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Author: andjj Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 11665  
Subject: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 10:39 AM
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I originally posted this over at Buying and Maintaining, because that seems to be a more frequented board. I have quickly realized that those people are not interested in performance and driving as much as they are interested in being a bunch of wet blankets.

*************

I have been driving a pretty mundane Jetta and when I get on the highway and decide to go faster than the speed limit, its a conscious decision and it's easy to keep track of how fast I'm going. I am about to upgrade to a considerably faster, more powerful, and better handling car and am certain that I will find myself flying down the highway at the speed limit +20 without even really noticing it. I'd obviously like to avoid tickets so, without getting into a philosophical discussion about the moral repercussions of exceeding the posted speed limit, does anyone have any anecdotal comments on radar/laser detectors, laser jammers, and any other police technology defeating devices? I'm just about sold on an Escort 8500 X50. I'm contemplating a can of Veil stealth coating (for headlights and front plate). And, while I think it's kind of drastic, a Blinder X-20 is something I might consider in the future.

Also, I've heard that there are websites that post info on speed traps in various areas. Any links?
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Author: SRHCB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6652 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 10:44 AM
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Sorry, it ain't gonna work here either.

Same posters.

SB

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Author: andjj Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6653 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 11:07 AM
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Then maybe the name of the board should be Old Cars and Boring Drivers. Or Boring Cars and Old Drivers.

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Author: TMFTwitty Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6654 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 11:35 AM
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Then maybe the name of the board should be Old Cars and Boring Drivers. Or Boring Cars and Old Drivers.


andjj,

No need to insult people just because you didn't get the answers you wanted. Most of the people who frequent this board can outdrive most anyone I know, on the road or racecourse. We have an appreciation for skilled driving and capable machines. What we don't have is a passion for gimmicks to avoid speed traps when capable driving works better.

Richard

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Author: andjj Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6655 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 11:55 AM
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No need to insult people just because you didn't get the answers you wanted. Most of the people who frequent this board can outdrive most anyone I know, on the road or racecourse. We have an appreciation for skilled driving and capable machines. What we don't have is a passion for gimmicks to avoid speed traps when capable driving works better.

Capable driving does nothing to protect you from the cop on a mission hiding in the bushes. No offense was intended. I have nothing against folks who want to drive the speed limit, as long as they can bring themselves to observe good driving etiquette. But when I ask about ways to avoid tickets while speeding, I don't want to hear a bunch of pontificating from those who obviously weren't the targeted audience.



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Author: WotPeed Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6656 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 12:08 PM
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My experience with radar detectors from years ago was pretty disappointing in urban areas (where I do 99% of my driving). Too many false alarms, but there were some areas that gave consistent false alarms so I was able to ignore those. I do think there was one time that the radar detector did its trick and warned me of a speed trap with enough advance warning to slow down.

This is going back 10 years ago or more so I'm sure the technology has changed quite a bit. I don't know which it's helped more, the cops or the robbers. I've never tried a laser detector.

Make sure you know whether the items you're considering purchasing are legal in your state. I know radar detectors are not in several states, the other items I have no idea.

Wot

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Author: gixxerboy Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6657 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 12:13 PM
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Richard has it right. Capable driving works far better than lollygaging behind the wheel relying only on the gimmics to avoid tickets. (this works for avoiding accidents and such too... but I guess I'm preaching to the choir ;-)

Travel at the speed of traffic flow (generally above the posted limit), use "rabbits" when you can and only exceed the limit when you want to have fun but pick your location and don't be stoopid.

Using these techniques and keeping an eye out for obvious traps has resulted in my getting 1 ticket in over a decade of riding a motorcycle that's considerably faster than 99% of the cars on the road ;-)

Chris (who had to reference his bike as he's unfortunately never owned a particularly fast car)

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Author: andjj Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6658 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 12:24 PM
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Capable driving works far better than lollygaging behind the wheel relying only on the gimmics to avoid tickets.

I'll agree with that. I would never rely solely on a detector to avoid tickets. But modern fighter pilots don't just use their eyeballs for identifying threats, so why should a driver with a heavy foot? If the technology is available, I'm all for employing it. A $250 investment that saves one ticket has already paid for itself in avoided fines and increased insurance rates.

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Author: 6SpeedFool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6660 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 1:14 PM
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I used to use detectors, just x- and k-band then, but noting can defeat a well-placed trooper who flips the switch on and off for specific approaching cars.

Generally, I'm happy to blend in with the 80% percentile. On the rare occasion I really gotta go, I try to find some idiot with a heavy foot and a death wish (usually in a Grand Am or Neon) and tuck in about a half mile behind them; letting them run blocker for me.

I am Jerry Reed in the Kenworth. Let someone else be Burt and Sally in the FireChicken.

6Spd

PS-No one ticketed in a "speed trap" wasn't speeding.

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Author: Milligram46 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6661 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 2:15 PM
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What Richard said. My advice is slow down and if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. All the laser, radar, jammer, scanner, knowing where they sit information won't replace following reasonably within the rules, not drawing attention to yourself, and being observant. You could have all the laser, radar, jammer, scanner, knowledge you want, roll by an unmarked unit in the right lane going 55 MPH or get spied by an aircraft, and you are BONED.

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Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6662 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 2:59 PM
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Just plan on higher insurance rates, a few days sitting in Traffic School, and getting to know the Instructor... Art Krebs, I knew Art so very well, an ex-CHP that had worked the remote coastal areas, had a ton of tales to tell, crew-cut, ex-Marine kinda guy that demanded and got everyone's attention.. He finally fully retired, but old Art did a great job of at least trying to pound in our heads that speeding just isn't worth the hassle.. Oh, I still get over the top, but no amount of detectors will make any real difference, just time, maturity, and being willing to pay the price.

weco

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6663 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 3:16 PM
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Just plan on higher insurance rates, a few days sitting in Traffic School, and getting to know the Instructor... Art Krebs, I knew Art so very well, an ex-CHP that had worked the remote coastal areas, had a ton of tales to tell, crew-cut, ex-Marine kinda guy that demanded and got everyone's attention.. He finally fully retired, but old Art did a great job of at least trying to pound in our heads that speeding just isn't worth the hassle.. Oh, I still get over the top, but no amount of detectors will make any real difference, just time, maturity, and being willing to pay the price.


one of the things i 'learned' in traffic school -- most of the time you're busted for
speeding, what you did Wrong was not pay enough attention.


=

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Author: andjj Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6664 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 3:56 PM
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All the laser, radar, jammer, scanner, knowing where they sit information won't replace following reasonably within the rules, not drawing attention to yourself, and being observant. You could have all the laser, radar, jammer, scanner, knowledge you want, roll by an unmarked unit in the right lane going 55 MPH or get spied by an aircraft, and you are BONED.

True enough about unmarked cars and aircraft. But all that other nifty technology will help to mitigate the risk of getting a ticket. There are rules and there are rules. Following all of them blindly doesn't sound like it'd make for a very interesting existence.

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Author: Fireballs Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6665 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 4:12 PM
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I originally posted this over at Buying and Maintaining

You might also try the Road Rage board for a decidedly non-wet-blanket viewpoint.

In my experience, not having a detector has saved me more than having one. The authorities rightly assume that if you have invested in avoidance devices, you deserve whatever they can charge you with.

The real goal is to either avoid being written up or minimize the speed number written on the ticket. Neither of those will ever happen if anything is suction cupped to your windshield, but both have happened to me since I gave up on detectors. Even a totally hidden detector will get you a full price speeding ticket because they watch for your brake lights or coasting down immediately after zapping you.

Your behavior before and during the stop will have a lot to do with the end result. Being courteous and apologetic results in either a warning or a reduction of the speed written on the ticket.

I am about to upgrade to a considerably faster, more powerful, and better handling car

Having driven red Corvettes and Camaros for a couple of decades, I found them not to be the ticket magnets that everyone assumes. However, some degree of visual stealth is probably beneficial such as a background paint color rather than something vivid. Even better, drive so as not to be seen (insert Monty Python explosion here). Change lanes slowly, wait for a comfortable gap to open before changing lanes, and wait until you break free from the pack to open it up.

websites that post info on speed traps

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=speed+trap

Neil

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Author: andjj Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6666 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 4:32 PM
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The real goal is to either avoid being written up or minimize the speed number written on the ticket. Neither of those will ever happen if anything is suction cupped to your windshield, but both have happened to me since I gave up on detectors. Even a totally hidden detector will get you a full price speeding ticket because they watch for your brake lights or coasting down immediately after zapping you.

Good advice. The last time I was ticketed, maybe 15 years ago (knock on wood), the cop saw the detector and said, "those things don't work." I believe I exercised supreme good judgment by not replying, "It worked just fine, but I thought it was a false alarm." Concerning the thing about them seeing you hit your brakes, I've been told by a state trooper that they will pull you over because you see them but don't hit the brakes, like you're fluanting the fact that you're speeding.

Change lanes slowly, wait for a comfortable gap to open before changing lanes, and wait until you break free from the pack to open it up.

Concur. A lot of people seem to think that if you drive fast you also drive like a jackass. They aren't mutually inclusive.

Thanks for the website.

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Author: SirYoda Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6667 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 4:46 PM
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I have nothing against folks who want to drive the speed limit, as long as they can bring themselves to observe good driving etiquette.
---------------------------

How very big of you!

Yoda

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Author: SirYoda Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6668 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 4:55 PM
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There are rules and there are rules. Following all of them blindly doesn't sound like it'd make for a very interesting existence.

---------------------

Nobody is advocating following rules blindly. The best followed rules are those you fully understand and agree with. And the chances of agreeing with a particular rule are greatly increased with education and comprehension; not "blind" obedience.

I guess part of maturity is understsanding the whys and wherefores of a particular rule. Understanding the rule also helps you understand where and when it might be appropriate to "bend" it. I'd argue that "blindly" ignoring a rule is the most dangerous type of behavior.

Yoda


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Author: andjj Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6669 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 5:20 PM
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I have nothing against folks who want to drive the speed limit, as long as they can bring themselves to observe good driving etiquette.
---------------------------

How very big of you!

Yoda


I would hope (probably in vain) for good driving etiquette whether the person is going at, above, or below the speed limit. If people were a little more courteous, the roads, and the world in general, would be a better place.

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Author: andjj Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6670 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 5:40 PM
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I guess part of maturity is understsanding the whys and wherefores of a particular rule. Understanding the rule also helps you understand where and when it might be appropriate to "bend" it.

Since I read a lot of your posts and generally respect what you have to say, I'm not going to jump to conclusions and think you're taking a shot at me with that "maturity" remark. That said, from what I've read on the subject, speed limits generally were set at 70+ mph prior to 1973. The energy crisis changed all that, with the federal goverment strongarming state governments into setting limits at 55. When federal restrictions were lifted (1995?), most states upped their limits. Montana did away with them altogether during daylight hours, making their highways similar to the German Autobahn. Although political pressure forced them to reiinstate limits somewhere around 2000, many in Montana maintained that the absence of a limit actually made driving safer (fatalities almost doubled the year following reinstatement of limits). Of course you'll find arguments on both sides of that issue. Cars in the 60's and 70's were not nearly as advanced in performance and safety as they are today, so if safety is the argument, then why are speed limits the same as they were then?

So you see, I do know the why and wherefore of this particular rule, and it has much to do with arbitrary political b.s. I do not blindly ignore rules, much the same as I do not blindly follow them.

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Author: Primm69 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6672 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/26/2005 7:29 PM
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The real goal is to either avoid being written up or minimize the speed number written on the ticket.

Hehehe. Back in the 80's I drove a red Cordia Turbo. The best way I found to get out of a speeding ticket was to release my pony tail and undo a shirt button as the cop was approaching my car.

Apparently a blonde in a little red sports car is allowed to go faster!

Primm
*not that I'd do anything like that now, of course!*

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Author: TMFTwitty Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6673 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 8/29/2005 10:04 AM
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Concerning the thing about them seeing you hit your brakes, I've been told by a state trooper that they will pull you over because you see them but don't hit the brakes, like you're fluanting the fact that you're speeding.

If he can see you, but you can't see him, it's assumed you have a detection device and you may be stopped. If you can see him and brake hard enough to be a person of interest to those behind you or enter a panic stop envelope, you may be stopped. If you brake moderately and continue to do so until you reach the speed limit, you are acknowledging his authority, the fact that you are aware you were speeding, and promise to never do it again, or at least not do it until you are safely past him. If you were +15 or lower, there's a good chance you can get away with it, especially if you aren't alone.

Cops are all about observation, and they can get a fair picture of what you are about in just a few seconds. Rookies and disgruntled cops are often strictly by the book, but are usually the exception.

Richard

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Author: bige1030 Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6749 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 10/7/2005 11:54 PM
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If you do get caught, and you value your insurance premiums being low for the next 3-5 years, you could always fight the ticket with a good lawyer. Maybe the cop did something that's not kosher just to meet his quota...

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Author: LLRinCO Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6750 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 10/8/2005 5:46 AM
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Since when do cops have quotas??


Linda

police dispatcher since 1990

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Author: agerdx5 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6751 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 10/8/2005 6:57 PM
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<<Since when do cops have quotas??>>

For one: the guy (a friend) I talked to last weekend--one ticket book per shift. (in WA)


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Author: LLRinCO Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6752 of 11665
Subject: Re: Speed Trap Avoidance Date: 10/9/2005 2:59 AM
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I am glad they don't do that in Colorado.

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