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Author: Vile Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 134161  
Subject: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/9/2012 4:22 AM
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/princeton-economist-obam...

Since the debate, Zero and his sychophants have been lying about Mitt lying during the debate. In truth, it is Zero who once again perpetrates many lies.

"But that's not true. Princeton professor Harvey Rosen tells THE WEEKLY STANDARD in an email that the Obama campaign is misrepresenting his paper on Romney's tax plan:


I can’t tell exactly how the Obama campaign reached that characterization of my work. It might be that they assume that Governor Romney wants to keep the taxes from the Affordable Care Act in place, despite the fact that the Governor has called for its complete repeal. The main conclusion of my study is that under plausible assumptions, a proposal along the lines suggested by Governor Romney can both be revenue neutral and keep the net tax burden on taxpayers with incomes above $200,000 about the same. That is, an increase in the tax burden on lower and middle income individuals is not required in order to make the overall plan revenue neutral."


So Zero is lying about what the author of the study actually said. Is anyone really shocked? What's really funny is all his supporters and the trolls who post here are so stupid they just eat it up. Actually, it's more sad than funny.

Zero lied, people died (in Benghazi).

Cheers,

Vile
NEVER SAY DIE!!!
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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107090 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/9/2012 10:00 AM
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Confirmation bias.

Romney could lie a million times and Obama ten and you'd see just the ten, ignoring the others.

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Author: bdluckyshot Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107093 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/9/2012 10:18 AM
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Confirmation bias.


How is that confirmation bias? Obama and Company have been pushing this lie about Romney's plan for weeks, and have since doubled down on it since the debate. Now that the source that the Choad-in-Chief has been citing to claim Romney is a liar is calling Obama out on his own falsehoods, how exactly is that confirming to someone's bias?


Romney could lie a million times and Obama ten and you'd see just the ten, ignoring the others.


Maybe it's because the Romney "lies" all seem to be invisible, while Obama's lies are clear as day. Granted, the lies are on page one, whereas the retractions and corrections are on page 10, but truth is still truth. One would think that you atheist types would appreciate the real vs. the imaginary.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107095 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/9/2012 10:24 AM
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How is that confirmation bias? Obama and Company have been pushing this lie about Romney's plan for weeks, and have since doubled down on it since the debate. Now that the source that the Choad-in-Chief has been citing to claim Romney is a liar is calling Obama out on his own falsehoods, how exactly is that confirming to someone's bias?

__________________________

You don't think that Obama and his crew claiming that a man who documents his disageements with them actually agrees with them is confirmation bias in an almost psychotic version?

Seems a petty firm confirmation to me.

Some seem to believe that when the left makes a bogus charge it is due to the fact that at that moment they are using that exact tactic they hang on the other side.

I think that is ridiculous and just a coincidence. I think the left is using every form of hypocrisy and dishonesty anyone can imagine, so of course when they blame the other side they are doing it.

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Author: drebbin Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107096 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/9/2012 10:43 AM
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bdluckyshot: Obama and Company have been pushing this lie about Romney's plan for weeks, and have since doubled down on it since the debate. Now that the source that the Choad-in-Chief has been citing to claim Romney is a liar is calling Obama out on his own falsehoods, how exactly is that confirming to someone's bias?

What you are witnessing is the left-wing information cocoon. They are sequestered inside, safely protecting themselves from any reality that might not conform with their preconceived ideas. Take a look at their "lie" meme from the beginning. It all starts with one very flawed premise: they assume that whatever 0bama says is the gospel truth, so therefore, anything that contradicts that must be a lie. Consequently, when Romney explains that his tax plan isn't to cut taxes by $5 trillion, they declare that to be a "lie", because 0bama says it is. This pattern exists throughout their campaign to paint Romney/Ryan as liars. They can't actually come up with any lies, only things that disagree with 0bama's claims. To them, that makes it a lie. It isn't exactly the stuff of intellectual titans, but, well, look who you are dealing with.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107122 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/9/2012 2:36 PM
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Maybe it's because the Romney "lies" all seem to be invisible, while Obama's lies are clear as day.

That's about as good an example/definition of conformation bias as there is: you see the facts that support your beliefs, but those that contradict them are invisible to you.

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Author: bdluckyshot Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107130 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/9/2012 2:53 PM
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That's about as good an example/definition of conformation bias as there is: you see the facts that support your beliefs, but those that contradict them are invisible to you.



Yeah, I get it--that was for effect. Pretty sad that the patron saint of moderate centrism and center-right governance is getting called out for lying by the very source he's citing as proof of the alleged lies he's trying to pin on his opponent. Even more sad that other moderates such as yourself are so emotionally invested in his failed presidency that you're not even willing to call him for being the abysmal failure that he is.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107133 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/9/2012 3:11 PM
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Pretty sad that the patron saint of moderate centrism and center-right governance is getting called out for lying by the very source he's citing as proof of the alleged lies he's trying to pin on his opponent.

Obama's the patron saint of center-right governance?

Anyway, Rosen didn't call Obama a liar. Vile did. Rosen says the Obama campaign misrepresented his study in a press release. The campaign email said Rosen said Romney's tax plan will raise taxes on $100K to $200K incomes. Rosen says it's plausible that it might not.


Even more sad that other moderates such as yourself are so emotionally invested in his failed presidency that you're not even willing to call him for being the abysmal failure that he is.

What makes you think I'm emotionally invested in Obama?

In what way has his presidency failed?

I'd say he's been mediocre.

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Author: bdluckyshot Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107181 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/10/2012 6:07 AM
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Rosen didn't call Obama a liar. Vile did. Rosen says the Obama campaign misrepresented his study in a press release.


And you wonder why people think you're only interested in playing word games.


In what way has his presidency failed?


Seriously? It would take less time to list ways that he hasn't failed.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107182 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/10/2012 6:19 AM
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Rosen didn't call Obama a liar. Vile did. Rosen says the Obama campaign misrepresented his study in a press release.

_______________________________________

LMAO

Thanks, I love when you go to the absolute definition of absurd and then blow right through.

I do not even know which of you this is, but heck if you are going to be this absolutely absurd, I may have to un-Pbox some of you I may have been missing some good laughs.

On the other side, I now understand far better, why Romney is a liar and Obama is not seems to permeate the left.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107190 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/10/2012 10:34 AM
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Rosen didn't call Obama a liar. Vile did. Rosen says the Obama campaign misrepresented his study in a press release.
---
And you wonder why people think you're only interested in playing word games.


Umm... I'm not playing word games. You know what a "lie" is, right? It's not a misinterpretation of data. Rosen didn't say the Obama campaign lied. He said "I can't tell how the Obama campaign reached that characterization of my work." Campaigns spin studies all the time. Romney misrepresented a more than a few in the debate.

My point is about confirmation bias. When Romney does it, his supporters don't see it, or they rationalize it. The reverse is true for Obama. In the case we're discussing, the Obama campaign cites a study (among several) that they claim show that Romney's tax plan will raise taxes on the middle class.* One author of the study is saying: hold on, my study doesn't say exactly that.

For you and Vile and others that means Obama is telling a lie. But you almost completely ignore similar and worse Romney whoppers. That's confirmation bias. Get it yet?





Seriously? It would take less time to list ways that he hasn't failed.

Okay. Just list the tope three failures.


*You don't need a study for that. Just common sense. If you cut taxes for people earning $250K+ and increase spending (Romney surely will do both) to remain revenue neutral the money has to come from somewhere: higher taxes on everyone else.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107191 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/10/2012 10:46 AM
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Thanks, I love when you go to the absolute definition of absurd and then blow right through.

Umm... okay. You think the deficit going from $1.4 trillion when Obama took office to $1.1 trillion now is "doubling the deficit," and I'm the one being ridiculous.

You ignore whoppers like "doubling the deficit" or "Dodd-Frank gives 'too-big-to-fail' banks a 'blank check,'" but when a professor says "I'm not sure how they got that from my study, they must have assumed 'X'" it's an outrageous lie.

Like I've said, it's classic confirmation bias. You don't see or ignore your guy's whoppers and inflate the other guy's spin into lies and get really, really excited about them.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107199 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/10/2012 12:33 PM
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*You don't need a study for that. Just common sense. If you cut taxes for people earning $250K+ and increase spending (Romney surely will do both) to remain revenue neutral the money has to come from somewhere: higher taxes on everyone else.

That's where the problem is. Romney's plan is to basically simplify the tax code by getting rid of some deductions. Your tax rate will actually be pretty close to what the IRS schedule says you should pay (depending on what deductions aren't cut, of course.) And those rates will be lower, which should stimulate the economy and lead to higher government revenues (which happens to work EVERY TIME it's tried). Get rid of some of the crap government pays for but shouldn't (PBS was an example, not a complete list of course) and suddenly we can do an odd thing, pay down some of our horrendous debt.

What deductions can he cut? Hell, how many thousands of pages is the tax code? That it is so long is beyond ridiculous, it's absolutely disgusting. Even cutting 100-pages worth of asinine deductions a month would leave PLENTY more to cut after four years! Cutting that monstrosity is a bit more complicated than can be expressed in a sound-byte. Just explaining what you'd cut would be a novel-length report!

Still, what is 0bama's solution? Make the tax code more complicated and add more loopholes to benefit his favored groups? That's precisely the WRONG direction IMHO. Sure, it may buy him the votes of those groups, but that just shows who the greedy jerks really are in this equation. It isn't the 1%, nor small business owners, etc. Their overall tax expenses are likely to go up if Romney succeeds, of course they'd gladly pay it as so would their profits. It's a win-win-win, the only losers are 0bama and liberals in that equation which is just fine with me.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 107221 of 134161
Subject: Re: Shocker: Zero the Actual Liar Date: 10/10/2012 3:54 PM
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Romney's plan is to basically simplify the tax code by getting rid of some deductions. Your tax rate will actually be pretty close to what the IRS schedule says you should pay (depending on what deductions aren't cut, of course.)

First, thanks for the explanation. Second, I'm a huge fan of simplifying the tax code.

But that's a very big "depending on..." And that's why it's impossible to evaluate the effect of the plan without the loopholes details. Romney says he's not going to touch the two biggest deductions, home mortgage interest and charitable gifts, so where is the money going to come from to make it revenue neutral?

The fact of the matter is that when you change the tax code in a revenue neutral way, there are winners and losers. Who are the winners and losers in Romney's plan? Based on what he's said (insofar as he's consistent) it has to be the middle class. I don't see any way around it.


And those rates will be lower, which should stimulate the economy and lead to higher government revenues (which happens to work EVERY TIME it's tried).

Every time? Which time? Revenues did not increase in 2001, 2002 or 2003 after tax cuts.


Get rid of some of the crap government pays for but shouldn't (PBS was an example, not a complete list of course) and suddenly we can do an odd thing, pay down some of our horrendous debt.

PBS is a bad example. The amount of money involved in tiny. Cutting it (fine by me) won't solve anything. It's like saying you're going to pay your mortgage with the coins you find in the sofa cushions.


What deductions can he cut? Hell, how many thousands of pages is the tax code? That it is so long is beyond ridiculous, it's absolutely disgusting.

Sure, but you can't honestly say "closing loopholes will offset the 20% rate decrease unless you know what those loopholes are and how much they'll save."



Still, what is 0bama's solution? Make the tax code more complicated and add more loopholes to benefit his favored groups?

For example?


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