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Author: culcha Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 19021  
Subject: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/19/2013 9:06 AM
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In planning for retirement I have been counting on (estimated) social security payments and (estimated) pension payments, and just adding the two of them together, thinking that it would all be income. But just recently I seem to to have heard or read somewhere that the SS payment is REDUCED in cases in which a pension is received. I already figured that the pension amount would make more of the SS amount taxable, but I never thought the SS payments would be reduced.

Is this true?

culcha
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Author: Brooklyn1948 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18772 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/19/2013 9:33 AM
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. But just recently I seem to to have heard or read somewhere that the SS payment is REDUCED in cases in which a pension is received.


_____________________________________________

My husband is getting a small pension from one of the companies that he worked for and his SS payments were not reduced at all.
You should call SS. If you call them early in the morning you will get someone on the phone without much of a wait.
They were extremely helpful in giving us information as we found it a bit confusing at first.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18774 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/19/2013 10:05 AM
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culcha:"In planning for retirement I have been counting on (estimated) social security payments and (estimated) pension payments, and just adding the two of them together, thinking that it would all be income. But just recently I seem to to have heard or read somewhere that the SS payment is REDUCED in cases in which a pension is received. I already figured that the pension amount would make more of the SS amount taxable, but I never thought the SS payments would be reduced. "

As long as your pension is from a private employer or state .....NO....

There are some deals like Veterans benefits/pensions or other government agencies where you didn't contribute the full amount to SS....or if your employer was exempt from SS (like the military and their pension system).....


If you paid into SS...you get your SS.....based upon the number of years and amount you made each year...up to 35 years.....


t.

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Author: billjam Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18775 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/19/2013 11:17 AM
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In Illinois social security is limited for those in the teachers's retirement system. That was a trade-off for the generous teachers' pensions. I believe the maximum SS benefit is 40% of what it would have been otherwise. But, as was already posted, no private company pension reduces SS.

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Author: TMFPixy Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18777 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/19/2013 11:46 AM
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Culcha ssks:

In planning for retirement I have been counting on (estimated) social security payments and (estimated) pension payments, and just adding the two of them together, thinking that it would all be income. But just recently I seem to to have heard or read somewhere that the SS payment is REDUCED in cases in which a pension is received. I already figured that the pension amount would make more of the SS amount taxable, but I never thought the SS payments would be reduced.

Is this true?


Possibly so, possibly not. It depends on your pension plan documents. Some are written to reduce their payments when social security benefits begin to be paid. You need to check with your pension plan administrator to see if your plan is one that does. Most do not, but a substantial minority do.

And BTW, the SSA would have absolutely no idea whether your plan is one that reduces benefits or not when you begin to receive your Social Security benefit.

Hope that helps.

Regards ... Pixy

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18780 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/19/2013 2:42 PM
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Some company pension plans have a "Social Security Offset" on the theory that the company was paying FICA, too.

If your company does this, it actually helps high salary workers, since there is no FICA above about $133,000/year. You'll get a higher pension credit on earnings above the FICA limit.

intercst

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18781 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/19/2013 2:46 PM
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Typo,

since there is no FICA above about $133,000/year.

That should be about $113,000/year.

intercst

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Author: mendomann Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18782 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/19/2013 3:05 PM
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Check this link for more information:

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/resource_center/expert_i...

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18783 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/19/2013 10:14 PM
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In planning for retirement I have been counting on (estimated) social security payments and (estimated) pension payments, and just adding the two of them together, thinking that it would all be income. But just recently I seem to to have heard or read somewhere that the SS payment is REDUCED in cases in which a pension is received. I already figured that the pension amount would make more of the SS amount taxable, but I never thought the SS payments would be reduced.

Is this true?

culcha


----------------

What you may have been hearing is that above a certain income limit, a portion of your SS becomes taxable. Since a pension on top of other taxable income could push you over that limit, a pension could effectively reduce your "spendable" SS after taxes.

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Author: malaoshi Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18784 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/20/2013 12:34 AM
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"Is this true?" Culcha

Yes for me. I get a small pension..I taught in a public school system 15 years but not what they deemed as full time.
When SS realized I was getting that little pension, they cut down my SS payments, and make me report the COlA raise I get each year ( a mere $10 a month more, can you believe it!) :( $120 per annum more and I had to tell them every penny.

Fortunately not only is my husband still working, but he also has two pensions from two corporations which have kicked in, and his own social security.

We are managing, and can treat ourselves to Wednesday date nights, cruises, and still give to charity..but we are not rich. We gave our kids their first degrees in good schools, as that was our priority, and told them to finance all their post grad degrees themselves.

I retired to help a daughter with a bad pregnancy, but not because I wanted to retire. (I didn't)
Former colleagues and local corporations still pass on the occasional tutoring job to me. I love the work but it doesn't add greatly to income. It is pocket money.

I doubt I'll see DH retire soon. He has managed to work with his clients even while he was in bed for months in casts, and now with Skype, or my "taxi driving" to offices. He is a man of many interests, he sings in a high level choir, does Board work, loves bridge, puzzles, theaters, chasing Michelin restaurants,traveling, discussion groups, volunteering....but his work is his favorite challenge and he loves the people.

We are both in our 70s. But although we HAVE to take the minimum distribution requirement from our IRAs we don't "need" it yet.

Medicare and Anthem Blue Cross have been pretty good to us.

However, we just gave a large lump sum to DD1 and SIL to enable them to move out of their tiny starter home to a fixer upper in a better school district.

We are also busy looking into retirement facilities with the future possibility of skilled nursing and Alzheimer's care so that our girls won't ever need to worry about us. The closest one to our area offers a two bedroom apt. for %900,000 (you have to buy) and then nearly $6000 a month on top of that!Plus your own insurance and bills.. That's when you feel you have not saved enough. Fewer date nights and cruises if we ever bought there. We have to check out others.

Culcha, do you plan to stay where you are when you retire? Have you got a good group of friends to do things together that don't involve lots of money? Are you calculating on expenses of roughly 90% of your present living expenses? According to Schwab that ls about the truth...not much less than before you retired.If you can trust Medicare and your drug plan then don't worry too much. Retirement will be fun, and having a slow cup of coffee while you watch the day begin, without the worry od hurrying to work..... is wonderful.

Apologies for babbling on...

Maryanne

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Author: Brooklyn1948 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18785 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/20/2013 7:02 AM
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We are managing, and can treat ourselves to Wednesday date nights, cruises, and still give to charity..but we are not rich.

__________________________________

I beg to differ. You are rich. For me and my husband being rich means living close to our daughter and grandkids. Being rich means that although my husband lost three jobs starting at the age of 51, we have managed to do OK. Being rich means having a roof over our heads and food on the table because after layoff#1 we had to sell our house to raise cash as we had none left.
We also educated our children and paid for their undergraduate educations. They are doing well and we no longer have to worry about them.
Give them a big down payment for a house, never going to happen. I educated them so that they could do that for themselves.
Malaoshi, you and your husband are doing quite well financially and otherwise. You enjoy life and you appear to be happy.
You are rich!

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Author: malaoshi Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18786 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/20/2013 1:07 PM
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Thanks Brooklyn!

Of course I know, and relish, the fact we are so lucky, and can still laugh every day with any member of the family....!!!! (Well, maybe not always one SIL)

In REAL terms we are indeed rich. I was merely thinking in financial terms because Culcha's question was about "how do you manage..." and so I meant in purely "what's in the bank" terms we are not rich. Many of our friends have several million set aside, no problems. It always amazes us that they can/would mention that "en passant" as talk of money and religion was such a no no when I grew up.

Now I have to go and tell DH you reminded me we ARE rich. He's going to thank you.

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Author: Brooklyn1948 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18787 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/20/2013 3:46 PM
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Many of our friends have several million set aside, no problems. It always amazes us that they can/would mention that "en passant" as talk of money and religion was such a no no when I grew up.


__________________________________

I know a few millionaires too and they never stop whining about how little money they have. The urge to say to them "if I had YOUR money I'd throw mine away" is getting harder and harder to put a lid on.
I agree with you that growing up no one mentioned money, politics or religion.
I still don't mention those things because everyone, including my grown children, have different views about all three and they think they are smarter than both my husband and I.
I have news for them!!!!!
If you get my jist!

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Author: CountNoCount Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18788 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/20/2013 4:14 PM
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Broolkin1948: I beg to differ. You are rich. For me and my husband being rich means living close to our daughter and grandkids. Being rich means that although my husband lost three jobs starting at the age of 51, we have managed to do OK.

I found myself unemployed at 55 (a victim of Reagan's "Peace Dividend".) Unemployed and far, far from ready to retire. I sent out resumes, and got back form rejection letters again and again. By then I was adept enough at computers to tailor a resume and letter of application to recite back the words in the advertisement. No use.

I helped my wife with her small window covering business, but between us we didn't equal my salary as an engineer. We had started the business in the hope of actually making a good living, but that never came to pass. Part of it was that neither of us knew how to sell. We bought books, and most importantly, discovered Zig Ziglar's sales training cassettes. We bought every one we could find. Listened to them is the car as we drove to appointments. It worked! Whether he was a great trainer, or we simply learned how to sell, the effect was the same. We got other sales training tapes, notably Brian Tracy. We took the Dale Carnegie sales course. Then we found the "How to be a better person" variant of the Ziglar series, and the Brian Tracy. The net effect was that we changed ourselves, for the better (I like to think.)

After a year I got a chance to work as a job shopper, and I jumped at it. I swore I would never again be unemployed and essentially broke.

We started to become prodigious savers. 25% a year. We set a goal to accumulate $1 million in the next five years, starting with about a tenth of that. Well, that is a scary goal, so I broke it down by years. I made signs to put on my bathroom mirror with the current goals, stated as an affirmative: "I have $200,00." I repeated it out loud.

We did well. In five years we had almost the one mil. Come the Tech Wreck in 2000, we leveled out - not down (We invested in conservative mutual funds - all with American Funds. We were too naive even to buy Vanguard's funds.) The good news is we had no tech stocks to speak of.

During that time, jobs came and went, but we stayed the course- frugal and saving. I was able to really retire in 2005. I still help my wife in her business, but we could stop at any time if we wanted to.

I heartily advise a course in goal setting to anyone. Should be taught in every high school.

CNC

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Author: Brooklyn1948 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18789 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/20/2013 4:33 PM
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During that time, jobs came and went, but we stayed the course- frugal and saving. I was able to really retire in 2005. I still help my wife in her business, but we could stop at any time if we wanted to.


_____________________________

CNC,
Yours is a true success story!
Congratulations to you and your wife.
You took a risk and it paid off.

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Author: CountNoCount Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18790 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/20/2013 4:58 PM
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Congratulations to you and your wife.
You took a risk and it paid off.


Technically, we didn't take a risk. It walked up and smacked us in the face.

8^)

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Author: billjam Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18792 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/21/2013 10:30 AM
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I know a few millionaires too and they never stop whining about how little money they have. The urge to say to them "if I had YOUR money I'd throw mine away" is getting harder and harder to put a lid on.
I agree with you that growing up no one mentioned money, politics or religion.


I know people like too but the truly rich never talk about how much they have. I'm not rich but I'm pretty well off thanks to decades of good investing and not spending every dime I made plus whatever I could borrow as many were doing. Never told anyone how much I was worth and I still won't, but I think they got the idea when I retired at 54 and haven't worked since.

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Author: CountNoCount Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18793 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/21/2013 11:34 AM
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I know people like too but the truly rich never talk about how much they have. I'm not rich but I'm pretty well off thanks to decades of good investing and not spending every dime I made plus whatever I could borrow as many were doing. Never told anyone how much I was worth and I still won't, but I think they got the idea when I retired at 54 and haven't worked since.

In today's world, 1 million isn't necessarily "rich". It could be called upper middle class, if anything. 1 million is today's $100,000 back in the 50's.

CNC

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18794 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/21/2013 11:50 AM
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"I know a few millionaires too and they never stop whining about how little money they have."


Oh..the wealth envy card.......

Yes, some folks who make $200,000 or $300,000 a year as a single or family who 'only' have a million in retirement savings are hurting if they plan to retire and have s similar lifestyle. So? And, who knows....they may have a million in the stock market and owe a million on loans and other debts.

A million isn't all that much to a high earner(s) group of people.

It's no different than a 50K earner complaining 'he can't save for retirement'......and only has $150K or 200K saved for retirement....

I know at least six millionaires and NONE of them complain about how little they have. Some of them are busy making another couple million to add to their stash. Some are just kicking back.


-----------




" The urge to say to them "if I had YOUR money I'd throw mine away" is getting harder and harder to put a lid on."

It's all relative.

A half million is a 'fortune' to a $25K/yr earner.

A million is 'just the start' to a $350K/yr income person.

And I don't hear a lot of them whining either...low or high income earner....other than 'not having enough' for retirement.

=---------

"I agree with you that growing up no one mentioned money, politics or religion."

a) there was no 'stock market' that was easy to access in the 50s, 60s, and even 70s. No mutual funds you could buy on line. No discount borkers. You paid full freight. Many only bought stock through company plans. there were no IRAs or 401k plans to discuss. folks bought savings bonds.

I'm sure 'higher income' folks talked about savings and money and investing. it just wasn't a 'middle class' activity in the 40s and 50s and 60s.

Most people didn't have spare income. Times were tougher. Food took a bigger percentage of your income. So did everything else other than taxes. Cars lasted five years and crapped out. TV sets required constant fixing.

Religion? Heck the religious loonies were around then. Jonestown.....the Moral Mental Midget Majority....You just didn't have
the internet to discuss them.

politics? Gimme a break.....but most families were either reds or blues. And voted that way forever. No need for families to 'discuss'......and no big media....but dirty political campaigns have been around for a thousand years with folks slinging mud.....

I remember the elections of the 60s and 70s......and the nastiness of them. No difference other than today you have the Commie News Network, the All Barack Channel, the National Barack Channel, the Public Barack Channel, National Puke Radio, MS-LSD, the NY Slimes and others so blatantly lib - journalism died. So did TV reporting.....not long after the 1990s with Bush and the 'typewritten memo' and other crap.

Well, that's my 2c.


t.

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Author: Brooklyn1948 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18795 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/21/2013 2:19 PM
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In today's world, 1 million isn't necessarily "rich". It could be called upper middle class, if anything. 1 million is today's $100,000 back in the 50's

____________________________________________

Well, my husband and I retired with far less than one million dollars and we are doing very well and consider ourselves very lucky due to the fact that my husband had three layoffs starting at the age of 51 years old. My husband was hired at the age of 58 which seemed to be a miracle since bankers were being laid off left and right at that age. But, he took a big cut in salary because he needed a job. Long story short, he quit his job early this year because of the long hours and the stressful environment. He could have lasted a few more months because they were moving their back office operations to another state. He simply could not do another day but he was very grateful that his company gave him the opportunity to work and recoup some of our financial losses. We realized that his job was merely paying for us to live in a very expensive cooperative apartment in Brooklyn Heights. Everything in the city was expensive. So, we decided to move closer to one of our children. We saved $2200 a month on our mortgage and we now have a tiny little 300 year old house in one of the best towns on the coast of New England. Food here is much much cheaper. We can still take the train to Boston to see plays, compliments of my adult children who provided us with season tickets.
We live as well as we used to on far less money. More than that, we are close to family and that makes all the difference. Oh, and we are very close to the ocean. No comparision to being just one block from the East River. The smell of the ocean is delightful!

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Author: Brooklyn1948 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18796 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/21/2013 2:27 PM
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Oh..the wealth envy card.......


________________________________________________________

No wealth envy card here! The millionaires I speak of were blue collar workers whose pensions were over one million when they retired.
The richest people in my coop apartment building in Brooklyn Heights were retired school teachers. Go figure.
They all had job security and could not be fired unlike people who worked in financial services who were being laid off by the tens of thousands.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18797 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/21/2013 4:58 PM
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"No wealth envy card here! The millionaires I speak of were blue collar workers whose pensions were over one million when they retired."


You meant the cash value or cash equivalent.....they only get that if they live long enough...

-------

"The richest people in my coop apartment building in Brooklyn Heights were retired school teachers. Go figure."

Not hard to figure. The public sector unions have succeeded in lining their pockets at the expense of taxpayers. That's why it is so expensive to live in NYC. You're paying very fat pensions to garbage collectors at $70,000 a year in pension, to teachers with the same income likely or MORE plus health care.....heck a pair of teachers (him and her) could be raking in 150K a year ......

It's union power run amok. Yep, and you can't fire the incompetent ones either...they go to the 'rubber room' and sit around all day doing nothing and collecting a salary, seniority increases and longevity increase and increasing pension benefits.

That's the sad state of education in the US.....run by, for, and of the teachers unions...


-----



"They all had job security and could not be fired unlike people who worked in financial services who were being laid off by the tens of thousands. "


Yep, the could have been the best Latin teachers around, when no one takes Latin any more.....but still there.....or the did their math on a tabulating machine, or Babbage Engine.....and that's the extent of their science /math knowledge...slide rules and logarithms. .....

Plus the work rules make it impossible to improve anything......

there's likely 1 teaching assistant now per teacher too...bloat overhead.....

Plus 47 types of 'special ed' ......at premium prices, too...

It's disgusting.

t.

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18819 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/23/2013 10:31 AM
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culcha:

One major reply, as has been said:

You should call SS!

NEVER depend on comments on a bulletin board when it comes to things like this.

Get the FACTS from the horse's mouth.

Vermonter

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18838 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/24/2013 4:00 PM
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Like the man sez, don't take my word for it, but IIRC you, like my husband, will be getting a pension as an employee of the state of South Carolina. If so, it has nothing to do with SS and your state pension will not be decremented in any way based on your SS income. Perhaps you've noticed, however, that as of this year, COLAs are now and firever more capped at 1% per annum. Unkess and until the state leg changes the regs again.

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Author: culcha Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18841 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/24/2013 7:15 PM
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Like the man sez, don't take my word for it, but IIRC you, like my husband, will be getting a pension as an employee of the state of South Carolina. If so, it has nothing to do with SS and your state pension will not be decremented in any way based on your SS income. Perhaps you've noticed, however, that as of this year, COLAs are now and forever more capped at 1% per annum. Unless and until the state leg changes the regs again.

Thanks for responding -- yes, you remembered correctly. I've talked with the HR people here, and with some former colleagues who are already retired, and nobody ever said anything about it, but I think I'll get in touch with SS Admin just to settle my mind. (I certainly don't need another rude surprise at this point in my life.)

culcha

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18842 of 19021
Subject: Re: SS + Pension = ? Date: 11/24/2013 9:56 PM
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I'll get in touch with SS Admin just to settle my mind. (I certainly don't need another rude surprise at this point in my life.)

In an effort to stave off your parenthetical when you call SSA, may I offer a few tips?

1. The SS rep knows nothing about how your state pension is calculated. Don't bring it up.

2. I've only half followed this thread, but I know the interplay between SS and some state pensions has been mentioned. They key is whether you paid into SS during your tenure with the state. If you didn't, we move on to whether you had 30 years of "substantial" SS earnings. The SS phone rep should be able to access the info as you speak, but just in case, be prepared to answer those questions.

Phil
Rule Your Retirement Home Fool

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