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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 886579  
Subject: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/27/2012 10:43 PM
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How y'all doing? Miss me?

Thought I'd check in and let you know what's been going on with me, fill you in on some of my LBYM activities of late.

I made a decision earlier in the year to return to Memphis from Dallas. I needed to be closer to my mom, who was diagnosed with Parkinson's on top of other ailments she has as well. I left behind a house in Dallas which I was able to quickly rent out (yeah!) after doing some work to it (boo! It cost quite a bit).

I had bought a small house in Memphis--a foreclosure, in early 2012. It was a crazy purchase, bought sight unseen, for a mere $38,000. I thought maybe I'd have it as rental property, or perhaps my mom could live in it because of some her money problems. $15,0000 in work later, I'm living in it, mortgage-free, and am pretty happy about it. It's turned out to be a snug little house, with lovely hardwood floors, a huge wooded fenced yard that my dogs love, and extremely friendly neighbors. I'm not sure that there's a more secure feeling than knowing my house is paid for, and that if times get really bad, I just need to be able to pay the taxes ($1200 a year) and utilities (average about $90 a month) and whatever maintenance is needed. It's a 1950's house, only 980 square feet. I don't have a dishwasher or garbage disposal, and I don't miss them at all. I still somehow managed to cook a lovely Thanksgiving dinner, which everyone really enjoyed, and we all had a good time. It's way easier to clean, too, and I don't miss any of the stuff I got rid of to move in here.

On the personal side, I went through a bit of a rough time, but came through on the other side. I had a job that was REALLY stressing me out. Long, long hours, impossible work load, demanding boss. Between that, not being able to take any vacation, stuff going on with my mom and brother, and a few other things, I cracked a little. No major meltdown, but I was diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety, was off work for a while, put on some meds, and I'm now doing great.

But it was kind of the warning that I needed that my life as it was was crazy-making and unsustainable. I took a job with my company that's a non-management position, and I'm pretty satisfied about it right now. The time may come when I'm not, but for right now, I go to work in the morning, do my stuff, and come home at the end of the day. Working 40 hours a week feels like a gift after working 50+ for the last several years.

My mom, who I'm getting to spend a lot of time with, says I'm a lot different, more relaxed, and miracle of miracles, I've even quit biting my nails, something I've done for 40+ years.

Though all this, I made a really conscious decision to simplify my life. My house is smaller and easier to maintain. Less stuff means less worry. I am eating (a little bit) better and getting (a little) more exercise. I did run up a few credit card bills during the repair of the old house and the work on the new house, but it's being paid off rapidly. I made the conscious decision not to have TV at home for right now, and I've rediscovered my joy of reading. I finally got the internet at home, just tonight, and the Fool was pretty much my first stop. (Don't you all feel special??).

But seriously, I did want to stop in and say hi to my online friends, see what was going on. In my new spirit of simplicity, I'm going to skip reading all the posts I've missed over the last several months, and just start fresh again.

I have to say that in so many ways I feel happier and more satisfied right now than I've felt in the last several years. It's also a real privilege to be physically close to my mom again--she's just up the road--because I hadn't really realized exactly how much she's declined. I know that I would have had a lot of regrets if I didn't move back here when I had the opportunity.

Anyway, it's good to be back.
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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869144 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 12:08 AM
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Welcome back!

I'd say that your life has changed for the better, despite some discouragement here and there. I hope you'll stay around.

Nancy

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Author: Wessex99 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869145 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 12:36 AM
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How lovely to see you back, and with such good changes to a simpler life. Best wishes,

Wessex

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Author: snippee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869146 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 1:47 AM
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Janet!!! So glad you checked in. You always have the best updates. :)

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Author: tconi Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869147 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 4:13 AM
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I'm going to skip reading all the posts I've missed over the last several months,

Well, here is what you missed

the usual round of posts about these topics that devolved into political/judgmental/blame the unions/blame the parents/blame a political party/pull yourself up by the bootstraps you dont have/get a job nonsense:

Walmart, Welfare/Food stamp recipients, dumpster diving, Student Loans,insurance, marriage (where SP chimed in with the usual), taxes, pre-election stuff

desertdave!!! has tried to increase board participation through the use of ALL CAPS and Exclamation Points!!! and lots of OT posts

A few cooking/kitchen related threads- bones, recipes, appliances, school lunches

spl closed the shop.

If you follow Ezlington, (the trooper of the day guy), he has received a serious diagnosis and has limited time, so go read up on the BI board.

Glad you made the choice that seems like it was right for you...

peace & not much
t

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Author: jrdown Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869148 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 8:08 AM
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Dear Miss Edith ~

It is good to see you and hear of the positive changes that you have made in order to "get your life back".

Congratulations on having no mortgage. Although many disagree I know that having freedom from that burden is a blessing and I am working hard to make that happen for my dad as well. It will either be paid off in 7 years or 3 depending upon a few things. But, my dad (89 years old) is excited about the possibility of seeing a home paid off.

You have taken control and purging your life of things that interfere. I was talking with my 19 year-old son last night and I told him that if I had to choose between television or a computer there would be no question. TV would be long gone. We got a Bose cd/radio on clearance at a Bose store and have been so happy with the incredible sound put out by that little machine. My goal is to bring more music in my dad's life.


Robyn

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Author: Hardboiled Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869152 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 10:09 AM
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Yes -- We missed you! And it sounds like you're doing very well. And you're ready to come back to TMF!

Gail

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Author: joikim Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869153 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 10:23 AM
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Congratulations, it seems like things have really worked out. Weird how we have to go into the darkness before we can see and enjoy the light. Welcome back.
JK

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Author: WendyBG Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869154 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 10:43 AM
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Very glad to see you back!

Thank you for sharing your process, because we can learn from you how letting go of the unimportant and embracing the important enriches life.

Wishing you many happy years with your mother and your new home,
Wendy

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Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869157 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 11:54 AM
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Miss Edith,

What an encouraging post. So glad to read that things have worked out so well for you despite a few hiccups. I am in awe that you bought a house sight-unseen and it has turned into a cozy haven with a bit of work and that the neighbors are so great. I'm also happy to know that you got to downsize your job, but with the same company and that your hours and turmoil have decreased significantly.

All the best to you and yours.

Chili

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Author: SpeedBump13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869159 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 12:07 PM
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I'm still stuck in "Dallas" for few more years. I have decided that I would rather not work than work under the conditions you describe. I like being a full-time investor-activist, but occasionally feel the need for money or human contact other than my wife and son.

-Wes (lives in Tarrant Co.)

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Author: slowlythere Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869165 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 1:49 PM
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How y'all doing? Miss me?

Yes, you have been missed. :)

Wonderful update and how almost everything has turned out so far. Glad that you are back and hope you will have the time to hang around again.

If I might add, so incredibly on topic and such an inspiration that I almost forgot that this is what LBYM is all about, before, during, and after. In my humble opinion, of course.

Thank you.

ST

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869177 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 3:20 PM
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Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.

desertdave!!! has tried to increase board participation through the use of ALL CAPS and Exclamation Points!!! and lots of OT posts

El WrongO!

you misrepresent me madame! I do not use ALL CAPS! And seldom use more than one exclamation point!

(I recall using multiple exclamation points a week or so ago for humor's sake, but other than that I eschew multiple exclamation points.)

I use boldface and italics (often in combination) to emphasize principle points.

I suspect you are confusing me with those other people who use ALL CAPS and multiple exclamation points.

Desert (Not Guilty!) Dave

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869179 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 3:35 PM
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desertdave!!! has tried to increase board participation through the use of ALL CAPS and Exclamation Points!!! and lots of OT posts

Oops! OK, I'm guilty of the OT posts thingie. I can stop if people would rather I not do so.

Desert (The world's greatest excuse pales in the face of mediocre performance.) Dave
-- (Quotation, with attribution, permitted and encouraged.)

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869185 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 4:05 PM
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Oops! OK, I'm guilty of the OT posts thingie. I can stop if people would rather I not do so.

You could try limiting yourself to one per week. Some OT posts are interesting but an excess of them starts cluttering a board.

PSU

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Author: tconi Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869187 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 4:29 PM
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my mistake on the all caps-
and the excess punctuation maybe sticks in one's head when the threads continues...
http://boards.fool.com/living-below-your-means-100158.aspx?m...


peace & just an observation
t

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Author: DLester78 Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869189 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 5:03 PM
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Never posted here before but I wanted to say I admire the decision to focus on self worth and net worth rather than posessions. Good Luck with being a care giver. Remember to care for yourself first.

Cheers

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Author: FreethinkerKW Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869192 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 5:26 PM
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Welcome home, Kiddo.

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Author: malaoshi Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869193 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 6:01 PM
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Welcome back!!!.and congrats on the new home, your satisfaction with it, the better pace at work....and the new fingernails ;)

We just took two visiting Memphian friends out for dinner last night here in SF, and caught up with changes there. I must say, they brought good memories of the slow pace in Memphis that we really enjoyed when we lived there...

Hope that cherishing your mom and your brother is not going to be too much.

Looking forward to your good sense on all the boards...

Big Momma

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869195 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 6:25 PM
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Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.

Oops! OK, I'm guilty of the OT posts thingie. I can stop if people would rather I not do so.

You could try limiting yourself to one per week. Some OT posts are interesting but an excess of them starts cluttering a board.


I'm glad to hear some people find at least some of them interesting.

;-)

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869196 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 6:43 PM
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my mistake on the all caps-
and the excess punctuation maybe sticks in one's head when the threads continues...


Oh! You were talking about the subject line header! Ayup! Guilty as charged!

OK, The Motley Fool (TMF) truncates letters and HTML tags in the subject line. This is of little consequence until someone replies and TMF automatically inserts "Re:(space)" that's four characters which are added to the front end of the subject line which can push the original title past the truncation point.

If the characters are those HTML characters that make up an exclamation point or question mark the integrity of the HTML tag making up that character is destroyed. The result is something that the subject line displayed looks something like this: " < & ' " >" or some such.

I hate it when that happens!

So I've found that by placing multiple ???????????? or !!!!!!!!!!!!!! at the end of those subject headers I somehow eliminate the partial HTML tags.

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Author: bookie71 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869198 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 6:52 PM
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I enjoy most of your off topic posts. Maybe label better (O.T.) and let the folks who don't like to skip.

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869199 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 7:12 PM
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Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.
You will be able to recommend 7 more posts today. (explain this)


I enjoy most of your off topic posts. Maybe label better (O.T.) and let the folks who don't like to skip.

THANKS!
I try to limit my O.T. posts to stuff that I think would be of interest to the board.

Desert (The world's greatest excuse pales in the face of mediocre performance.) Dave
-- (Quotation, with attribution, permitted and encouraged.)

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Author: InconclusiveFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869200 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 7:34 PM
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"It's also a real privilege to be physically close to my mom again--she's just up the road--because I hadn't really realized exactly how much she's declined."

That's great - taking care of family is the most important thing. We live next door to my Mom, and it is indeed a blessing to do so. Great story, good to hear about your successful journey.

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869202 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 9:13 PM
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I'm glad to hear some people find at least some of them interesting.

Well, if you do limit yourself to one per week, make sure you pick the interesting one.

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Author: desertdaveataol Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869203 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/28/2012 9:55 PM
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I'm glad to hear some people find at least some of them interesting.

Well, if you do limit yourself to one per week, make sure you pick the interesting one.


NFL star reveals football players are using Viagra ... ON the field ...
Naw, too sportsy!

The 'Replyallcalypse' ...
Uh uh, too tech-ey.

Shocking video catches Oklahoma police officer ...
Oh no, too violent!

Menstruation explained Disney-style in 1946 ...
Too old!

'The job is really fun - and the baby's been EASY' ...
Even I don't believe that one!

When butt enhancement goes horribly wrong ...
Too voyeuristic!

'Half-Ton Killer' reveals her ...
Maybeeeeeee...naw

Shot dead 'trying to rob home in Texas ...
It's in Texas, so what else is new?

Sorry, nothing interesting today.

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869208 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/29/2012 8:37 AM
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Glad to see you posting again Edith. Thanks for sharing your story, it sounds wonderful.....although pain and discomfort were involved along the way....it always is though.

Best wishes to you.
LD

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869211 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 11/29/2012 11:47 AM
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I'm glad to hear some people find at least some of them interesting.

Well, if you do limit yourself to one per week, make sure you pick the interesting one.

NFL star reveals football players are using Viagra ... ON the field ...
Naw, too sportsy!

The 'Replyallcalypse' ...
Uh uh, too tech-ey.

Shocking video catches Oklahoma police officer ...
Oh no, too violent!

Menstruation explained Disney-style in 1946 ...
Too old!

'The job is really fun - and the baby's been EASY' ...
Even I don't believe that one!

When butt enhancement goes horribly wrong ...
Too voyeuristic!

'Half-Ton Killer' reveals her ...
Maybeeeeeee...naw

Shot dead 'trying to rob home in Texas ...
It's in Texas, so what else is new?

Sorry, nothing interesting today.
desertdave

_______________


Look, a squirrel!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

jack russell dog owner

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Author: llamalluv Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869251 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/1/2012 8:57 PM
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Glad to hear that you are doing well.

Our house has no dishwasher or garbage disposal, either, and after visiting friends and relatives with them over the Thanksgiving holiday, I can't say that I noticed any time savings with either of them.

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Author: ems79 Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869284 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/4/2012 5:58 PM
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no dishwasher or garbage disposal, either, and after visiting friends and relatives with them over the Thanksgiving holiday, I can't say that I noticed any time savings with either of them.

You're joking right?

It takes about as much time to load/unload dishes into the dishwasher as it does into the sink... So your time savings with a dishwasher are represented by any amount of time you would have spent actually washing or drying dishes... it might not be worth it for 1 or 2 dishes, but when you have 5-6 people dirtying plates, flatware, glasses and all the dishes/pots/pans used to prepare the meal... it's considerable. It's also convenient to have the sink free while the dishes are being cleaned (or waiting to be cleaned).

I agree on the garbage disposer not saving much time... that is really just a convenience thing to not have to clean out a strainer... anyone who puts much more then that down there is just asking for plumbing issues...

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Author: vkg Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869286 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/4/2012 9:23 PM
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I agree on the garbage disposer not saving much time... that is really just a convenience thing to not have to clean out a strainer... anyone who puts much more then that down there is just asking for plumbing issues...

We haven't had plumbing problems from using a garbage disposal. It is nice to not have food decomposing in the trash. Since garbage disposals don't cut (they mostly pound things into a mush), it is necessary to be careful about what is put through a garbage disposal.

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Author: 2gifts Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869307 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/5/2012 12:48 PM
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Our house has no dishwasher or garbage disposal, either, and after visiting friends and relatives with them over the Thanksgiving holiday, I can't say that I noticed any time savings with either of them.

I can agree on the disposal, but definitely disagree on the dishwasher, although I can see how it might work out to no time savings for people who like to wash their dishes before putting them in the dishwasher to wash them again.

In my case, I scrape the food into the trash, load the dishes in the dishwasher, and run it. There's no pre-rinsing even of cooked on food, and certainly no pre-washing (had a neighbor once who actually washed her dishes complete with soap, rinsed them, and put them in the dishwasher). In that case, I don't have to take the time to actually wash and dry the dishes as that is done by the machine, and I actually get to sit down with my company and socialize on the holiday.

In my house, the dishwasher will run multiple times on the holiday depending on how many people are there, but it runs at least once for dishes and once for the bigger things like the pans.


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Author: llamalluv Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869310 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/5/2012 1:51 PM
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You're joking right?

Nope.

It takes about as much time to load/unload dishes into the dishwasher as it does into the sink.

No, it takes far longer to load a dishwasher properly than it does to drop dishes in a sink. But that's not how I hand wash, anyway. I fill up the left sink half way with soapy water, the right sink with rinsing water, and set a towel on the counter to the right. Dishes get scraped into the trash, stacked to the left, get washed, rinsed, then piled on the towel to drip until all the dishes are washed. Then they get dried with a different towel and put away (by me or someone else). It takes less than 20 minutes to do dinner dishes (including cookware and serving pieces) for 10 people that way.

I can clean the whole kitchen in the time it takes the dishwasher to just do the dishes "halfway". The dishwasher takes at least 30 minutes just to cycle, and you still have to add in loading, drying, and unloading time, plus putting things back in for another cycle that didn't get cleaned. Lipstick on glasses, for instance, or the disgusting cycle of dishes that came out filthier than when they went in, because "the water softener ran out of pellets".

And you shouldn't put the fancy china or the plated flatware in the dishwasher, so those have to be washed by hand, too.

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Author: 2gifts Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869312 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/5/2012 2:05 PM
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Dishes get scraped into the trash, stacked to the left, get washed, rinsed, then piled on the towel to drip until all the dishes are washed.

So in my house, dishes get scraped into the trash, and put into the dishwasher. That's a lot less time than stacking, washing, rinsing, and putting on a towel. And I get to actually sit down during the holiday and visit.

And you shouldn't put the fancy china or the plated flatware in the dishwasher, so those have to be washed by hand, too.

In my house, I have one rule - if it fits in the dishwasher, it gets washed in the dishwasher.


I can clean the whole kitchen in the time it takes the dishwasher to just do the dishes "halfway". The dishwasher takes at least 30 minutes just to cycle, and you still have to add in loading, drying, and unloading time, plus putting things back in for another cycle that didn't get cleaned. Lipstick on glasses, for instance, or the disgusting cycle of dishes that came out filthier than when they went in, because "the water softener ran out of pellets".


I use the time that my dishwasher is running to socialize with my guests and actually enjoy the holiday myself. And I do have a dishwasher (Bosch) that I love because it gets the dishes clean in one washing regardless of how dirty they are, and I don't pre-soak, pre-wash, or scrub off burnt-on food. I just put everything in the dishwasher and let it do the work.

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Author: YewGuise Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869313 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/5/2012 2:22 PM
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...putting things back in for another cycle that didn't get cleaned. Lipstick on glasses, for instance, or the disgusting cycle of dishes that came out filthier than when they went in, because "the water softener ran out of pellets".

Ah, there's the catch. You have an old and/or cheap dishwasher. In which case, you're right, it's useless. Just wash by hand.

My feeling is that if I'm going to have a dishwasher, I'll have one that's good enough to do the job and thereby save me time. So I bought a top-rated one. Minimal scraping beforehand, no rinsing, everything gets clean in one cycle, and oh by the way it saves water.

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Author: LQu Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869315 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/5/2012 3:05 PM
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No, it takes far longer to load a dishwasher properly than it does to drop dishes in a sink.

That's a head-scratcher for me. It takes me virtually the same amount of time to place a dish or cup in the sink as it does to put it in the dishwasher. After all, open door/slide rack takes literally, what..one second? I've used the machine often enough to know where the stuff needs to go. Cups get plopped in one area, bowls stack in another, dishes fit in their pre-determined slots, large bowls fit best in one particular area, etc. Once you know your machine & your dishes, there's not much thought needed to put stuff in there.

It takes less than 20 minutes to do dinner dishes (including cookware and serving pieces) for 10 people that way.

I can guar-un-tee you there's no way it takes me 20 minutes to load a dishwasher after a meal for 10! Scraping dishes is required for both methods, so that's a wash <cough>. And I don't pre-rinse. It all goes in the machine filthy. It takes time to run the water for handwashing & to place the dishes in the sink or on the counter so you don't break items either.

Then they get dried with a different towel

No time spent to dry dishwasher dishes. I let them air-dry.

The dishwasher takes at least 30 minutes just to cycle, and you still have to add in loading, drying, and unloading time, plus putting things back in for another cycle that didn't get cleaned. Lipstick on glasses, for instance, or the disgusting cycle of dishes that came out filthier than when they went in, because "the water softener ran out of pellets".

But while the dishwasher is running, one is free to do other things. I don't use a drying cycle. I open the door at the end & let the steam out. The dishes are hot enough from the sani-rinse cycle that they off-steam and dry almost immediately (other than plastics). And while that's happening, I'm free to do other things, again. The fact that a full wash and drying time might take 2 hours is a non sequitor. You're not chained to the machine, after all. Plus, I tend to run the machine after the dinner dishes whenever I can time it that way. After I open the door to let the steam out, I just let them sit to dry the rest of the way until the morning and put them away then. That gives the plastics time to dry.

Both methods require putting dishes away, so no difference between "unloading" a machine and putting away dishes from the counter. My machine is right below the cabinet where all the dishes and cups go and next to the pan cabinet & silverware drawer. I can pretty much stand in one spot to put all the everyday things away, other than casserole pans.

But in any case, most dishwashers are next to sinks, so there's often not much difference to walk around the kitchen put away dishes from the sink counter vs from the machine. I actually find it easier in some ways. I can quickly grab multiple dinner plates, for example, since they're stacked in alignment. Harder to do with counter-stacked dishes on a towel that are arranged more randomly. Maybe about the same if you used a dish rack. But I can't stack a dishwasher-full of dishes in one dish-rack.

If you have a machine that isn't getting lipstick or other grunge off the dishes, the problem is your machine, your detergent or your water temperature, not the actual process of using a dishwasher. That's the first I ever heard of lipstick being an issue? Even my MIL's entry-to-mid-level Kenmore does a fab job on dishes, with just a basic Cascade-type powdered detergent and vinegar for a rinse agent. Dried-on oatmeal, spaghetti sauce, bean-encrusted soup bowls, coffee-stained cups, baked-on crud on broiler pans - it all comes off. Spotless & sparkling. It's very rare to have an item need additional washing. Last year she did start having an issue with cloudy/dirty dishes, but it turned out to be the cheap, "dollar-store" type powder she'd bought. When I had her switch, it went away.

The water softener only needs pellets added every couple of months, so running out is not a daily occurrence that impacts everyday dishwashing. And one should keep the softener maintained for the health of the overall plumbing system, as well as for dishes, drinking, showering, laundry and the like. It's not a chore/expense who's only time-cost is allocated to the dishes.

And you shouldn't put the fancy china or the plated flatware in the dishwasher, so those have to be washed by hand, too.

That I do agree with. We don't use those everyday though, so the dishwasher still does the brunt of the work.

I tend to do the large pots & pans by hand also, unless perhaps they're really cruddy. I can fit so many more individual items in the space that one large pot takes. It takes more time to hand wash many small, individual items than it does to clean out a big pot.

Eons ago I used to be a hand-washer for just the two of us, but I far prefer an empty, clean sink to washing & drying dishes 3x/day. That leaves the sink available for other chores. Plus I feed our pets a raw-food diet. I like having the option of the sani-rinse on the dishwasher, rather than rinsing plates in used rinse-water that's only clean for the first dish. When I do hand-wash, I rinse individually. If I hand-washed everything, I'd use more water than the machine does.

There are pros and cons to both methods, but I don't think the time argument is one of them.

Friends of ours have a machine they only use for parties because they don't generate enough dishes over several days to run the machine before the dishes would start to smell. But they are away from home for many meals. I could see the same applying for a single person as well.

Laura

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Author: PSUEngineer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869319 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/5/2012 4:21 PM
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I tend to do the large pots & pans by hand also, unless perhaps they're really cruddy. I can fit so many more individual items in the space that one large pot takes. It takes more time to hand wash many small, individual items than it does to clean out a big pot.

I can't put my pots in the dishwasher since I have hard-anodized aluminum.

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Author: LQu Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869321 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/5/2012 4:57 PM
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To be fair, there is another consideration to a dishwasher that I left out - stacking correctly.

Some people are better at spacial tasks than others. You do have to take into account the dynamics of how the water will hit the dishes and to not impede the swing of the sprayer arm. If one stacks things so the water can't reach them, then no...they are not going to get clean. And it's not the fault of the machine. Some people do better with figuring that out quickly than others do.

Over a lifetime of dishpan hands, I'll take the time & water-savings, along with the sanitary options, a dishwasher offers, vs always hand-washing.

Even factoring in purchase price, this modern convenience costs a pro-rate $10-$25/yr., before water savings, which can well repay the purchase price. That's based on an average lifespan of 20 years (some have been more) and my purchase of several dishwashers for various properties over time, ranging from $200 for a Bosch(! a steal!) to maybe $450-ish for a Kitchenaid, with a few Whirlpools & Kenmores thrown into the mix.

YMMV.

Some thoughts on the topic:
http://1greengeneration.elementsintime.com/?p=314

Today's machines do a seriously better job than the ones that existed when I first got married. That's played a part in my change of heart over time. As did moving to a house that had room for one, as our first, tiny apartment didn't :).

Laura
reformed handwasher

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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869323 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/5/2012 7:30 PM
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I just don't mind doing dishes. My mom's disposal and dishwasher are broken, and I often cook dinner over there. Doesn't bother me at all to wash dishes and clean up the kitchen; truth be told, that's the one household chore I actually kind of like to do. I guess for me it's a bit of Zen time or something. It kind of takes me back to washing dishes at my grandmother's--she didn't have a dishwasher either. I remember as a kid after holiday meals being in the kitchen while my mom washed and my grandma dried, and their chat and laughter as they did so. Then I got older and was part of it too.

At home, it's just me most of the time, so the dishes are nothing. They used to get smelly in the dishwasher in my old house because I went so long before I had a full load. Now I cook, and often wash while I cook, so I usually don't have too much when the meal's over, just the dishes that were eaten from, and I wash them, let them air dry, put them away and I'm done.

I'll probably get a dishwasher eventually if I ever remodel the kitchen, but right now, it's something that's not important to me at all. I don't know if it takes longer or not--don't really care, for me, because I don't have kids, etc. that a lot of people do to take up their time.

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Author: llamalluv Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869363 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/7/2012 2:16 PM
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I don't have a dishwasher, old or otherwise. I have no idea what the dishwashers in my aunt's house or my friend's house cost.

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Author: llamalluv Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869364 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/7/2012 2:27 PM
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It takes me virtually the same amount of time to place a dish or cup in the sink as it does to put it in the dishwasher. After all, open door/slide rack takes literally, what..one second?

A cup, sure. But 10? Plus 10 plates, and 30 pieces of flat ware?

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Author: LQu Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869381 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/8/2012 2:49 PM
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It takes me virtually the same amount of time to place a dish or cup in the sink as it does to put it in the dishwasher. After all, open door/slide rack takes literally, what..one second?

A cup, sure. But 10? Plus 10 plates, and 30 pieces of flat ware?


Short answer - yes.

Apply the logic. The dishes are on the table. I open the dishwasher & slide the rack out - once. That's the one second.

The plates are on the table. Carry towards counter. Scrape leftovers into trash. That applies to both. No time difference. In your case, you put the plate in the sink (or stack on the counter, prior to filling sink with washwater?). In mine, I place it in the dishwasher rack. There is no time difference between putting it in a sink or in a rack. Repeat 9 more times.

Cups - virtually the same. Slide the lower rack in now that it's full of plates, slide the upper one out. What..2 seconds? Pick the cups off the table, put them in the machine instead of the sink.

I know my machine/serviceware well enough to know coffee cups tend to go in one place, beverage cups in another, wine glasses in another, etc. There's no more thinking about it than is spent to stack the things carefully in the sink or on the counter so that you don't break them.

The flatware is placed vertically in the flatware baskets. I mix them any old way & the machine still gets them clean. The tall items (spatulas, etc) go in the front basket so they don't hit the spray arm.

Once the machine is full, I can start it and go back to spending time with guests.

If you are handwashing, you spend extra moments to place the now-washed items in a dishrack or on a towel to drip dry. I spend zero time on that. They're already racked in the machine. Then you dry them by hand with a towel. More time (unless you choose to let them sit and air-dry). I let mine self-dry (open door to off-steam them quickly and/or just let them sit to air dry).

I don't use the dishwasher for everything. Big pots and the good knives are still going to be washed by hand. If it's just me at home, I'm more likely to hand-wash, just because it takes so many days to fill the machine.

There are plenty of reasons why one might prefer handwashing, but losing time by using the machine just isn't one of valid points. IMHO.

Laura

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Author: llamalluv Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869429 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/10/2012 1:51 PM
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I'm just saying that I didn't experience any time savings when I was visiting with people who had dishwashers. Maybe they just have terrible dishwashers that take longer than yours to cycle? I just know that we could not hold a conversation or watch a movie while theirs was running, so it was a lot of sitting around yelling, "What?! Say that again?!" every night after dinner until the stupid thing was done, except for on Thanksgiving Day, when I had all the dishes done (washed, dried, put away) before she even had dessert ready. (They always wait about half an hour to an hour eat dessert.)

And I know that my friend has fancier dishes and flatware for holidays, and the hard anodized cookware, that must be washed by hand, even if we are putting the other stuff in the dishwasher.

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Author: karenlj Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869430 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/10/2012 1:52 PM
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There are quiet dishwashers. And ones with timers that can be set to wash after you've gone to bed.

Karen

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Author: 2gifts Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869441 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/10/2012 4:02 PM
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I'm just saying that I didn't experience any time savings when I was visiting with people who had dishwashers. Maybe they just have terrible dishwashers that take longer than yours to cycle? I just know that we could not hold a conversation or watch a movie while theirs was running, so it was a lot of sitting around yelling, "What?! Say that again?!" every night after dinner until the stupid thing was done, except for on Thanksgiving Day, when I had all the dishes done (washed, dried, put away) before she even had dessert ready. (They always wait about half an hour to an hour eat dessert.)

OK, I see the problem. It's wasn't that the dishwasher took a long time to run. It was that it was so loud that you couldn't talk while it was running, so any time it took was painful to those in the vicinity.

I have a very quiet dishwasher, so that is not a problem, and so I don't care how long it takes for a cycle to run. I care that I can use the time it would take me to wash the dishes, which is clearly longer than the time it takes me to load and unload the dishes from the dishwasher, to visit with my company and enjoy the holiday instead of feeling like the maid.

When you run across a dishwasher that is actually quiet, you'll see what we mean about it adding to the enjoyment of the day instead of detracting.

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Author: LQu Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869448 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/10/2012 5:13 PM
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And the workaround for a non-quiet one is to just run it later in the day.

Laura

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 869886 of 886579
Subject: Re: So, it's been 4 months... Date: 12/26/2012 9:33 PM
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What a joy it is to hear from you again. And, what a joy it is to hear that you are relatively happy and secure.

I moved my mother up to SC from FL in 1997, due to her maladies. It turned out that the only thing wrong with her was Parkinson's. She did not have the type that makes her shake. Rather, hers was a quiet disease, and progressed slowly.

I wish you and your mother the happiest of days. You made the right decision.

Donna

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