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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 10516  
Subject: Speakers Date: 1/4/2013 4:21 PM
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Michael, I've been lurking, watching the speaker thread above as we'd like to make some moves this year... Receiver, I think I'm set with a Yamaha RX-V673 unit with the sub control jack... (not yet ordered but on my list)

But speakers, besides the sub, from your link http://www.parts-express.com/brand/bic-america/411 above, I spotted http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=303-... But, it's 8" high witch will cover a couple inches of my Samsung 46" TV! Other ones we've looked at are slimmer, but they insist on including a sub I don't want/need, since we have a new powered Yamaha sub already.....

Speaker bars seem to eliminate some of the clutter, too bad the BIC Formula FH56-BAR is too high...

So, looking for alternates...

The family room area is not huge, open to kitchen on the left.. What I have now is a cobble of old cast metal bookshelves, RS I think, better than none, but much less than would/could be a decent setup... The new receiver means all the existing wiring will be redone, to HDMI... Should be fun...

weco
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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10103 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/4/2013 5:37 PM
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Michael, I've been lurking, watching the speaker thread above as we'd like to make some moves this year... Receiver, I think I'm set with a Yamaha RX-V673 unit with the sub control jack... (not yet ordered but on my list)

wecoguy


That’s a really 7.2 nice amp. All nice bells and whistles both audio and visual. An amp that will last years and years. http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amp...

But speakers, besides the sub, from your link http://www.parts-express.com/brand/bic-america/411 above, I spotted http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=303-...... But, it's 8" high which will cover a couple inches of my Samsung 46" TV! Other ones we've looked at are slimmer, but they insist on including a sub I don't want/need, since we have a new powered Yamaha sub already.....

Speaker bars seem to eliminate some of the clutter, too bad the BIC Formula FH56-BAR is too high...

So, looking for alternates...


I like riprock’s answer: build a platform on which the TV sits so there’s room for a sound bar. Don’t know what rip used but my cheapie idea is bricks and a board. Bose has a new speaker that fits under the TV but it’s limited to the weight of the TV and your 46 may be too heavy for it. Plus the price is a tad high.

The family room area is not huge, open to kitchen on the left. What I have now is a cobble of old cast metal bookshelves, RS I think, better than none, but much less than would/could be a decent setup... The new receiver means all the existing wiring will be redone, to HDMI... Should be fun...

I did that when I switched from the Yamaha RX-Z9 (component) to the Z-11 (HDMI). Elly got worried seeing the growing pile of no-longer-necessary cables wondering if I was stripping too much away.

As for your room think of the kitchen as a reverb chamber/cavity which is not a bad thing since it does open what could be a too-small area. We have the same although the main area is about 3,000 cubic feet and the kitchen about the same. The only problem I encountered was in bass management and that solved by placing the subs away from corner echoing. When you get your system with the new amp play with where you have the powered sub.

If I win the lottery tonight ($50 million) I am going to build the perfect home theater room. Then I am going to build a house around it.

MichaelR

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10107 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/5/2013 3:46 AM
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Thanks for the thoughts Michael... I guess the kitchen is a good reverb, granite tile, hard appliances, cabinets... I liked the Yamaha's self diagnosis setup, likely better than I could ever manage on my own, there were other models, but few had that 12v sub control jack...

One solution to stick with the BIC bar would be to go to wall mounting the TV, raising it slightly.. The base extends forward and as we live in earthquake country (NorCal), might be better to go wall mount anyway..

Wouldn't it be a kick to build all new, but not happening, at 70+, I still think I can do it all, but reality is there would be a lot of pain involved..

OK, I'll keep planning, plotting, I guess I have to play the Lottery to win, tho.. Hmmm...

weco

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10108 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/5/2013 3:43 PM
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Thanks for the thoughts Michael... I guess the kitchen is a good reverb, granite tile, hard appliances, cabinets... I liked the Yamaha's self diagnosis setup, likely better than I could ever manage on my own, there were other models, but few had that 12v sub control jack...

weco


When I think of all the time I’ve spent with a SPL meter compared with YPAO I likes me the YPAO. I have the Yamaha Z-11 (11.2) and 15 speakers in the room and setting that up with a SPL is something daunting. The only problem I had was bass management and solved that by adding an extra sub: YPAO tried to solve the bass standing wave and it was okay-ish but the additional sub did wonders.

One solution to stick with the BIC bar would be to go to wall mounting the TV, raising it slightly.. The base extends forward and as we live in earthquake country (NorCal), might be better to go wall mount anyway.

I can’t wall mount since the TV is against two screened windows. So I used picture wire to secure the TV to the part-wall I have. Means the set won’t fall forward but will back (a foot or so). If I could I would wall mount – far safer.

Wouldn't it be a kick to build all new, but not happening, at 70+, I still think I can do it all, but reality is there would be a lot of pain involved..

OK, I'll keep planning, plotting, I guess I have to play the Lottery to win, tho.. Hmmm...


I hit the big 75 this year and, since I didn’t win the $50 million last night, life as it is continues. But think, weco, if we did hit the jackpot we’d have enough to wave our hands and have scads of others do it for us.

MichaelR

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10113 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/6/2013 3:02 AM
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Yes, there is that, backing off, let others do what we know we can do, but it hurts, like roofing, flooring, construction... Plumbing I willingly gave up on ASAP... Still do a bit, learned to love PVC/ABS..


A cousin his a nice solution across town.. Fairly small room, but he'd uncovered an old coal fireplace, found an original cast facing, but had long since taken out the chimney when they re-roofed.. Anyway, no NG insert, just some flickery fake candles.. So no heat.. Then he wall mounted his 46" TV, tipped at a bit of an angle.. Then went to the local framers shop, found some very nice picture frame molding, made it a perfect fit.. Then added a couple small cables up to the high mounted picture railing. So it looks like the TV is actually hanging on the wires.. All the wiring hidden away..

So, the more I think about it, the more I'm liking wall mounting that TV... I have a 40" here in my office (Merry Xmas to me) now, up on a strong shelf, but the Samsung has no mechanism to tilt forward, so I need another wall mount here... Man I'm glad these things are so light! I won't bother to hide cabling, too many others already...

OK, I think I have it planned, just have to make the next leap!

We do use local contractors, had excellent luck with some great people, whether heating re-do, roofing, painting, hardwood flooring, and now the latest was ripping out driveways, walks and doing it all with pavers. we live on adobe, so the old stuff had gaps, settled, now, all continuous, landscaping is next, some trees need to come down, be replaced... There is no end to it!

weco

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10114 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/6/2013 8:49 PM
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Alan King wrote a book: ‘Anyone Who Owns Their Own Home Deserves It’. How correct.

Last year I punched a hole – I was backing up the boat at the time – into the garage door. Just had it fixed and there goes $1700. And that dry rot in the outside back door? $800. A week ago we had a wind storm that blew out the fence and I have yet to get an estimate but it ain’t gonna be cheap.

This is my fourth house – I gave one away to an ex-wife hoping it would fall on her.

Each house has had something that cost. This house I stole the living room off the kitchen telling Elly I wanted to build a nice home theater (we had a 42-in. Mitsubishi CRT at the time) and I said I would spread the cost across a few years (failing to tell her that part of that would be the cost of upgrading components to new standards such as HDMI). She said okay but would have final say on furniture. A good trade off.

After 25 years of marriage Elly has seen components come and go and, as far as she’s concerned, it’s replacement of one black box with another. Not that she’s uninterested yet to her if I looks good and sounds good then it is good. It’s the same with me and her buying shoes” I look, I appreciate; I don’t enquire cost.

Of course, if I hit the lottery then 4K here it comes. LG has a nice ultra-definition TV and it’s only $15,000.

MichaelR

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10115 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/6/2013 10:55 PM
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Hmm, made me think, but not much, our first home was back in '68 after I returned from an overseas adventure for Western Electric, managed to finally save up enough for a nice little Young America 1000 sf place... maybe 4 or 5 years later we moved here, been here since, so only the two.. a few rentals before finally buying..

pretty much remodeled every room at least once, all in spare time, weekends, after work... When the kids moved on, I snagged on BR as my office, the rest, DW's control... But the TV's have been a range of CRTs until the current Samsung.. Been nice, sound was better until the receiver started going crazy once in a while.. Loud BUZZZZZZ for 10-20 seconds, then back to normal, disconcerting.. So something is breaking down internal, it's happened from either CATV or DVD sources to the TV, so has to be the receiver.. so a673 will come along..

Looked at wall mounts, look easy, don't need an arm, so kind of a tossup, Costco has a stack... next trip..

Onward!

weco

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10133 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/15/2013 2:15 PM
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OK, as usual, always looking around...

Yesterday had some tires put on DW's car so had a couple hours of wandering the local Costco... So beyond a could rounds outside just to get some miles in, I went around and about inside to harass the verizon sales peeps on if they had the iPhone5, etc.. (No, but fun folks, they learned a bit, I saw they were happy employees, one faithfully taking her sexual harassment course, so I broke up their day a bit...)

So next to them was a couple Yamaha stacks, one a Receiver, HTR-4065, $330, pretty basic, fair value..No sub control jack, tho..

But next to that was a Yamaha ATS-1010, sound bar, and it did have the sub output, control jacks! I had to wait until I came home to delve any deeper, they only had poser, no other connections... It comes with a fiber link, tie that direct to the HDTV (Samsung 46), hook up the sub, and I'm done! Seems like I could do this, skip the receiver completely! I asked myself, why do I need a receiver? We don't use AM/FM, looks like this would maybe be a lot simpler, besides a LOT cheaper! DW is really unhappy with the TV speakers, we tried my old setup receiver, better, but..

The ATS-1010 sets well below the Samsung, looks good, price is right, MSRP $299, Costco $180...

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hometheater-syst...

So maybe a simpler, less amperage solution! Maybe I need one here in my 'office'!

weco

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10134 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/15/2013 3:11 PM
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http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hometheater-syst......

So maybe a simpler, less amperage solution! Maybe I need one here in my 'office'!

weco


It would work especially in a smaller room, if you don’t have a lot of components, and there’s enough connects in the TV itself for whatever components (including cable/satellite) you do have.

The TV then becomes the hub rather than an amp and you have to do some menu switching to bring in a component.

I am a tad wary of soundbars because I have seen them used – dictated by décor – in larger rooms where they’re lost. However, since soundbars are near-field having one in a small room where space is a factor makes sense.

The only TV I’ve owned that I used the internal speakers was the Mitsubishi and that set was designed to have a good internal speaker system (it also had outboard speakers that straddled the set). However, since then and having flat screens not once. I have used my present TV’s speakers once as an experiment and never again. Once again, too small a speaker for too large a room.

I’d go for the soundbar and subwoofer for the main system. Depending on how that works out (and it should) maybe another for the office system.

OT: got the third season of Justified and I spent last night watching episode after episode. Settled back on the sofa, beer in hand, and enjoyed the mayhem until well past midnight. Life is good.

MichaelR

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10135 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/15/2013 5:08 PM
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I’d go for the soundbar and subwoofer for the main system. Depending on how that works out (and it should) maybe another for the office system.

OT: got the third season of Justified and I spent last night watching episode after episode. Settled back on the sofa, beer in hand, and enjoyed the mayhem until well past midnight. Life is good.


That's where I was heading, apparently there's a bit of an amp or two built into the ATS-1010, partly for the internal subs, downfacing, but since I have the larger YST-FSW150 ( http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/speaker-systems/... ) already, that part of the ATS-1010 is shut down. Reviews, altho on the Yamaha site look decent, pricing fair...

Justified is on our list, have to start at the beginning... For now Downton Abbey has our eyes, waiting on Boardwalk Empire to come back... Deadwood was a great series, a tad rough for some, and the language, beyond the nastiness was actually almost Shakesperian... Excelnt crew...

Too many shows, too little time! Scandal, Newsroom, Gray's Anatomy, etc... Maybe a side of Austin Vity Limits tossed in!

Thanks.... weco

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Author: richinaz Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10136 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/15/2013 7:49 PM
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I took a glance at the web site and the first thing that caught my eye was "Glossy black finish".

I'm not sure why devices like this and almost all HDTVs have that shiny, glossy black finish. It is really annoying since it reflects light and serves no useful purpose.

I don't think it is a female thing since my GF (who is as far as possible from being a techy/geeky person) brought up the same issue.

Price wise it seems reasonable.
Rich

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10137 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/16/2013 12:36 AM
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I took a glance at the web site and the first thing that caught my eye was "Glossy black finish".

I'm not sure why devices like this and almost all HDTVs have that shiny, glossy black finish. It is really annoying since it reflects light and serves no useful purpose.

I don't think it is a female thing since my GF (who is as far as possible from being a techy/geeky person) brought up the same issue.

Price wise it seems reasonable.

Rich


No useful purpose but does give the impression of ‘quality’ when not being used. Same reason some speakers come in oak, walnut, and cherry finishes: when not being used they’re ‘fine furniture’. Problem with the finish, Japan Black, is it shows fingerprints (I sometimes wonder if that’s a feature so some effort is put on keeping them ‘fine furniture’).

Also black imparts seriousness. Most amps are available in black or silver but black far outsells silver. Back in the 60-70s silver was in because it looked ‘technical’. Remember some of those, Rich? More dials and knobs than an F-16. Now most amps are black on black, sub controls are behind a black cover and even the indicator lights can be dimmed to zero. Monoliths awaiting a la 2001: a Space Odyssey.

It’s an absolute all speaker grills are unadorned black. No interesting silk-screening on them but plain black mesh. Not uninteresting but ‘serious’.

Elly once said I’d buy any home theater stuff if it were black.

If wecog does buy the soundbar and is affected by glare from it, there’s the old standby of spraying with photographers’ matte finish. It just then won’t give that vibe of ‘fine furniture’.

MichaelR

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10138 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/16/2013 2:32 AM
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I remember when most components were silver! And most speakers were "wood grain" (though I think they were laminated particle board). When the gold Pioneer SX-6 came out, it was just so cool! Yes, I had one (along with the CT-5 cassette deck). In fact, I still have them.

But somehow going to black Yamaha felt like growing up. No longer was it "hip" or "cool". This was not a toy. This was serious equipment.

Presently running a V1900 black. BluRay is black. Studio Monitor speakers are black. Old turntable is silver.
:-)

1poorguy

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10139 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/16/2013 1:37 PM
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Yes, the glossy black is apparently one of Yamaha's specialties, I see it as a dust catcher, maybe not, but I'm off to Costco later today, see how it works out!

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10140 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/16/2013 5:40 PM
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Yes, the glossy black is apparently one of Yamaha's specialties, I see it as a dust catcher, maybe not, but I'm off to Costco later today, see how it works out!

weco


Out of curiosity, what is the cubic volume of your TV room? You have said in the past it’s a smaller room but how small? The soundbar you’re getting could be the perfect answer if it’s a smaller room. Like to hear your feedback if you decide to buy.

MichaelR

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Author: richinaz Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10141 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/16/2013 8:20 PM
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Just for the record I have nothing against the color black. Half of my clothes are black. It is the glossy finish on electronics that bother me due to the reflection.

Of course I have a similar issue with Apple's iMac glossy finish. It is really annoying. The matte finish on my laptop is much easier on my eyes.

I think a sound bar would probably be the best solution in my bedroom. Once I get a number of other housing issues resolved it may happen one day.

Rich

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10142 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/16/2013 8:42 PM
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Out of curiosity, what is the cubic volume of your TV room? You have said in the past it’s a smaller room but how small? The soundbar you’re getting could be the perfect answer if it’s a smaller room. Like to hear your feedback if you decide to buy.


Made me look! 20x14x8 so 2240 cubes! Split about in half by the kitchen counter at the 10 foot mark... I've decided, just haven't made the trip up the road to pick it up... Disadvantage of not getting the RX-V673 along with it is the calibration it would offer with their YPAO setup... But I think for the savings I can manage...

Then I'll have to see if I need one here in the 'office'...

weco

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10143 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/16/2013 11:58 PM
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Out of curiosity, what is the cubic volume of your TV room? You have said in the past it’s a smaller room but how small? The soundbar you’re getting could be the perfect answer if it’s a smaller room. Like to hear your feedback if you decide to buy.

Made me look! 20x14x8 so 2240 cubes! Split about in half by the kitchen counter at the 10 foot mark... I've decided, just haven't made the trip up the road to pick it up... Disadvantage of not getting the RX-V673 along with it is the calibration it would offer with their YPAO setup... But I think for the savings I can manage...

Then I'll have to see if I need one here in the 'office'...

weco


Smaller rooms have a faster reverb than larger and that’s why the Yamaha soundbar would work well in that room since, essentially, it’s a near-field speaker set suitable for smaller spaces. Coupled with the powered sub you’ll have, I believe, good sound.

The kitchen counter makes the reverb time even shorter. I would try an experiment of covering the face of the counter with a blanket to see if this affects the tonality of the soundbar and sub.

Basically you have an area 14x8x10 (1120 cubic feet) and while the area behind the counter adds some capacity my guess is it won’t add that much to the room’s echo characteristics. It’s a tight room – but then again I’ve seen similarly sized editing rooms and they work.

As for the ‘office’, you really really really need a soundbar for your TV there. Get two and be done with it and save an extra trip.

MichaelR

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10144 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/17/2013 3:41 AM
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Sounds good to me! I'm working on the Volume discount, but getting some static from my CFO... Then again if AAPL is up in the morning.... :)

Yes, Family room, small family, normally just the two of us, the TV, DVR, etc... DW likes Operas, so that her prime concern, getting more oomph for those folks...

Road trip tomorrow...

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10146 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/18/2013 3:14 AM
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Michael! SUCCESS!!

Picked one ATS-1010 up this noontime, came home, had lunch before tacking it... Kinda flipped a coin, went with just the one...

Found where the dust bunnies all lived, pulled out the old speakers, wiring, made ready...

Install was a piece of cake, other than figuring out the fiber jack location, and that the little dust door flipped open on it's own.. Work ones had plugs or covers, times change... Moved the Sub's cables over the the soundbar, shut off the TV's speaker... fired it up, got sound, but no sub action... eventually found the one line telling how to enable the external sub, and then, Wow, great sound, the 1010 remote takes over the sub volume as we as itself... Sounds great, weforget the lows are there when you live without a sub... So DW liked it as well, but then she asked about he CD/DVD/BlueRay player...

OK, fire it up, it's still HDMI'd to the TVHDMI3... But I get nothing with a CD, try a movie, nothing, but then I see a flicker, the Samsung BluRay logo comes up, but when I put the disk in, nothing, black screen, some flickers.. Reseated the HDMI cable,no change... OKI have a couple new spares in the garage, the $4 specials from Tech4Less.. Chose a Red one... this way the CATV, AppleTV, and the BluRay are White, Blue, Red, easier to tell who's who... Plug it in, instantly works.. so the old 2nd White cable is seriously bad.. Tried he Mozart CD, fine, Movie, fine, CATV fine...

DW has a learning curve, have to figure out which remote goes with what device..

I tried teaching the Yamaha the Comcast Remote's Up/Down/Power actions, couldn't make it happen, seemed to take, but for now we're OK with using two remotes...

Much cleaner look, great sound, back to wondering it we're keeping the neighbors awake... Nextstep will be to pull the old receiver out, no need for it really...

I will have to see about getting it to work with the Comcast Remote.. as it is I have a little bucket of remotes, be good to park one more...

We have a winner, I had the advantage of the external sub, in here I won't have that... 12x12 room full of bookcases, file cabinet, cabinets, desk, stuff, not sure I need.. But I do have all these other speakers... Or I have a spare harmon-kardon/Apple Soundstick set, might try that.. Or... Heh, there is no end, is there?

I didn't realize you were up in BC! No wonder the Marine business was good to you! 2010 we did Vancouver, camping, then the train up to Whistler for a couple nights, then wander back down the coast Mt St Helens, Rainier, eventually home.. 2005 we did Banff ,Jasper, lots of fun... Lots of great Canadians!

In fact on the way up, back in our GWB days, 2005, as we crossed over, we got to chatting with your border agent, to the point he temporarily held his hand over his shoulder patch, spoke freely about the situation down here... Finally when a dozen cars were backed up behind us, we called it good and off we went..

On the way home as we left, we stopped by a visitor center/museum, chatted a bit at the counter, evidently overheard.. As we left a fellow that had left before us, was out on the highway, turned back and came up next to us in the parking lot, wished us well, and to please come on back to Canada, visit often, just a nice guy, wishing travelers well.. Heartwarming to see... Always a good experience on the Canadian Borders.. Total different on the US side, look at us like criminals, run their little doggies around, in and about, no idle chat, nothing... Surely they know the difference in a problem and a wandering older couple, out camping... Ticks me off.. Solves nothing...

Anyway, there's the story, plus some more, thanks again for all your insights!

weco

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10149 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/18/2013 2:35 PM
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It’s great when something comes together. Plus, and I’ve said this enough times, a good sound system makes a better home theater. When I upgraded the sound side of my system I played some old favorite DVDs and was surprised at what was there all the time but hadn’t accessed before. Bet you your DW will do the same now she can hear other than the TV’s speakers.

Yes, I live in White Rock, BC. Up on the hill overlooking a bay and – Sarah Palin moment – I can see the USA from my house. Came to BC 25 years ago; came to Canada from England 60 years ago. Since I was neither good with head or hands I became a copywriter, then magazine editor and then opened a consulting company that lasted 30 years. Married Elly, a Colorado lady, so I have relatives living in the US.

Now I am an old fart – a pensioner, no less – with too much and not enough time on my hands. My home theater is where I want it and there’s little needed to maintain it. As you point out, wecog, there’s always something but for me it’s more tweaking than large changes. Although, if I do win the lottery, 4K here we come.

MichaelR

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10151 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/18/2013 3:14 PM
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Well, we had a good hint of it when I bought the subwoofer a year or more ago, discovered the hidden menus for the Yamaha Receiver that made i work, BIL has some denon gear, I forget the speakers, but he drops a lot of his OT checks into his setup.. he helped figure out the old setup, but when the receiver messed up, I took it back to the TV speakers... Now, we're back where it should be...

I noted on another thread I have the harmon-kardon Soundsticks on my Mac, but I have another set, one that had hum if connected to the old CRT Samsung, so now I need to try it on the 40" in here... beats even the AST-1010 price! Small room, if it works, maybe the simplest for me..

Setup of the AST-101 wasn't quite as simple as I expected, but doable...Like a lot of manuals, they need some study...

Ahh, well, I'm down a ways in the wine country, Sonoma County of Sonoma, Napa, Mendocino fame, more vines than ever here as the big boys come in... My Western Electric 40 years took me all over Northern Calif, Nevada, South Pacific, Hawaii, company schools all over the country... they figured out I grasped techy details early on, tried to promote me, but I stayed in craft, Field Engineer or Systems Analyst seems to fit what I did... From major power systems to microwave, multiplex, switching, toll, and at the last cellular systems for Verizon, Sprint in this area...

We, wile we have our health, like to travel, but this economy has made us cautious, so dropped back to every other year a major trip.. Last year was Russia, St Petersburg to Moscow on the Viking river cruise.. great trip.. Surprisingly friendly people, country, but with no English on any of the signage, we stuck close by our guides.. Cyrillic alphabet isn't always what it seems, to us!

Kids, grown, grandkids keep us busy, but this year landscaping will be the major effort, with some time off to go camping in the SouthWest, chasing the Anasazi Indian sites, towns, trails...

We've still to do the Inland Passage and on up to Alaska, one day it'll happen. Also Northern Europe, Scandinavia, really need o go chase ancestors... Dad's father was a ship's carpenter, supposedly, jumped ship here in San Francisco, settled here in the mid 1800s... Need to go find out!

Anyway, lots of interests, TMF feeds many... get to 'meet' some great people!

Onward! Weco

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Author: Radish Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10153 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/18/2013 5:57 PM
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wecoguy,

at the last cellular systems for Verizon, Sprint in this area...

Hey, maybe you could answer I question I've been wondering about for some time. (Off topic.) Could one build a device which would pick up the current date and time from some nearby cell tower, without needing to have an account (or SIM card, or anything like that)?

That is, if I knew all the relevant standards and bought, say, an Arduino card with a cell radio, could I program the Arduino to display the current date and time? (Given that I have many years of experience in embedded systems programming.) Or do you have to "log in" somehow before you can get that info?

The NIST time transmission is really hard to pick up in California, and GPS receivers are expensive and don't tell the time zone (at least not without a ton of map data).

Phil

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10154 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/18/2013 7:06 PM
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Ahh, well, I'm down a ways in the wine country, Sonoma County of Sonoma, Napa, Mendocino fame, more vines than ever here as the big boys come in... My Western Electric 40 years took me all over Northern Calif, Nevada, South Pacific, Hawaii, company schools all over the country... they figured out I grasped techy details early on, tried to promote me, but I stayed in craft, Field Engineer or Systems Analyst seems to fit what I did... From major power systems to microwave, multiplex, switching, toll, and at the last cellular systems for Verizon, Sprint in this area...

weco


Well, that explains your handle. Wondered about that. I signed on with MichaelR but, since I do have a writing background, I have thought of changing it to ‘Thepenismighty’ but it didn’t look right.

You ‘office’ is about 1152 cubic feet and with a square shape virtually any near-field speaker would work. Since you have a cable connection I’d go with the Yamaha 1010 so you can have good sound with the new TV you put in. Some of the speakers you have in hand would work if you can have some amplification but I’d get the soundbar.

I have fished many Alaskan rivers and have taken the Inside Passage from Vancouver to Prince Rupert and then the Alaskan Marine Highway several times. Great way to travel and you get to meet many interesting people from all over. I would time my trips to the salmon runs down the Russian and Kenai Rivers and all the way up we could see salmon leaping but I couldn’t get the captain to stop the ship so I could drop a line. Going too fast to troll also,

MichaelR

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10155 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/18/2013 8:45 PM
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OT - Well, my guess, we just made 'em work, not the internals, but my guess is that you'd have to be in the system, every handset has a unique code, in the various company's databases, wrong hardware or NAM, you're ignored, CDMA doesn't use SIM cards, it's all in software, in the case of the handsets, hard coded for every device... Timing, as in T1 timing, is very accurately synchronized Nationwide via very expensive GPS receivers at every site, an interesting study of it's own, but as we power up, it goes to work to pop out the sync, near perfect, then over the next week or so. as it refines the accuracy, until it's happy... It's not there fro Date and time particularly, but no doubt it picks a universal code via that GPS...

Be better to look to WWV or GPS signals than hitch a ride... Even cellular has gaps, they do try to backfill, but I know a couple spots where it's still almost guaranteed it's going to go away... An atomic Casio wristwatch, tap into on of those!

I didn't know what a Arduino card is... http://arduino.cc/en/ - made me look... BUt maybe someone there has an idea...

weco

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10156 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/18/2013 9:02 PM
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Yes, well, way back a decade or more ago, on Yahoo discussion boards, it was handy as we had a Group for us WeCo and Telecom guys, of course it degenerated to a stock shorting or pumping game, yahoo became the Zoo.. A neutral handle helps avoid some crazy's attacks, harassment... Most of us discovered Raging Bull, went there to play, along the way, TMF came along, and more civil boards... RB has gone to un-monitored, messy, so more TMF generally... Actually Facebook is more controllable, local folks, relatives, friends... [So playtime online goes back to BBS systems, dialup to remote servers, then BMUG, other Mac related BBS's... Been a long time!

I've a couple options with existing speaker sets, the Soundsticks being the best, a Roland powered speaker set a ways down the foodchain, but yes, the 1010 would step me up several notches...

Priorities, all these priorities!

We have a local Russian River, Fort Ross http://www.fortross.org just up the coast a ways, the Ruskies did pretty good! Fur and timber trading way back...

Cruise Chef would be glad to cook up the catch!!


Onward...

weco

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Author: Radish Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10157 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/19/2013 12:59 AM
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wecoguy,

Thanks for taking time to answer.

Be better to look to WWV or GPS signals than hitch a ride... Even cellular has gaps, they do try to backfill, but I know a couple spots where it's still almost guaranteed it's going to go away... An atomic Casio wristwatch, tap into on of those!

The problem with WWV (NIST) is that it's very difficult to pick up this far away from Ft. Collins Colorado. Clocks that rely on the NIST transmission (so-called "atomic" clocks) generally work poorly here, if at all. GPS is do-able, indeed there are clocks available that use GPS, but it's expensive and you still have to manually set the time zone (which you wouldn't have to do when picking up cell phone transmissions). In theory you could figure out the time zone from your GPS coordinates, but the map data required to do such a thing is large... not something you want to put into an inexpensive clock.

One could also use existing WiFi hotspots, but that's problematic if they are all set for encryption (if one wants a clock that doesn't require any setup at all). Plus, you'd have to actually send requests for Internet Time info if you use WiFi.

I'm thinking you wouldn't have to transmit to the cell towers, just pick up the transmissions being made to the handsets. That is, whenever a cell tower sends the current time to somebody's cell phone, you pick up that transmission and then you have the correct time (already adjusted for time zone). But I don't know how often cell towers send the time, or in what format, or if it's encrypted, and so forth.

Phil

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10158 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/19/2013 3:32 AM
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I think they're all encrypted, there were claims the GSM signals were deeper, but from what I know of CDMA, they are definitely encrypted.. In fact the message or data is a pretty low level signal, down in the weeds we used to say.. If you looked on a spectrum analyzer, you couldn't pick the data packets out of the background noise... and they are all pseudo-randomly mixed as well... The old AMPS was an analog game, open to eavesdropping, pickoff, but I think that's long gone now..

Yes, receive only, they wouldn't respond to any input anyway..

I have a solar Casio 'Atomic" G-Shock watch, tells me to leave it near a window once in a while, no idea where it's picking up it's info...

Another a desk/wall clock, day, date, temp, humidity called SkyScan Atomic Clock says the same thing, leave it near a window, it syncs up, again, no idea where it's really picking it up...

Likely some sort of GPS receiver, so many cells use it, maybe there's some cheap chips out there...

have fun..

weco

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Author: Draggon Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10159 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/19/2013 12:22 PM
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thought of changing it to ‘Thepenismighty’ but it didn’t look right.

Oh, Michael.... :D

No, that doesn't look right - at least not for a general audience message board.

Draggon

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10160 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/19/2013 5:30 PM
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weco:

Everything you wanted to know about ‘atomic’ clocks http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwvb.cfm

MichaelR

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10161 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/19/2013 6:18 PM
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Michael, thanks, but.. I'm still recalling the old WWV from my earlier Halicrafters S-10 shortwave receiver! I knew he info was out there, but no real need for myself...

Well, I tried out my harmon-karon Soundsticks on the 40" Samsung... It is a good improvement in that a lot more bass, but, no real control, remotely, so once set, that's it without having to get up, go over there and crank it down.. So to answer a phone, not really useful. The TV's Mute is out of the picture as is it's volume control...

So, nevermind all that, I packed it and the old bookshelf speakers from the family room away, took the Soundsticks back to the garage, too..

So Father's Day is coming, maybe a 1010 at that point, I still want to set down and fiddle, see if I can teach it the Comcast remote... It just never took, blinks seemed right, but..

(I still have the S-10 Halicrafters in the garage... needed a tube last time I tried it...

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10162 of 10516
Subject: Re: Speakers Date: 1/20/2013 2:27 AM
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thought of changing it to ‘Thepenismighty’ but it didn’t look right.

Oh, Michael.... :D

No, that doesn't look right - at least not for a general audience message board.

Draggon


I know. That’s why I chose not to use it. However, following the writing theme I also had ‘Hardonsyntax’ as an alternative but, on consideration of the delicacies of such as the young lads as weco and 1poorguy, I refrained.

So I remained MichaelR. Incidentally, MichaelR is Sanskrit for ************. Don’t let that out, please.

MichaelR

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