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Bah.

Well, not the most pleasant of days today. But it certainly was a first.

Today, after almost twenty-five years teaching, this was the first time I actually went down. Literally.

Right after lunch, returning to my classroom, I noticed a huge commotion down the hall. That, combined with some screaming quickly made me realize there was a fight in progress (Clever, ain't I?).

So, Here I come to save the day.

I go running towards the crowd and see two girls on the floor trying to mutilate a third. I rush in and pull the main aggressor off and try to restrain her. Here's where the aforementioned "first" comes in.

Instead of calming herself down, or at the very least trying to get away to continue the fight, the girl starts attacking me. She punching me on the head as I'm trying to maneuver her away. Then (here's the other "first"), I go down--banging my knee on the floor. I made sure I took her down with me though. I continued holding on to this girl which was like trying to restrain a wild animal until finally, security arrives and takes her.

The assistant principal shows up (I knew it was him by the brown pants he had on) without even realizing I was there. He looks down, sees me and says, "Tony, are you okay?"

I said, "Uh, no."

He yells into his walkie-talkie for the nurse to come, stat! (he really didn't say "stat" but it makes for a better story, don't you think?)

Anyway, I make it down to the nurses office where I'm sitting with one icepack on my ear, and another on my knee. The right side of my face is all red, and my ear is swollen. I felt like I just did 3 rounds in the ring (actually, I guess that's pretty much what I did).

The nurse insisted I go home, and I did after the police were called, and I filled out an assault report. I went directly to the doctor who checked me out and told me not to go to work tomorrow and to keep icing my ear and knee.

And these were 7th grade girls!

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2GetMoreIce
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Sounds like you otta be gettin' Combat Pay, & a Purple Heart.


sunray
a man wishing Tony a speedy recovery
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Ouch!!

Gosh, what a miserable day. I'm glad you did step in, even if you got hurt, because that girl on the floor would have been hurt worse if you hadn't intervened.

Stay home tomorrow, put your feet up, and have a nice relaxing drink. Would you like a rum cake? Non-munitions grade?

And, me be thinkin' that a crew o' piratey types need to be explainin' ta some people that we don't like nobody hurtin' our Tony.

We be settin' sail fer Long Island!! All hands on deck!

Cap'n Nefarious Nan of the dark ship Hostile Takeover

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Say, Tony, ya wants that I should send the 6' 8th grader down toos the school toos haves a "chat" with your problem?

Oh wait, she's a wuss, nebbermind.

Deannda
Hope you're okay and happy day anyway, take swim, have a rum and eat some chicken
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a man wishing Tony a speedy recovery


Thanks, sunray, but really, I'm okay. No blood, no stitches, and gratefully, no weapons involved. :-)

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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Gosh, what a miserable day. I'm glad you did step in, even if you got hurt, because that girl on the floor would have been hurt worse if you hadn't intervened.

It's really true, 'Tea. As it was, that girl was pretty bad off. There was a huge clump of hair ripped right out of her, and she was pummeled pretty badly. I hate to think of what else might've happened.

Stay home tomorrow, put your feet up, and have a nice relaxing drink. Would you like a rum cake? Non-munitions grade?

I intend to, and at least I won't even be charged a sick day for it.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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It's really true, 'Tea.

You might want to see a doctor about that concussion, Tony. I wrote that post.

Nancy
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You might want to see a doctor about that concussion, Tony. I wrote that post.


Oh geez, Nancy! Sorry about that! I guess I really am a little out of sorts afterall. For some reason, I read the post and thought Utahtea had posted it.

Thanks for clearing that up, and thanks for the post!

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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Thanks, sunray, but really, I'm okay.



+++
+++


Iffn it hadda bin me, I know my psyche wudda bin damaged.


sunray
a man who don't do combat with wimmin (what ever age!)
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Ouch...and I thought the country girls were rough.....

While it may not help the situation, hopefully this will make you laugh:

http://www.despair.com/adversity.html

:)

RkeFool
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It would be 7th-grade girls.

But... but...

if you have icing on your ear, aren't you afraid that your girlz will lick it off?
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Wow!

I am glad that you are okay - perhaps a bit banged up, but basically okay.

(((((((((((Tony))))))))))))

Cassandra
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And these were 7th grade girls!
===*===

Yeah but you teach in NY, that means she could have out weighed you by a hundred pounds.
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Yeah but you teach in NY, that means she could have out weighed you by a hundred pounds.

Not to mention the claws that are called fingernails.

Nancy
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So, since this is the Isle of Revenge, are we going after this punk or what!!??

ßillƒ
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Sorry to hear about your bad day Tony.


A Hogshead of Rum to help dull the pain?


B-man
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Or should it be 2 hogsheads....



B-man
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A Hogshead of Rum to help dull the pain


It couldn't hoit.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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I went directly to the doctor who checked me out and told me not to go to work tomorrow and to keep icing my ear and knee.

I thought icing was supposed to be on your cake.

Glad you're okay.

Eugene
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It couldn't hoit.
===*===

See if you kin say that the morning after.
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Tony, I am so sorry to hear about your injuries! You are a brave person to get into the middle of a fight like that. I hope that both of those girls are suspended for the rest of the year! and next!

Arg!

Here is a big "GET WELL" coming atcha!

Andrea

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We be settin' sail fer Long Island!! All hands on deck!

Cap'n Nefarious Nan of the dark ship Hostile Takeover




Aye, Cap'n, I be stuffin' me petticoats inta th' streamer trunk this verry minute in prepary fer th'e trip!

Mme. Lafarge
Man, these things are voluminous....
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While it may not help the situation, hopefully this will make you laugh:

http://www.despair.com/adversity.html

:)

RkeFool


Hahahaha - made ole Fifi laugh, it did!

I liked the one on Beauty! LOL

Thanks for posting!

Fifi
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Hahahaha - made ole Fifi laugh, it did!

I liked the one on Beauty! LOL

Thanks for posting!


Glad to hear that I'm not the only one around with a warped sense of humor. I like most of them, but this is my personal favorite:

http://www.despair.com/dysfunction.html

:)

RkeFool
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The nurse insisted I go home, and I did after the police were called, and I filled out an assault report.

Tony:

Sorry to hear that you were injured but glad to hear that you filed a report! Hope that your recovery is complete and just swift enough to get you back to school soon but not too soon!

BTW - Belated Happy Fooliversary.

Christina
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Right after lunch, returning to my classroom, I noticed a huge commotion down the hall. That, combined with some screaming quickly made me realize there was a fight in progress (Clever, ain't I?).

So, Here I come to save the day.


You're going to extremes just to get a day off. Isn't there any easier way?

IF
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You're going to extremes just to get a day off. Isn't there any easier way?

Yeah, but it ain't legal, even with consent :)

We need a few more supermax, umm, schools. Yeah, call 'em schools. Remove the true thugs from the general population, the ones that aren't called criminals only because of their age.

Richard
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You're going to extremes just to get a day off. Isn't there any easier way?

Certainly less painful ways, LOL!


Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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I hope that both of those girls are suspended for the rest of the year! and next!

I'd be interested in hearing what happens. Do you supposed the mother came running down to school, ranting and complaining because a teacher beat up (translation: touched) her darling daughter?

Nancy
very cynical about schools and punishment in today's world.
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I hope that both of those girls are suspended for the rest of the year! and next!
===*===

Oh sure give 'em what they want. They should be made to attend special classes 12/7 for the next two years majoring in stuff like abattoir maintenance (with lab).
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Oh sure give 'em what they want. They should be made to attend special classes 12/7 for the next two years majoring in stuff like abattoir maintenance (with lab).

Picking oakum used to be the tried and true New England punishment.

http://www.rewhc.org/townfarmoakum.shtml

Nancy
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Well, I'm late to the party, but not too late to be indignant. How dare they!!! Middle school, hmph. Nothing good about it. Send them to the Lagoons, I'll teach'm a thing or two...

- Lascivious Leerin' Leopardess O' The Limpid Lagoons In Leyte Gulf
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Remove the true thugs from the general population, the ones that aren't called criminals only because of their age.

You know, I've been giving this a lot of thought. My incident is typical of what goes on in schools all too often. The problem is that because of age (in this case, 13 years old), there's nothing the system can do. The officer even told the principal that there's more she can do in the school than he can.

What needs to be done is to have the laws address this. I'm considering writing to our state senators to request them to consider a law makes it a serious offense when a school employee is assaulted by anyone.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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I'd be interested in hearing what happens. Do you supposed the mother came running down to school, ranting and complaining because a teacher beat up (translation: touched) her darling daughter?

When they finally got hold of the mother of the girl who assaulted me, her comment was, "What the hell was the teacher doing there anyway?"

'nuff said.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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Picking oakum used to be the tried and true New England punishment.


That's pretty amazing. Life was hard then. We're such softies...

Fifi
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When they finally got hold of the mother of the girl who assaulted me, her comment was, "What the hell was the teacher doing there anyway?"

'nuff said.

Tony


Pretty much what I figured she'd say. :(

In addition to punishing the 13 year old, I think that the parents should also be held accountable.

Make Mom pick Oakum!

Fifi

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"What the hell was the teacher doing there anyway?"

Parents like that make me want to scream. What ever happened to being responsible for your offspring? Being responsible for their sense of right and wrong? For being responsible for raising a child who can function in society and not be a burden to it? Oh wait, that's probably how the parents were raised, that society owes them a living, a house and everything else they can get for free and if they can't get it for free, JUST TAKE IT ANYWAY! ARGH!!!!!! This is the type of parent I was dealing with when it came to Melissa's former friend and guess who's starting up again? YEP! Good thing I don't own a gun.......

ON THE PLUS side Tony, I'm sure you got Lee to help you "clean" up that icing on your ear and knee, right? wwnnkwim? :)

Deannda
One who takes responsibility for her children's actions
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When they finally got hold of the mother of the girl who assaulted me, her comment was, "What the hell was the teacher doing there anyway?"

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised.

When I was growing up I stayed out of trouble because I knew that no matter what the school or the system did to me, what my parents did would be worse. (And no, it didn't even involve corporal punishmennt. All they had to do was look at me). And most of my friends felt the same way.

But today's parents blame everyone else for their own mistakes.

Say Tony, I don't know exactly how these things work, but could you get a job in a private school? Would there be a pay difference? Would it be worth it to work in a place where there is real discipline?

Nancy
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But today's parents blame everyone else for their own mistakes.

Rephrase: All too many of today's parents blame everyone else for their own mistakes.

Nancy
has some terrific nieces and nephews.
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Picking oakum used to be the tried and true New England punishment.
===*===

That or workin' in the Jute Mill.
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when a school employee is assaulted by anyone.
===*===

Right, give the perp a fair trial and then hang 'im/'er.
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What ever happened to being responsible for your offspring?
===*===

That went bye-bye during the sexual revolution.
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(And no, it didn't even involve corporal punishmennt. All they had to do was look at me).
===*===

Been there, done that, got the tee shirt from the world tour.
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In addition to punishing the 13 year old, I think that the parents should also be held accountable.

I wouldn't say that.

IF
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I think the definition of a minor and how we treat young offenders needs an examination and update. The intent has long been to keep young miscreants from tarnishing their permanent record with crimes committed while incapable of thinking like an adult, or due to social/economic pressures. For thousands of kids, it saved their bacon when they got their minds right, and there's a benefit to society in not holding them back in later, productive years.

But it does enable a relative few predators to get treated with kid gloves, and skate while doing tremendous harm until the courts classify them as adults. I can certainly empathize with an environment or physiological makeup that encourages or almost guaranties bad behavior, but that doesn't mean we have to let them keep getting away with it.

Richard
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I wouldn't say that.
===*===

See?
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Tony,

You're gutsier than I am. Back in a previous life, I volunteered with a local police reserve unit. Our job every Friday night was security at HS football games and one of our instructors told us never try to break up a catfight (her term) without having at least twice the number of fight "participants" on our side. Luckily, I never had to test her theory.

Bob
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or due to social/economic pressures.
===*===

Y'mean like since I got no stuff and you gots plenty of stuff it's ok for me to break into your house and take your stuff cause you kin easily replace it?
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I wouldn't say that.
===*===

See?


I'm guessing here, obviously, but I assume that he means that some parents do their absolute level best. They set limits, they talk to the kids, they devise punishments as necessary, they provide good homes, stable and loving parents, and the kids still break every law they meet.

But of course, those parents who reject the idea of setting limits, they should be picking oakum.

Nancy
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told us never try to break up a catfight (her term) without having at least twice the number of fight "participants" on our side.
===*===

Or, as the Navy SEALS say: "If it's a fair fight you've set it up wrong." WOOT!
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But of course, those parents who reject the idea of setting limits, they should be picking oakum.
===*===

Yep. There should be no feral kids.
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Or, as the Navy SEALS say: "If it's a fair fight you've set it up wrong." WOOT!



There ya go.

Feef
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See?

See what?

IF
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Say Tony, I don't know exactly how these things work, but could you get a job in a private school? Would there be a pay difference? Would it be worth it to work in a place where there is real discipline?

Nancy, these problems happen even in private schools. But to answer your question, I've got 7 years left, and to leave would sacrifice my pension. And you can't even imagine the pay difference. You'd fall on the floor if you knew.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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Well, went back to the doctor today to get my ear checked as well as my knee which was bothering me. They did an xray and told me that I'm to not return to work for another day so that I can keep the leg elevated and continue to ice it.

Far be it from me to not follow the doctor's orders.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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told me that I'm to not return to work for another day so that I can keep the leg elevated and continue to ice it.

But did they tell you to watch Oprah? That is really important medical advice for anyone sick enough to stay home from work.
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Far be it from me to not follow the doctor's orders.
===*===

And don't let them worker's comp boys catch you on yer rollerblades either. : Þ
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And you can't even imagine the pay difference. You'd fall on the floor if you knew.

One-third of what you get now?

Nancy
guessing.
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I'm guessing here, obviously, but I assume that he means that some parents do their absolute level best. They set limits, they talk to the kids, they devise punishments as necessary, they provide good homes, stable and loving parents, and the kids still break every law they meet.

Yes but I wouldn't just limit it to kids who break every law they meet. For example, kids fighting in school. A parent could be doing the absolute level best as you mentioned above. Instead of a troublemaker (break every law), the parents have what you define as a good kid. If you push a good kid buttons hard enough, you may get them into a fight. Football analogy - the refs often don't catch the instigator. It is the player that reacts to the initial shove/punch that gets caught. Should the parents be held accountable to what likely is a one-time event by a "good" kid?

But of course, those parents who reject the idea of setting limits, they should be picking oakum.

Yes.

IF
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Yes but I wouldn't just limit it to kids who break every law they meet. For example, kids fighting in school. A parent could be doing the absolute level best as you mentioned above. Instead of a troublemaker (break every law), the parents have what you define as a good kid. If you push a good kid buttons hard enough, you may get them into a fight. Football analogy - the refs often don't catch the instigator. It is the player that reacts to the initial shove/punch that gets caught. Should the parents be held accountable to what likely is a one-time event by a "good" kid?

Good point. What was it I've heard about baseball? That the umpires only punish the second brush-back?

Nancy
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Nancy, these problems happen even in private schools. But to answer your question, I've got 7 years left, and to leave would sacrifice my pension. And you can't even imagine the pay difference.

But what about all the money you're getting from TMF?











(I thought that might get you to laugh. :)
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Yes but I wouldn't just limit it to kids who break every law they meet. For example, kids fighting in school. A parent could be doing the absolute level best as you mentioned above. Instead of a troublemaker (break every law), the parents have what you define as a good kid. If you push a good kid buttons hard enough, you may get them into a fight. Football analogy - the refs often don't catch the instigator. It is the player that reacts to the initial shove/punch that gets caught. Should the parents be held accountable to what likely is a one-time event by a "good" kid?

Maybe, maybe not.

When DS#2 was in middle school, he knew that they, and we, both had a no-tolerance stance on fighting. Another kid kept harassing and pushing DS#2 and finally hit DS#2 knocking his glasses off and DS#2 hit him back.

Both kids were sent to the office and suspended for, IIRC, three days.

We had to meet with the principal that day to pick up DS#2 and he asked us if we were going to sue the other kid's parents for the damage done to DS#2's eye glasses...one of the lenses was missing. We asked why we should since DS#2 didn't go to the teacher sooner to stop the kid from harassing him as he should have and we figured he was just as guilty as the first kid....Meaning, we felt it was our responsibility to replace the lens, not the other kid's parents.

The principal almost fell out of his chair.

It was* our responsibility to teach our children what to do in a situation like this and we obviously didn't reinforce this hard enough w/DS#2. So, we took responsibility for this fight.

The principal did remove this "mark" against DS#2 from his school records because he knew he was a good kid caught up in a bad situation. He also knew DS#2's parents cared about their kids and would, hopefully, make sure it never happened again. And, it never did, with him or the other two of our DC.

BTW, the other kid's parents were crying, "Not our child!" the whole time even though the teacher saw him hit DS#2 first.

ßillƒ

*Was = He graduated last year and is 19yo. He's now responsible for his own actions and he knows that.
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Nyah nyah, Tony got beat up by a girl....
...a 13-year-old one at that!

Maybe if you stopped wearing your french maid's outfit to school that wouldn't happen?

Seriously, I'm sorry this happened to you. Aside from the uncomfortable injuries (which sound pretty damn sore - ear & knee, ouch!)... it must have been a real disillusionment to be attacked like that by a kid.

I hope there were some mature witnesses to this incident, just in case that brat tries to turn the tables and claim you assaulted her.

Mom's response: "What was the teacher doing there, anyway?" Gack!
Just imagine if it was HER kid who was getting beaten up two-on-one. She would've been screaming: "Where were the teachers???"

Heal quickly, pal :-)


Jeanie
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BTW, the other kid's parents were crying, "Not our child!" the whole time even though the teacher saw him hit DS#2 first.

Those are the people who get me. Their kid never causes problems, their kid is always right, their kid is always perfect. They allow this behavior to escalate, and then they can't believe it when the kid confesses to rape or murder or some other crime that the state doesn't approve of.

We asked why we should since DS#2 didn't go to the teacher sooner to stop the kid from harassing him as he should have and we figured he was just as guilty as the first kid....Meaning, we felt it was our responsibility to replace the lens, not the other kid's parents.

I wish more parents taught their kids what to do in bad situations. It would save a lot of grief.

When I was working at the library I was cleaning up some books that had been left out, and noticed a little tangle of kids at one desk. They were, oh, somewhere around ten or so. They were mostly boys, with one very frightened little girl. And it turned out that they were teasing and harassing her, she didn't know what to do, had run into the library, and was scared.

So I chased the boys out, locked the door so they couldn't get back in, and told her to call her parents. Mom turned out to be a medium-sized blonde, Dad turned out to be the image of a fullback for a pro team, and Dad Was Not Happy. He was fast, too, when he took out after those kids.

But I told her, and stressed, that if it happened again, she was to come to the desk and ask for help, not sit in a corner.

Nancy
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Mom's response: "What was the teacher doing there, anyway?" Gack!

I can't imagine any of the three of us getting in a fight as kids, but I do know that if any of us had ever been responsible for causing an injury: skidding on a bike and knocking someone down, running around a corner and running into someone, whatever, I know that the first words out of my mother's mouth would have been, "was the other person hurt? Did they see a doctor? Will they be all right?"

Then we would have had the little lecture on bicycle safety or whatever.

Nancy
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Glad to hear you are ok Tony. I still remember the day at my high school when an assistant principal broke up a fight between two girls--one of whom dropped her bag in the fight. A gun in it went off and grazed his forehead. He had survived getting shot down 3 times over VietNam only to be almost taken out by a 10th grader.

ARR
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dropped her bag in the fight. A gun in it went off and grazed his forehead.
===*===

More like the gun went off first THEN the bag was dropped. Unless she was totin' a pot metal Saturday night special (and maybe she was) a gun in a hand bag is unlikely to go off just because it gets dropped.
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Melissa is currently going through a situation at school that today again escalated. She no longer wanted to associate with another girl and I backed her up on this. We explained to the girl and her mother that the friendship was not working out, that there was too much drama, stress and lies to continue and omg, the fireworks I got from the other mother. Now my Melissa is no angel but my god, you would have thought I called her child Satan's spawn or something. I even played a message for her that her daughter left on my machine calling her mother a liar and fat cow. Did she beleive me after that? Nope. I finally had to get the school to intervene to a point, Melissa's schedule was changed to avoid being in classes with her, teachers were notified to watch for harassment and a "Principal" restraining order was put into effect, basically the other girl could not come within 15 feet of Melissa unless they were just passing the hallways. Now like I said, Melissa did a few mean things that made this situation really escalate and boy did I nail her for it. I made her apologize to the other girl in front of her mother, who the whole time was telling me how wonderful and sweet and pure her daughter was. Anyhow, the last three days the girl has sat down at Melissa's table at lunch, on purpose. Melissa didn't say a word, merely got up and moved to another table. The girl then sent another girl over to ask if she killed herself would Melissa even care. Melissa told the other girl it was none of her business and she had nothing to say. This went on for 3 days. Well, today it caught up with the other girl, word got to the school that she was threatening suicide and they had her removed for help. I am so glad they finally stepped in on her behalf because the mother lives in her own world where her daugter tells her everything and never lies to her and is perfectly happy. Huh, lady? You married a convicted pedophile who wasn't even supposed to be around minors, brought him into your house and claimed he was framed and only plead guilty to avoid the expense of a trial? Do some people even hear themselves talk? Anyway, the girl is finally getting help, I'm glad for her, Melissa is getting help dealing with the anger and the mood swings that are a result of this situation and I am trying very hard to make sure I don't tick her off because she's taller than me now and stronger too! EEEKKK!!

My point was basically, many parents try very hard to make sure their kids do know right from wrong, watch for signs of trouble and step in when they see them. They try to make sure issues are taken care of or give the child the tools to handle the issues but some parents just have these blinders that their child is perfect and can do no wrong. Thank God I'm not one of them, LOL The first words out of my mouth when someone calls and says, "Hi, I'm ***** and I'm calling about your child...." I say, "Which one and what did they do and how much is it going to cost to fix it?"

Deannda
Who has also told her kids, "Land in jail and you DID screw up, don't call me, land in jail because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and DID NOT screw up, call me."
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I know that the first words out of my mother's mouth would have been, "was the other person hurt? Did they see a doctor? Will they be all right?"

Then we would have had the little lecture on bicycle safety or whatever.


Yep. Same here. I still recall the worst lecture I ever got for giving a boy a bloody nose. Didn't matter that he was a horrid bully who was always pushing me. It was not self-defense. I just saw an opportunity to make a surprise attack when he wasn't expecting it and took action. Premeditated, with malice aforethought. I think I was 10.

His parents called mine. They went over to visit and check on the boy. The lecture I got went on for hours. THEN, I had to apologize to the creep. But I never did anything like it again.

Guess you and I were brought up in the dark ages, eh Nancy?

Jeanie
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But it does enable a relative few predators to get treated with kid gloves, and skate while doing tremendous harm until the courts classify them as adults. I can certainly empathize with an environment or physiological makeup that encourages or almost guaranties bad behavior, but that doesn't mean we have to let them keep getting away with it.

It's very true, Richard, and the kids know the system. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "There's nothing that can happen to me." I think that needs to be addressed.

I also think that the system is already so overloaded with more than it can handle, and that's another reason why they don't want the age lowered--it'd mean more to deal with.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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One-third of what you get now?

If that.

I'm just too expensive for anyone else to hire. That's not ego, that's just the way it is based on contracts.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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Nyah nyah, Tony got beat up by a girl....
...a 13-year-old one at that!


Oh sure! Jeanie doesn't talk to me for ages, but she hears one word about getting the you-know-what kicked outta me by a girl, and she comes runnin'! Sheesh. With friends like you, who needs enemas! ;-)

I hope there were some mature witnesses to this incident, just in case that brat tries to turn the tables and claim you assaulted her.

That's the one good thing. There were lots of witnesses, and video from the security camera. Fortunately, there's no case here where any defending of my actions comes into play.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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The problem is that because of age (in this case, 13 years old), there's nothing the system can do. The officer even told the principal that there's more she can do in the school than he can.

I hope that you will pursue court action anyway. If she has no existing record for this kind of thing, juvenile court probably won't do anything, but getting it onto her record is a good idea so that it will be there next time. If you don't persist, she could do it again and claim to be a first-timer offender.
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Land in jail and you DID screw up, don't call me
===*===

Who then?
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I'm just too expensive for anyone else to hire.
===*===

Depends on what me and Twitty'd be hiring you for dunnit?
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That's the one good thing. There were lots of witnesses, and video from the security camera. Fortunately, there's no case here where any defending of my actions comes into play.

It's a hellofaworld when there are security cameras so that teachers can prove they didn't attack a 13 year old girl who was doing her level best to kill another girl.

The reason I asked about private schools is that one of my relatives works in a country day school. He doesn't get nearly the amount of pay, but he gets a remarkable less amount of grief. And he's a wonderful, marvelous teacher. He has ~15 3rd graders a year. They study Egypt, Athens, and Rome. They wrap mummies, they write reports, they're a joy to deal with. They can understand concepts, they're polite, they do the work.

And he doesn't have to meet a lot of stupid state requirements (yes, he has a Master's in Education). He doesn't have to deal with kids fighting in the hall. ("You're expelled. You just cost your parents $18,000, and I don't care if they DO earn two million a year. Live with it"). He doesn't have to deal with parents who don't care about their kids or the kid's future.

He loves his job. He doesn't have to worry about whether his students will pass some stupid state exam that was dreamed up by a bunch of politicians. He doesn't have to take X number of special courses every year just to maintain his rating.

So I thought I'd mention it.

Nancy
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Who then?

Aunt Trenna or someone who might bail them out. My feeling is that if you break the law and you get busted, you pay the consequences. Another thing I tell them is that I will always love them, no matter what, but there may be times I don't like what they are doing or have done. ;) But the love will always be there.

Deannda
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Another thing I tell them is that I will always love them, no matter what, but there may be times I don't like what they are doing or have done. ;) But the love will always be there.
===*===

In other words: "I still love you completely but I ain't posting yer bail." I mean what do you do when Mom won't post yer bail?
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In other words: "I still love you completely but I ain't posting yer bail." I mean what do you do when Mom won't post yer bail?

You get raped by the other prisoners.

Nancy
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In other words: "I still love you completely but I ain't posting yer bail." I mean what do you do when Mom won't post yer bail?

You get raped by the other prisoners.


Well, that's a bit harsh. But to be truthful if they did a crime that is bad enough to land them in jail in the first place or god forbid, prison after the hearing then they deal with the consequences. Is that harsh? Yes. Do I love them any less? No. Do I feel horrible if it happens? Yes. Should I just get them out of it because they are my kid? I don't think so.

I had to go to court tonight to finish up the issue about the condition of my yard. While there a young woman, probably about 18 or so was there. Now this is village court, where everyone sits in the room and waits for their name to be called by the judge. No clerk recorder, no jury, just you and the judge to talk about traffic violations, village ordanice violations, little stuff.

This young lady sat in the back with her mom. She was dressed in a very tight halter top, name brand mind you, white hip hugger jeans with a wide white belt, cute little sandals and tanned like you wouldn't believe. She would have made George Harrison jealous. The make-up and hair was perfect of course. The lawyer is talking to the judge, it's about a speeding ticket. She was going 54 mph in a 20 mph school zone at lunch time. There are only two school zones in the village and they are each about 3 blocks long on the main streets so to be clocked going that fast you to have really gunned it from one light to the next.

I heard the lawyer ask for an extension on the case because they were going to have a "chat" with the district attorney about this whole unfortunate situation. The girl the whole time is standing there with a smirk on her face, kept glancing at her mom and whispering to the lawyer. Showing no respect to the judge at all. The judge gave the continuance and when the girl left Mom put her arm around her and I overheard her say, "Don't worry sweetie, we'll make this go away."

HELLO???? SOrry, but if you break the law, get caught you better be prepared to pay the fine, do the time, whatever is the consequence. I have to pay a $50 fine for my yard and am on a 1 year probation of sorts and the judge told me that should I end up in his court again there would be trouble. My comment was, "Well considering this is my first time ever in court in my life, I certainly hope it will be my last!"

My brother shoplifted from a Woolworth's when I was growing up. He had the money to pay for the stuff but thought it would be "cool" to just take it instead. He was 16 at the time. He got caught. The cops called my mother who asked them, "What will happen if I don't come get him?" I mean, they were just going to release him into her custody. They told her he would have to spend 5 days in jail waiting for the judge to hear his case. She said, "Let him sit." He lasted 4 days in a cell, by himself before he was in tears and realized that it was pretty stupid and that one lesson sent a message to the rest of us as well. It's not worth it. It didn't send me the message that my mother didn't love us, it told me she truly loved us enough to teach us the really hard lessons without putting us in any real danger. My brother was never in any danger of getting raped or hurt, the cops made sure of that but he was, as they say, scared straight. He never even thought about crossing that line again.

That's the really hard part about being a parent, letting them learn the hard lessons because if all you do is bail them out again and again, they learn nothing except that they think they are above the rest of society. Just ask a lawyer in my home town who did that for his kid, I went to school with. The lawyer ended up losing his house, his car and his practice because he kept bailing his son out.

I have taught my girls and am teaching James now, there are consequences to your actions and to think before you act. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. When they don't they have to live with the results, like them or not.

Deannda
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Well, that's a bit harsh. But to be truthful if they did a crime that is bad enough to land them in jail in the first place or god forbid, prison after the hearing then they deal with the consequences. Is that harsh? Yes. Do I love them any less? No. Do I feel horrible if it happens? Yes. Should I just get them out of it because they are my kid? I don't think so.

I know people who were arrested during war protests. They didn't commit a violent crime, they didn't rob anyone. They simply protested without a permit and were arrested, thrown in jail, and gang-raped.

Nancy
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I know people who were arrested during war protests. They didn't commit a violent crime, they didn't rob anyone. They simply protested without a permit and were arrested, thrown in jail, and gang-raped.


And I'm guessing this is in a large city? Another reason I stay in the small towns, where the cops know you, know your family, work with you and your kids to teach them the important lessons.

When Melissa was little she used to shoplift. She was only 3 or 4 at the time, Terry and I worked so much at the store she thought we owned it and she could take whatever she wanted. I tried explaining again and again that was not the case but just wasn't getting through to her. I finally talked to the Police Chief and the next time she took a candy bar without permission and tried to hide it (she knew it was wrong) I called him. He came over, took her out to his car and had a chat with her. Didn't have a problem for a year after that, then she started again. So I talked to another police officer and when she tried to take some items from the babysitter's house I took her straight to the police station where he again, sat down, had a chat and I have not had a problem with her since, well, okay, she still steals all my pens and pencils but that's normal in any household. But I tell you this, she will think twice before taking something of value that does not belong to her.

Deannda
Who never wants to live in or near a big city, thanks but no thanks
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Sorry, forgot two other points.

Sometimes people are wrongly accused.

And running the risk of letting your kid develop AIDS can have some horrific consequences. (I've just been reading Newsweek).

Food for thought, nothing more.

Nancy
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Sometimes people are wrongly accused.

And running the risk of letting your kid develop AIDS can have some horrific consequences.<?I>

And here is your food for thought, should my child call me I will know they are innocent and need to be rescued.

And don't talk to me about the consequences of AIDS, I had 4 friends in Montana who had (past tense since they have all died since then) AIDS so I got to see first hand the consequences. I live in a small town and the chances of one of my children landing in jail to start with is pretty darn slim and if they did, the chances of them getting raped or attacked are also pretty darn slim.

So basically, I'm a bad mother if I don't rescue my child every time they screw up? Yet you're the first one to say the parents need to take the responsibility to teach their child and make them accountable for their actions. Please, make up my mind.

Deannda
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Oh sure! Jeanie doesn't talk to me for ages, but she hears one word about getting the you-know-what kicked outta me by a girl, and she comes runnin'!

Now you know I was only funning wit 'ya.

Happy you're okay and even happier about the security camera.

Sure hope the mother of the victim had a more appropriate response to your intervention.


Jeanie
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So basically, I'm a bad mother if I don't rescue my child every time they screw up? Yet you're the first one to say the parents need to take the responsibility to teach their child and make them accountable for their actions. Please, make up my mind.

I'm not going to make up your mind for you.

I will clarify what I am saying.

There is a serious difference in allowing your child to spend time in jail "to teach him a lesson," thereby exposing them to hard-core criminals and AIDS before you've heard the story of what happened, and not allowing him or her to be properly disciplined for bad behavior.

Most parents would bail their kids out, get a lawyer, and then decide what to do at a calmer moment.

Nancy

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But I never did anything like it again.


I gotta ask: did he ever bother you again after you sucker punched him?

Andrea
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Dee, Nancy,



You both are correct to a point.


Situation DOES depends on area!

Big city=bad news jailwise, rural=we caught your yonkin'...not so bad, most of time.


I am not a expert!(Has-been Drip under pressure.) But have been in trouble in both situations before.

Have had a sevice revolver pulled on me by small town Barny Fife type for an aledged curfew violation...and all the chambers were loaded...I can count the dark grey projectiles in the chambers to this very day! I mean, Hey!, you just asked for my ID, officer...here it is. Yes, I AM over 18, just got off work and walk off my frustations every night for the past 3 weeks, hit the bar and walk home.

His parner of the night was screaming at him to "Put the #$%@ gun away, @$$#$%*. He ain't resisting or fleeing, you knucklehead!!


On the other hand called cops in T-town to unlock car one night. They couldn't get it. Handed the slim-jim to me and on first attempt, both unlocked the door and made it pop open 4 inches in one move of the tool. (Never handled one in my life before that! No joke.) They wanted to take me down to HQ. Till I produced registation to my own car.

Probibly was put on watch list for a while after that. But still went to see my main squeeze...who became my wife.




But each person MUST take response for their own actions! That is what is wrong with this county right now....


Former US leader..."I did not inhale, I tried but couldn't"....Pure and utter BS! I can read your body language, you lying sack of $##^. Billy-boy! You tried and you liked it way too much!!! (No, I don't mean you BillF.)


B-man




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You both are correct to a point.


Situation DOES depends on area!

Big city=bad news jailwise, rural=we caught your yonkin'...not so bad, most of time.


You need to understand. I'm not for a minute advocating that a child should commit a crime and not be punished. But leaving him with what could be hard-core criminals (which can happen in any town or city, depending on who's just been arrested) might not teach him (or her) the lesson the parent wants them to learn.

Punishments can be worked out calmly, thoroughly, with input from police, whatever social workers need to be involved, and the victim.

I think if you talk to most police, they'll say that leaving a child in jail doesn't always accomplish what the parents think it will.

There's a difference between condoning bad behavior, and allowing your child to be left in a dangerous situation.

Nancy
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But to be truthful if they did a crime that is bad enough to land them in jail in the first place
===*===

These days you kin wind up in jail for saying "Allah U Akbar" in an airport, or looking "wrong".
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These days you kin wind up in jail for saying "Allah U Akbar" in an airport, or looking "wrong".

Or walking onto someone else's property and picking some flowers, or patting their dog.

Trespassing, vandalism, etc. Anyone could be arrested for walking onto the wrong person's property. And yes, they need to learn to respect other people's property. But the courts aren't going to send them to Sing Sing for picking a flower. A couple hours working in the garden to repair the damage seems a lot more appropriate.

Nancy
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These days you kin wind up in jail for saying "Allah U Akbar" in an airport, or looking "wrong".

In the kid realm, here you end up at the detention center for a curfew violation.

rad
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Step 1: Get your child out of jail (barring unusual circumstances like this is his 16th DUI this year).

Step 2: Assess the situation

Step 3: Decide on your next step

Step 4: Amass the assets you're gonna need

Step 5: Face the music

Step 6: Take appropriate action to keep same from happening in the future
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Pure and utter BS! I can read your body language, you lying sack of $##^. Billy-boy! You tried and you liked it way too much!!!
===*===

And this offends you compared to what?
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Sure hope the mother of the victim had a more appropriate response to your intervention.

That's the bright side, Jeanie. One of the AP's sought me out after this happened to tell me that the mother of the victim was so grateful, and said, "Please tell the teacher I said thanks so much for what he did." That did mean a lot.

Meanwhile, I'll be going back to the grind on Monday.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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I gotta ask: did he ever bother you again after you sucker punched him?

No he didn't. We actually became pretty good friends for a while until he moved away.

Hey... you don't suppose the reason they moved was....? Nah!


Jeanie ;-)
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the mother of the victim was so grateful, and said, "Please tell the teacher I said thanks so much for what he did." That did mean a lot.

It would be better if she wrote you a personal note, rather than send a message through a third party, but then I'm a stickler for personal expressions of gratitude. A plate of brownies would go a long way, too!

Still, faith is restored somewhat :-)


Jeanie
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A plate of brownies would go a long way, too!


Thanks, Jeanie!!! I'll be home all day tomorrow. What time should I expect them? :-)

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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Tony, I hope your extra day off has you feeling better.

There is a lot that needs to be fixed in this country, both in the schools and in the prison systems. Regardless, because of you, there are mothers who will celebrate mother's day this weekend with daughters at home, rather than in the hospital. You saw a need and you jumped in to do the right thing. I'm glad that you did, and I'm sorry that you got hurt.

- lynndawg, glad that there are still people like you out there, and grateful your injuries were not more serious than they are
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Thanks for that post, lynndawg. That meant a lot!

Ironically, my extra day off tomorrow isn't going to be quite the relaxing-one-more-day-for-healin' that I planned on. In fact, as of this moment, I realize I couldn't be going in even if I wanted to.

At about 4pm, my back felt a little stiff, and I attributed it to working too long on the computer. But by 6pm, it hit. My back has gone into total spasm, and it's soooo painful to move, even to take a deep breath.

I called my friend who's an internist, and asked him if it makes any sense that this could be from my incident, and it's just happening now. He told me that not only is it reasonable, but pretty much a given because it takes 48 hours for symptons from muscle strain like I have to appear (I hadn't known that).

So, tomorrow I'll make my third trip to the doctor for some muscle relaxants and to get this documented.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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I called my friend who's an internist, and asked him if it makes any sense that this could be from my incident, and it's just happening now. He told me that not only is it reasonable, but pretty much a given because it takes 48 hours for symptons from muscle strain like I have to appear (I hadn't known that).

So, tomorrow I'll make my third trip to the doctor for some muscle relaxants and to get this documented.


Ouch.

Back pain s. Oh. Sorry. Can't use that word.

But I know how horrible it can be, and you have my sympathy.

Would physical therapy be of any help? I was read-ended in an accident once, and all my back and neck muscles spasmed. I was in pain for several days, but it finally turned out that I couldn't move my neck.

Should you ask your doctor about PT or long-term effects?

{{{{{Tony}}}}}

Nancy
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Hey Tony,

I called my friend who's an internist, and asked him if it makes any sense that this could be from my incident, and it's just happening now. He told me that not only is it reasonable, but pretty much a given because it takes 48 hours for symptons from muscle strain like I have to appear (I hadn't known that).

I had a nasty car accident once and was taken to the hospital to be checked over. I "felt fine" and just wanted to get out of there and go home. They put a collar on my neck and told me I could not leave the hospital without wearing it out the door.

When I got home I threw the collar across the room and went to bed. The next morning when I awoke, I turned over and screamed. The pain was so intense that I almost cried...it actually hurt worse than when I popped two discs in my back a coupla years earlier.

It took me forever to get outta bed, crawl across the room to the collar, and put it back on. I wore it for another three days after that.

I never realized what people went through when they had whiplash, but I sure sympathize with them today!!

I can fully understand, and believe, that it's taken a coupla days for this injury to be fully recognized by your body...and SYMPATHIZE!!

So, tomorrow I'll make my third trip to the doctor for some muscle relaxants and to get this documented.

Shoulda come over to my house as y'all coulda had some today instead of waiting. <g>

But seriously though...

At about 4pm, my back felt a little stiff, and I attributed it to working too long on the computer. But by 6pm, it hit. My back has gone into total spasm, and it's soooo painful to move, even to take a deep breath.

I'm so sorry to hear that y'all're dealing with this pain. If I were you, I'd ask the MD to recommend a massage or three by a Pain Management MD as this will help release the tension in the muscle/s and get it/them moving again. And, be forewarned, the first treatment might actually hurt at first, but after the second treatment I promise y'all'll feel better.

Ask about traction and heat packs as well. And maybe even using a Tens Unit.

Oh, and get y'all some Biofreeze;

http://www.biofreeze.com/

Insurance "should" pay for all of this with MD recommendations.

ßillƒ

e-mailed and posted
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Well I was there and she dropped the bag and it went off afterwards. I have no idea what kind of gun it was as I ran like hell for cover and didn't stick around to inquire.
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Oh, and get y'all some Biofreeze;

There are times when I swear I am held together with Biofreeze and Thermacare heat wraps.

Good stuff, both of 'em.

Tony, hope you're feeling better SOON!

Cassandra

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...and Thermacare heat wraps.

Oh my! I forgot all about these...I have one for my neck and one for my back and I LOVE these things!!! And so does the DW!!

Thank you for mentioning them Cassandra!

http://www.thermophore.com/

ßillƒ
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I called my friend who's an internist, and asked him if it makes any sense that this could be from my incident, and it's just happening now. He told me that not only is it reasonable, but pretty much a given because it takes 48 hours for symptons from muscle strain like I have to appear (I hadn't known that).



Oh Tony, Please get better soon. Be sure to do everything the doctor says!

Andrea
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I'm so sorry to hear that y'all're dealing with this pain. If I were you, I'd ask the MD to recommend a massage or three by a Pain Management MD as this will help release the tension in the muscle/s and get it/them moving again. And, be forewarned, the first treatment might actually hurt at first, but after the second treatment I promise y'all'll feel better.

Ask about traction and heat packs as well. And maybe even using a Tens Unit.

Oh, and get y'all some Biofreeze;

http://www.biofreeze.com/


Those all sound like excellent ideas.

I bought what I call my "heaty thingy" at this link:

http://www.grampasgarden.com/

I bought the therapak for the neck, and one for my hands and I use them after I play or practice fiddle. It is so wonderful - you heat them in the microwave, then apply them - the heat and the weight work wonders. Better than a heating pad, because you can walk around with them on and they don't stay "on" all the time - you stop using it once they cool down. Better, I think.

Andrea
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Egad, back spasms. ick ick ick. Been there, done that, they can keep the t-shirt!!!

Depending on where the strain is, you will be told anything from icepacks to a Tens unit, like Bill said. Tens unit was the thing that helped me the most when I suffered a severe back strain.

Muscle relaxants taste *much* better w/rum, by the way... ;)

- lynndawg
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Thanks, Nancy.

Should you ask your doctor about PT or long-term effects?

Well, I went this morning, and he told confirmed what my doctor friend had said. He said it was usual for this kind of "spasm-lock-up" as he called it to present itself 48-72 hours after injury. He gave me pain killers and muscle relaxers. I'm hoping after a few days it'll work its way out. If not, I'll go the next step. For now, I'm counting on returning to work on Monday.

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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Lotsa good advice there, Bill. Thank you! I'm going to take it one step at a time. I'm fine as long as I don't move a muscle, LOL.

I remember this happening about 15 years ago after breaking up a fight between 9th grade boys. I remember how I had twisted, and a few days later, the spasms arrived--just like now. At least back then, no one was fighting "me"!

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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For now, I'm counting on returning to work on Monday.
===*===

Izzat when you're gonna show yer students your Walter Brennan imitation (snappers of whips may have to ask their betters about that reference)?

((((((Tony))))))

Y'know a hot buttered rum can be used externally as well as internally don'tchur?

Da Mopp
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But did they tell you to watch Oprah? That is really important medical advice for anyone sick enough to stay home from work.

Yeah, that way you get sicker and get to stay home longer...... :P

RkeFool--Avid hater of all daytime TV since 1902
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RkeFool--Avid hater of all daytime TV since 1902

You never watched "Dark Shadows"?

Nancy
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Tony knows my story about watching Oprah.

Several years ago I was having dental work done and the local anesthetic wasn't working. The dentist had a theory that the patient's anxiety can block the onset of local anesthesia, so he wanted me to be distracted for a few minutes. There was a television in the room and he turned it on.

It worked. Five more minutes and I would have been unconscious.
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(((Tony)))

Holy smokes. Hope you're feeling a touch better...geesh. Let this be a lesson to you. No good deed goes unpunished.

Onward!
Tamarian
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You never watched "Dark Shadows"?


I sure did! That was my favorite show at the time. I used to run home by 4:00 so that I could watch Barnabus, Angelique (had a crush on her), Quentin, Maggie, and all the rest from Collinwood.

I still like to believe there's a parallel time. ;-)

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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You never watched "Dark Shadows"?

Nope, last daytime TV I watched was when I was six or seven years old, I'd come home from school to Grandma's house (she and Grandad would watch me until Mom and Dad got home from work), grab a snack, and watch Looney Tunes. :)

RkeFool
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I used to run home by 4:00 so that I could watch Barnabus, Angelique (had a crush on her), Quentin, Maggie, and all the rest from Collinwood.

I always thought that Jonathan Frid should be nominated for the World's Worst Actor award. He was so bad he was funny.

And I was always sorry that they dropped the Chris Jennings role. He was confronted by his ex-fiance, whose hair had gone white, and who was unable to speak or move because of the shock, and that was the last time we saw him.

Nancy
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And I was always sorry that they dropped the Chris Jennings role. He was confronted by his ex-fiance, whose hair had gone white, and who was unable to speak or move because of the shock, and that was the last time we saw him.

I remember that. And Chris Jennings was the best werewolf!

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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I still like to believe there's a parallel time.
===*===

And more than one.
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I'm going to take it one step at a time. I'm fine as long as I don't move a muscle, LOL.

Yet yer still talkin'. :-)

I remember this happening about 15 years ago after breaking up a fight between 9th grade boys. I remember how I had twisted, and a few days later, the spasms arrived--just like now. At least back then, no one was fighting "me"!

Well, then pop yer pills, have a little rum and rest up over the weekend. Come Monday y'all gotta face yer co-workers and y'all're givin' them plenty of time to think up sum funny stuff to say and do to y'all. ;-)

ßillƒ
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Come Monday y'all gotta face yer co-workers and y'all're givin' them plenty of time to think up sum funny stuff to say and do to y'all. ;-)

And believe me, Bill, they will! LOL! I can hear it now... ugh!

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba
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You might want to see a doctor about that concussion, Tony. I wrote that post.

===*===


Oh geez, Nancy! Sorry about that! I guess I really am a little out of sorts afterall. For some reason, I read the post and thought Utahtea had posted it.

Thanks for clearing that up, and thanks for the post!

Tony
...but I still am...

Off2Aruba


I was here in spirt! I hope all is well...I'm sure I will find out as I continue to read. I am just now skimming though the over 300 post I missed while I was gone on my short but wonderful trip to Yosemite.

'Tea


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You might want to see a doctor about that concussion, Tony. I wrote that post.


Oh geez, Nancy! Sorry about that! I guess I really am a little out of sorts afterall. For some reason, I read the post and thought Utahtea had posted it.

Thanks for clearing that up, and thanks for the post!


Tony,

So sorry to hear that things got worse. Hope you are feeling much better today. I can sure feel for you. I've had one of those back injuries with spasms where I had to take muscle relaxers and even had to go to phyical therapy before I could bend over and even SEE my toes, let alone touch them!

Utahtea
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I was gone on my short but wonderful trip to Yosemite.

'Tea


So how is El Capitan? and Meadow Lake?


Andrea
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Ouch! Tony, I'm sorry to hear about this. What an awful way to spend a day --or several, it sounds (I skimmed the thread). Hope you're well on your way to recovery!

Hilary
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First of all, {{{{{{Tony}}}}}}.

And as for kids fighting at school, I agree with IF that sometimes one of the fight participants is a good kid who doesn't just want to hand over their lunch money, or whatever. My brother got in a fight related to school, that they had off-campus (because kids who got in fights at the school were taken to the vice-principal's office, and had to fight until he told them they could stop--it was a private all boy Catholic school, and there were almost no fights at school). Even though it didn't happen at school, all the fight participants were punished by having to help the janitors clean the school for a whole weekend.

It was a fair punishment. My brother was/is a good kid, though--he just wasn't going to let himself be bullied. Of course, he didn't hit a school employee--that's definitely a different category of stupid. And if the parents don't get it, I would like to see them set to picking oakum. :-)


--Booa
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