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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 746084  
Subject: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/18/2012 12:27 AM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-debates-missing-t...

What we heard in the second presidential debate was President Obama and Mitt Romney not discussing the nation’s future. Almost every expert agrees that controlling health costs is the crux of curing chronic budget deficits. Health-care spending already exceeds a quarter of federal outlays. With Obamacare’s coverage of the uninsured starting in 2014 and retiring baby boomers flooding into Medicare, the share is headed toward a third. Neither Obama nor Romney uttered a word about how to tame health spending.

And then there’s the “fiscal cliff” — the roughly $600 billion of spending cuts and tax increases scheduled for early 2013 that, if allowed to take effect, would almost certainly plunge the economy back into recession. Not a peep from either on how to avoid the cliff: which tax increases or spending cuts should be postponed, why and for how long; and how to win congressional support from the other party.

Americans face a rude awakening: a future that hasn’t been acknowledged and debated in the campaign.


Makes one think that voting fer the lesser of two evil ain't working.
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Author: NevadaGolfer Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649468 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/18/2012 4:25 AM
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It doesn't help that often we elect the most evil guy.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649470 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/18/2012 6:48 AM
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Makes one think that voting fer the lesser of two evil ain't working.

I had already made that determination before the 2004 election, which is when I committed to never again vote for someone that I wouldn't want to see in office, even if he/she is better than the alternative.

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649487 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/18/2012 9:31 AM
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I had already made that determination before the 2004 election, which is when I committed to never again vote for someone that I wouldn't want to see in office, even if he/she is better than the alternative.

I haven't quit reached that point, yet. Although I haven't voted FOR a President since Reagan in '84. The rest has been more AGAINST the other guy. Also, I think if you don't vote, you have no right to complain about what is going on.

JLC, who is constantly looking for a viable 3rd party.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649607 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/18/2012 2:33 PM
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I had already made that determination before the 2004 election, which is when I committed to never again vote for someone that I wouldn't want to see in office, even if he/she is better than the alternative.

I haven't quit reached that point, yet. Although I haven't voted FOR a President since Reagan in '84. The rest has been more AGAINST the other guy. Also, I think if you don't vote, you have no right to complain about what is going on.


I disagree with the "if you don't vote, you have no right to complain about what is going on" philosophy. We have the right to complain about anything we want, whether we vote or not. I'm certainly not going to vote for a candidate that I don't like merely so others will think it gives me the "right" to complain.

In fact, I think you have exactly backwards. If anyone shouldn't have the "right" to complain, it should be those who voted for people who are "the lesser of two evils" and are part of the problem.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649628 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/18/2012 3:55 PM
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Quoted: Americans face a rude awakening: a future that hasn’t been acknowledged and debated in the campaign.

Wha...?

Romney is hoarse from ticking off time after time what's happening in this country:

Welfare up
Poverty up (especially among women)
Unemployment up
Labor force down
Productivity down
Food stamp usage up
Disability claims up
Deficit up

The list goes on and on, yet libruls STILL can't see what's happening to this country.

It doesn't MATTER who caused it. During the last four years, the Chief Executive of this country has FAILED to turn his "company" around. In the real world, this is grounds for dismissal.

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649681 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/18/2012 8:30 PM
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In fact, I think you have exactly backwards. If anyone shouldn't have the "right" to complain, it should be those who voted for people who are "the lesser of two evils" and are part of the problem.

Yep the republican party will lead us to bankruptcy just like the democrats just at slower pace.

Does any really think Romney will cut any spending? I don't. And even he wished to the democrats will be able to block any legislation. The last filibuster proof senate was in 1977. And the democrats controlled that senate. The last time the republican controlled a filibuster proof congress was 1929.

We're toast as long as either democrats OR republicans remain in power. I view elections as entertainment distraction just as the circuses were a distraction for the Roman masses.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649685 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/18/2012 9:08 PM
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tjscott wrote: Does any really think Romney will cut any spending?

Yes. He'll do on a larger scale what he did in Massachusetts and the Olympics.

Just watch.

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649690 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/18/2012 10:20 PM
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he did in Massachusetts

You mean he tried.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/09/nation/la-na-romney-...

• The Legislature overrode most of Romney's spending vetoes.

• State spending rose by 22% on Romney's watch, nearly double the rate of inflation.

• Romney increased corporate taxes and state fees by $750 million a year, outstripping his tax cuts.


I expect a Romney victory will result in similar lack of performance in the area of cutting spending.Resulting in a wave of buyer's remorse in a few years. Similar to librul remorse in Obama when I have pointed out to them bout Quatamamo ain't closed.We're still in Afghanistan. Obama support of NATO action in Libya. Obama renewal of Patriot Act. Purty much business as usual.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649697 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/19/2012 12:51 AM
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Also in the article:

Romney was unsparing in his vetoes, risking political fallout far and wide. He reduced allocations for state police and local sheriff's departments. He deleted spending on suicide prevention, emergency food aid, job training, higher education, treatment for gambling addiction and services for victims of sexual assault and domestic violence. His rationale was simple: The state couldn't afford it.

"During the time of greatest crisis, in '03 and '04, when revenues were collapsing and costs were out of control, Gov. Romney came in with strong medicine that really worked," said Eric Kriss, who was Romney's secretary of finance and administration.

Romney did leave office with a replenished rainy-day fund, thanks partly to a surge in capital gains taxes paid by investors in a rising stock market.

But his ability to gain support for his fiscal agenda was limited, in part by his reluctance to engage with a Legislature that he viewed as tainted by patronage and corruption. Tom Finneran, a Democrat who was House speaker from 1996 to 2004, said Romney made less effort than his Republican predecessors to work with the opposition.

____

Maybe Romney will luck out and maintain the Republican majority in the House.

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649703 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/19/2012 2:20 AM
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I expect a Romney victory will result in similar lack of performance in the area of cutting spending.Resulting in a wave of buyer's remorse in a few years.

Sometimes I think it would be better in the long run if Obama wins. After four more years of him, Democrats won't be able to get elected dog catcher outside the big loony cities. And it's possible that by 2016 one of the younger more libertarian Repubs will emerge to save the day.

If Romney wins and doesn't do much, or can't do much, look for another liberal in the WH after one term.

I don't want to see the pain another four years of Obama would cause America, nor witness the dangers of his continuing appeasement of evildoers worldwide, but it might be the only way to nail the coffin of liberalism shut for a while if we survive until 2016.

--fleg

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649704 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/19/2012 2:30 AM
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I've thought the same thing. The only way to stop the total decline of America is to have it further destroyed by another four years of Obama. Then some smart conservative (Paul Ryan?) can pick up the pieces of the Republic and build it back up.

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649746 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/19/2012 9:55 AM
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cc
I've thought the same thing. The only way to stop the total decline of America is to have it further destroyed by another four years of Obama. Then some smart conservative (Paul Ryan?) can pick up the pieces of the Republic and build it back up.


This is exactly what will be needed. Sort of a cleansing or purging.

I've been raising kids for almost 30 years now. I see what is going on in their peers and have had to fight like a dog to raise decent kids that don't have all the refuse others have. I've been partially successful.

Since the 1960's, we've raised several generations of clueless, entitlement minded, selfish, greedy little automatons. They are now running the country (Obama and his hoards) and they vote.

I hate to say this but in order for us to rebuild, a lot of pain is going to be needed to wake these people up who take our freedoms and wealth for granted.

decath

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649777 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/19/2012 1:13 PM
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Quoted: Americans face a rude awakening: a future that hasn’t been acknowledged and debated in the campaign.

They're talking about all the riots, looting, and burning after their candidate doesn't win. You thought the Clinton staffers were little by supposedly taking all the "W"s off keyboards, I wonder what O's people will do.

JLC

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Author: andrew61 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649976 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/20/2012 3:45 PM
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It doesn't MATTER who caused it. During the last four years, the Chief Executive of this country has FAILED to turn his "company" around. In the real world, this is grounds for dismissal.


Of course, just because Obama has been a disaster, it doesn't necessarily follow that Romney, if elected, is going to save us. Which is the point the OP was making.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 649982 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/20/2012 4:34 PM
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Democrats had the opportunity to select a different candidate, which they did not do. Therefore, the one they selected, whose policies have failed, has got to go.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 650026 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/20/2012 8:57 PM
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Of course, just because Obama has been a disaster, it doesn't necessarily follow that Romney, if elected, is going to save us. Which is the point the OP was making.

The counterpoint is that we have no reason to even imagine that Obama will save us in 4 years; while there is sufficient reason in Romney's record of achievement to not only imagine but even to hope that he will be a huge improvement.

(Expect? Well, that's a bit more complicated.)

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 650028 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/20/2012 9:05 PM
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Of course, just because Obama has been a disaster, it doesn't necessarily follow that Romney, if elected, is going to save us. Which is the point the OP was making.

The counterpoint is that we have no reason to even imagine that Obama will save us in 4 years; while there is sufficient reason in Romney's record of achievement to not only imagine but even to hope that he will be a huge improvement.
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warrl, am i wrong or were you very MadCapish in the past? Like refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils? You may still be like that but i didn't pick up that vibe from your post. I'm not making any judgements, because like i said in a previous post, i have those feelings too at times.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 650038 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/20/2012 10:40 PM
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warrl, am i wrong or were you very MadCapish in the past? Like refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils? You may still be like that but i didn't pick up that vibe from your post. I'm not making any judgements, because like i said in a previous post, i have those feelings too at times.

I waver on that.

But in the current situation... while Romney is certainly not everything I would like to see in a President, and since he's a politician I assume he's corrupt and dishonest, I am not convinced he's actually evil.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 650043 of 746084
Subject: Re: Samuelson What was missing from Debate Date: 10/20/2012 10:58 PM
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warrl, am i wrong or were you very MadCapish in the past? Like refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils? You may still be like that but i didn't pick up that vibe from your post. I'm not making any judgements, because like i said in a previous post, i have those feelings too at times.</
I waver on that.

But in the current situation... while Romney is certainly not everything I would like to see in a President, and since he's a politician I assume he's corrupt and dishonest, I am not convinced he's actually evil.
---------------------

Here's my whole theory. Vote in as many repubs as possible. Get rid of Obamacare. If they don't get rid of Obamacare, vote them out again. I think this is our one chance for our country not to go down a Socialist rat hole. After this election the country either goes down the rat hole, or has a chance, at lest, to climb out a recover some aspect of freedom.

arrete


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