefit the community. The case has to or doesn't have to, but should have been always made away from religion. If you can not make the case without 'God' then you know government damn well does not belong there.

The Republicans did a horrendous job, not necessarily at picking issues, but at framing them.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665581 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 1:30 PM
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If you cannot make the case without 'God' then you know government damn well does not belong there. The Republicans did a horrendous job, not necessarily at picking issues, but at framing them.

I'd have to agree.

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665678 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 7:34 PM
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all life is precious.

LuckyDog


---------------

except for fire ants and mosquitos

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665681 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 7:38 PM
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all life is precious.

LuckyDog

---------------

except for fire ants and mosquitos
bhm

>>>>>>>

they have a purpose but I don't want to be their meal ticket. :)

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665694 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 10:22 PM
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I wonder if Reagan could win a Republican Primary today.

JediG

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665707 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/10/2013 11:38 PM
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I wonder if Reagan could win a Republican Primary today.

JediG


I think he would be ashamed to be a member of the party of such gutless wimps who weren't smart enough to use the leverage they had and were outmaneuvered at every step, backed themselves into a corner, conveyed weakness, and didn't have the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing. Who would want to lead a bunch sorry RINO's in the first place?

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665740 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 6:39 AM
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I wonder if Reagan could win a Republican Primary today.

JediG

I think he would be ashamed to be a member of the party of such gutless wimps who weren't smart enough to use the leverage they had and were outmaneuvered at every step, backed themselves into a corner, conveyed weakness, and didn't have the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing. Who would want to lead a bunch sorry RINO's in the first place?
___________________________

You are talking very much about the Republican Party that had just lost to Carter.

Could Reagan win today? With relative ease. Folks from too far left and too religious and too stupid to understand the Reagan strategy of not attacking fellow Republicans all try to act is if they are Reagan.


They all foolishly think it was persona. He was a non-religious person who captured the morality that existed in Americans that is still there. He also understood he had to actively battle the press. He was not passive in defense.

Yes Reagan could win today. He understood and used the pulpit he was handed and would have done so as a candidate for the nomination. He had the money from connections to not get blown away by another candidates money alone.

No problem IMO

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665772 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 9:48 AM
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My opinion is that it won't surprise me when infanticide emerges as equally acceptable.

http://www.usbible.com/Sacrifice/sacrifice_israel.htm

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665778 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 10:14 AM
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Obama has already been on record as supporting infanticide. He believes that once a baby is born but survived an abortion attempt, it can still be murdered.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665779 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 10:14 AM
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[Ronald Reagan] was a non-religious person who captured the morality that existed in Americans that is still there.

Where did you get this idea?

Supported by Ronald Reagan’s own words and writings plus firsthand interviews with his family, friends, and co-workers, Brown weaves a magnificent story that inspires as it informs. Reagan’s strong devotion to God will encourage believers to enter public service, allowing their faith to motivate their actions, and will draw focus to Christ’s matchless sacrifice–forever near and dear to President Reagan’s heart.

http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Ronald-Reagan-Mary-Brown/dp/1595...

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665793 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 10:45 AM
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That's an excellent resource, warrl. Thank you.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665812 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 11:12 AM
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[Ronald Reagan] was a non-religious person who captured the morality that existed in Americans that is still there.

Where did you get this idea?
_______________________________

From what I know he did not attend any church not did he follow and person or church's agenda

Yes he did occasionally get together with Graham, but that really was a natural for a political leader.

I guess if you want to define belief in God as religious, then he was a religious man, that is clearly evident.

However, fealty to any religion or it's doctrine? It is simply not there from what I know.

So we may be working from different definition of 'religious'.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665826 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 11:47 AM
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Reagan didn't attend church while in office as he felt it would endanger the churches that he attended. He also felt he did not want to distract the church goers from their services. He did attend the annual prayer meetings. He made a point of not wearing his religion on his sleeve.

When he lived in southern CA, he attended Bel Air Presbyterian Church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvN1jTkzXbY

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665856 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 2:03 PM
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all life is precious.

LuckyDog

---------------

except for fire ants and mosquitos


There are a few things threatened with extinction that nobody seems to miss much... tuberculosis, polio, measles...

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Author: TheBaronAndrew Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665967 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 10:12 PM
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There is no outcry when puppies and kittens are aborted, or drowned, thrown away like ragdolls in trash cans or on the side of the road. If life is precious, all life is precious.


I remember back when I was a teenager, my aunt's cat Spot (who also happened to be the mother of my Charlie) gave birth to a litter of kittens, and my uncle drowned them in the kitchen sink.

Spot, apparently, knew what he did, and her mind seemed to snap after that. She became a rather mean cat. And next time she gave birth, she had them all under my uncle's bed, abandoned them there and then left the house.

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Author: TheBaronAndrew Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665969 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 10:21 PM
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all life is precious.

LuckyDog

---------------

except for fire ants and mosquitos



I myself was thinking along the lines of cockroaches, bedbugs, bacteria, and viruses.

I actually admire ants, as long as they're not bothering me. They're very industrious, hard-working, productive creatures. I respect that.

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 665972 of 757793
Subject: Re: Ronald Reagan Date: 1/11/2013 10:39 PM
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all life is precious.

LuckyDog

---------------

except for fire ants and mosquitos


I myself was thinking along the lines of cockroaches, bedbugs, bacteria, and viruses.

I actually admire ants, as long as they're not bothering me. - andrew


------------------

I never had a problem with ants until I moved to Texas. Fire ants do not leave you alone. They bite the crap out of you at every opportunity. They should be tasered into extinction.

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