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Author: oblivious40 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 308519  
Subject: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/20/2008 8:27 PM
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Hi all,

Well I kind of feel like the hurdler that hit the last hurdle and fell down before the finish line. August 8th we sent off our snowball payment and went down to one CC. Paid off 20K of CC debt in 7 months. But, 2 years ago we did a very stupid thing. DW co-signed for my sons car note. I did the same for our oldest son many years ago and he was late a few times but still it turned out ok.

Anyway, I get home and waiting in the mail is a bill from Geico for $170 my sons insurance payment bounced for the second time in a row. He was also late with car payments, so we convinced him that he could not afford this car and needed to turn it over to us since DW was co-bower and owner anyway. I go to pick up the 2003 Hyundai LX Sonata. Car starts very ruff and I can hear a mechanical clicking and grinding noise from around the area of the alternator. I check oil and dip stick has just a bit on the tip of the stick. The tread on the tires were gone on back tires with one of the tires showing about a 1 inch strip of steel belt all the way around the tire. I get a few quarts of oil and drive it straight to Wal-Mart. Replaced all 4 tires and got a oil change. The car is still grinding and brakes are squeaking badly when pressed down pulls to one side.

I have a very reliable auto mechanic that runs a business out of his home. He is 30 miles away but, since I thought that this was going to be very expensive to fix and timing belt needed to be replaced I took it to him. Noise was from AC Compressor burning out, back brakes, calipers and rotors are shot, add with timing belt, its going to cost us a little over $2300 to fix. The loan for the car is around $4600 and blue book is around the same with the vehicle in fair condition. I have been driving my 2001 Honda with an AC that needs to be fixed and I have been putting off until next year since I wanted to get out of CC debt first. I am having my mechanic go ahead and fix AC on the Sonata and I will probably drive it the rest of the summer. Our DD is 15 and will be driving soon so we will probably keep this car.

Kills me that I did it but, I put 2K on a 0.99% for Life CC and used half of our 1K emergency fun for tires and such. I was due to pay off last CC of ($6900) on October 3rd and I was going to go aggressively funding me and DW’s Roths starting in October. I guess my best course of action is to pay off 2K CC with extra biweekly check on October 15th.

We have been averaging around $2500 to our debt snowball but we have only put $200 into our Roths this year DW will turn 50 and I am 48. I am feeling a little beat-up from this and want to get right back on my feet but, I am thinking that I will still slow down the debt repayment once the CC debt is gone, change the budget to put 1K per month to Roth’s and build a good size emergency fund (5-10K) before attacking the 2 car notes.

Feeling really crappy this week for using a CC, everything was going so well. I guess I am learning a few lesions on co-signing not only from the financial but from the personal. Its just not worth the stress that develops between our son and us. It would have been so much better to not cosign. Nothing good has come from it.



Oblivion
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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277429 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/20/2008 9:51 PM
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<<Feeling really crappy this week for using a CC, everything was going so well. I guess I am learning a few lesions on co-signing not only from the financial but from the personal. Its just not worth the stress that develops between our son and us. It would have been so much better to not cosign. Nothing good has come from it.


>>


Sorry to hear about the difficulties. As usual, no good deed seems to go unpunished.

As a non parent, it's always a mystery to me why parents seem to go a long way out of their way to saddle their children with all the expenses that go along with an automobile. It seems like a no brainer to me to treat such a luxury as a pricilege and responsibility of being an adult. If a kid can't afford it --- do without.

I can see ---barely, permitting a child to drive the family car, and the family bearing the substantial cost of that provilege. Perhaps that's especially justified where the kid is doing well in school and is responsible and doing useful things with their time ---as a reward and a privilege of good behavior.

But saddling a kid with the expenses of car ownership always strikes me as bordering on abuse, and encouraging a kid to saddle themselves with substantial expenses they often can't handle. No favor to them, in my view, however much they may beg to have that bit, bridle and saddle installed.


But perhaps some parent can explain this urge to me.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: xraymd Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277430 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/20/2008 10:25 PM
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Greetings, oblivious40, sorry for the travails but hope it will encourage you to know that you can contribute towards your 2008 Roths all the way to tax day, 2009 (usually April 15th) - you are not stuck with a December 31st deadline. That might help you to make the full 2008 contribution that you'd planned. Then for 2009, you have until tax day 2010 if you needed to take that long. Another bit of good news is that for the spouse who is 50, the contribution limit bumps upward another $1000 (to $6000) because of the catch-up provision coming into play the year one turns 50. So there is even MORE you can stuff into the Roth for 2008 especially since you have 4 extra months into 2009 to do it (if you contribute in 2009 towards a 2008 Roth, just be sure to designate your contribution as a PRIOR-YEAR contribution and it will be treated properly. Good luck to you!

xraymd

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Author: xraymd Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277431 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/20/2008 10:46 PM
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As a non parent, it's always a mystery to me why parents seem to go a long way out of their way to saddle their children with all the expenses that go along with an automobile. It seems like a no brainer to me to treat such a luxury as a pricilege and responsibility of being an adult. If a kid can't afford it --- do without.

I can see ---barely, permitting a child to drive the family car, and the family bearing the substantial cost of that provilege. Perhaps that's especially justified where the kid is doing well in school and is responsible and doing useful things with their time ---as a reward and a privilege of good behavior.

But saddling a kid with the expenses of car ownership always strikes me as bordering on abuse, and encouraging a kid to saddle themselves with substantial expenses they often can't handle. No favor to them, in my view, however much they may beg to have that bit, bridle and saddle installed.


Greetings, SeattlePioneer, I am afraid I cannot explain the urge as a parent (I am not one) but I *can* explain what my parents did for me and my brothers. When I was 16 and had my license and when my brothers were at that time 15 and had their learner's permits (they are 13 months younger than me), my Dad sat down with us and made us the following offer: he would buy us a modest car (Buick Apollo at the time, in 1973, which was the equivalent of a Chevy Nova) if each of the 3 kids kicked in a 6th of the purchase price. He would pay half and he would pay the insurance. We would pay for the gas and the maintenance. The reason he wished us to consider this is that we went to a high school just outside the district which we needed to get to (it was a newer school in the system and had a super reputation but it was NOT on the bus line so we had to get to school somehow and it would have been him or our Mom driving us at least part of the time, for we were in a carpool but we needed to take turns at the driving duties). In addition, I had an afterschool job on the weekend at the local mall which I could drive myself to if there were transportation. Plus the following year, my brothers would be both working (as was I) and would then be able to drive, and then we three could have the car up at college with us (me alone for the first year and then the three of us thereafter once my brothers entered university, a year behind me). My Dad was smart about it - he'd done the calculation and realized that the tremendous savings of time on his and my Mom's part for buying us half a car and funding the insurance was well worth the expenditure, plus it gave us the responsibility for the upkeep and caused my brothers and me to learn how to negotiate a fair share of the car's use between us. There were other stipulations about that our grades had to stay up, but I don't remember that so well because they did stay up and we did not abuse the privilege of having the car (we had curfew rules too that we obligingly followed). Plus the money we put into the car had to be paid back to him within a set period of time, so we had to learn to put payback at the forefront of our earnings.

All around, the three of us had always been highly responsible and my Dad knew this and recognized he was not taking too much of a gamble for we would not have wished to behave in a way that broke the rules. The reason my Dad knew this would work is that we had done well at other types of work, paid and unpaid (babysitting, lawn care, paper route, camp counselor and so forth). My brothers were Boy Scouts so they had already been taught to honor their commitments. The chance my Dad took ended up being a highly productive payoff, for it fostered independence and responsibility well into our college years and beyond. I bought out my brothers after college, and took over the insurance payments from my Dad. I had that Apollo from 1973-1981 and it was kept in pristine condition, inside the driver/passenger compartment and under the hood. That car symbolized becoming mature and I regard it as a singularly GOOD decision on my Dad's part, but he knew his audience well and reinforced to all of us that we'd earned his trust in striking the deal.

xraymd

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Author: bingocards Three stars, 500 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277432 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/20/2008 11:08 PM
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Five kids, two parents, one works full time. The usual list of doctor appointments, birthday parties, math team meets, part-time jobs, and tutors. A 3rd car meant the 5 of us could take a little burden off of mom being the professional travel coordinator.

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Author: determinedmom Big red star, 1000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277433 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/20/2008 11:28 PM
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It is hard for me to imagine a situation where I would co-sign a car loan of all things.

My oldest son is getting ready to get his license (he is 17). He will be paying for his auto insurance (actually the cost is about what his allowance was so we are using his allowance to pay the cost which he is ok for). He will be driving as available one of the family cars responsible for most of the gas he uses.

We have told him that if he wants to buy a car...whatever car he wants...we will pay half the price if he saves his half in cash. He has a part time job and is saving up.

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277439 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 10:20 AM
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I'm with you, SP. I grew up in a fairly isolated, rural area. Cars were useful there. Yet my parents NEVER bought us cars, offered to buy us cars, etc. Ever. Not at 16, and not now. We could borrow the family car (they covered insurance, we got gas), but that was it. I bummed rides and biked everywhere and didn't even buy a car until I was 25.

We did well in school, so it wasn't a "if you do well you can have a car," equation. My parents simply felt that no teenager "deserved a car," but if it was important to us, we could save for it and buy one. It wasn't all that important, so we didn't.

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Author: ems79 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277441 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 10:31 AM
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...Noise was from AC Compressor burning out, back brakes, calipers and rotors are shot, add with timing belt...


Did DS buy this car new? Hyundai has a 10YR/100K warranty and they often will up-sell the bumper-to-bumper extension to that for relatively little money up front.

A friend of mine has had some limited success in getting money back paid to 3rd party repair facilities by citing either an urgent need for repair or that the local dealership had a 2-3 day wait for an appointment.

Though this may not help you as I would imagine it will be hard to get Hyundai to pay out on repairs made by a non-professional mechanic.

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Author: llambe Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277449 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 12:01 PM
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As a non parent, it's always a mystery to me why parents seem to go a long way out of their way to saddle their children with all the expenses that go along with an automobile. It seems like a no brainer to me to treat such a luxury as a pricilege and responsibility of being an adult. If a kid can't afford it --- do without.

I can see ---barely, permitting a child to drive the family car, and the family bearing the substantial cost of that provilege. Perhaps that's especially justified where the kid is doing well in school and is responsible and doing useful things with their time ---as a reward and a privilege of good behavior.


For us with DS(Step)S, it was a relief to me when he bought his own car and took on all those expenses - because before that we were covering everything, he was working just as much and all the money he made was purely blow money for him (he did put 10% away). After the car, he began to see that there are expenses that you have to cover as an adult. He still had a LOT of blow money though. For DD (who's only 5) I've already been considering different ways to limit the amount of money that is allowable to just blow.

Lael

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Author: YewGuise Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277450 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 12:20 PM
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...not worth the stress that develops between our son and us...

Let me guess. Your son is now without a car, and blames you. My sympathies. As a parent, I understand the necessity to both be supportive and teach independence. Also, what works in one family might not work in another, and even within a family, what's best for one child may not be best for another. Parenting is a constant trial-and-error process.


...Nothing good has come from it...

Well, you now have a car for your DD, so you're ahead of the game on that item.

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Author: 2gifts Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277451 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 12:30 PM
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But perhaps some parent can explain this urge to me.


When the kids got their license this year, we opted to buy a 3rd vehicle [4th, if you count DH's motorcycle, but he's the only one of us who can drive that]. We picked up a 2003 Honda Civic hybrid with 130k miles on it that has 4 doors [DH wanted this] and is a 5-speed [I wanted this]. We paid for the vehicle, but the kids pay their own insurance which does cover them on all three vehicles. They pay me monthly when I pay the mortgage so that they are responsible for their own expenses, and mostly so that they learn how to deal with monthly obligations.

They are also responsible for their own gas.

They have now each learned to drive the 5-speed, and although the plan had been for them to have this car, it turns out that I drive the furthest distance, so I've been driving this, and they've been sharing the Odyssey. They take turns putting gas in it, so they are learning about the cost of gas and how increases can hurt the wallet.

We needed the third vehicle because DS has a regular job, and driving him to and from was difficult. He works nights, and just staying up that late is a challenge for me. Plus, the more experience they can get driving now, the better off they will be later.

We have found it very convenient for everyone to have the extra vehicle. DS has been able to go to the jobsite to help DH or just to bring supplies. He and DD have been able to run errands for me, and can get themselves to work. We have a general priority on who gets the car - 1st priority is someone going to work and the next priority would be by distance or lateness. So if they were both going to work, whoever is working farther gets first choice, and then it is whoever is working later. They do take turns driving each other places so that the other one can have the car.

They will not be driving to school.

The car belongs to us, and will stay with us when they go to college, but it is incredibly convenient for us to have another vehicle available for the two kids to share. It also gives them a taste of responsibility as they pay their own insurance and expenses.

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277452 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 12:37 PM
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We have found it very convenient for everyone to have the extra vehicle. DS has been able to go to the jobsite to help DH or just to bring supplies. He and DD have been able to run errands for me, and can get themselves to work. We have a general priority on who gets the car - 1st priority is someone going to work and the next priority would be by distance or lateness. So if they were both going to work, whoever is working farther gets first choice, and then it is whoever is working later. They do take turns driving each other places so that the other one can have the car.

Handled reasonably, having a car for the kids can clearly be a source of responsibility, sharing, learning to compromise, and a lot of other adult virtues.

Each family is different, and each child is different. What works for one family might not work for another.

Congratulations on an excellent job!

Nancy

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Author: reallyalldone Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277453 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 12:39 PM
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I can see ---barely, permitting a child to drive the family car, and the family bearing the substantial cost of that provilege. Perhaps that's especially justified where the kid is doing well in school and is responsible and doing useful things with their time ---as a reward and a privilege of good behavior.

As the parent of 3 with 6 years between the oldest and youngest, I can't describe my joy when my oldest could drive. Just her getting herself to places(especially that 5:30 am start at her bakery job) was fabulous. We also remembered that joy when our middle went to college and we realized we were back in the driving business for a year so there was much joy again when the youngest got his license.

Ours had to have $500 in a CD I held(the deductible) and paid for gas and oil changes(on my schedule).

rad

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Author: dcoop46 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277460 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 1:42 PM
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I purchased a nice used car for my son when he turned 16. He was/is responsible to maintain his high grades (HS and now in college) and pays for the gas and repairs. He has been an accident/ticket free driver for over 3 years. I don't regret the purchase or the decision to purchase the car for him.

Expectations are set when the child is growing up. I don't think it is the the fact that a parent purchases a car or not but how responsible the kid is at the time they are ready to drive.

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277472 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 3:44 PM
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I don't think it is the the fact that a parent purchases a car or not but how responsible the kid is at the time they are ready to drive
I don't see them as related at all, except for the peripheral statement that if your kid is a complete wastral it's probably dangerous for them to have a car, period, regardless of who buys it.

I was always responsible. Yet I was not offered, not thought I deserved my parents to buy me a car, just because I could have handled it and they could afford it. That money was better spent on many other things.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277477 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 4:40 PM
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<<I can see ---barely, permitting a child to drive the family car, and the family bearing the substantial cost of that provilege. Perhaps that's especially justified where the kid is doing well in school and is responsible and doing useful things with their time ---as a reward and a privilege of good behavior.

As the parent of 3 with 6 years between the oldest and youngest, I can't describe my joy when my oldest could drive. Just her getting herself to places(especially that 5:30 am start at her bakery job) was fabulous. We also remembered that joy when our middle went to college and we realized we were back in the driving business for a year so there was much joy again when the youngest got his license.

Ours had to have $500 in a CD I held(the deductible) and paid for gas and oil changes(on my schedule).

rad>>


Personally, I never even learned to drive until I was completing graduate school and needed to have a car and drive for work --- even back in 1974 I got a $175/month car allowance + gas + oil from my job.

Until then I was happy taking the bus or bicycling ----and in fact when I retired a year ago I've put few miles and my car and gone back to a good deal of bicycling and bus transportation.

I'm sure my parents would have been happy to have me drive, and my other sibs all drove the family cars. But they never asked about it and I had no interest in it. We never discussed it.

Personally, a car would have been a disaster for me. I lived entirely on my own hook through college and grad school, paid all my own expenses through jobs I had, including a grad assistantship.

The expense of a car would have been difficult to support. As it was I completed school with no debts --- a pattern I continue to the present day.

With my history, I find it mind boggling that so many high school and college students have their own cars. It always seems like such a sink hole for money from my perspective. But I guess college students have lots of money these days --- and often lots of debts, too.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: 2gifts Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277479 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 4:48 PM
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Until then I was happy taking the bus or bicycling ----and in fact when I retired a year ago I've put few miles and my car and gone back to a good deal of bicycling and bus transportation.


You lived in a city. I live in the country. The only buses we have transport school children. There is no form of public transportation here at all including trains, buses, or even cabs.

My son has been known to ride his bicycle to work before he could drive and when DH or I could not be home to take him, but he works in a restaurant with his shifts usually being 4:00pm to 10:00 pm. There is no way on this earth that I would let him ride his bicycle home in the dark on a state highway where the speed limit is 45. It is simply not going to happen. Hence, even when he rode his bike to work, one of us picked him up. Now that he drives, he can get himself there more safely by taking the car.

Personally, a car would have been a disaster for me.

Like a credit card, I much prefer my kids learning to drive at home from me where I can help them to learn and they can get some experience in a familiar setting. They've now been driving on either a permit or license for about 15 months, and I am still teaching them things. I would not want them to be learning on their own later with no one to ride in the seat beside them to help.

The expense of a car would have been difficult to support.

That's why we bought the car instead of the kids, and it's why the car belongs to us and not to either one of them. The only thing they have to support on the vehicle is the insurance and gas when they use it. They don't have car payments and won't be taking the car to college with them. This works well for our family, though I can see that if public transportation were available, there would be more options.

With my history, I find it mind boggling that so many high school and college students have their own cars. It always seems like such a sink hole for money from my perspective. But I guess college students have lots of money these days --- and often lots of debts, too.


If buying a car fits into our plans, then I don't see what's so bad about it. You're painting with a mighty broad brush there, but I can tell you that our 3rd vehicle purchase meets all those tests you always have for an expense, as I tend to use similar tests myself. We had the cash to pay for it. We did not have to defer any other life goals including our retirement or paying for the kids' college, and it adds quite a bit in terms of quality of life.

Not everyone who spends money is going into debt, and that applies to high school and college kids as well as adults.

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Author: xraymd Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277481 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 5:04 PM
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With my history, I find it mind boggling that so many high school and college students have their own cars. It always seems like such a sink hole for money from my perspective. But I guess college students have lots of money these days --- and often lots of debts, too.

Greetings, SeattlePioneer, the car I shared with my brothers in college was fully paid for before we ever started university. It cost nothing to park and the insurance premiums were low because we were all good drivers. We each worked in school and earned our own money for everything apart from tuition and books (our parents paid for those). The car made it possible for us to boost our earning power so it was actually a net positive. I could well afford the car expenses (we did not overuse it at all) and emerged with a profit even with the expenses because of its benefit in getting me to the job which paid higher than other jobs closer in to campus.

That said, since I shared the car with my brothers, when I chose to stay on in Ann Arbor over the summers (after my first summer back home between freshman and sophomore year), it was their turn to take the car home with them and I then used my bicycle as my primary means of transportation, over 3 summer's duration. During that time I worked as a gas pumper in a local carwash each of those summers (first female ever to do so! It was great.) and I recall that I was brown as a berry and fit as a fiddle. Ann Arbor was very easy to get around by bicycle and even if the bike was my primary means of transportation, I also utilized it for recreation, taking 17-mile round trip cycle tours for fun out to a local lake. I kept that bike until my late 30's, taking it with me to Montreal to medical school, and finally gave it away to my housekeeper (she came once a month during med school to restore order and sanity to my apartment) to give to her 12-year-old son (it was a boy's bike from the get-go) because they could not have afforded a nice 10-speed for him and it was time for him to have it. That ultimately gave me as much pleasure as did riding it (it was a birthday gift from my parents when I was 16) way back during college years when it served as my car. I did sporadically ride it after that but nowhere near as extensively during college summers. Thanks for triggering a trip down memory lane; when I think of those days I smile wide. They sure were fun!

xraymd

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Author: reallyalldone Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277486 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 7:26 PM
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My older son did bike to work because he got a job at 14.5 and worked from 2-5pm in non-running seasons. If the weather was inclimate, I would try to pick him up on my way home from work.

I have to say that with my daughter, it would have been a lot easier for me to give her $40 a week rather than encourage her to work. I did write about this a long time ago :
http://www.fool.com/Fribble/1998/Fribble981229.htm

Probably if you look at posts by RecoveringFool at the Family Fool board, you can follow the whole deciding what to do with licenses and cars thing.

I do confess - I let my youngest take a car back in the middle of his freshman year because we had an extra car, he needed transportatioin to rowing and really because I saw the opportunity not to drive 12 hours across the plains to pick him up at the end of the year. He also has had jobs(at Panera and as a ski instructor) and worked as many days as he was able. He has a teaching assistantship as a senior this fall.

rad

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Author: Lea77 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277487 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/21/2008 7:33 PM
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That's why we bought the car instead of the kids, and it's why the car belongs to us and not to either one of them.

That's what my parents did. And a car doesn't have to be a sinkhole for money. When I was 16 I got my dad's 100k mile Lumina (an old company car). Then, I got an Eagle Talon when I was 17 (100k mileage again). That was my favorite car ever. Man I miss that car.

The lumina was bought using company car funds and was well paid off by the time I got it. The Talon was purchased for about what the Lumina sold for. When I went away to college, I went to a city and didn't have a car for 4 years and the Talon was sold (I think for what it cost). So the only money my parents were out was insurance and gas, and when I was in high school I think gas was 1 a gallon. Plus, I drove myself to and from school and work and my little brother various places.

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Author: dcoop46 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277495 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 8:57 AM
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"I don't think it is the the fact that a parent purchases a car or not but how responsible the kid is at the time they are ready to drive
I don't see them as related at all, except for the peripheral statement that if your kid is a complete wastral it's probably dangerous for them to have a car, period, regardless of who buys it.

I was always responsible. Yet I was not offered, not thought I deserved my parents to buy me a car, just because I could have handled it and they could afford it. That money was better spent on many other things."

I made the responsible comment as the OP collected the car from his kid and it was trashed. He did not take care of it and the OP had to put money in it to get it fixed. My son didn't look at my buying him a car as entitlment but more as an agreement. He wanted a car I wanted him to get good grades. It worked out for both of us. He is fast tracking through college (working on getting accepted to pharmacy school) and has a part time job instead of playing video games on my couch waiting for us to make dinner..

When I was a kid my Dad wouldn't help me get a license or a car. Help, meaning take me down to get my temps, take me out to practice, help me with my drive test and finally help in anyway when I purchase my first car. (1965 ford custom, I worked all summer for it) As a result, I spent more time trying to find ways to make more money then studying in school. That caught up with me in my late twentys when I wanted to get advanced at work and didn't have the degree. That still is a sore spot with me 30+ years later.

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Author: xraymd Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277500 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 11:24 AM
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When I was a kid my Dad wouldn't help me get a license or a car. Help, meaning take me down to get my temps, take me out to practice, help me with my drive test and finally help in anyway when I purchase my first car. (1965 ford custom, I worked all summer for it) As a result, I spent more time trying to find ways to make more money then studying in school. That caught up with me in my late twentys when I wanted to get advanced at work and didn't have the degree. That still is a sore spot with me 30+ years later.

Greetings, dcoop46, what do you think made your Dad so resistant to helping you here? Clearly, you have been able to help your son in the very same ways your Did was unable or unwilling to help you, so it is not inherited! Or maybe it is - was his Dad unwilling to help him and he somehow got it in his head that that's how you raise a kid? Or was he afraid of what car ownership and the ability to drive might lead to? I am genuinely curious. Based on what you say about how your son is doing, he sure has his head on straight and that says to me that you have yours on straight, too. So why the blind spot of your Dad's?

As an aside, I am not a parent so I lack certain insights. But whenever I hear about consequences like this, it makes me feel like it is sometimes too easy to get parenting wrong (like your Dad got this part wrong) and there is not at all a guarantee of getting it right. But I admire you and your son tremendously from the part you relayed - hope he sails into Pharmacy school, good for him! - and clearly you have taken that sore spot and done something blessedly successful with it (the relationship you have with your son is great evidence of it) and my hat is tipped to you.

xraymd

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277501 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 11:29 AM
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Personally, I never even learned to drive until I was completing graduate school and needed to have a car and drive for work
Hey, me too! I learned to drive in NY City when I knew I'd be moving to CA. Sadly, it didn't help me learn to parallel park on a hill with a clutch car. That was self-taught in San Francisco...

I managed fine without a car in a rural/small town area, the suburbs and (it goes without saying) New York City. Sure, that's not for everyone - some people need cars - but it was totally possible to live without one and it wasn't the end of the world. I saved a bunch of $ too.

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Author: dcoop46 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277503 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 12:29 PM
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Xraymd,

Thank you for your response. My dad was a retired sailor who never fit the "role" model of a parent (he was out to sea pretty much all year until I turned 11). After he retired he rolled into a postal job and opened a bar. He was focused on accumulating a personal nest egg. He never spent a dime on us kids or my mother. (Who divorced him when I was 13). I got the small straw so I ended up living with him while my Sibs lived with my mother.

Dear old dad never encouraged me to do well in school or checked homework; he didn't attend any parent teacher conferences, supported me on any class projects or attend any sport I was involved with.

However, He never missed a chance to point out how stupid I was or what a loser I was going to be when I grew up. He always had a never ending list of chores to do when I got home from school and on weekends. He felt that if you were not working you were slacking and not pulling your weight. He didn’t want me to drive as he couldn’t control where I went (we lived 12 mile out of town) So he refused to any involvement in it, he even tried to get the drivers ed class dropped in my class schedule. (My mom got it back on my schedule without him knowing about it until it was to late)

So, what changed me?, my wife, and her support broke down many years of emotional abuse and provided me encouragement to do things I never thought I was capable of. I went through night school for 8.5 years to get my degrees (AA, BS, MBA). I slowly moved up the corporate ladder and am doing very well now. I look back and wonder what I could be today if I had encouragement and support while growing up.

I vowed I would never treat my kid the way I was treated. I have been and will always be fully involved with his rearing; I never missed a teacher’s conference, show choir performance, track meet or any tennis matches. I made sure I helped him with his homework and checked his assignments. I volunteered at school when I could (room Dad) and chaperoned on several field trips (I always got the bad kids in my group; teachers love Dads because bad kids don’t misbehave with a Dad). At the same time we showed him how to respect his elders, clean a bathroom, cook and do laundry. I am very happy the way he is maturing and focused today.

I believe everyone had some skeleton in their closet or a past that they were not thrilled with, I played the hand that was dealt to me and wanted to deal a better one for my kid and hopefully he will deal a better one with his. I wanted to break the cycle.

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277504 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 12:35 PM
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dcoop,

That's a remarkable story. It's wonderful that you were able to move on and heal rather than becoming hostile and angry toward others.

I think your son is very lucky. And I look forward to hearing what he'll become.

Thank you for posting this.

Nancy

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Author: dcoop46 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277505 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 12:55 PM
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Thanks Nancy,

I can not say it was easy and that I don't hold any gruges or am/was angry. I was very bitter 15 years or so ago, but now I am indifferent. I had it out with my dad just after my son was born (he started on the name calling and negative stuff with him) as a result I have not seen or spoken to him in over 19 years. A very cleansing experience indeed. The benefit was my son not being exposed to that toxic atmosphere.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277506 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 1:05 PM
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<<Ann Arbor was very easy to get around by bicycle and even if the bike was my primary means of transportation, I also utilized it for recreation, taking 17-mile round trip cycle tours for fun out to a local lake. I kept that bike until my late 30's, taking it with me to Montreal to medical school, and finally gave it away to my housekeeper (she came once a month during med school to restore order and sanity to my apartment) to give to her 12-year-old son (it was a boy's bike from the get-go) because they could not have afforded a nice 10-speed for him and it was time for him to have it. That ultimately gave me as much pleasure as did riding it (it was a birthday gift from my parents when I was 16) way back during college years when it served as my car. I did sporadically ride it after that but nowhere near as extensively during college summers. Thanks for triggering a trip down memory lane; when I think of those days I smile wide. They sure were fun!

xraymd

>>


Great story of a bicycle, xraymd. I hope the twelve year old appreciated how powerful a transportation tool a bicycle can be.

Most people don't, so they don't usually get all that muchy use or pleasure froma a bicycle.

Last weekend I was invited to my brother's home and to see my nephew perform in a community theater production of "Annie Get Your Gun." I took the local transit systems the forty miles north of my home, and took my bike along with me to ride the last couple of miles.

My brother, sister in law and I then rode our bikes to the theater, to a restaurant and then to their home again, while my nephews used the family car (?). I biked and bused home again the next day.

It may be that a lot of people just don't have the skill and confidence to use a bicycle effectively. Cycling is a significant part of my life, a part I enjoy a lot.


Seattle Pioneer

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277507 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 1:19 PM
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I can not say it was easy and that I don't hold any gruges or am/was angry. I was very bitter 15 years or so ago, but now I am indifferent. I had it out with my dad just after my son was born (he started on the name calling and negative stuff with him) as a result I have not seen or spoken to him in over 19 years. A very cleansing experience indeed. The benefit was my son not being exposed to that toxic atmosphere.

I suspect that one of the reasons you became such a good father is that you know exactly what having a bad father can be like. You know how hurt you were, and don't wish that on others. No, I don't think it was easy. It must have been very hard, harder than most of us realize.

Nancy

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277508 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 1:19 PM
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<<http://www.fool.com/Fribble/1998/Fribble981229.htm

Probably if you look at posts by RecoveringFool at the Family Fool board, you can follow the whole deciding what to do with licenses and cars thing.

I do confess - I let my youngest take a car back in the middle of his freshman year because we had an extra car, he needed transportatioin to rowing and really because I saw the opportunity not to drive 12 hours across the plains to pick him up at the end of the year. He also has had jobs(at Panera and as a ski instructor) and worked as many days as he was able. He has a teaching assistantship as a senior this fall.

rad
>>


I enjoyed your post on what your kids learned from working.

Perhaps my bias against the car thing is another reflection of my frugal values. Cars are useful, but they are expensive. Personally, I find it hard to justify saddling a kid with such a list of expenses, or showering a kid with such gifts if you are giving that to the kid.

I can see that many parents consider that such a gift gives them more free time, relieving them of chauffer duties. But to me, that begs the question of why parents spend as much time as chaufers.

I preferred Ginko's experience. She used her own energy and cretivity to craft transporatation solutions or did without.

But, to each their own. As I mentioned, I didn't even learn to drive until driving was a requirement for a job after grad school, and now that I'm retired I'm seriously considering dumping my car. I doubt if I've put 1,000 miles on it in the past year.


To me, it's a money pit and a luxury I'd almost prefer to do without. But I'm not quite there yet.




Seattle Pioneer

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Author: GreatVintage1965 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277509 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 1:26 PM
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Hey dcoop,

Do you get the "but you won't let me get to know my grandfather" whine from your son? If so, how do you deal with it?

My daughter won't let me forget that I wouldn't let her meet my dad. When he died, she was practically hysterical about the lost opportunity. Trust me kid, there was no opportunity to be lost.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277510 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 1:32 PM
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<<My daughter won't let me forget that I wouldn't let her meet my dad. When he died, she was practically hysterical about the lost opportunity. Trust me kid, there was no opportunity to be lost.
>>


I don't doubt that that's true in some cases, and perhaps in your case.


But giving women that power to block the father and daughter from having a relationship just on the mother's say so is outrageous and abusive.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277511 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 1:46 PM
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But giving women that power to block the father and daughter from having a relationship just on the mother's say so is outrageous and abusive.

So it's okay for dcoop to block the grandfather from meeting the son, but it's abusive for GreatVintage to keep the grandfather from meeting the daughter?

That's a twisted chain of logic there, somewhere.

Nancy
heading off to ponder it.

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Author: dcoop46 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277512 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 1:53 PM
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"Greatvintage1965,

Do you get the "but you won't let me get to know my grandfather" whine from your son? If so, how do you deal with it?

My daughter won't let me forget that I wouldn't let her meet my dad. When he died, she was practically hysterical about the lost opportunity. Trust me kid, there was no opportunity to be lost."


I am fortunate to have a Step-dad and FIL that filled that grandfather void. My step-dad is/was alsways there for me and my son. Just before I hung up on my father (after our blow out) I told him that our riff was between me and him and if he wanted any contact with my son he would have to make the first move( I would stay out of it). He said that I was no long his son and a relationship with my son wasn't going to happen. His choice not mine, my son understood this his whole life and has accepted it. Others have made comments to me about it but hey just because you provide sperm doesn't make you a father.

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277513 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 1:59 PM
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But giving women that power to block the father and daughter from having a relationship just on the mother's say so is outrageous and abusive.
SP: I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you mis-read the original posts and thought this was some kind of custody thing. It's about grandparents, not parents.

In my opinion, a parent - any parent - can and should disallow contact with grandparents if they are abusive or a bad influence. When the child is an adult, they can decide to make contact or not.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277514 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 2:05 PM
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<<But giving women that power to block the father and daughter from having a relationship just on the mother's say so is outrageous and abusive.

So it's okay for dcoop to block the grandfather from meeting the son, but it's abusive for GreatVintage to keep the grandfather from meeting the daughter?

That's a twisted chain of logic there, somewhere.

Nancy
>>


There's a difference between a father or mother and grandparents, in my view. Sad for some grandparents, I don't doubt.





Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277516 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 2:21 PM
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<<SP: I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you mis-read the original posts and thought this was some kind of custody thing. It's about grandparents, not parents.
>>



I was addressing the following comment from post 277509:

<<<<My daughter won't let me forget that I wouldn't let her meet my dad. When he died, she was practically hysterical about the lost opportunity. Trust me kid, there was no opportunity to be lost.
>>

I see now that I missread the "my dad" comment, interpreting it as the child's father. My mistake, and I apoloigize.



While it's no doubt among the world of losses and hurts divorce often cause, I'm less concerned with grandparents who lose contact with their granchildren, and vice versa. Probably especially true when it's the custodial parent is the natural child of the grandparents.

As I understand it, grandparents can sometimes go to court and get visitation, but they are probably better off sucking up to the custodial parent and working to get the cooperation of that parent if they can.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277517 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 2:42 PM
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My grandmother cut off all contact with our family - and anyone who talked to us and or told us anything about her - when I was a baby. I never met her, but kept thinking I might some day. When she died, she left us nothing, but left me all her papers - diaries, etc. I refused it all, except for one small family photo album. I couldn't see spending the time (psychically speaking) with someone who made my Mom so unhappy, and I didn't want to feel beholden to eight boxes worth of crap to go through.

I have no regrets. If she wanted me to know her and the family history - the time would have been when she was alive.

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Author: reallyalldone Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277520 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 2:52 PM
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I preferred Ginko's experience. She used her own energy and cretivity to craft transporatation solutions or did without.

You know my older son is a bicycle mechanic as well as does some bicycle design work, right ?

However, he does seem to lack the creativity to get from Steamboat Springs to Denver without a car so I guess we are failures in the parenting department.

rad

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Author: xraymd Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277525 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 3:16 PM
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So, what changed me?, my wife, and her support broke down many years of emotional abuse and provided me encouragement to do things I never thought I was capable of. I went through night school for 8.5 years to get my degrees (AA, BS, MBA). I slowly moved up the corporate ladder and am doing very well now. I look back and wonder what I could be today if I had encouragement and support while growing up.

Greetings, dcoop46, what a beautiful response; I am so glad I asked. Now in answer to your question above, here's what I think you could be today: EXACTLY who you are and that is a man with a strong relationship with his family, particularly his own son who has set a goal for himself and is in pursuit of it. That to me speaks of a success significantly more meaningful than any what-if's could lead you to. The real truth is that you healed the injuries from your indifferent-at-best father and that you have indeed created a new foundation for future healthy relationships, including any grandkids that may yet come in time. Bravo!

I will also add this: I am a physician who started medical school at age 38, and am enjoying my second career at nearly age 52. Of course I will never be Surgeon General, but I never wished to be Surgeon General - I really did wish to see where my own commitment would take me, and it brought me to this point in my life. This is just to say to you that if there is anything you have dreamed of doing, I am convinced by my own life that it really is never too late to get started and I encourage you to review your dreams and see if either you realize that you are more content than you'd appreciated, or that you do have an untapped drive to take on a new hobby or even a new shift in career. If, for no other reason, you wanted to show yourself some appreciation and respect, just as you have shown your son.

Sadly, none of us are guaranteed to be assigned a set of loving parents, and you did not win that lottery. But your son sure has, and so has your wife. May I say how much I admire you?

xraymd

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Author: DrBooa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277526 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 3:17 PM
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But giving women that power to block the father and daughter from having a relationship just on the mother's say so is outrageous and abusive.

It's not a father and daughter, it's a grandfather and daughter. I think you misread it.


--Booa

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Author: xraymd Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277527 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 3:40 PM
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It may be that a lot of people just don't have the skill and confidence to use a bicycle effectively. Cycling is a significant part of my life, a part I enjoy a lot.

Greetings, SeattlePioneer, what a fun story of your own in turn. Regarding bicycles, I concur that it depends in part on whether the community actively supports cycling with roadways with designated bike lanes and curb cuts making transportation-style cycling safer. In Tucson, these accoutrements are definitely part of the transportation options and all the city buses are outfitted with bike racks. El Tour de Tucson is held here every year and it is a major big deal for name cyclists as well as the local populace. So biking for transportation is feasible here, and kids are taught from the youngest ages about responsible riding.

In Detroit, where I grew up, the opposite was true. The transportation system was hostile to anything but the automobile, and the car companies effectively killed any type of subway, trolley or cross-city bus system (there is a rudimentary one that would take you the equivalent of 12 hours to go 10 miles). However, lots of good freeway design came out of Michigan, and Detroit was home to some of the country's first expressways. Soaked in such a car culture, it is pretty easy to see why bicycling was discouraged - also because the roadways were set up for fast car travel and heaven help the maverick cyclist devoid of a bike lane who dared share the blacktop with a car!

Nonetheless, at age 16, a 10-speed Raleigh was quite a gift (I could ride in local parks even if I was not really safe to get from point A to point B around Detroit and suburbs) and it has been quite some time since my housekeeper's son was the next recipient but I am SURE he would have done well with it because Montreal also supports cycling and many of my med student classmates got around exclusively by bicycle (leaving out the severest of the winter weather which was SEVERE indeed!).

You are putting a bug in my ear. My fiance bought himself a bike from eBay a few years ago (he thought he'd ride it to work but no longer works from anywhere but home) and I may encourage him to saddle up again. Once I am cleared by the neurosurgeon (whom I expect to clear me for physical therapy when I see him in early September), I will inquire of him two things: 1) pool therapy (generally some of the best exercise for spinal issues) and 2) whether he would clear me for stationary bicycle sessions in case I could take some of my own advice and consider riding again, since Tucson is so bicycle-friendly.

Thanks for the inspiration!

xraymd

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Author: dcoop46 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277529 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 3:46 PM
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xraymd, thank you for your kind response. I do feel lucky and blessed.

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Author: CSDunford Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277532 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 4:18 PM
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Actually, some good may very well come of this because you took the car back from your son. Hopefully he's learned that if he doesn't take care of things, he will lose them.

And as for allowing kids the "luxury" of a car, that depends on where you live. If you're 8 miles out of town in an area laughed at by the power company, let alone the bus company, and you live out a dark, narrow, windey road where people go way over the speed limit, and if you think for one minute I'm going to let my 16-year-old daughter walk that alone because of the car issue, ya got another think coming.

CarolD.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277536 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 5:45 PM
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<<And as for allowing kids the "luxury" of a car, that depends on where you live. If you're 8 miles out of town in an area laughed at by the power company, let alone the bus company, and you live out a dark, narrow, windey road where people go way over the speed limit, and if you think for one minute I'm going to let my 16-year-old daughter walk that alone because of the car issue, ya got another think coming.

CarolD.
>>


Just out of curiosity, why did you choose that location to live?


Personally, I've always chosen places to live that are on bus lines, have allowed me to bus, cycle, walk and/or run to work and such. I suppose if those aren't criteria that affect your decisions, you are a lot more likely to be driving a lot.




Seattle Pioneer

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Author: legalwordwarrior Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277537 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/22/2008 5:58 PM
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My grandmother cut off all contact with our family - and anyone who talked to us and or told us anything about her - when I was a baby. I never met her, but kept thinking I might some day. When she died, she left us nothing, but left me all her papers - diaries, etc. I refused it all, except for one small family photo album. I couldn't see spending the time (psychically speaking) with someone who made my Mom so unhappy, and I didn't want to feel beholden to eight boxes worth of crap to go through.

(((Ginko100)))

I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. I too, was disowned by a grandmother. In my case it was my dad's mom. He died when I was 13 and she had always dispised my mom. Within 10 years of his death she refused to have my name mentioned to anyone in the family. however, my cousin worked on her and when she died at the age of almost 101, she left me $5K. Steve said that it was her way of making it up to me. Hmmm, 20 years of silence was worth $5K? No matter, her oldest daughter, my aunt and Steve's mom, has always made me feel a part of the family, even though the rest of them still cling to my grandmother's wishes.

LWW

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Author: 2gifts Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277545 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/23/2008 11:32 AM
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Just out of curiosity, why did you choose that location to live?


Personally, I've always chosen places to live that are on bus lines, have allowed me to bus, cycle, walk and/or run to work and such. I suppose if those aren't criteria that affect your decisions, you are a lot more likely to be driving a lot.



I'm not the OP, but I'm in a similar circumstance. When it was just DH and I, we lived in a suburb of Boston that was at the end of the train line, so there was public transportation very close. But it was not a good place for us to raise a family, so when it came time for that, we moved out here where we have lived the last 21 years. The town we moved from had something like 38% of their high school graduates go on to college. To me, that said that these kids weren't encouraged to learn and didn't even consider college an option. We moved to a town where well in excess of 90% go on to college.

We moved to a family-friendly town as that was high on our list of criteria. We didn't have public tranportation as a requirement, and are perfectly willing to pay the price in terms of having a car and its associated costs so that we could have a better place to raise our family.

We made the right decision for us.

When the kids were born 12 weeks early and DS was in the hospital for 28 weeks before coming home, our local police department actually had a written protocol in case I dialed 911 for DS. They mentioned him at every roll call until he was cleared medically. They once offered to loan us a generator when he had first come home because of a power outage and us not being able to safely light candles for light due to his oxygen. None of this is something I would have been able to get in the city we moved from.

Everyone has different criteria for where they live. You're single, and you only have to think of you. DH and I had different criteria before we had the children. Now, I live in a very small town where we live in one of the 2 neighborhoods in town that has sidewalks. We have a state-numbered road that runs through town with a speed limit of 45 that has no sidewalks and no streetlights. You may think it is awful that I choose to let my kids drive the car to work, but I find it the only safe way for them to get there.

My life goals do not include not spending any money so that I die with a huge pile. It includes things like keeping my children safe, teaching them to be responsible, paying for their college, and retiring early. If my goals don't match yours or I do things that you wouldn't do, that's OK as long as I am doing those things based on my criteria. I'm the only one I have to satisfy in that regard.

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Author: GreatVintage1965 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277547 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/23/2008 2:38 PM
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I read ahead on this thread, but just to be clear ...

... my and my daughter's situation relating to this thread concern MY father and is the result of abusive parental behavior by MY father towards ME and has nothing to do with child custody issues.

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Author: foolazis Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277583 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/25/2008 3:10 PM
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I believe everyone had some skeleton in their closet or a past that they were not thrilled with, I played the hand that was dealt to me and wanted to deal a better one for my kid and hopefully he will deal a better one with his. I wanted to break the cycle.

What an inspirational story! Congratulations. We can't control our circumstances, but we can always control how we respond to whatever circumstance we are in.

foolazis

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Author: cbrown24 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 277821 of 308519
Subject: Re: Sent Murphy an invitation Date: 8/30/2008 7:47 AM
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Living in a rural area of Northern California and wanting young daughters to have reliable transportation?? That was our reason.

Daughter #1: Purchased brand new Honda Civic 1997 senior year in high school. She drove it for 8 years and would still probably be driving it, except a new driver ran a stop sign and totaled it. The insurance company purchased a similar car, she is still driving it.

Daughter #2: We were a bit smarter, paid for half of a used Toyota Camry. She drove 2 years, then sold for approximately what we paid for it. Cosigned loan for a new 2000 Honda Accord. She is still driving it.

Daughter #3: Purchased a used Volvo sedan when she was 15 and held it for 6 months until she got her license. She turned 21 last Sunday and is still driving it.

I still think if you raise your kids with financial responsibility, the teachings do not fly out the window the minute they learn to drive. Surely parents who get "screwed" saw signs before cosigning loans of their children's irresponsibility?

Cheryl B.

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