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Author: lindytoes Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 59181  
Subject: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/12/2012 10:17 PM
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Owners of some Remington shotguns, rifles claim pattern of inadvertent discharges
video and article on the page
http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/11/11148671-ow...
<snip>
No government agency can order a manufacturer to recall a defective gun. In fact, Congress specifically barred the Consumer Product Safety Commission from regulating firearms and ammunition, in keeping with the Second Amendment guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms. That means gun manufacturers police themselves.

But critics say Remington is shirking its responsibility when it comes to the firing mechanism used in some of the most popular long guns in America, including the shotgun owned by Justen Yerger.
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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 41999 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/12/2012 10:31 PM
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"No government agency can order a manufacturer to recall a defective gun. In fact, Congress specifically barred the Consumer Product Safety Commission from regulating firearms and ammunition, in keeping with the Second Amendment guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms. That means gun manufacturers police themselves."

Great..otherwise, well meaning libs would be suing the pants off every gun manufacturer over made up claims about 'defects' and demanding every gun ever made be recalled and destroyed.

Just like Nader did in the Corvair...which, by the way, wasn't 'unsafe at any speed'. YOu had to drive it like an idiot to cause problems. Idiots can crash any car.

Or the alleged 'fire prone Volt batteries'...turns out the NTSB ruled that the Volt was perfectly safe..it was just improper handling procedure after a MAJOR accident had TOTALLED the car. Later..not while the accident occured....

Sorry....

Libs would use it to shut down the gun industry if they could.


Let's see...10 million or more shotguns out there, and one or two incidents where someone claims 'the safety was on' but the gun went off?

Hmmm....how many car accidents because 'folks hit the wrong pedal'?

How many car accidents happen because folks 'set the brake on the car' , get out, and the car rolls into a) house b) tree c) another car d) causes accident?

hmmmm....


Sorry....the lib whine about 'gun safety' never ends. THey're just looking for a wedge to stop the gun industry from making guns, massive trillion dollar 'class action lawsuits' that give customers $2.99 each in settlement but the lawyers 100 million.....

Why don't you try another story..

Like how the 99 year old grannie was tied up with duct tape and terrorized?

Or 500 black on black murders in Chicago this year? Where Obama says nothing, and his buddy now Chicago mayor Rahm 'blames it on others'?

huh?

LIndylib is 'scared' of guns.


t.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42000 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/13/2012 12:43 AM
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Guns??? It's those darned hoodies that worry me. Anyone can buy one and wear it anywhere. Heck, teenagers can wear hoodies at night while they walk home carrying iced tea and skittles. What could be more dangerous than that?

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42004 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/13/2012 10:50 AM
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Since my liberal friends like to claim that the PURPOSE of a lot of firearms is to shoot people, why would you suppose that a shotgun that can do that spontaneously is defective anyway?

Seems like a unique, purpose built design.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42005 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/13/2012 10:54 AM
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<<Guns??? It's those darned hoodies that worry me. Anyone can buy one and wear it anywhere. Heck, teenagers can wear hoodies at night while they walk home carrying iced tea and skittles. What could be more dangerous than that? >>


I read about a judge who locked up a kid for contempt for wearing baggy, saggy pants in his courtroom.

There's a likely candidate for a Supreme Court nomination a few years down the pike.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42007 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/13/2012 12:31 PM
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Since my liberal friends like to claim that the PURPOSE of a lot of firearms is to shoot people, why would you suppose that a shotgun that can do that spontaneously is defective anyway?

Careful, that's not what Art said:

And let's face it, pistols are made for one thing - shooting other people. They are no damn good for hunting no matter what some folks may tell you. Rifles/shotguns are totally different than pistols.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42010 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/13/2012 2:21 PM
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It's those darned hoodies that worry me. Anyone can buy one and wear it anywhere. Heck, teenagers can wear hoodies at night while they walk home carrying iced tea and skittles. What could be more dangerous than that?

My 16-month-old grandson has 3 hoodies--when should we start to worry about him? I caught him walking back to his room carrying a cuddle-cloth and a rice rusk just a few minutes ago...I shall keep a skeptical eye on this future hoodlum (no doubt from the same root as hoodie ;-)

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42011 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/13/2012 2:23 PM
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I read about a judge who locked up a kid for contempt for wearing baggy, saggy pants in his courtroom.
There's a likely candidate for a Supreme Court nomination a few years down the pike.


I fergit...where in the Comstitooshun does it say your clothing must fit snugly?

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42030 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/14/2012 10:17 AM
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<<I read about a judge who locked up a kid for contempt for wearing baggy, saggy pants in his courtroom.
There's a likely candidate for a Supreme Court nomination a few years down the pike.

I fergit...where in the Comstitooshun does it say your clothing must fit snugly?>>


No, but it gives judges extensive powers, and that often extends to state judges as well.

I guess if those appearing before that judge have their butt crack exposed to the judge, he takes it as an insulting gesture.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42047 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/14/2012 9:51 PM
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I guess if those appearing before that judge have their butt crack exposed to the judge, he takes it as an insulting gesture.

Isn't it just like ladies' cleavage?!
;-)

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42050 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/15/2012 12:19 AM
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"Isn't it just like ladies' cleavage?!" - alstromeria


I'm going to fess up here and admit something politically incorrect. I agree with Seattle Pioneer that I find "saggin" pants on boys and young men to be ridiculous and disrespectful. I admit that when it comes to some things I am very conservative. When you go in a courtroom there is a certain level of dress and manners that are expected and coming in sloppily dressed with saggy pants on is just ignorant.

It's like these guys are too lazy to pull up their own pants? I just want to say to them, "pull up your damn pants!" It probably has to do with the separation of generations. I am after all fast approaching 60 years of age! I also don't like hip hop, rap, and I'm not crazy about rock N'roll either!

Sorry! Art

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42078 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/16/2012 12:06 PM
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There are stories of Remington being defective but I have not seen a lot of proof yet. The person in the news article leaned a loaded gun against his truck. Although he swears it just went off, it is hard to be sure he didn't do something wrong to cause it. He did do something wrong by having a loaded gun leaning against the truck. In many places, you can't load until you are away from the vehicle and need to unload before you get back. If you have a loaded gun next to the vehicle, you can be considered hunting from the roadside which is an offense in many places.

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Author: putnid Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42080 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/16/2012 12:23 PM
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There are stories of Remington being defective but I have not seen a lot of proof yet.

There's more to the Remington story than meets the eye. CNBC conducted an investigation and aired this story:

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=1616222630

CNBC's 10-month investigation stretched from Florida to Alaska, turning up thousands of complaints, two dozen deaths, more than 100 injuries and 75-plus lawsuits, all alleging the gun fired without the trigger being pulled.

Worth viewing, particularly if you own a Remington 700.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42081 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/16/2012 12:47 PM
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<<CNBC's 10-month investigation stretched from Florida to Alaska, turning up thousands of complaints, two dozen deaths, more than 100 injuries and 75-plus lawsuits, all alleging the gun fired without the trigger being pulled.

Worth viewing, particularly if you own a Remington 700. >>


If Dick Cheney had a Remington shotgun when he wounded that lawyer, perhaps he could go back and re write history.


Frankly, I am FAR more likely to believe that EVERY such episode was excuse making after the fact than an actual defect in the shotgun.


I suspect that the design of trigger mechanisms was perfected a long time ago. Unless there is something new or unique about the trigger design of this shotgun or a critical engineering analysis demonstrating a defect, I would dismiss ALL anecdotes.

Either there is a defect in design or there isn't. Engineers and gun designers are people who would have an opinion worth listening to, but lawyers looking to collect a contingency fee are not where I would go for information. That includes CNBC.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: putnid Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42083 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/16/2012 1:18 PM
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I suspect that the design of trigger mechanisms was perfected a long time ago. Unless there is something new or unique about the trigger design of this shotgun or a critical engineering analysis demonstrating a defect, I would dismiss ALL anecdotes. - Seattle Pioneer

It's pretty obvious from your comments that you did not view the video, opting instead to serve up pointless nostrums.

Had you actually watched the video, you'd know that the trigger mechanism IS the question.

For those genuinely interested in this subject, here's a text link:

http://tinyurl.com/7rsb85s

The Remington Model 700-series rifle - with more than 5 million sold - is one of the world’s most popular firearms. Famous for its accuracy, the rifle is now the target of a series of lawsuits claiming that it is unsafe and susceptible to firing without pulling the trigger.

Remington insists its rifle is safe and free of any defect, though internal documents obtained by CNBC indicate the company has wrestled with concerns over the gun’s safety for some 60 years. The documents reveal that on at least two occasions, the company considered – and then decided against – a modification of the original trigger design intended to eliminate inadvertent discharges. One of those proposed fixes would have cost Remington 5.5 cents per gun, according to the company’s own calculations.

The Barber family sued Remington, and as a result the company agreed in 2002 to modify certain older 700 rifles for a fee of $20. But the settlement stopped short of a full recall, and the basic design of the rifle stayed the same.

CNBC found that from the very beginning, the company looked at ways to fix its bolt-action rifle, even contemplating a nationwide recall. But on more than one occasion, Remington decided against a recall.


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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42086 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/16/2012 2:23 PM
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<<The Barber family sued Remington, and as a result the company agreed in 2002 to modify certain older 700 rifles for a fee of $20. But the settlement stopped short of a full recall, and the basic design of the rifle stayed the same.

CNBC found that from the very beginning, the company looked at ways to fix its bolt-action rifle, even contemplating a nationwide recall. But on more than one occasion, Remington decided against a recall.>>


Sorry, but NONE of this is evidence of any real defect in the shotgun.

Anecdotes and allegations don't cut it. Settling a lawsuit isn't evidence of a defect either.


Had Dick Chaney's shotgun been one of these Remingtons, would he have had a good excuse for shooting the lawyer? Seems like that would have been a great anecdote!


Seattle Pioneer

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42089 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/16/2012 3:34 PM
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Worth viewing, particularly if you own a Remington 700.

Yes, that's my gun. Bought it back in 1977.

PSU

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42093 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/16/2012 5:17 PM
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<<Worth viewing, particularly if you own a Remington 700.

Yes, that's my gun. Bought it back in 1977.

PSU >>



How do you evaluate these claims of a defect in the trigger mechanism, may I ask?



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42098 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 4/16/2012 10:12 PM
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How do you evaluate these claims of a defect in the trigger mechanism, may I ask?

Hard to say since you don't know the real facts in any case. In the linked article, the guy demonstrated poor gun handling. Therefore it wouldn't be surprising if the gun didn't just go off.

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 42683 of 59181
Subject: Re: Since we love to talk about guns Date: 5/12/2012 1:12 AM
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I am in our local Courthouse on a constant basis. Last week, a young man in line before me (we go through a metal detector) had on very baggy pants, which dipped below his shirt. I asked him if he were going to court, and he said "Yes." I advised him to pull up his pants, tuck his shirt in, and tighten his belt. He did so, and thanked me.

Day before yesterday, I saw a nice-looking young man, dark pants, white shirt and tie, with a humongous gold necklace on. I asked him if he was going to court and he answered in the affirmative. I advise him to remove his "bling" and place it in his pocket before entering the Courthroom. He did, and profusely thanked me. He did have very nice manners, and I would hate for him to give the wrong impression. In fact, his entire family were quite nice.

Donna (who at her age, can dispense advise in a minute, especially with my experience in Courtrooms as a legal assistant)

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