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Author: EddieGorniak Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 36686  
Subject: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 1:02 PM
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I bought to open 200 SONS at 20.24. I put in a stop at 19. Will probably sell tomorrow.
Eddie G
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Author: EddieGorniak Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5942 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 1:38 PM
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SONS jumped from 20.24 to 21.29 in 15 minutes. I raised my stop from 20 to 21. Is that about the right number? Or would most of you have raised the stop to the purchase price of 20.24?
Eddie G

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Author: EddieGorniak Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5951 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 1:59 PM
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Sons drifted down to about 21.10 and seems to be holding around there. Winning gamblers don't let winners turn into losers without a good reason. So I will move the stop up to 20.50. This would give me a small profit of .26 before commissions. Anyone, feel free to offer an opinion.
Eddie G

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Author: stevieoh Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5954 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:06 PM
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eddie, it looks good for today to keep going IMTO, needs to close above 22.80 to fill the gap from 6/13. Personally, I would keep a tight stop...if it hits, get back in on a pull back on the 10 min. chart.

Your stop is in a good spot though.

Good trade!!!!!!!!!!!

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Author: EddieGorniak Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5955 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:07 PM
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SONS moving up again. Just moved my stop up to 21.55 while it's at 21.70. Don't hestitate to criticize or offer opinions or suggestions. Anything is welcome. Call me a coward, anything. I'm trying to get use to this short term trading.
Eddie G

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Author: stevieoh Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5956 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:14 PM
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Call me a coward, anything. I'm trying to get use to this short term trading.

You're doing awesome!!!!!!!!!keep going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Author: EddieGorniak Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5957 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:21 PM
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I got stopped out of 100 at 21.39 and 100 at 29.34. It turned and started moving down fast. My stops were filled .16 and .21 below my stop price of 21.55.
Eddie G

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Author: stevieoh Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5958 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:22 PM
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WAY TO GO EDDIE!!!!!!!!!!! I might look to see how 20.10 area looks to get back in

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Author: stevieoh Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5960 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:25 PM
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My stops were filled .16 and .21 below my stop price of 21.55.

Darned old stop orders....thats what can happen with them but you still did great and got out with a nice profit to boot...great trade!!!!


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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5961 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:26 PM
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I know how it feels to get the stops filled at below the stop price, but where would it be now if they hadn't been set! Way to go! Catch it again at the bottom...

The biggest bummer is when they fill at say 21.34 and never again drop below that price!

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Author: stevieoh Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5962 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:28 PM
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I might look to see how 20.10 area looks to get back in

Should be 21.10 not 20.10

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Author: EddieGorniak Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5964 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:32 PM
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I should mention that wasn't my pick. Fri ends a 4 week free trial. I have been looking at a day trading site, Global Investor Chat. This was the first time I bought one of their picks. I keep looking at their chat throughout the day. The $200 will offset some of what I'm losing on my other positions I've mentioned in the last few days. I welcome opinions and advice from all of you. I might not listen for that particular trade. Once I decide on something, I usually stick to it. But I will listen and it could improve any future trades. Thanks.

Eddie G

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Author: EddieGorniak Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5966 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:42 PM
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This past hour or two seemed much more like gambling than investing. And I was going to raise my stops again when SONS hit 21.90. But I was too slow. And when the board modertor that gave out the pick returned from lunch, he just kept telling everyone to sell at 21.20 or higher. Take the sure money and run. That's what they do over there. They buy and often sell within a minute. But these are new afternoon picks. And this was originally supposed to be an over night position. But in my years of gambling I've learned I should always give my winnings or profits a chance to keep growing. In any other gambling I'm good at limiting my losses. But with stocks that has been my biggest weakness. I'll have to get faster at raising those stops while the stock is rising. This way I will lock in more of the profits. I must repeat this felt more like just gambling then investing.
Eddie G

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Author: alcear Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5967 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:51 PM
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I must repeat this felt more like just gambling then investing.
Eddie G ....it is gambling,only it's a two horse race & your the jockey!

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Author: stevieoh Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5969 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 2:53 PM
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I must repeat this felt more like just gambling then investing.

Eddie, I can see why you would feel that way but in reality, you could look at investing that way too, ST od DT just happens alot sooner......did you say that you have a few computer screens and are set up more or less for DT? Some times ST can turn into DT without meaning to....ask jean, she DTs all the time lol.

Seriously though, seems like in this case, it just hit the price a little sooner than planned...wish all my trades went as well!!!


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Author: sonar69 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5988 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 3:34 PM
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You can win at 21 if you know how to count cards.

This is JMO...you shuld be able to find good stock picks reading message boards. Do your own DD first though. NEVER just go buy or sell based on a stock on a message board. I spend my money on breifing.com and realmoney.com. Tons of info on thise two sites.

Once you get use to a stock, a lot of the time it can be traded over and over.

Great trade!

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5991 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 3:41 PM
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I must repeat this felt more like just gambling then investing.

It isn't "investing" it's trading. It's not gambling....try putting a stop loss or a trailing stop when you put your money in the slot machine! Or half way thru the poker hand, say "Let me out"


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Author: Calabogie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6001 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 3:57 PM
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SONS jumped from 20.24 to 21.29 in 15 minutes. I raised my stop from 20 to 21. Is that about the right number? Or would most of you have raised the stop to the purchase price of 20.24?

I'm sure some have already posted their opinions on this but here's my take. It's up to you! A lot depends on your risk tolerance but even more depends on your number of shares. If you could eake out a profit from a .05 gain, I'd probably move it up to 20.29 which would put it exactly one buck below the current price (then current, not now.)

I would then watch it VERY closely keeping my trailing stops right behind it because SONS can turn on you VERY quickly.

That's just MY opinion though and YOURS is the one that counts. I know you're looking for advice and I also know that saying it's your trade is not really helpful. The problem is, if someone tells you to put your stop at a certain price and it trips there but then shoots way beyond that, people tend to feel guilty that they gave you what they (and you) might think was a bad trailing-stop price.

One thing to always do is make sure you protect profits. If you miss a big runup because your stop was too tight but you made a profit off the trade, you've had a successful trade! If you leave your stop too low (still at stop-loss territory) and the stock goes below that and you lose money when you could have had a profit, THAT'S MUCH worse.

Hope this helps. I know it's roundabout advice but it's tough to call for someone else.

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Author: EddieGorniak Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6002 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 3:58 PM
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I have counted cards at bj since 1973 when I turned 21 and went to Vegas for my first trip there. But conditions aren't really good to make much money unless you have at least a $100,000 bankroll. And then it is very difficult with all the technology casinos can use against you along with counter measures.
Eddie G

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Author: Calabogie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6008 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 4:01 PM
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Winning gamblers don't let winners turn into losers without a good reason.

Should have read further before I answered the first time but that line above is as true for stocks as it is for gambling! A VERY good way if thinking Eddie!

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Author: Calabogie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6010 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 4:04 PM
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SONS moving up again. Just moved my stop up to 21.55 while it's at 21.70. Don't hestitate to criticize or offer opinions or suggestions. Anything is welcome. Call me a coward, anything. I'm trying to get use to this short term trading.

You're doing great from what I can see! Keeping them tighter as it goes higher is a great idea because with a stock like SONS it can turn on you in a second.

It's not cowardly to preserve profits. There ain't no cowards in the market. They all went broke long ago.

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Author: Calabogie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6012 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 4:07 PM
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I got stopped out of 100 at 21.39 and 100 at 29.34. It turned and started moving down fast. My stops were filled .16 and .21 below my stop price of 21.55.

YAHOO EDDIE!!! WAY TO GO!!! That was a GREAT trade and exactly the way it's supposed to be done!@

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Author: Calabogie Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6018 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 4:14 PM
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I must repeat this felt more like just gambling then investing.

Eddie, it depends on what type of "gambling" you engage in. I played poker at one time in my life but I most emphatically DID NOT gamble! I played high stakes poker with people who weren't nearly as dedicated to it as I was and I NEVER took chances. I also NEVER left profit on the table including one incident where I actually had to take the note on another players car because I wouldn't leave until I had been paid. As an aside, that's why I stopped playing poker except for penny ante games. Too much guilt.

It's not like yanking the lever on a slot machine but it is a lot like poker. You know the odds, you have the information, you can do the research, and you can find out all about the players. There is an occasional wildcard in the deck (unexpected bad news or a bad reaction to other news) but that's a part of life, not gambling.

Anyway, that's just my take on it. Regardless of how you did it or what you feel, it was a darn good trade!

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Author: EddieGorniak Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6020 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 4:18 PM
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Thanks for all the advice. And thanks for the two sites. I'll have to check them out. I told a little about myself in a different thread. This way those that are only interested in stocks won't have to waste any time reading about me.

I can take a fair amount or risk. A few years ago I sometimes had almost everything in as little 2 or 3 stock or option positions. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging. But I did build up a fairly small bankroll into over 10 times it's original size. But I used stock and options. And it did take almost 2 years. And I would sometimes have over half or more in one position. But then I changed my style. I started listening to all the stuff I was reading and hearing from the experts. Stuff like diversifying. And buying & holding long term. Before that I did hold some stocks like dell, AOL, EBAY and others over a year or two. But I would sometimes switch out of a stock or option position in a week or less.

And I hope none of your ever hestitate to criticize, or offer opinions or advice on any of my trades. I have been listing the positions I've been taking, the prices, and what I think are support & resistance levels. And I'm finally starting to use some stops. But on some positions I will never use a stop. Thanks again for all the good advice & helpful sites & books. Now I just have to learn to use everything better.

Eddie G

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Author: stevieoh Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6026 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 4:23 PM
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And then it is very difficult with all the technology casinos can use against you along with counter measures.

Sounds like the stock market to me, when money is involved, the pros know EXACTLY how to steal it from even very experienced traders.....Be very carefull and don't put one red cent more in your account than you are willing to burn.

You did excellent on the trade today, sounds like you have enough equipment, you may need a little more time to learn it all but eddie, please be extremely carefull, its too easy to let the good trades fool you into thinking that this is easy money. I think once that feeling gets ahold of you, the market straightens out your thinking real quick.........and theres no going to the store to pick up another bag of money.

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Author: EddieGorniak Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6041 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 5:06 PM
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Hi Steve.
Thanks for all the help & advice. Would you believe I was positive or bullish all through the nasdaq's biggest decline ever. And in the past I did turn a starting $10,000 into over $100,000. But I gave it all back, so don't think I'm bragging. I'm just being honest so everyone knows more about me. And now you all can see how dumb I have been and am. So I've been through this before. But this intentional very short term trading is a little new or different for me. I've had days where I double or tripled my money on an option position in less than a day. And there was a lot more money involved than today. So almost always being bullish has, at times, been my best strength. But it has also been my biggest weakness. But I don't ever want to go through losing everything again. So if I'm lucky enough to buile up some money, I will most likely become more conservative the more I get. Please don't take any of this as bragging. It's not. Big deal. I made some good money during the late stages of one of the biggest ever bull markets. So did many others. But they didn't give it back like I did. I could tell some stories and make excuses. But I realize how dumb I was and I know it was 100% my fault. I have to be sure it never happens again. But I know I can make money. Maybe not as fast as before or as much. But I have to get going because I have to keep up with all my bills.
Eddie G



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Author: stevieoh Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6053 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/26/2001 5:55 PM
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But I realize how dumb I was and I know it was 100% my fault. I have to be sure it never happens again. But I know I can make money. Maybe not as fast as before or as much. But I have to get going because I have to keep up with all my bills.

Eddie your awesome, I could have almost written your post as my own - especially the last part! When I started, I could do no wrong...bought calls on NVLS, CIEN and AMAT were my favorites....raked in some huge $$$ in 2 days like I could not believe.

Then puts, then more calls, then more puts, then more puts and still more puts.......then......... that evil suprise rate cut hit and I lost over 90% as my puts on QCOM expired worthless..uuggghh <sigh>, I got out of my 60 puts on NVLS for only a 95% loss.....talk about an idiot. what WAS I thinking?????

Well I am only glad that it was money that I knew I was putting at risk, but I never really knew HOW MUCH risk until it was gone - and there was no going to get a bag of money from the store either....what a jack ass - I learned the hardest way there was, and to tell you the truth, I don't think I would have learned as good a lesson had it happened any other way!

But I do not wish that on anyone and will try to save anyone who may be on that path. Thats why I envy Janny, she started small and built up her account.....the smart way to start.

As for me, I quit my job in Dec., took a few courses that I would not reccommend and have never worked at anything so hard in all my life - the heck of it is - is I wonder when it'll all finally pay off?

Since I have found this board and others on the fool, the fool has been the best resource for info I have found. This is by far my favorite board and I learn alot from here everyday - I'm just glad you found this place and ask, post and add your .02 often!

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Author: Janegayne Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6068 of 36686
Subject: Re: SONS Date: 6/27/2001 2:52 AM
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Thats why I envy Janny, she started small and built up her account.....the smart way to start.

Now you got me blushing!! (and red doesn't fit me at all!! LOL)

I just COULDN'T start with more. Having a family with four children still in schoolage and growing, cost's a lot of money. My husband has a real good job, so I didn't really need to go and look for a job. I just wanted to have something to do, after the youngest went to school, so we just put apart, what we could miss and I started trading with that.!
The best of it is, that I'm at home when the children come back from school and I still be allways there for them!

Janny


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