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Author: PoodleLover Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 22011  
Subject: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/2/2004 9:48 PM
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This thread is to broad to be covered by a poll... So, tell us what cams (digital, 35 or...) you own, which you primarly use, why and anything else you'd like to add...

I'll begin...
Nikon - 35mm - P&S - has been shelved for over a year now. Doubt if I'll ever use this one again. I can't even find it for a model number now... This cam is about 10YO.

Sony - digital - DSC-S85+ - this is now my primary cam. Processing fees of 35mm are the main reason I got this cam. 4.1MP advanced P&S that has many advanced features.

I really enjoy shooting, as a hobby, and what was killing me was the $7-8 for each roll I had developed. Then, either you find that some PICs didn't turn out like you thought... or you say "did I take that shot?" and "what was it?". So, with digital, I can see what I shot in rather short order. Laptop in hand that is...

Seymore...
<<www.OwnerofanS85andstillluvin'it!.pl>>





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Author: JeanDavid Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3679 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/2/2004 10:28 PM
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This thread is to[o] broad to be covered by a poll... So, tell us what cams (digital, 35 or...) you own, which you primarly use, why and anything else you'd like to add...

My primary camera is a Wisner Technical Field Camera: 4"x5" size.

http://www.wisner.com/Page3.html

I mainly use the Wisner Convertible Plasmat lens set with it.

http://www.wisner.com/Page14.html
http://www.wisner.com/Page15.html

I also have a Nikon M 300mm f/9 lens, A Schneider SuperAngulon 90mm f/8, and a Meyer-Gorlitz Aristostigmat 120mm f/6.3 that I use less often.

I use 4"x5" sheet film in it mostly, but I can shoot 120 or 220 size roll film (almost never) or Polaroid sheet film (rarely).


My next most used camera is a Nikon FE-2, for which I have several lenses. The two I use most are the 105mm f/2.5 and the 55mm f/2.8 macro. I also have a 28mm f/2 and a 50mm f/2 that I sometimes use.

My smallest camera is an Olympus XA. A used one now seems to sell for about double what I originally paid for a new one. It is really handy for shirt-pocket storage, has a rangefinder, adjustable aperture, automatic exposure that works surprisingly well considering how primiteve it is.

I really enjoy shooting, as a hobby, and what was killing me was the $7-8 for each roll I had developed. Then, either you find that some PICs didn't turn out like you thought... or you say "did I take that shot?" and "what was it?". So, with digital, I can see what I shot in rather short order. Laptop in hand that is...

I used to shoot more than I do now, but it is because my time is devoted to other things at the moment. Processing is rather cheaper for me as I use mostly black&white materials that I process myself. I can do color as well, but do not do enough, so the chemistry tends to go bad before it is really used up. Not a saving when that happens.

Mostly my pictures turn out as I expect. But I spend a lot of time up front to ensure that. My biggest problems are not technical, but artistic. A perfectly focused, perfectly exposed, perfectly developped negative of a stupid subject tends to bore me no matter how technically fine it may be.

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Author: grapegeek Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3680 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/2/2004 10:37 PM
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I am a sort of a camera collector, so I have a bunch of them...

- Canon Powershot S30 for most of my snapshots
- Canon A-1 for my B/W work
- Pentax ME Super
- Canon Canonet QL-17 GIII for Street stuff
- Ricoh Ricoflex Diacord for dabbling in MF

Plus about 25 other cameras that need to go up on eBay that I don't use...

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Author: averagjoe Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3681 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/2/2004 11:25 PM
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I had many cameras over the years. I had a 6-lens system built around a Nikon F3HP, yet I preferred to use another SLR, a Konica FT-1, with an assortment of wide angle lenses. I'd also owned a Burke&James 4X5, with which I once went in search of Ansel Adams' tripod marks at Point Lobos, but my results fell far short of his. My all-time favorite was a Voigtlander Bessa-II, a folding camera that gave me the option to shoot 4.5X6 or 6X9 cm images on 120 film. I recently sold it on e-Bay to a collector in Japan. I sold the Nikon about 12 years ago. The Konica FT-1 remains my only film camera, with a 35-135 and a 17mm Hexanon-AR lens, all parked in a well-padded camera case. Similarly unused is my darkroom, furnished with an excellent Simmon-Omega D-2V enlarger and an assortment of Nikkor and Schneider lenses. After thirty-some years of lugging a camera bag everywhere I went, the creating urge passed and I no longer go in search of subjects. If one presents itself, I whip out my Fuji 2600Z digital, point and shoot. At times I find myself wishing it had manual controls, a hot shoe for a more powerful flash and a wide angle lens, but if those were available I'd find myself looking at the world through a viewfinder again, rather than enjoying it "live".

~aj

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Author: HippeauFlip Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3684 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/3/2004 2:09 AM
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Canon S45 digicam is my primary camera. Wow, it does a beautiful job.

My Minolta freedom zoom 125 goes on all deployments with me. It's no biggie if it gets dirty or stolen (although, for what I paid for it two years ago, I could now get an OK quality digicam for deployments.)

The Minolta Maxxum HTsi plus is what sits unused on the shelf where my much used, much loved manual Ricoh used to sit.
Man do I regret giving that to my nephew. I wonder if he'll trade me? Now that digital is so widespread, I can't even get a half decent price for it on ebay.
Of course, I so rarely do the photography thing anymore. I mostly take snapshots and such now. **SIGH**



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Author: Azotic Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3685 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/3/2004 2:33 AM
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I have a few film cameras and a few digital cameras, and I use them all. Why do you ask? :)

-- Mark


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Author: dbsf Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3688 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/3/2004 4:36 AM
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Well, my first camera was a Nikkormat in 1973, followed by a Burke & James Orbit (4x5) which I still have.
In the studio I used to use Sinar P 4x5 and 8x10 with 90/120/Angulons 210 & 300 Apochromats and 360/410 Anastigmats, along with Polaroid 8x10.
Now I use my Hassleblad with the Phase LightPhase digital back and a Canon A-40 for everything else.
Oh yeah, almost forgot my old favorite: the Polaroid Spectra.


David/sf

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Author: JeanDavid Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3690 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/3/2004 8:39 AM
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Well, my first camera was a Nikkormat in 1973, followed by a Burke & James Orbit (4x5) which I still have.

Coincidence. My first camera was a Nikkormat FTn in late 1973 or early 1974, followed in less than a year by a Calumet CC-400. I am not sure if the B&J Orbit is the one they made just like it or not. I still own them both, but I made an extended loan of the Nikkormat to a friend who has since loaned it to someone else. So I do not expect to see it again, but since I use mostly 4x5 anyway, at least I will not need to see about finding batteries for its light meter.

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Author: Amphian Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3693 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/3/2004 2:57 PM
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I have a Nikon Coolpix 880, because I do a lot of macro stuff and Nikons have the best macros. I also like it because it has both manual controls (aperture and shutter priority, exposure, etc.) and quick "scene modes", so I can both tweak a shot to get exactly what I want and grab a quick shot in a hurry with decent results. In addition, it seems to be a particularly good size for my hands. I can easily grip it securely, operate most of the controls, and shoot one handed.

I also have a l'Espion, but it takes the kind of photos you would guess because of it's size - http://www.amphian.com/lespion.jpg

Amphian

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Author: taichiplayer Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3695 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/3/2004 5:49 PM
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Still shooting with a Nikormat FTN I picked up in 1973, and a Nikon FM. Have an assortment of Nikor lenses, from 24MM to 105MM.Have a couple of Bronica 2 1/4" bodies and lenses which I haven't used since I stopped shooting professionally.

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Author: PucksFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3696 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/3/2004 8:10 PM
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Mostly: Nikon 8008 - usually zoom lenses

Studiously: Nikon FM2n - macros - when I want to think through everything - when the electronics go goofy

Experimentally: Canon A40 - learning about digital

PF

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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3706 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/4/2004 4:08 PM
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I have two main camera systems I use; for most of my landscape work, I generally use a Tachihara 4x5 with Rodenstock lenses (90mm and 210mm). I'd like to get something really wide, like a 65mm, but I find that with the controls, it's not as needed as a super wide with 35mm.

My other system, which I use for casual shooting as well as all of the magazine work I do is Nikon FM and FM2s. For magazine use, which is usually stage performances, I use a 80-200 f/2.8ED. For my personal shooting, I tend toward the wide end, with 20mm being my favorite.

The lack of good wide angle availability is a major drawback to digital IMO.

BTW, one nice thing about my cameras; I never have to worry about batteries, other than for the meter and motor drive; but I can take pics without either of those.

David

ps. After reading this thread, I have to wonder: Is there anyone shooting large format that doesn't have 'David' in his name? Is there anyone named David that is not shooting LF? ;-)



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Author: dmcostello Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3708 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/4/2004 4:25 PM
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ps. After reading this thread, I have to wonder: Is there anyone shooting large format that doesn't have 'David' in his name? Is there anyone named David that is not shooting LF? ;-)

I would be that David!

I shoot with a Canon G2 most of the time.

I also have a Canon Rebel S for my film camera. I don't use it much anymore, but lately it has been calling me. Several months ago I took a trip to Disney and I used one of those disposable waterproof cameras. With the limits of film, I found myself slowing down, being more careful about what I shot. It turned out that I had a much larger percentage of keepers on that roll that I would have when shooting digital. It made me miss film.

As an aside, the waterproof camera was very fun, I have shots of my daughter underwater, sliding down the waterslide on a tube, and going under a waterfall.

I really want a digital SLR. I'm strongly considering the digital Rebel. But that is in the future sometime.

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Author: PoodleLover Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3711 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/4/2004 4:56 PM
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Why do you ask? :)
~~~
Just gettin' a feel for what people, on TMF, are shooting with these days... I'll ask again in a year or two.

Seymore...
<<www.thinkingthisisbetterthanapoll.pl>>







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Author: grue22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3716 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 4:00 AM
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I've got a couple of 35mm film cameras sitting on the shelf here, and several more in a box back in the US. I might pull out one of the Minoltas if I want to play with my 500 mm lens, and I might put the Olympus Stylus in my pocket, but I see little reason to hassle with film again.

I've got an Olympus C-4040Z that goes in a jacket pocket or my wife's purse for most of our travel shots and an E-20P that I use when I want something more serious. It's a wonderful camera, but it's much too heavy to haul when we're going to be out walking around all day.

Grue

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Author: grue22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3717 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 4:23 AM
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I also have a Canon Rebel S for my film camera. I don't use it much anymore, but lately it has been calling me. Several months ago I took a trip to Disney and I used one of those disposable waterproof cameras. With the limits of film, I found myself slowing down, being more careful about what I shot. It turned out that I had a much larger percentage of keepers on that roll that I would have when shooting digital. It made me miss film.


I don't worry much about the percentage of keepers any more, since the cost per image is so low. I probably take about five times as many pictures as I did when shooting film.

Most of my pictures lately have been taken in cities that we've been visiting on our travels. Often the visit is a once-in-a-lifetime event for us, so I want to make sure that I get the pictures of the scenes that I want to remember. I've developed a technique that seems to work pretty well:

As soon as I see something that I want a picture of, I pull out the camera and take a photo relatively quickly. I pay attention to composition and framing, but the primary purpose of this photo is to capture the scene for reminding us of the trip. I've had too many tour buses show up and fill the lovely plaza with tourists. Now, I make sure that I've got the scene captured before it goes away.

Then, if I think it's warranted, I work on getting a higher quality picture, playing with angles, aperture, etc. I feel free to experiment in ways that I never would have tried when shooting with film.

I almost always wind up with at least one or two useable pictures of every scene using this technique. The impact of a spoiled picture is much less these days. I've had several trips in the past when the only picture that I took of a location with my film camera didn't turn out. Once the opportunity is lost, it's lost forever.

Grue

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Author: UncleLee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3719 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 9:21 AM
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The lack of good wide angle availability is a major drawback to digital IMO.

~~~~~~~

Too true, David. John Shaw's answer to my similar comment was something like, "Just back up a little more."



UncleLee





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Author: TMFTwitty Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3722 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 10:00 AM
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HP 935
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/hp935/page14.asp

Richard

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Author: UncleLee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3723 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 10:14 AM
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So, tell us what cams (digital, 35 or...) you own, which you primarly use...

~~~~~~~~~

I bought my first Nikon in 1980, an FM that I still own today. My favorite lens for the FM has always been the Nikkor 24mm f2.5.

Over the years, my old Domke camera bag has carried an FE2 and F3 and an odd assortment of lenses - two of my favorites being the 55mm f2.5 micro and the 105mm f2.5.

This past year I acquired a D100 and, thanks to Moose Peterson, the learning curve, while still steep, has a few places to grasp along the way.

Being a hobbyist, and one with a very limited accessory budget, I haven't yet afforded myself more than one AF lens for the D100. I've started with a Nikkor 60mm Micro lens to which is affixed either an 81A warming filter or a polarizer (Note: 62mm filters are very pricy). The 1.5x image multiplication factor of the D100 makes the 60mm lens a 90mm lens so my next lens for this camera will be Nikkor's 20mm f2.8 D-AF. The zoomies are nice, but out of my league price-wise. Besides, I've always used primes and it's hard for this old dog to learn new tricks.

I tend to grab DW's Sony P-51 2MP pocketcam for snapshots, explaining how otherwise I'd need to get out the old Lietz Tiltall. Recently I acquired a used (free) Sony FD-75 that resides permanently in my truck for those often-missed opportunities while driving to-from work at or near sunrise and sunset.


UncleLee



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Author: grue22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3725 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 11:11 AM
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The lack of good wide angle availability is a major drawback to digital IMO.

~~~~~~~

Too true, David. John Shaw's answer to my similar comment was something like, "Just back up a little more."



Yup. When I was living in the desert & shooting wildlife, I kept wanting a longer telephoto. Now that I'm shooting in cities, I keep running out of room to back up.

Grue

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Author: Gimmeaminute Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3727 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 11:24 AM
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Let's see, many years ago it all started with a 110, then moved to a 35 MM but then something wonderful happened to me. I won a digital camera! An Olympus D-340R http://www.dpchallenge.com/camera.php?CAMERA_ID=102 for FREE! Digital opened me to the world of photography once again, I've always enjoyed taking pictures but couldn't afford the expense of development anymore and the bad shots, OUCH!

I had my first digital for over 5 years before it got dropped one time to many by my lovely children and would no longer be coaxed into working. So I went looking for another digital, this time a Olympus D-380 http://www.dpchallenge.com/camera.php?CAMERA_ID=399

Then I had a chance to pick up an Olympus C-211 http://www.dpchallenge.com/camera.php?CAMERA_ID=613 for next to nothing so I grabbed on to that. I gave the D-380 to Melissa so she could start her photography career.

Now on it's way to me is a FujiFilm FinePix 3800 http://www.dpchallenge.com/camera.php?CAMERA_ID=469 http://iwonshopping.dealtime.com/xCP-Fuji_Finepix_3800_Digital_Camera~PD-20255090~FD-7185~kworg-FujiFilm%20FinePix%203800~kw-FUJIFILM_FINEPIX_3800~linkin_id-3005821~DMT-1~VK- at no charge and I'm totally excited.

I love digital since you can't really take a bad picture, if you do JUST DELETE IT! :) And yes, you deal with noise but there are programs to help clean that up but since going to digital I've taken some of the best shots of my life and I could never go back to the cost and expense of film at this point.

Deannda
http://community.webshots.com/user/tdmeneuf1 (all taken with one of the digital cameras mentioned above except the Fiji, don't have that one yet)

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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3730 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 12:32 PM
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With the limits of film, I found myself slowing down, being more careful about what I shot. It turned out that I had a much larger percentage of keepers on that roll that I would have when shooting digital. It made me miss film.

I have to wonder if this is not a typical issue with digital shooters. I hear many digicam owners talking about the number of photos they've taken (probably made easy due to a counter in the camera), but I always have to wonder if they are really gaining that much.

I once heard a large format photographer say "I used to go out with my Nikon and shoot a bunch of film, and get two or three good shots. Now I just shoot those two or three." I've found similar results myself; a full day of shooting with the 4x5 may yield 3 or 4 images (5 is my record), but almost all of them are good enough to sell. When I was shooting only 35mm, a good day would result in about 3-4 images good enough to sell, except that they might not be quite as good as the 4x5, because I spend more time with the LF camera making it perfect, rather than 'good enough'.

If someone is shooting tons of photos (digital or film), I have to wonder if they are really taking the time to make a good picture, or if they are just hoping to get lucky through sheer volume.

David

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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3731 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 12:37 PM
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Too true, David. John Shaw's answer to my similar comment was something like, "Just back up a little more."

Who's this John Shaw? Is he really an idiot, or does he just play one on TV?

David

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Author: Gimmeaminute Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3732 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 12:38 PM
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If someone is shooting tons of photos (digital or film), I have to wonder if they are really taking the time to make a good picture, or if they are just hoping to get lucky through sheer volume.



Yes, I am, and I try to make sure what the conditions were on that shot that did come out. I currently belong and participate at www.dpchallenge.com and have learned so much but still have so much to learn. I will take over 100 shots for one subject for a challenge, setting it up several times trying to get the shot I want. It's worth it to me since it's first of all digital so I can just delete the bad shots and two, I see something from each shot, I learn something, something I could not do with film since I would have to wait for the development and such expense involved.

Once I get more comfortable with all the settings on my cameras, the lighting situations and such then I can get down to the 4-5 shots instead of the 100 needed to learn.

Deannda
Not a professional

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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3733 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 12:44 PM
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Once I get more comfortable with all the settings on my cameras, the lighting situations and such then I can get down to the 4-5 shots instead of the 100 needed to learn.

That's good. I may have come across a little harsh; it's not a bad thing to take extra pictures. Where it becomes bad is when the numbers become a crutch for not thinking about it.

Taking a lot of pictures for purposes of learning is excellent. In fact, if you do this, you'll learn a lot more than the beginners who obsess over the cost of a roll of film. There is no substitute for experience.*

David

*I've been asked about getting good at printing in the darkroom. I've told people "Your first 1000 prints don't count". The people who cringe at the cost of a 25 sheet pack of paper don't like it, but it took at least that many before I was actually good enough that people would ask for advice.

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Author: dmcostello Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3734 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 1:00 PM
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I have to wonder if this is not a typical issue with digital shooters. I hear many digicam owners talking about the number of photos they've taken (probably made easy due to a counter in the camera), but I always have to wonder if they are really gaining that much.

I think they can gain something during the learning process. My problem with film was cost, I was younger and I couldn't afford to learn from my mistakes. I had a strong desire to take photos that I could be proud of, but film and development costs just made it unattainable. Add in the costs of snapshots and it just would have busted my feeble budget. I had the desire but not the money to make it happen.

There were a lot of things that attracted me to digital. I thought I would the technical side of things, bringing them into the computer and playing with them. I was very attracted to the ability to shoot unlimited shots, mainly because I had kids and it really was expensive to record thier life on film. Digital allowed me to take as many pictures of them as I wanted. For the casual shots like that, digital really has it all over film.

But as I started shooting digital, those old desires of taking shots I would be proud of were rekindled. I started reading my old photo books again, I started experimenting. I was able to read about the technique of panning to capture motion and then immeditaly try it out. When I failed, I was able to immediatly figure out what I did wrong instead of waiting to get the pictures back.

I've come to realize lately though, that digital can make you sloppy. You can machine gun a dozen shots of something to try to get it right instead of spending time beforehand thinking about what you want and getting it right the first time. When I have shot film recently, it had slowed me down and made me think about what I wanted from the shot. The film was precious.

Digital hadn't gotten worse, but I could see the bad habits I was developing. I wouldn't have been able to learn nearly as much without it. But with the power comes some dangers. I think I may impose a rule where I shoot a roll of film a month, just to remind myself why I am using a camera.

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Author: JeanDavid Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3735 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 1:02 PM
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*I've been asked about getting good at printing in the darkroom. I've told people "Your first 1000 prints don't count". The people who cringe at the cost of a 25 sheet pack of paper don't like it, but it took at least that many before I was actually good enough that people would ask for advice.

Peter Henry Emerson, assuming a beginning photographer would work all day every day at it, said to destroy all the plates you made (he worked in the late 19th and early 20th century) in the first year.

There is a royal road to intellectual learning: read a lot and think a lot about what you have read. But for practical learning, I know no substitute for practice.

People started asking me for advice about the time I got a 105mm f/2.5 lens for my 35mm camera and started making 11"x14" prints (less than a year after I got my first film camera). Not because I was so great (some people still do not think my work is especially great) but because they had never seen tightly cropped images and images that large. People are so used to the image quality they get on misadjusted cheap television sets (and now computer monitors) that anything better than that is expert.

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Author: Amphian Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3743 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 4:55 PM
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As soon as I see something that I want a picture of, I pull out the camera and take a photo relatively quickly.

This is what I do as well. I call it my "safety shot". It lets me spend time tweaking things without worrying that the butterfly will fly away or a car will pull into the scene, leaving me with nothing.

a full day of shooting with the 4x5 may yield 3 or 4 images (5 is my record), but almost all of them are good enough to sell. When I was shooting only 35mm, a good day would result in about 3-4 images good enough to sell,

I never shot an image good enough to sell until I got a digital. I couldn't afford to shoot the same subject repeatedly to learn what I needed to learn.

If someone is shooting tons of photos (digital or film), I have to wonder if they are really taking the time to make a good picture, or if they are just hoping to get lucky through sheer volume.

In my case (about 8000 photos in three years), it depends on the situation. I've shot one photo for DPChallenge (where I used to be a member) over 100 times tweaking everything to get it just so. I also shoot extras because I am shooting a lot of handheld macros outdoors. I take a couple of extra shots in case I didn't get the focus right (hard to see on a small LCD).

Once I get more comfortable with all the settings on my cameras, the lighting situations and such then I can get down to the 4-5 shots instead of the 100 needed to learn.

I found that the strict rules on editing at DPC never let me get a shot in less than a dozen tries. :-)

Amphian




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Author: UncleLee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3746 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 5:25 PM
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Who's this John Shaw?

~~~~~~~~

He's just some opinionated knucklehead from Colorado. <G>



UncleLee

P.S. Sorry, John, I really meant it. Sort of. Well, you know.







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Author: Gimmeaminute Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3747 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 6:05 PM
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I found that the strict rules on editing at DPC never let me get a shot in less than a dozen tries. :-)

Amphian


When was the last time you checked in? I ask because for the month of December they loosened the rules of editing for members (layers and spot editing were allowed along with other methods) and are currently running a poll to see if they should continue with this. I have a couple of hot spots on the C-211 and it was heavenly to be able to spot edit them out where I couldn't before.

Deannda
But I still take way more shots than I need to trying to get JUST the right one, :)

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Author: Amphian Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3748 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 6:57 PM
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When was the last time you checked in?

I don't mind the strict editing rules, and that wasn't why I left.

What happened was I went to the UK for a month last autumn (and met Kavey, if she's still there). I came back and spent the next month doing other things and processing the photos I took. Then I went to login to DPC and was met with nine screenfuls of Terms of Service that I had to agree to before I could even get to my account.

Since I sell photos, I have to read through the Terms of Service and have a lawyer look at it to see what rights I am signing away. (There were a couple of things I caught in a skim that make me a bit nervous.) I've just never gotten around to it. I probably should just email Drew and have him delete my account, since I can't access it until I sign away my rights. :-(

Amphian


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Author: PucksFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3749 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 6:57 PM
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Who's this John Shaw? Is he really an idiot, or does he just play one on TV?


http://www.google.com/search?q=john+shaw+photography&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

PF

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Author: Gimmeaminute Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3750 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 7:28 PM
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Then I went to login to DPC and was met with nine screenfuls of Terms of Service that I had to agree to before I could even get to my account.


Whoa, I didn't encounter that when I signed up for membership. But then again they have been having trouble with a lot of DQ's lately so I don't know what it's like the last couple of months.

Deannda
From what I've seen you maintain all rights and such to your shots

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Author: Amphian Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3751 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/5/2004 10:56 PM
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Whoa, I didn't encounter that when I signed up for membership.

I just went to login and I get six screenfuls, but I have a higher resolution monitor now. It looks like they changed everything again in March, so I have to read it all again, but, I know one of the problem clauses is this one:

"6.2 You hereby grant DPChallenge.com a nonexclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any rights you have in the Member Information and Media, and otherwise to make use of the Member Information and Media (including publishing, disseminating, broadcasting, manipulating, reproducing, editing, translating, performing, modifying, or displaying any part of the Member Information) and/or Media alone or as part of other work in any form, media, or technology whether now new known or hereafter developed, to enable DPChallenge.com to continue the specific operation or marketing of the site."

From what I can tell, there were a lot of people who left over this clause. The combination of "worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable" and "as part of other work in any form, media, or technology whether now new known or hereafter developed" caused some people to consult attorneys. The advice they received is that they were giving DPC the right to publish their work in any form for profit and without any ability to revoke that right. Drew and Langdon are nice guys, but I'm not giving anyone rights to do that.

Amphian




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Author: grue22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3752 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/6/2004 2:43 AM
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In my case (about 8000 photos in three years), it depends on the situation. I've shot one photo for DPChallenge (where I used to be a member) over 100 times tweaking everything to get it just so.


I enjoyed the challenges at DPChallenge, but I found that I didn't have the time to devote to it to remain competitive. I only had two shots that I thought were good enough to submit, and each of them took most of a day to get right. I was very happy that I managed to place 11th with one of them, though.

Grue

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Author: Amphian Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3753 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/6/2004 3:39 AM
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I was very happy that I managed to place 11th with one of them, though.

Which challenge - or what is your username there? Mine is the same as here.

Amphian


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Author: grue22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3754 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/6/2004 4:27 AM
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Which challenge - or what is your username there? Mine is the same as here.


I sent you the information by email.

Grue
... professional paranoid

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Author: davekone Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3755 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/6/2004 7:13 AM
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Nikon Coolpix 800 - grab and go, shot with this camera many years before the somewhat affordable Canon 10d Digital SLR became available.

Canon 10d - Digital SLR
Canon f2.8 70-200mm L IS USM Lens
Tamron f3.5-4.5 19-35mm Wide angle Lens
Canon 50mm f1.8
Canon 1.4x Teleconverter
Canon 420ex Flash

You can see some of my fun/work at www.pbase.com/davekone

Dave Kone


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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3756 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/6/2004 9:51 AM
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http://www.google.com/search?q=john+shaw+photography&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Well, he has some nice stuff. I suspect he must have been joking about the "backing up" bit; although I've run across plenty of people who do share that feeling.

Of course, these are the same type of people who think that cropping a 35mm neg makes it a panorama.

David

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Author: Amphian Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3757 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/6/2004 4:57 PM
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You can see some of my fun/work at www.pbase.com/davekone

I love the mallard one. Good catch.

Amphian

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Author: quasie Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3758 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/6/2004 7:10 PM
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The lack of good wide angle availability is a major drawback to digital IMO.

My digital has a 18MM to 55MM. How much wider does it go?

I've been in Carmel for the past weekend and saw some terrific photo galleries....so David(s) you are still doing GOOD and getting the VERY best with the film based cam's I think. I can't remember exactly the types but the film (beside the photographer of course) seemed to be the thing that made these photo so very good.

Here's a link to one of galleries pics. They did amazing things with these photo's. Some were even on canvas. These were some type of fujifilm I think.
http://www.scanlan.com/gallery_thumbs.asp?cat_id=9

-Q

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Author: quasie Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3759 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/6/2004 7:25 PM
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If someone is shooting tons of photos (digital or film), I have to wonder if they are really taking the time to make a good picture, or if they are just hoping to get lucky through sheer volume.

David


David, sometimes we have limits too. I'm always running out of storage because I shoot in RAW. I used up all my storage the first day at Carmel on the "17 Mile drive" within two hours. Now I would say if nothing good comes out of that then I should give up photography since it's really hard to take a bad pic on that drive. (now what have I got myself into:)

Anyway, since I could view, zoom in close and get over-exposure readings, I was able to delete half of them and use for a wonderful sunset on the beach at Carmel By the Sea without fear that I had deleted some good ones. So overall the experience was good because of the limitations on storage. When we are forced to work with the limitations, it makes us think more about what we are doing. I learned tons about my camera from that experience.

Now if my task-master(person who helps me) will just like one of my pics, I'll be happy *S*

-Q







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Author: davekone Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3762 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/7/2004 9:15 AM
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Thanks!.

David

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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3764 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/7/2004 11:00 AM
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My digital has a 18MM to 55MM. How much wider does it go?

18mm on your digital gives a field of view equal to what on a 35mm? Most of the digicams I've seen advertised as going "wide angle" (enough to make a big deal out of it) barely get the coverage of a 28mm on 35.

As it is, there are times where my 20mm is not wide enough, but it's not often enough to fork out $1000+ for an 18mm or even more for the 15mm.


David


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Author: quasie Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3766 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/7/2004 2:38 PM
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18mm on your digital gives a field of view equal to what on a 35mm? Most of the digicams I've seen advertised as going "wide angle" (enough to make a big deal out of it) barely get the coverage of a 28mm on 35.

David, that's what I was trying to ask but after a long day on the road I guess it came out more like a statement?

Anway, after doing a little research the equiv. of 28mm seems to be the minimum in digitals for wide angle. And that lens is pretty expensive -online anyway. The price quoted is about $600-$800.

BTW, many online sites are now charging over what you may be able to get locally. I know the circular polarizer lens I just bought was $150 at the very minimum from all on-line sites & searches and I got it for $35 new at a local camera shop.

-Q

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Author: quasie Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3767 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/7/2004 2:40 PM
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I know the circular polarizer lens

Technical difficulties...I meant filter:)

-Q

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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3768 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/7/2004 3:45 PM
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I know the circular polarizer lens I just bought was $150 at the very minimum from all on-line sites & searches and I got it for $35 new at a local camera shop.


Hmmm. $35 sounds awfully cheap for a circular polarizer, at least at the sizes I'm used to using. Are you sure that the one you got is as good as the one from the mail order places?

Also, for me, B&H is my local shop.

David

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Author: quasie Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3769 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/7/2004 3:55 PM
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Hmmm. $35 sounds awfully cheap for a circular polarizer, at least at the sizes I'm used to using. Are you sure that the one you got is as good as the one from the mail order places?

This store sells to the local photography students from Brooks institute so I'm not too worried about quality. It's possible that it's a different size, but I don't think so. Also I got a price for an IR filter for a friend in AU and he said it was a lot lower than what he was finding online. They have an online store but the prices aren't always the same as in the store. With shipping, I believe even their own online store is higher within the same company. Of course non-taxable could help give the online store and advantage if one lived out of state since our tax is nearly 8% here. (forever the accountant:)

http://www.samys.com/cat_digitalPhotography.php

-Q

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Author: snaray Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3773 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 2:29 PM
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This store sells to the local photography students from Brooks institute

Educational pricing maybe? I'm quite familiar with that in computing products (where some products get huge discounts, especially developer tools), but hadn't seen in in photography equipment/supplies before.

  - Sri


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Author: ToesOnTheNose Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3774 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 2:54 PM
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I have:

Mamyia Sekor 35mm(Uncle bought in Vietnam 1960's). I love it and still use it regularly.

Canon EOS 650 35mm. Love it, but recently gave it to my wife.

Canon EOS 1V's. Love 'em. Use 'em constantly.

Mamiya RZ67 Pro II. Great camera.

I also have a batch of lenses, flashes, strobes, stands, tripods, backpacks, bags, film, etc.

No digital yet. I'm waiting for all of you to work out the bugs.

Toes

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Author: ToesOnTheNose Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3775 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 2:56 PM
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Just gettin' a feel for what people, on TMF, are shooting with these days... I'll ask again in a year or two.
++++

What's your prediction???

Toes

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Author: carbonates Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3776 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 4:01 PM
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As a geologist I rely heavily on photographs to record my data, both in macro and micro form.

Digital:
I use a Nikon Coolpix 5000 both in the field and mounted on a microscope. I like the high resolution and the ability to focus closely. It's currently in the shop after being dropped off a table. I have a 3x teleconverter lens that I seldom use because I don't like resetting all the settings each time I use it. I occasionally still use my Sony Mavica, which records on floppies, and this camera is still the one I take into caves simply because it is more durable than the Nikon.

35mm:
I also carry two Nikon F2's around for 35 mm. I only shoot slide film, unless I can't find it, which is sometimes hard these days in out of the way places like Africa and Texas (Last time I went to Walmart they were out of slide film!!).

Medium format:
I use a Mamiya RB67 as my real workhorse. The 6x7 format is ideal for making very high resolution digital images using my Minolta Dimage scanner. This approach beats any digital camera that I can afford, and may even beat the high-end professional digital cameras for resolution. I can photograph mountainsides a few miles away and still see less than meter scale details in the finished image. I frequently build photocollages of miles-long outcrops using this camera.

Polaroid:
One of my favorite little cameras that I often carry with me is a Polaroid i-zone. This little camera makes 1 inch wide prints instantly that I can tape in my field book to record what I am photographing. I used it in Ethiopia as an icebreaker with natives who had never seen a photograph of themselves. I became the family portrait photographer for tribesmen who walked many miles because they had heard about me and my little photographs. I found that once I had given these people a gift of a little photo (which they treasured) I could take all the photos I wanted without objections.

I recently returned from Spain, where I was with a very multinational group. I was the only one who had a non-digital camera with me. I shot almost as much with the F2 as the Coolpix. I was very interested to see that one of my Nigerian collegues took his memory card to a Kodak store and had 3x5 prints made from all of his digital photos! Kodak may have lost the sale of film, but they didn't lose the printing business!

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Author: konasurf2 Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3777 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 5:14 PM
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Agreed on the Canon... I have the S40 with the underwater housing. The camera works great and the housing was a lot of fun on a dive I did in Puerto Rico last year. I purchased my S40 just before the S45 was released and was a bit disappointed but the S40 performs great... maybe I don't know what I am missing in the S45 but the S40 is a lot of camera for the $$.

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Author: ToesOnTheNose Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3778 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 6:41 PM
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Medium format:
I use a Mamiya RB67 as my real workhorse. The 6x7 format is ideal for making very high resolution digital images using my Minolta Dimage scanner. This approach beats any digital camera that I can afford, and may even beat the high-end professional digital cameras for resolution. I can photograph mountainsides a few miles away and still see less than meter scale details in the finished image. I frequently build photocollages of miles-long outcrops using this camera.
++++

Great point. Not many people are willing to listen to this these days. But, what you have described is exactly why I have not yet choosen to move to digital. In order for digital to technically match the quality of film, the camera would have to have 200 megapixels, at a minimum, comparing to 100 ASA film.

That's a large difference. Where are all those differences? Well, to the naked eye, they are normally not very noticable if you have a high-end camera that produces at least 6 megapixels and you are doing 8x10's prints. Or, photographer who really know there stuff can produce larger prints with very little noticability that it's been done digitally.

Where you can tell the difference, and here's the reason most people don't care, is if you blow up a print to gigantic proportions. On a normal 6x7 format camera using a 110mm normal lens, you can blow that sucker up to billboard size and you get very good clarity. If you blow it up larger than that (why would you, who knows?), and compare that to the highest resolution digital image, you will find that the digital will prodcue the crappiest looking print you have ever seen in your life. It will literally look like a blob of color; while the film will hold together and you can make out what you are looking at, although it will be very grainy.

Here's a great article about it: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/filmdig.htm

I do think it is fair and detailed and says things that digital people just simply refuse to listen to, in my experience.

I know it is just nitpicking in many cases. For the average person, digital is a wonderful alternative. In many ways, it has helped the photographic industry.

Also, I have been down this road and will not argue about it. I think digital and film are wonderful mediums. But, digital has just as many pitfalls, it just seems that digital users "overlook" the pitfalls because it is technology.

Toes

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Author: Amphian Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3779 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 6:54 PM
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I do think it is fair and detailed and says things that digital people just simply refuse to listen to, in my experience.

...

Also, I have been down this road and will not argue about it. I think digital and film are wonderful mediums. But, digital has just as many pitfalls, it just seems that digital users "overlook" the pitfalls because it is technology.


Most of the people I know who shoot digital are more than willing to admit its limitations, for example - http://www.amphian.com/shoot/digital.php - I recommend film on my site in certain cases, including large prints.

Now if I could just get people to stop telling me that what I am doing can't possibly be considered "real photography" because it's not film.

Amphian


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Author: ToesOnTheNose Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3780 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 7:03 PM
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Now if I could just get people to stop telling me that what I am doing can't possibly be considered "real photography" because it's not film.
++++

Yeah. I agree! Can't we all just get along?

Toes

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Author: quasie Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3781 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 7:10 PM
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Now if I could just get people to stop telling me that what I am doing can't possibly be considered "real photography" because it's not film.

Amphian


When they say that Amphian, I think they are looking for some kind of "chemical" reaction. *LOL*

It seems at least from the comments of someone I know who is just out of photography school and shoots sports professionally that they now use both. He told me that he uses a Canon 1D (digital) for sports events but uses film for studio shoots. For the professional, I think it comes down to the choice between what produces the best possible result at a cost that makes it worthwhile. In many cases that is still film. The digital is getting better all the time but probably won't eliminate film for a long time and maybe never.

-Q

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Author: snaray Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3782 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 7:40 PM
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What I use:

digital:
Canon S45   though I'm not it's owner :(

35mm film:
Canon Rebel G (bought used last Fall) with either a 28-90EF or 100-300EF lens (both Canon)

Last summer (before getting the Rebel G) I'd also shot a few rolls with my father's Pentax Spotmatic - which is 2 years older than I am :)   He has 35mm, 50mm, and 135mm lenses for it (no zoom lenses), all Asashi/Takamur.

Unfortunately the light meter on it doesn't work and needs to be fixed. On a clear day though I can get decent exposures with it thanks to the trusty old "Sunny 16" rule. That shutter is pretty loud though - other people have commented on it - while standing 3 meters away. It doesn't "click" so much as it "thunks".

I'm not likely to get another camera until version 2.0 of the Digital Rebel comes out so I can get a look at it (and it addresses some of the complaints that have been levelled at the first Digital Rebel). The next camera I buy will definitely be digital.


  - Sri


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Author: quasie Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3783 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 7:59 PM
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I'm not likely to get another camera until version 2.0 of the Digital Rebel comes out so I can get a look at it (and it addresses some of the complaints that have been levelled at the first Digital Rebel). The next camera I buy will definitely be digital.


- Sri


What are some of the complaints on it? Just wondering because I have it but am still on the front end of the learning curve. Most of the problems I've had have been all me. Probably my biggest problem is that is requires a steadier hold than my other one and I tend to be a little shakey:) Anything with a shutter speed below 200 needs to be taken with a remote control for me due to the "lack of lag" and shake (both mine and the cameras).

-Q

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Author: Amphian Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3784 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 8:19 PM
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When they say that Amphian, I think they are looking for some kind of "chemical" reaction. *LOL*

Maybe that's why they are disappointed when my answer is "Whatever." :-)

For the professional, I think it comes down to the choice between what produces the best possible result at a cost that makes it worthwhile.

I think the same is true for most people. If you aren't a fanatic on either side, you simply want what is going to get you the best results with the least work and the least cost. What medium this is depends on your subject, experience level, output type and size, etc., and the answer can be either one, depending on what you are doing.

In many cases that is still film.

My local camera club is 1/3 film, 1/3 digital, and 1/3 both. What I am seeing a lot of is people trying to get the best of both worlds, such as shooting film and having it scanned so it can be manipulated and printed on the computer. What I am seeing in the judges for the monthly salon is a lot of unfounded bias. The last two have expounded on why digital will always be inferior to film and how they can tell, only to pick winning photos in all categories that were digital. :-)

The digital is getting better all the time but probably won't eliminate film for a long time and maybe never.

It will be a long time. Aside from waiting for digital to catch up to film in resolution and other technical issues, you still have a lot of people who have been shooting film for 10+ years. Many of them have spent time honing skills related to film, and they aren't all that eager to chuck them and learn digital skills. (I don't blame them. The learning curve is pretty steep.) In addition, you still have plenty of people interested in learning film, especially black and white, which seems to be making a comeback.

I'm going to disagree on the never, though, partly based on something I read just today - a brief history of astrophotography in Astronomy magazine. It runs through daguerreotypes, wet collodion plates, dry plates, and into black and white and color film before going into CCDs. Each of these overlapped with the method or two before it. Right now we use film and CCDs. Eventually, I think we'll use CCDs and whatever the next generation is. Everything evolves.

Amphian


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Author: snaray Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3786 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 10:55 PM
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> > I'm not likely to get another camera until version 2.0 of the Digital
> > Rebel comes out so I can get a look at it (and it addresses some of
> > the complaints that have been levelled at the first Digital Rebel).


> What are some of the complaints on it?


I haven't followed it recently, but I remember that in the first couple of months of it's release I'd read numerous complaints about the CCD/viewer alignment, and a few other complaints, especially about too much shake and noise from "mirror slap" during the shutter release.

Though these may have been eliminated over the course of the production run, and the magnitude of the problems may have been overblown, as that tends to happen on the internet... (much of the complaints were in the dpreview.com forums).

About the CCD/viewer, I'd read complaints that they weren't centered properly on a not insignificant number of the Digital Rebels (or 300D if you prefer) produced. ie. it's normal that the viewer would display only about 90% (or is it 95%?) of the actual field of view, but that it would be centered on the frame. I'd read that many people were noticing that what the viewer showed was skewed to one side, or even at a slight angle (see caveat above about overblown complaints - this may have been far less common than reported).

A number of people (including reviewers) complained about feature set restrictions intended to keep the Digital Rebel from eating into EOS 10D sales, especially since most of those restrictions are from disabling/limiting the same systems that are available in the 10D. Nothing in that regard jumped out at me as anything I'd really care about though (or more accurately I'm not nearly skilled/knowledgable enough to feel hindered by their absence).


  - Sri


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Author: PoodleLover Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3787 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/8/2004 11:26 PM
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What's your prediction???
~~~
Prediction? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... Reliable/regular 8MP in 18 months. 10+MP in 2.5-3 years... Maybe even sooner?

Seymore...
<<www.justaguessingFool.pl>>







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Author: davekone Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3791 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/9/2004 8:51 AM
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Where you can tell the difference, and here's the reason most people don't care, is if you blow up a print to gigantic proportions. On a normal 6x7 format camera using a 110mm normal lens, you can blow that sucker up to billboard size and you get very good clarity. If you blow it up larger than that (why would you, who knows?), and compare that to the highest resolution digital image, you will find that the digital will prodcue the crappiest looking print you have ever seen in your life. It will literally look like a blob of color; while the film will hold together and you can make out what you are looking at, although it will be very grainy.

Here's a great article about it: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/filmdig.htm


Funny I read the same article over the summer and it was an eye opener. Toes- didn't know your a photography buff, normally catch your posts on other boards!

What people fail to realize when comparing the two is that MOST people buy digital cameras and rarely print pictures over 4x6. Also people fail to realize you are taking a digital format and trying to print an analog output. Digital pictures on my 55” HDTV set will rival any print digital or film of the same size. Some 8x10s and 11x14s if its something special. So given that fact Digital does prevail over film for the masses. Picture quality at the digital consumer camera level with prints of (lets say 8x10 and down) produces excellent results. Others who shoot photography for billboards, scientific research or what have you may have special needs where resolution is a prevailing factor, but us at home and even most pros don't need that resolution to print 8x10s or 11x14s. True the initial investment in the digital camera is more, but you can shoot your brains out without spending a penny more.

Records have more resolution of audio than a CD, but how many people still have the records and record player around? Yea some do, they have their reasons, but there are obvious reasons why most have switched.

Most of this digital versus film depends on your needs, sometimes ego, and what your used to. At a print size of 11x14 and lower I'll take a consumer digital camera over film. For sizes bigger and sheer speed a Digtal SLR. If I need to do wall murals and bill boards I'll take film and scan. If I need to send pictures back from mars I'd take digital too since UPS does not overnight film from other planets. I've only been hobbying around with photography for 12 years, started with a Canon AE1 (great camera!). My uncle has been doing Medium format, and 35mm for 30 years. He is now selling all his Medium format and 35mm stuff since the purchase of his Canon 1d Digital.

Think about how digital will help the environment by not having to make endless rolls of film, and chemicals. I also see a day where prints will be a thing of the past as digital picture frames will become cheaper and allow you to change the picture whenever you want as well as having animated photos (waterfalls, ocean, kids swinging etc.) Also when this happens digital billboards (Big TV screens) can display that 6mp picture with excellent results since the image can be displayed in its native format (digital) instead of an analog print.

In the end its our money, our needs, our opinions that will drive what format we buy.

Wow did I really type all that just now?

David

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Author: IndecisiveFool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3793 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/9/2004 2:51 PM
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Film:

Nikon N60

Digital:

Pentax Optio 550 - 5MP, 5x optical (my Christmas present)
Olympus D490 - a workhorse for me for the last 3 years

IF

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Author: SuaSponteMark Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3805 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/11/2004 10:16 AM
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I bought a Nikon F100 about a year and a half ago, and that will probably be my last film SLR. I still enjoy film over digital, but find that the quality of the new 10 megapixel plus digital SLRs and their falling prices will yield 35mm film somewhat obsolete.

I'm shooting digital on a beaten up, on it's last legs S100 Digital Elph. What a fine little camera; I see why it won design awards and it seems to have inspired a whole niche market of small, sleek digital cameras. I carried it all over the place in my military travels, as it was easy to tote compared to an SLR and it's just now having some image quality problems that have me looking for a replacement. I'm entertaining thoughts about the next Nikon digital SLR as I see them releasing something this year to keep up with Canon's impressive forays. I am leaning that way because of the immediate ability to use all of my lenses in that format.

Mark

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Author: TheDreamer Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3809 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/11/2004 4:47 PM
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While I own more than a dozen cameras....of various formats and types.

The main two cameras that I shoot with are:

Digital - Canon Powershot S20
Film(APS) - Canon ELPH 370Z

I carry the digital camera with me just about everywhere. And, I use the APS camera for situations where I want to have film (I have a CanoScan FS2710 to convert to digital later).

The last time I shot 35mm, I used some refurbished Olympus Stylus...which I bought specifically for the activity. I was shooting 1600ASA film at a rock concert..and wanted a camera that I could live with having confiscated. Ticketmaster said no cameras....but the venue said no cameras with removeable lenses...so I was safe. I also had refurbished Fuji APS camera with 800ASA as backup.

The Dreamer.

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Author: JeanDavid Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3865 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/14/2004 11:48 AM
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Think about how digital will help the environment by not having to make endless rolls of film, and chemicals.

I wonder about that. When wet process film is done commercially, a lot of the chemistry can be used a long time with replenishment and electrolytic removal of silver. I was told Kodak's Kodachrome processing paid for itself because of the value of the silver recovered (almost all of it).

But making CD-R or CD-RW devices also creates environmental damage, and I am told (possibly wrongly) that the manufacture of semiconductors for computers, Flash Chips, etc., is a serious environmental problem (the cleaners and etchants, I suppose), so it is a question which is the more friendly. At least fibre-based paper degrades faster than a CD-ROM disk.

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Author: QuaestorFool One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3889 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/18/2004 2:26 PM
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I use a Fujifilm FinePix 4900 Z. Its a 4 mp and most all the SLR like features. I love the control of the SLR and the economy of a digital.

QF.

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Author: davekone Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3892 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/18/2004 8:42 PM
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But making CD-R or CD-RW devices also creates environmental damage, and I am told (possibly wrongly) that the manufacture of semiconductors for computers, Flash Chips, etc., is a serious environmental problem (the cleaners and etchants, I suppose), so it is a question which is the more friendly. At least fibre-based paper degrades faster than a CD-ROM disk.

True, but one CD or DVD holds a ton of pictures compared to the space and raw materials used if they were all negatives or slides or prints.

Hopefully they will come out with better materials.

David


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Author: averagjoe Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3893 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/18/2004 10:31 PM
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"At least fibre-based paper degrades faster than a CD-ROM disk."

In addition to the paper, though, one must also consider the liquid developers, stop-baths and fixers that we drain into our sewer systems when processing negatives and prints, not to mention toners and bleaches occasionally used to improve prints. Add to that the large amount of water used to rinse your prints and it adds up to quite a bit of resource use and pollution. And that's just on the end-user end, never mind the raw materials that go into the manufacturing process of film and print stock. All in all, digital imaging has to be more environment friendly than film and print.

~aj



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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3900 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/19/2004 5:01 PM
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In addition to the paper, though, one must also consider the liquid developers, stop-baths and fixers that we drain into our sewer systems when processing negatives and prints, not to mention toners and bleaches occasionally used to improve prints.

While this stuff certainly has an effect on the environment, and requires intelligent handling due to its nature to avoid health risks, most photographic chemicals are actually rather benign, especially when compared to household chemicals that most people don't give a second thought to, such as Clorox or Drano. Of the things typically used for black and white photography, the only really bad one is selenium toner. With color neg chemistry, the environmental impact is minimal once they have passed through normal sewage treatment.

As for water usage, that can certainly be a factor, depending on your location. I don't know how much water is used for making CD and DVD blanks; I do know that Intel runs more than a million gallons a day through just one plant (located in the desert, of course). I suspect that, on an overall basis, digital is a little more environmentally friendly, but I don't think it is by a whole lot (and I'm not sure about the inks if you are printing).

David

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Author: averagjoe Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3901 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/19/2004 5:50 PM
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"Of the things typically used for black and white photography, the only really bad one is selenium toner."

And then there is Potassium Ferrocyanide ;-)

~aj

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Author: JeanDavid Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3902 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/19/2004 10:58 PM
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And then there is Potassium Ferrocyanide ;-)

So what if there is? Potassium Ferricyanide after it is used as a bleach.

The iron is tightly bound to the cyanide and is quite difficult to separate. Not really very dangerous, though I do not advise drinking it. The stuff I have from Kodak does not even have a poison label on it.

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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3907 of 22011
Subject: Re: So, what do you shoot with? Date: 1/20/2004 11:49 AM
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And then there is Potassium Ferrocyanide ;-)

If you don't drink it, it's not much of a problem. Cyanide is not dangerous unless liberated from the iron. (of course, there are ways to liberate it, but not generally an issue)

David





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